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01:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

Bob
1:07 AM
@xCare What's the problem?
 
@Bob He can't use MBRWizard correctly.
 
Bob
1:22 AM
@MichaelFrank ..?
I have no idea what that is.
 
And that's part of the problem too
 
Bob
I mean, I can usually find my way around MBR issues, but I've never heard of a "MBRWizard"
Yay, GPU shipped.
 
tho what he's really trying to do is to fix the mbr on a drive so he can access data that was on it
 
Bob
Should get here tomorrow.
 
testdisk failed according to him
(He's been at this for something like a week or two)
 
1:23 AM
Why not slave the drive? o.O
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Testdisk doesn't even need a MBR.
 
@Bob: yup
 
Bob
It should be able to recover filesystems without a partition table at all.
 
That's what I thought.
 
Bob
o.O Zenfone Deluxe
 
1:35 AM
> Multi-faceted texture with 500+ polygons that excites your senses and gives the best grip.
 
Bob
o.O
It actually looks a lot like the non-leather back for the G4.
 
I must admit, the back looks cool.
 
Bob
...is that a button on the back?
 
Yep, looks like it.
 
Bob
> incorporating a physical rear key
Welp. Halfway to an LG clone :D
I do like that they kept the softkeys separate from the screen.
 
1:38 AM
Ooooh, is it a touch sensitive button on the back?
Looks like you can swipe up and down on it.
 
Bob
Huh. Interesting.
But bad for me.
(I find myself keeping my fingers on the rear button with a normal one-handed grip.)
 
Anonymous
my senses are excited
 
@Bob Just in case I suppose.
 
Bob
@MichaelFrank ?
The Zenfone one sticks out. The G4 one has a nice curve to it, so it just feels like a natural resting position.
 
@Bob I meant just in case you needed to press it. Don't want to have to go looking for the button!
 
Bob
1:52 AM
@MichaelFrank o.O
Never had that issue before...
 
It was a joke ._.
 
Anonymous
2:22 AM
hey @Bob
 
Bob
@PatoSáinz ?
 
Anonymous
@Bob I need a little favour from you, but first, do you have a personal website or rather, a personal vps?
 
Bob
@PatoSáinz uh... yes?
 
Anonymous
@Bob can you see the apache/nginx/whatever access log for them?
 
Anonymous
like, are you running something on port 80 that logs its visitors?
 
Bob
2:27 AM
@PatoSáinz Uh... yea?
 
Anonymous
@Bob can we chat privately somewhere? hangouts? it's a rather quick thing
 
Bob
O_O
 
Anonymous
hahah really it's no foul
 
Sounds like a #nohomo moment...
 
Bob
@PatoSáinz gitter.im
If you have a GitHub account
and can give me the name
 
Anonymous
2:31 AM
I do
 
Anonymous
superpatosainz
 
2:54 AM
Experimental server is down after last openSUSE Tumbleweed update. It appears a race condition in systemd is causing networking services to intermittently fail to start at boot time.
The issue is that systemd tries to start services in parallel, doing so in a non-deterministic fashion which makes it prone to these sorts of race conditions.
 
Bob
@DragonLord Not systemd issue. Service config issue.
Services that have dependencies must have these dependencies explicitly specified.
If it runs into a race condition, then there was a dependency that was not written down.
 
3:12 AM
Combed through the mailing list archives.
systemctl disable YaST2-Second-Stage.service
This should be a usable workaround.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:22 AM
So I installed a new graphics card yesterday. Obviously the computer wouldn't boot afterwards (stuck during POST). So, after trying some stuff, which didn't work, I installed the previous card again. Obviously the machine still wouldn't boot. So I unplugged my tablet from USB and the machine booted. I installed the new card again and the machine still booted fine.
Good times
And, of course, now it also works fine with the tablet plugged in
 
@OliverSalzburg I can relate. Everytime my computer won't boot after a build or upgrade (hey it doesn't happen too often) it turns out to be something simple when I've taken out every component and put them back in 5 times over.
 
lol
Prepping to throw windows 10 on my netbook
 
@JourneymanGeek what is your opinion on how well win10 would work on a smaller, or underpowered system, vrses say Win-XP which just generally had less Stuff?
 
(I was about to say "I think I'll back it up to the SD card I have in here, then I realised this does USB 3.0)
@Psycogeek this came with 8
but on my dad's netbook, with came with 7 starter, it seems VERY slightly faster
 
cool
and his netbook has more than one processing core (or not)?
 
6:35 AM
I remember being in the minority liking Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 when they came out over 7. Good thing I'm not yelled at for liking Windows 10 lol
 
as soon as i get done using all this obsolete software that doesnt work on windows 10, until it is upgraded LOL not gonna happen, i would like to go to windows 10, or be left in the dust in 2025
 
@Psycogeek: nope
single core, 1.6ghz
disk seems a bit weak, but I doubt I can convince him to let me pop an SSD in there ;)
 
I also installed Win10 on my new work desktop yesterday. Even though I had another one of those nasty lockups where applications won't start or close anymore and it won't reboot :(
shakes fist
 
@JourneymanGeek did you change anything in the system , either tweaked, or via actual provided changes , to work with a weaker system? disableing stuff and all?
 
