Root Access

Journeyman Geek

00:01

could be startssl

Canadian Luke

That's it!

Ramhound

letsencrypt is the new proj thu

Journeyman Geek

letsencrypt is also properly signed, and browsers should accept it.

Ramhound

yes

all

actually

well all worth a damn

Canadian Luke

Lol

Just spun up a server at Digital Ocean. Using the 10 dollar free trial to start, then I'll fund the account once I get the site up and running

Psycogeek

00:41

@CanadianLuke what is the site going to be ?

Canadian Luke

01:03

Bcmainland.ca

It's gonna be for the cadet program I'm part of

Recycle Bin

01:31

hi

Journeyman Geek

nice

I'm PRETTY sure mu desk has a pronounced bow

Psycogeek

dont they all? when i had 19inch crts mine bowed, but even with the lightweight lcds it is still sagging. Although there is a 200lb pure oak desk here that never bows. Problem is i cant even move the thing.

Journeyman Geek

Yeah

this may influence planning for my next desk

Psycogeek

Things went from engenerred to drive a truck across it, to "it will work somewhat for the purpose" nothing in between

Journeyman Geek

This is erm

inch thick particle board

Psycogeek

01:45

so is this, with sheer pannel ,and press board is usually less saggy than plywood.

A.J. Ruckman

02:25

@Psycogeek that worked well Psyco, everything passed :)

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Feature Request- adding "date tags"

There are many questions that have never been answered as they have been stomped on by newer questions. There are also questions where the user has got an answer but it didn't work for him. My solution to this is date tags. There would be 5 specific date-tags under the [unanswered] tag for quest...

Journeyman Geek

02:43

@Psycogeek: yup

Tho, when I switch rooms (which is dependant on my brother moving out his stuff and getting airconditioning fixed up) I MIGHT be able to steal the old conference room table...

which is ginormous.

but that means the tabletop plan is redundant

Dog hates blowing raspberries.

►

The dog is totally going "Man, I'm so fed up with his shit"

Journeyman Geek

03:43

hmm

makezine.com/2015/11/05/…

this seems shiny

Recycle Bin

how come we dont just have more CPU ram and scrap external ram

Psycogeek

04:23

@JourneymanGeek so where lies the issues, what is the problem with the sag? keyboard rock? monitor base barely setteled? here it is the sag gets in the way of the cupboard/cabinet doors jamming up

@RecycleBin they (sorta) did that with AMD gpu items, stacking up ram under the heatsink on the same pcb as the cpu HBA or something. I thought they were going to put it in the die, but they did not.

I would still want to choose how much ram , so if the wedge only 4gig on that would suck.

as much as they crammed in the little space (stacked) it may very well be the future for devices, at least for SOCs or something.

Recycle Bin

why would you need to choose, it will already be wayy faster

Psycogeek

because i must have too much ram :-) i am still hopping they will create a law some day that abolishes paging :-)

or say just a paging prohabition, then they can still have black market paging.

Recycle Bin

its not just about having more its how fast it is too

Psycogeek

it isnt the bottleneck for anything as far as i can tell, i have one machine with terrible ram throughput, and one with 4X that, and the "overall performace" is not changed that much.

Recycle Bin

you could have more than 4 gigs but the cpu would be bigger on the board

Psycogeek

04:35

cpu dies (the actual cpu) has gotten so thin and small a desktop one, would fit in a cell phone. so they have the space for it, maybe not all the ease of cooling.

Recycle Bin

I know its not the bottleneck but still

it would be faster and smaller

than having 64 gb of ram or something less

Psycogeek

so one might ask the ram makers why the ram chipmaking process has not been changed vastly to have it all tiny fast . must stop paying them untill they change.

And why ddr4 isnt anything but ddr3+

Recycle Bin

yeah ddr 3 is better than ddr4

unless its quad channel

Bob

@allquixotic they do what now? o.O

Journeyman Geek

05:25

@Psycogeek: I think its cause I replaced the original table legs, with a big perpendicular bit of particleboard with trestles.

