Root Access

8:05 PM

welp i'm in

There you go

I find that people registered on matrix.org have a lot harder time joining the room than people on their own homeserver or mine

djsmiley2k

yeah h:/

allquixotic

User accounts are tied to a specific server. So you'd probably have less trouble if you used Geek's server or mine as your user's home

Matrix.org just seems like it's overloaded due to the popularity of Matrix rn

It's decentralized for a reason

Circus Cat

@djsmiley2k Oh I've been wanting something like this for ages

allquixotic

You can actually register on roota.cc using riot.im

@CircusCat something like matrix?

djsmiley2k

8:09 PM

it IS pretty cool, but it's v.clunky

and I don't know if it's big enough to not fail

allquixotic

It'll only succeed with users - and I like living on the bleeding edge

djsmiley2k

Sure I get that.

it's interesting at least, I just need more time

allquixotic

The user experience isn't as buttery smooth as Discord but it is ultimately a giant middle finger to our censor-happy corporate overlords (and I am deliberately not trying to single out SE - other centralized chat stuff will eventually have the same problems as SE I suspect)

If it gets too hairy we can enable E2E crypto and then only the NSA will know about it

bertieb

OOoh

Diaspora* too!

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic or leave user registration open

@djsmiley2k the french government is going to use it for internal IM

and its a protocol like IRC with servers

in a sense, its kinda like irc v3's plans but in existance, and using web protocols as an underpinning

djsmiley2k

8:18 PM

yup

I just want a nice UI built in irssi

that IRC bridge might work, I'll have to look

Journeyman Geek

ugh

I just fixed a thing on my work system that's been bothering me a while

but I don't remember what I did

this happens a lot

djsmiley2k

:D

So, after months of no one taking any notice

I finally found the problem with the phones today \o/

Journeyman Geek

\o/

bertieb

8:34 PM

harrumph

I need to automate the setup of Xen domUs

(xen-tools does it but didn't work before for... reasons)

I always forget something

djsmiley2k

yeah, I need to figure out hoiw i wanna isolate

allquixotic

8:49 PM

gVisor is trying to be the Docker/Kubernetes of isolated containers.

bertieb

9:09 PM

Of course!

I remember now

Linux kernels > 4.11-somethingish fail to boot with Xen for <localisation error: DEITY_KNOWS_WHY not found>

So I manually installed 4.11-7-1 before

It's so obvious!~

Saving grace was another DomU's bash_history, which told me what the hecksauce I did before

grumbles at no-one in particular

djsmiley2k

:D

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9:26 PM

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allquixotic

I think I met a clone of Mike Ehrmantraut in RL today at work

bertieb

Okay so I have a running synapse server

Now to read how_to_matrix.docx.pdf.txt

allquixotic

@bertieb riot.im/app register and click custom server and put in your server's FQDN instead of matrix.org but leave vector.im unmodified

Then join the room via the link in pin

bertieb

Ah, I'll need to set up an A record for the server I'd imagine

allquixotic

Your registration will be bound to your "home server" (the Synapse instance you set up) but identification is managed by vector, and riot is nothing but a client

I think riot can resolve local servers too - not sure if it has to be running locally for that

bertieb

9:38 PM

I need to go through riot.im rather than the server's web interface?

allquixotic

You can use that too but it sucks and is deprecated

bertieb

Ah okay 👍

allquixotic

You can also host your own riot instance

bertieb

Can matrix do IPv6?

I could AAAA instead of A and NAT punching

allquixotic

Doubtful

My server doesn't do ipv6 at all so you'd be unable to connect to me over ipv6

bertieb

9:41 PM

Ah hmm

Will give it a shot

(cert warnings despite matching server name given during setup)

Ah, I'm getting the CORS message @djsmiley2k got

Related to the invalid cert complaint perhaps?

I inspected the cert and it's valid for the right domain, time is right etc

bwDraco

9:57 PM

So... are we abandoning this chat room?

And you're hosting this, @allquixotic?

Journeyman Geek

naw

allquixotic

@bwDraco multiple people are - it's a federation of decentralized servers

at least Bob, Geek, dj, and Luke are in on it AFAICT

and bertieb

bwDraco

I'm wondering if I should start an instance myself...

allquixotic

@bertieb joining #ra:roota.cc? usually you'll just have to wait a while for the federation process to complete, it can take a while if you've a new homeserver

make sure you have two ports exposed like this says for option 3

> Use a regular certificate on 443 reversed proxy to 8008 and keep the self-signed generated one on 8448

bwDraco

I kinda want to focus on learning Docker, but it's been extraordinarily busy for me lately and I have more furniture assembly and other home improvement to work on.

allquixotic

10:00 PM

regular certificate would be something like Let's Encrypt or a bought one with CA trust chain