The Win10 start menu works great on a freshly installed system btw ;P
 
6:43 AM
@Psycogeek: Nope
and its sort of a spare system anyway
 
What.
 
@JourneymanGeek meaning it could just as well have linux on it :-) some movies, katch a few e-mails, browse the web a bit.
 
@Leathe: Wait, you haven't noticed the spam here?
 
Not spam that's completely incoherent
2meta4me
 
No need, really
(we've seen this specific one before, You'd be suprised how quick people flag stuff ;p)
 
6:54 AM
Well, I flagged this one :P
others probably flagged it too, though
 
(deleting that since this place gets indexed)
 
kay
 
7:26 AM
hm. seems to be quite a few questions that the person who's asking it could've just googled it and gotten the answer faster than posting a question :P
 
Yeah, that happens
 
7:42 AM
@Leathe especially when it does not get answered. plus . if SU was what it could be searching on SU :-) would provide the answer , what a concept
 
Bob
7:56 AM
@JourneymanGeek Speaking of which, I still have that first-gen Atom netbook.
Came with WinXP, but had Win7 on it when given to me.
I installed OpenSUSE (11.2? 11.3?) on it.
Haven't started it in a long time.
 
@Psycogeek such recursive. much concept.
 
Bob
Wonder if it's worth trying to find the Win7 image and upgrade that to Win10 :P
 
@Bob: the system in question has one of those compressed drives so I'll end up needing to reformat it and build from scratch.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:35 AM
hi
I would like to capture all the network traffic going in about out of my computer in pcap
 
@Lembik pcap is just a library. You need a program that uses the pcap api to capture the data.
In the field of computer network administration, pcap (packet capture) consists of an application programming interface (API) for capturing network traffic. Unix-like systems implement pcap in the libpcap library; Windows uses a port of libpcap known as WinPcap. Monitoring software may use libpcap and/or WinPcap to capture packets travelling over a network and, in newer versions, to transmit packets on a network at the link layer, as well as to get a list of network interfaces for possible use with libpcap or WinPcap. The pcap API is written in C, so other languages such as Java, .NET languages...
 
@DavidPostill thanks.. is wireshark the most user friendly (on ubuntu)
 
Bob
@Lembik Yea, Wireshark is probably the easiest to use if you don't need it to be automatic.
 
@Bob thanks.. It hadn't even occurred to me that it could be automatic
I just want to do something very simple in fact which might already have a known answer
 
9:41 AM
No idea. I don't use Ubuntu. Wireshark is good on windows.
 
Bob
@Lembik If you want automatic (i.e. autostart, etc.) you're better off with command-line tools.
IIRC tcpdump would be good there.
 
the question I have is, do all the communication that a bittorrent client make contain the words "Bittorrent Protocol" at the start
@Bob thank you again
 
Bob
@Lembik You're probably better off looking up the spec!
 
what do you mean by looking up the step?
 
Bob
@Lembik Sorry, brainfart...
 
9:43 AM
oh I see
 
Bob
> All non-keepalive messages start with a single byte which gives their type.
 
@Bob that was quick posting those links ;)
 
reading...
 
Bob
> The handshake is a required message and must be the first message transmitted by the client. It is (49+len(pstr)) bytes long.

handshake: <pstrlen><pstr><reserved><info_hash><peer_id>

pstrlen: string length of <pstr>, as a single raw byte
@Lembik No, they don't. See above for counterexamples :P
> In version 1.0 of the BitTorrent protocol, pstrlen = 19, and pstr = "BitTorrent protocol".
 
@Bob ok so this is very helpful... now let me try to understand it
 
Bob
9:45 AM
So: "Bittorrent Protocol" is never sent. "BitTorrent protocol" is sent in the handshake, but not at the start: it is preceded by the length.
> All of the remaining messages in the protocol take the form of <length prefix><message ID><payload>.
 
"BitTorrent protocol" is sent just after pstrlen with is presumably 19 ?
 
Bob
So: the handshake will include "BitTorrent protocol" but other messages will not.
 
but is this in all the communications (TCP and UDP) ?
oh
do you understand which communications include the handshake?
 
Bob
> The peer wire protocol consists of an initial handshake. After that, peers communicate via an exchange of length-prefixed messages. The length-prefix is an integer as described above.
@Lembik Presumably the handshake is the very first message sent on the TCP stream.
Just after the TCP handshake (SYN, SYN+ACK, ACK).
You can still confirm with Wireshark.
 
what about udp?
 