There's not much weight on it. PC's over one of the trestles so main weight is the 24 inch screen

@RecycleBin: cause cache is expensive

If your cache on die fails, your whole chip is gone.

The current set up with smaller amounts of cache is fairly efficient in terms of yield

(see the very expensive pentium pro vs its cheaper, odder next gen part, the pentium II)

The only processor I know of with off die cache

Also, DDR4 is designed for better power efficiency, some loss of speed and bigger sticks of ram

I suppose I could clear off my desk and turn it over

Bob

05:46

Journeyman Geek

hmm.

I need... 9 barrels of sake, 2.5 half dozen arches and a shark sword. Also, that guy's leg.

Bob

o.O

Journeyman Geek

Yamata no Orochi

Yamata no Orochi (八岐の大蛇, literally "8-branched giant snake") or Orochi, translated as the Eight-Forked Serpent in English, is a legendary 8-headed and 8-tailed Japanese dragon that was slain by the Shinto storm-god Susanoo. == Mythology == Yamata no Orochi legends are originally recorded in two ancient texts about Japanese mythology and history. The ca. 680 AD Kojiki transcribes this dragon name as 八岐遠呂智 and ca. 720 AD Nihongi writes it as 八岐大蛇. In both versions of the Orochi myth, Susanoo or Susa-no-Ō is expelled from Heaven for tricking his sister Amaterasu the sun-goddess. After expulsion from...

;p

(I meant sharp, and misremembered the number of heads, but close enough!)

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Oh, I thought you meant shark sword...

Clear question with examples

07:13

On this question of mine superuser.com/questions/543332/… do you see that the other answer is listed above my selected answer?

And to my knowledge, it's wrong/misleading

If I ping someone in a comment then delete it I wonder if it gets deleted from their inbox

Journeyman Geek

@Clearquestionwithexamples if its a self answer, answer order is randomised.

Clear question with examples

"answer answer"?

Journeyman Geek

They get it in their inbox.

Clear question with examples

What if you don't get online for say 8 hours. Will it still be there?

Journeyman Geek

Answer order.

Yup

But they may getbs truncated copy of the message.

Clear question with examples

07:48

I don't think this is a duplicate at all superuser.com/questions/236390/…

It should just be a related link in a comment

Psycogeek

@Clearquestionwithexamples one is not actually over the other just yet, a phenomena of the SE system, same votes "each gets a chance" they (seem to) cycle around . if you refresh the page a different one would be at the top. (or something like that.

why the accepted is not at the top, that i dont know, but the accepted is not always "good for everyone" anyways.

Clear question with examples

I think journ answered it above.

Psycogeek

if the votes are hugely different, then the downvoted crap will float to the bottom.

Clear question with examples

" if its a self answer, answer order is randomised." otherwise the selected answer should always be on top

Psycogeek

08:05

ordered 3 times from DX, the first 2 times the shipping method was rejected, because they like to slip lithium and lithium-ion batteries by unnoticed. the 3rd time , they did it again. Arggg.

that the package RI692265921CN from your order ###
has failed to pass the airline security check as it contains lithium
batteries/knives or products that contain liquid which are now under extra
scrutiny in world air cargo services.

Screwing up the first time, is learning, screwing up the 2nd time is testing what you learned, the 3rd time, well that is just stupid :-)

Bob

08:26

Hm. 4 TB external HDD for 149 AUD.

I'm tempted. But I'm out of USB 3.0 ports...

Psycogeek

08:45

those things slide in and out :-) I only use externals for backup, and only 1 is ever connected at a time, and once done none are connected. that way if a virus hits

Bob

@Psycogeek I keep them plugged in but switched off at the hub

DavidPostill

@Clearquestionwithexamples It also depends on how you have chosen to sort the answers (active/oldest/votes). Yours is first if active is chosen.