@bwDraco I've got good news: you can Yo Dawg this

bertieb

@allquixotic It was during registration, which turned out to not be necessary as I'd pre-registered myself on my own server (which has reg disabled OOTB)

allquixotic

yo dawg, I herd u like Docker, so we made a docker-compose.yaml so you can docker while you matrix

@bwDraco here you go - learn Docker by setting up Synapse

bertieb

Now it complains for login (Chromium), but FF works okay as I added a manual exception for the generated cert

allquixotic

@bertieb yeah I set up Lets Encrypt for mine on 443

bertieb

Ah, could do that I guess

bwDraco

10:05 PM

I might need several days to catch up on this. I'll see what I can do.

allquixotic

@bwDraco if you wanna use my spare server to hack on, feel free

just let me know you'd like to

bwDraco

I'll certainly look into it. I might use that as a test server before I put anything to production.

This looks awfully complicated, though.

allquixotic

@bwDraco eh, I've done worse

on a scale of sysadmin pain from "install Windows Server" to "live migrate a HA AD cluster with 200,000 users, 3 subsidiary companies, contractors, foreign nationals and top secret information, with 0 downtime because downtime costs $5M per minute" this is about a 3 out of 10

bwDraco

Wow.

May 18 at 15:12, by bwDraco

I feel like I'm just not accomplishing as much as the other regular here.

allquixotic

@bwDraco not that I've done the aforementioned AD migration

(I haven't, but I have a sense of how painful it'd be to pull off)

it's harder than setting up an icecast server but easier than setting up a proper IMAP/SMTP/webmail complete mail system (assuming you don't use some clickwrap package that does everything for you; I mean, like, installing postfix from apt and editing 9,000 config files manually)

TL;DR:
1. Install packages
2. Create a docker-compose.yml file
3. Get the right contents in docker-compose.yml (hint: your first, second, and 50th attempts will be wrong in some way)
4. Run `docker-compose up -d`
5. Scratch your head; run `docker ps` and `docker logs <container>`; make random edits to the yml
6. Run `docker-compose up -d` again; repeat 4-6 ad nauseum until you're happy with it

That Brazilian Guy

10:15 PM

WTF roota.cc? Why not rootacc.es?

It's cold and my nose is freezing what happened to the city

bwDraco

This seems awfully intimidating to me.

I feel like I'm missing so much of the required knowledge to do this :\

Faheem Mitha

@bwDraco What's intimidating?

That Brazilian Guy

@bwDraco One more reason for doing it!

bwDraco

I know this will not win me any favor, but sadly, I won't be able to do this right now.

Sorry, @allquixotic and others.

bertieb

@bwDraco No prob, you could join sans server and set that up later :)

bwDraco

10:22 PM

Because among other things, I'm also trying to deal with a camera problem and I have yet to fully grasp the basics of Docker.

Also, for whatever reasons, every time I try to start working on it, my body just rejects it and I go to sleep or do something else.

By the time I wake up, I wind up with another family obligation to deal with.

allquixotic

10:43 PM

@bwDraco oh, it's not about favor :) just thought you'd be interested, it's not strictly needed

and it takes about 3 minutes to sign up and join without setting up a homeserver

bwDraco

Yeah.

allquixotic

@ThatBrazilianGuy I don't live in Spain or know anyone in Spain who can get the domain for me

namecheap.com/support/knowledgebase/article.aspx/9246/36/…

it's only $10/year, but we'd need a trustworthy sort who actually can prove they live in Spain to get the registrar to cough up a domain registration in the .es ccTLD, and even still, it'd only be "rootacces" not "rootaccess", since there's no .ss TLD and likely never will be because of the Schutzstaffel

Burgi

The Most Decorated Dog of WWI

►

allquixotic

we have zero Spanish residents (that I know of) within even our fringe group of semi-regulars here

Ben N

Apparently .ss used to be for South Sudan but it was removed

allquixotic

10:47 PM

@BenN huh

someone start your own country and reclaim the .ss ccTLD!

South powerShell (SS)

Ben N

:D

rootaccess.chat can be had for $25/year

That Brazilian Guy

meh.

@allquixotic That might be the reason to join ~~yet another messenger~~ Matrix

allquixotic

@ThatBrazilianGuy "That"?

(there's no need to set up a new homeserver if you don't want to; I'd recommend registering your account with roota.cc since I run it on postgres and the others run theirs on sqlite, but take your pick)

bertieb

@CircusCat 1 hour 'til draw results

Ben N

11:05 PM

Hm, the Riot e-mail verification message doesn't seem to be arriving

allquixotic

@BenN check your spam folder? :D

you're already in the chat on the server side, because I can see you

Ben N

Spam folder is... completely empty?