Psycogeek

@Bob oh dat smart

Bob

09:08

@Psycogeek Picked up one of these a while back

Psycogeek

@Bob very nice, i dont suppose they make $25 ones too :-) (that work as well)

Bob

@Psycogeek I bought it for around $25 :P

It does have some overheating (?) issues with long file copying operations though :\

warcom.com.au/…

Journeyman Geek

09:27

@Psycogeek wierd

I've never had issues ordering batteries or other things off DX. Tho my most recent order hasn't shown up in tracking so far

Psycogeek

i specified tracking paid a small extra ammount for it, cheap version of insurance, knowing that it shipped.

@Bob overheating which causes it to ? pause , disconnect, Corrupt shi| and deserves to die?

Bob

@Psycogeek Well, it used to disconnect. Hasn't done so in the last few months, so I dunno.

@Psycogeek This kind of thing happens :\

Fasttech tends to be better for batteries to AU though

They have some special AU shipping

Psycogeek

09:44

@Bob i do like to mod stuff, heat sinks and fans and all. some stuff it crashes no mater, but many things i have extended the life, by finding "the hot Chip"

Bob

@Psycogeek Yea, it hasn't done so recently but if it starts again I'll probably pull it open and take a look.

I'm only guessing it's overheating, but back when it was happening it would disconnect after a while, and then after you re-plugged it it would work for a short time. Longer if you leave it for a bit.

Sounds like overheating to me :P

Bob

09:57

> TPG has offered an optional static IP with optional reverse DNS as a FREE option on ADSL2 plans for almost a decade now.

o.o

I didn't know that.

Journeyman Geek

10:46

got my cheapass SSDs

courier seems to have tossed it at the door since we were out.

DavidPostill

@JourneymanGeek I hope they still work after the unexpected g-forces ;)

Journeyman Geek

@DavidPostill: heh. Its supposed to be tracked, never turned up on the system

Were I less honest, I could entirely logically claim I never got the drives ;p

Yeah, these are quite shit ;p

qasdfdsaq

11:06

@JourneymanGeek Eh, could be worse. Could be a USB flash drive inside an SSD case :-P

Psycogeek

@qasdfdsaq you mean instead of 2 and a hub :-)

qasdfdsaq

@Psycogeek Lol. Not seen one that sophisticated myself

But it's not terrible, 200-250MB/sec is aroundabouts what I got even with a high end SSD on my old SATA-300 system

Psycogeek

plus some of them china sellers like to include a few rocks/metal bars in there, to make it seem like there is something.

Journeyman Geek

@qasdfdsaq: Planning on stuffing this into a core 2 duo so...

@Bob @allquixotic ^

Its MLC apparently

but I can't tell anything more than that

qasdfdsaq

Open it up and look at the chips?

Journeyman Geek

11:14

Tempted to actually

qasdfdsaq

Journeyman Geek

Oh man

There's a TINY circuot board

qasdfdsaq

That's normal

No, wait. What I meant to say was.

Pics or it didn't happen!

Journeyman Geek

qasdfdsaq

Dammit can't read everything properly.

Flash chip appears to be masquerading as an Intel part.

Claims to be an Intel 20nm MLC. Except doesn't show up on Intel parts lists.

Journeyman Geek

11:26

29f01T08PCMF2

qasdfdsaq

Yeah, lots of dodgy Chinese sellers quoting that part number but I don't see any actual association with Intel other than the sellers claiming it is.

Journeyman Geek

and single 120gb chip?

qasdfdsaq

Then again, I'm not an expert on these things

Yeah, not really surprising.

Even high-end Samsung SSDs have a tiny PCB and a reduced number of chips on the smaller models

Journeyman Geek

Intel was using 8 chips in 2011.

qasdfdsaq

^^ Samsung 850 Pros

^^ Samsung 850 Evos

Journeyman Geek

11:29

lol

I didn't dare open mine up

qasdfdsaq

Wait if you didn't open yours up where's that picture from?

Journeyman Geek

Oh I mean my 850 pro

qasdfdsaq

Ah. Misunderstood. Sorry.

Journeyman Geek

I'm PRETTY sure there's benchmarks of my 840 on this chat somewhere too

qasdfdsaq

Never owned an 840. Kinda glad, I heard they were buggy

Journeyman Geek

11:32

The evos were

and well

My 840 was cheap

I paid 15 dollars for shipping

Leathe

Hmm. How/where does google take the values from when it shows the wikipedia article on a search. You know that sidebar thingy that pops up, when for example you search for Adolphe Sax?

Journeyman Geek

heh

@qasdfdsaq: also those write speeds are shit

qasdfdsaq

@JourneymanGeek On the 840 or on your cheapo one?

Journeyman Geek

The cheapo

they're what are specified tho

Leathe

Obviously from Wikipedia, but in the finnish google, it shows that Adolphe Sax was born in 1184 and died in 1894. yet in the wiki article itself it has the right years

Journeyman Geek

11:34

352 mbit sequencial write speed is optimistic tho

qasdfdsaq

Eh, they're not that bad. About half of that on my Samsung 850 Evo 120GB

Journeyman Geek

I'm replacing spinning rust drives with one of these

trying to decide if I should throw games on the other

qasdfdsaq

Seems to be some kind of controller bottleneck though, you don't usually see sequential, QD32 and random 4K results to all be the same

Journeyman Geek

That's expected

this has like... no cache

or very little

anandtech.com/show/9357/…

scroll down

Another product Silicon Motion had on display was the SM2246XT, which is a DRAM-less version of the popular SM2246EN. There is a slight performance impact from the lack of DRAM cache as only parts of the NAND mapping table can be stored in the controller's internal SRAM cache, but in return the SM2246XT offers lower cost due to a smaller die (no need for DRAM controller

qasdfdsaq

Ah I thought the 6 was a C from the photo

Interestingly it's actually faster (where it matters) than the Intel X25-M:

Journeyman Geek

11:43

ahh

qasdfdsaq

At least on a crappy X61s

Journeyman Geek

I will be testing this on an R61 ;p

qasdfdsaq

Ignore that, seems the thread is about crappy SSD performance on the x61s

forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=116761

@JourneymanGeek Not familiar with the older models but I'm guessing the same number indicates the same chipset/generation like current models

Journeyman Geek

Essentially

X is the smallest, T is mainstream, R is slightly stripped down.

qasdfdsaq

Possibly the same issue then, if they have the same chipset.

Journeyman Geek

11:45

but it should be the same where it counts

This however is on sata 3, I think, on a desktop

qasdfdsaq

Ah

Psycogeek

I would say you got a pretty good deal for your $40 :-)

Journeyman Geek

40 usd actually

Its good enough for what I mainly want to use it for ;p

qasdfdsaq

Yeah. Any old SSD is going to be faster than spinning rust.

Psycogeek

looks fine, now just tell me in 2 years IF it dies.

qasdfdsaq

11:47

Even "The worst SSD we've ever tested" on some review sites is still five times faster than spinning rust.

@Psycogeek You expect it to survive 2 years?

I've had Kingston, Sandisks, and OCZ drives fail in far less

Psycogeek

now your scaring me, and you know what that means, starting the backups again.

qasdfdsaq

Good!

If I make ONE person a day go and do proper backups, I've done my bit for humanity.

Psycogeek

lets see it would take me 4-5 hours to re-do everything i did the last 2 weeks. (eventhing else is backed)

Journeyman Geek

rofl

"Proper" backups, tested repeatedly.

qasdfdsaq

Shit, I haven't done backups for 4 months

And I want one of these:

Psycogeek

11:52

multitask, for all the data disks it can just play with them while it is boored, wont change responces

@qasdfdsaq and magic 1.5gig speeds

qasdfdsaq

My motherboard can RAID two of them!

In fact, it's so new it can RAID two of them and still boot

Psycogeek

then something is sure to choke while handling it.

qasdfdsaq

Yeah, me.

Psycogeek

your buses will be like a LA freeway

qasdfdsaq

My old motherboard wouldn't need busses

Just lanes!

TBH there's 4GB/sec bandwidth between the CPU and the RAID chip(set) so you'd lose a little on sequential reads but nothing on writes.