That's weird

Oh, it just arrived at the first address I tried, I guess it just takes a while

Ave

@ThatBrazilianGuy matrix sucks

Ben N

And there we go

allquixotic

@BenN everything using the main matrix.org server takes a little while; it's a network of a bunch of fairly overloaded servers hosted by different people. When you register on riot, you can pick "Custom Server" at the bottom (easily overlooked) and put in roota.cc for the server instead of matrix.org, and it'll be super fast because my server has plenty of spare resources

Ave

11:08 PM

I spent so much time trying to get matrix working properly

allquixotic

each server has its own user list though so you'd have to re-reg if you wanted to do that

Ave

by setting up my homeserver

Ben N

Whoops, probably too late then

allquixotic

@Ave so did I, but I understand it now, and it works fine

Ave

I spent like

a day

allquixotic

11:08 PM

@BenN too late for that account but you can always make a new one if you wanted... but no biggie

Ave

I followed all the guides

in the end it didn't work, had issues, random unknown errors all around

allquixotic

@Ave we're having a better experience as long as folks stay off of using matrix.org as their homeserver

we have a network of 3 or 4 homeservers now and it's going well

Ave

Problem is, this was on my own homeserver.

I'll try starting the HS again and will try to join the RA channel

let's see how that goes.

bertieb

@allquixotic I just changed my server domain name; will I need to re-reg? :-\

allquixotic

I mean, it's a very alpha/beta sort of thing under heavy dev, but I think it has a ton of promise, and the more it improves and the more people use decentralized servers instead of the matrix.org centralized server, the better off it'll be

@bertieb if you didn't nuke your Synapse SQL database, I don't think you will....

try it and see

Ave

11:11 PM

I disagree that it has a lot of promise.

allquixotic

eh, you might because the domain changed from the point of view of the identity server

Ave

starting up synapse

bertieb

Yea, I wondered about that- had to rereg on the server

allquixotic

@Ave you're more than welcome not to participate (or not) as you wish ¯_(ツ)_/¯ we just thought it was a cool thing to set up and hoping it'll stick. (FWIW, if it's been a while since you fired it up, grab the latest stable, 0.29.1, somehow)

bertieb

Ah now FF is complaining about CORS

bwDraco

11:13 PM

wikihow.com/Sit-at-a-Computer

allquixotic

@bertieb FF, or riot?

bertieb

riot-in-FF

I need to figure out how to log out and back in, I think

bwDraco

I've been constantly thinking about ergonomics after I got this manager's chair.

That Brazilian Guy

> welcome not to participate (or not)

@allquixotic So, she can either not participate or not participate?

allquixotic

@bertieb that could be because you changed your domain, but it could also be due to attempting to register with a server that already has you registered under the same nickname with the old DB... I'd nuke the old DB... find where it is, delete it

@ThatBrazilianGuy typo, obviously

although you could do double negation and then it'd still make sense

i.e. "welcome to not participate or not not participate"

That Brazilian Guy

11:15 PM

@allquixotic No, it's your missing arm that's controlling your brain!

> ¯_(ツ)_/¯

lol. need `\`

@Ave old Synapse? never seen anything like that before. also not familiar with that client UI

bertieb

I literally can't figure out hopw to log out of the riot web app, lol

allquixotic

11:16 PM

@bertieb gear icon

That Brazilian Guy

> Aveao => Aveão => Avião

Ave

@allquixotic that's the official matrix UI

bertieb

@allquixotic Gives me a CORS complaint then an infinite spinner

Ave

not riot

allquixotic

@Ave which is in the process of being deprecated

it's rough around the edges

@bertieb clear cookies for riot.im?

bertieb

11:17 PM

@allquixotic Ya, that's me next step

Ave

28.1 is latest on arch for some reason

allquixotic

seriously, once these kinks get worked out during the initial federation / registration steps, it's pretty smooth sailing from there

Ave

will report it

Well I'll build synapse

allquixotic

I highly recommend using docker-compose for Synapse as they have a pretty damn good starting .yml file for you in the github repo, but nobody who's stood up a homeserver has yet taken me up on that (besides me) :P

That Brazilian Guy

@allquixotic If I had a server I'd do that.

Because DOCKERIZE EVERYTHING

bertieb

11:23 PM

I'd do that with another server, but it'd probably result in a third bertieb

That Brazilian Guy

And totally not because this:

All services are microservices if you ignore most of their features.

bwDraco

That doesn't make Docker any less valuable as a skill.

Ave

docker is just eh

it's easy but it's a huge waste of resources

That Brazilian Guy

~~HERETIC! HEATHEN!~~ I mean, how so?

bertieb

I tried Docker on my main machine once and it created some directories in my home folder that I didn't have read access to

True story

There's probably a reason why but hey ho

Ave

11:32 PM

@ThatBrazilianGuy installing 20 copies of the same software is fun.