Hopefully in a year I'll be able to upgrade to Skylake-E and all my problems in life will disappear

Psycogeek

11:58

oh you will still have one problem, keeping up with the computer

qasdfdsaq

Pah! I'm sure I can duplicate this 16GB torrent ... and delete it again faster than my computer!

Oooooh! These would work really well as an SSD cache for my ZFS too.

Psycogeek

but how will you keep the 16 cores busy?

qasdfdsaq

What? Cores? Where?

On Skylake-E? Easy.

Just turn off Adblock in Chrome.

400+ tabs of adverts to render in the background! Mwahahah!

Psycogeek

ohhh and i suppose chrome can fill all your ram at the same time

qasdfdsaq

Yeah, it's pretty decent at that as it is :-/

Bob

12:05

@qasdfdsaq 840 pro were fine but evo had issues

I have two 840 evo msata :\

Stack Exchange

0

Q: When using filter the question are not ordered correctly

I just answered a question asked in 2013. I used a filter to filter out a certain tag and then the unanswered questions. So I took the first in the list thinking it is a recent question. Why not sort by date desc when filtering for unanswered tags?

bug feature-request tags unanswered-questions questions-filter

Bob

(one purchased before I knew about the issues, the other supplied in place of a plextor by a laptop builder that declared bankruptcy a week later)

840 evo -- they didn't really account for TLC on such a small process size

old data would be difficult (slow) to read

and potential data loss

IIRC the 'fix' was a firmware update that rewrites old data while idle

qasdfdsaq

@Bob 850 Pro's had some issues with data loss... blog.algolia.com/when-solid-state-drives-are-not-that-solid

Blamed on the Linux kernel, but somehow only happened on Samsung SSDs

Bob

@qasdfdsaq they concluded that was a problem with the Linux drivers, I thought

Journeyman Geek

yup

qasdfdsaq

12:07

(Not to mention nearly all Samsung SSDs falsely report queued TRIM capabilities and had to be blacklisted)

Bob

@qasdfdsaq They only tested Samsung and Intel

@qasdfdsaq yea, that would be an issue

(I only read that article when it first came out, and skimmed the revised one. Need to read the whole revised one sometime.)

This does make a good case for ZFS and other FSes with data checksums though.

qasdfdsaq

Yep. Detecting silent data corruption on drives is what ZFS excels at

Ironically, I've not had a single one on any of my new drives, now that HDDs are so mature.

Bob

@qasdfdsaq Looking at the kernel patch though, that doesn't seem relevant?

qasdfdsaq

To Agolia's issues, yes, the TRIM features, no.

Bob

@qasdfdsaq I kinda want to put ReFS on my drives

qasdfdsaq

12:15

ReFS makes the filesystem fairy cry

Bob

@qasdfdsaq Hm?

qasdfdsaq

@Bob Hm hm?

Bob

@qasdfdsaq Why?

qasdfdsaq

@Bob I have no idea. It just sounded funny in my head.

Bob

lol

@qasdfdsaq It's basically the MS/Windows counterpart to ZFS/XFS/btrfs.

qasdfdsaq

12:18

Why couldn't they just build on the two existing platforms already there instead of yet again, introducing their own, proprietary clone?

Psycogeek

like Fat64 , thats what they need

qasdfdsaq

Just when BTRFS is on the verge of making it into the mainstream, it gets bulldozed out of the public eye by Microsoft again

Bob

@qasdfdsaq btrfs is currently rather broken

qasdfdsaq

@Psycogeek FAT64? Wasn't that ex(xxxxtreeeme)FAT?

Bob

ZFS works but currently is proprietary.

qasdfdsaq

12:20

@Bob fingers in ears nanananana can't hear you nananana * fingers in ears

Bob

Dunno about XFS.

qasdfdsaq

@Bob Proprietary as in "free and open source", yeah. Proprietary.

Bob

Also, none of them really mesh into the Windows world that well

Well enough to work to an extent, but not enough to, say, run the Windows OS on them.

Not that you can install the OS on ReFS yet anyway.

@qasdfdsaq Older versions were open.