Bob

@allquixotic ...the deb package has a perfectly good starting yml included too :P

Ave

when you can just share it with all 20 things.

bertieb

Arch community package has instructions on auto generatinga starting yml!

Ave

I also don't like not having direct access to the data, it's especially tricky when you containerize a software that has actually useful data, like for example gitlab, gitea, plex etc.

That Brazilian Guy

@Ave But you don't install it 20 times. All 20 containers use the same image layer with only different volumes (if you set so) and extra layers for existing differences.

@Ave You can create data volumes or binding mounts / links for that.

Ave

11:35 PM

it still runs 20 copies of it, doesn't it?

That Brazilian Guy

@Ave Yeah, it will run 20 processes, AFAIK.

Ave

And how is that not a waste of resources?

allquixotic

@Ave you can mount any directory from the host into the container, allowing you to directly see persistent data inside the container even if you blow up the contanier

That Brazilian Guy

@allquixotic ^-- what I said, but clearer.

allquixotic

the filesystem based resources used in a Docker image (properly sized) are extremely small, maybe a few hundred MB per package because it doesn't ship a full blown distro (no kernel, sparingly few debug utils)... only matters if you have it on precious small SSD storage... if you have anything HDD to put it on, it's negligible

Ave

11:36 PM

Also I still didn't find a way to bring docker containers up on boot

allquixotic

the main limitation of Docker is that different library versions will cause the same .so files to be loaded multiple times in memory to be used in different containers

but if you have 128GB of RAM like me it doesn't matter

That Brazilian Guy

@Ave restart: unless-stopped on docker-compose.yml

Ave

Not everyone has 128GB of RAM, even on servers.

@ThatBrazilianGuy which part exactly?

allquixotic

true, I got my server before the DRAM collusion problem

Bob

@allquixotic apparently no need to actually live in spain

allquixotic

11:38 PM

I don't use Docker for everything, but I mostly use it for things that are way too much of a pain to configure without it

That Brazilian Guy

> Docker provides restart policies to control whether your containers start automatically when they exit, or when Docker restarts. Restart policies ensure that linked containers are started in the correct order. Docker recommends that you use restart policies, and avoid using process managers to start containers.

docs.docker.com/config/containers/…

Circus Cat

Dammit, wish I'd read this less-sooner

allquixotic

@Bob you need a VAT ID though. does that mean anyone in the EU can get an .es domain?

Bob

@allquixotic @bertieb I think I have mine exposed over IPv6... idk if it can relay for you :P

@allquixotic no, you can use a foreign ID according to namecheap

Ave

I bought some eu only domains bought through internet.bs

Bob

11:39 PM

e.g. USA passport or driver's licence

allquixotic

o_O

bertieb

@Bob I'm looking into what I'd need to do to IPv6 it

Circus Cat

@Bob Dammit Bob, quit exposing yourself in a globally visible manner!

allquixotic

@ThatBrazilianGuy oh yeah; with docker-compose, the docker daemon (dockerd) actually manages your container lifecycle on restart!

and dockerd is started by.... systemd or SysV init or whatever

bertieb

@CircusCat Less-sooner... later?

That Brazilian Guy

11:41 PM

@allquixotic Yeah. That's quite nice combined with healtcheck. Althought it's mildly infuriating that there's no restart-on-healtcheck-failure and I need a 3rd-party container just for that.

Circus Cat

@bertieb I wanted the opposite of "I wish I'd read this sooner" but "I wish I'd read this later" just sounds wrong

allquixotic

Docker is hotter than the Royal Wedding where I work, so it's about time I learned it

3

bertieb

@CircusCat Ahh :P

Well, I have 1 ticket from a late referral and nothing to spend it ~~mon~~ on on, mon :P

Bob

@allquixotic the deb install comes with systemd services :P

allquixotic

@Bob my snap install of docker-ce comes with systemd services for docker

and docker-compose makes it auto-start

bwDraco

11:46 PM

It starts automatically with systemd on openSUSE.

(though you may have to run systemctl enable docker first)

Bob

I feel like we're talking about two different things

(specifically, I'm talking about deb install of synapse. docker's still in my "go die" category after guac, and it'll need a lot to move out of it. so whether docker itself autostarts on systemd... meh :P)

That Brazilian Guy

@Bob What happened with guac on docker?

Bob

@ThatBrazilianGuy pain. pain and misery.

that said, it has been a year, maybe it's gotten better

^ famous last words

That Brazilian Guy

@Bob You're making me want to try it just to see if I can.

But I don't have a server :'(

Bob

May 2 '17 at 3:10, by Bob

me trying to exit a docker thing

bwDraco

11:58 PM

docker stop <container>

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