Current version on the Solaris branch is not, IIRC.

qasdfdsaq

@Bob Current versions were forked off the last open source release

(I'm talking about ZFS on Linux/BSD/Illumos, not Oracle Solaris)

Bob

@qasdfdsaq They were, yes, but Oracle owns the ZFS trademark.

qasdfdsaq

12:22

Eh I can boot Windows off a ZFS network store. All Windows needs is a Linux microkernel in a VM serving a loopback drive.

Bob

Could still continue with the open-source version and accept that it diverges from the Solaris version.

Not as great an option as "it's open-source" makes it sound initially.

qasdfdsaq

It has. It diverged at the last OSOL release, hence why I call it a fork.

Well the non-Oracle version sees active development across 3 *nix communities...

And it's supported better, across a wider series of platforms, than the original Solaris ZFS ever was.

Oh hey, it's actively developed on OS X as well. That makes four platforms

Bob

shrug there's nothing stopping someone from implementing it as a FS driver for Windows if they wanted, either

Isn't that supposedly the beauty of open-source?

qasdfdsaq

Exactly. Microsoft could well have done that, but decided to .... well... to be Microsoft.

Bob

@qasdfdsaq They have no obligation to do so. Anyone else can if they want to.

qasdfdsaq

12:28

Now I dunno about trademark law but I'd imagine trademarking a name already openly used by other people isn't a cut-and-dry case.

They have an obligation to not be proprietary and anticompetitive, I know that much.

Bob

I'm not too sure on the technical specifics of ReFS, but I do know NTFS supports some things typical *nix OSes don't.

Some of which Windows relies on.

@qasdfdsaq This isn't being anticompetitive in any sense.

If they adopted ZFS and extended it, people would be bashing them for introducing proprietary extensions.

qasdfdsaq

@Bob We'll let the ECJ decide that...

Bob

Or even if said extensions were open, for introducing extensions unsupported by other platforms.

@qasdfdsaq What, deciding not to use a specific FS?

How on earth is that anticompetitive?

In the same way ZFS is anticompetitive because they didn't use XFS?

qasdfdsaq

"abuse of its dominant position in the market "

Bob

In the same way btrfs is anticompetitive because they didn't use ZFS or XFS?

qasdfdsaq

12:32

Pretty much all your examples could have been said of IE and WMP yet they were convicted on both counts...

Microsoft seems to have a history of losing cases when they come up in the ECJ.

Bob

@qasdfdsaq shrug I don't really agree with those either. But that was back in the days when it could be (and was) argued that a browser isn't an intrinsic part of an OS.

A FS is one of the more fundamental components of any OS.

qasdfdsaq

Microsoft tried to argue it was

(I mean, that was the basis of half their defense after all)

Right now ReFS is an optional component (given on desktop versions you have to go through some trouble to manually enable it at all)

The problem is Europe sees anything Microsoft does as anticompetitive if it disadvantages another party as a result of their market position

DavidPostill

@qasdfdsaq Quite right too ;)

All these US companies trying to take over Europe!

And succeeding :/

qasdfdsaq

Tesla is one I don't mind at all

Bob

@qasdfdsaq IIRC that only applies if it's to gain an advantage in another market.

qasdfdsaq

12:38

@Bob Admittedly "alternative filesystems for Windows" isn't much of a market

Hennes

@JourneymanGeek Die yield and ache post: superuser.com/questions/196143/…

Bob

@qasdfdsaq There was also something about using undocumented APIs. Assuming everything is available and publicly documented in the IFS kit then there shouldn't be a problem from that angle.

XKCD

Markets have been rocked by a second day of uncertainty after someone set up a giant Ouija board on the NYSE wall controlled collectively by the movement of the stock tickers.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob @qasdfdsaq I think its more market segmentation

Same reason NTFS deduplication isn't enabled on desktop OSes without some (minor) hacking

qasdfdsaq

NTFS has deduplication?!

HOW COULD THEY KEEP THIS FROM ME?!?!

Journeyman Geek

12:52

weikingteh.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/… this is the instructions for windows 8.1

qasdfdsaq

But what about windows XP???

Journeyman Geek

hm

Transcript for