Bob
9:48 AM
Subsequent TCP packets probably do not contain "BitTorrent protocol".
 
hmm... I am really interested in this at the flow level
 
Bob
@Lembik You can still capture with Wireshark to confirm.
 
@Bob thanks I will do
 
Bob
However: are you sure it uses UDP?
Looks like there's extensions that use UDP for tracker communication.
 
bittorrent apparently uses udp to find peers
 
Bob
9:50 AM
I don't see anything for a UDP peer wire protocol.
 
"BitTorrent uses a "distributed sloppy hash table" (DHT) for storing peer contact information for "trackerless" torrents. In effect, each peer becomes a tracker. The protocol is based on Kademila [1] and is implemented over UDP."
 
Bob
@Lembik Yea, you found it.
@Lembik Is this just academic interest or do you intend to do something with this info?
 
just academic interest
 
Bob
9:52 AM
If you're looking to block BitTorrent on a network, => security.stackexchange.com/questions/33983/…
@Lembik Note that even the standard HTTP(S) tracker communication does not send "BitTorrent protocol".
That is specifically for the peer wire protocol from what I can see.
 
this is very interesting
 
Bob
> The tracker is an HTTP/HTTPS service which responds to HTTP GET requests.
 
changing tack ever so slightly, do you understand how to use wireshark or similar to identify flows? As in what netflow would do
in tcp there should be a connection that lasts for some time, I think. This would be one flow
 
Bob
@Lembik Hm, I'm not sure what you mean by flows.
@Lembik Oh, that.
 
I would like to capture packets but on a "per connection" basis
 
Bob
9:55 AM
@Lembik You can right click a specific TCP packet and select "Follow TCP Stream".
 
I am not sure what this means exactly for udp
@Bob oh thanks!
 
Bob
You can also "Colorize Conversation" at any level (Ethernet, IP, TCP, etc.)
 
what would this mean for udp? netflow data seems to exist for udp data but what does it mean when there are no connections?
 
Bob
@Lembik Another way, if you know the destination address, is to filter by IP.
 
@Bob but I could have lots of flows per IP
 
Bob
9:56 AM
@Lembik Normally UDP is identified by source ip:port and dest ip:port pairs.
At least, that's how NAT tracks it IIRC.
 
say I go to a web page, I send some information and it sends some back to me. At some point the flow ends and another one is made
 
Bob
@Lembik Unfortunately, you probably won't be able to tell at the UDP protocol level.
(And HTTP doesn't run over UDP anyway.)
 
I didn't mean a web page over udp.. sorry :)
 
Bob
It's a fundamental limitation of a stateless protocol.
At best, tools can only guess what constitutes a conversation.
 
I was just trying to describe what I meant by a flow
so that you can have lots of them over time between the same ip port <-> ip port
 
Bob
9:58 AM
@Lembik I'm pretty sure Wireshark "stream"s are equivalent.
 
hmm.. so what happens in cisco netflow?
with udp I mean
@Bob great
 
Bob
In fact, I'm pretty sure "stream" is the standard terminology.
Cisco likes to invent their own terms for standard concepts.
 
even better :)
 
Bob
@Lembik I'm not sure. It probably guesses by source ip:port and dest ip:port.
UDP doesn't really have a concept of state or streams or, well, anything.
 
Bob
10:00 AM
If there's a higher protocol on top of UDP that it recognises, maybe it can use that.
 
I am attempting to run wireshark while downloading "linux" :)
 
Bob
heh
 
@Bob "213.113.0.177.46433: UDP, length 88
E..t..@.@..s...@.q.....a.`W.......:..^.\.....!-..BitTorrent protocol........K2....1.s}"
seems that you get BitTorrent protocol on udp too
this is from tcpdump
not really sure how to read it
 
Bob
@Lembik Interesting...
 
there is plenty more :)
 
Bob
10:12 AM
> Peers supporting the DHT set the last bit of the 8-byte reserved flags exchanged in the BitTorrent protocol handshake.
> A "peer" is a client/server listening on a TCP port that implements the BitTorrent protocol. A "node" is a client/server listening on a UDP port implementing the distributed hash table protocol. The DHT is composed of nodes and stores the location of peers. BitTorrent clients include a DHT node, which is used to contact other nodes in the DHT to get the location of peers to download from using the BitTorrent protocol.
@Lembik Looks like there's also a UDP tracker protocol.
Lots of non-standard extensions.
 
I see nodes208 a lot in the traffic
maybe that is part of this
 
Bob
@Lembik That might be part of the peer handshake.
 
I haven't worked out how to answer the question of whether every stream has BitTorrent at least once in it
 
Bob
@Lembik All peer communications should.
I don't think DHT node communications do.
Neither do tracker requests.
 
why would some udp communication do it?
I mean why would peers communicate over udp?
 
Bob
10:17 AM
@Lembik Presumably it's some BT over UDP extension?
I'm trying to find a spec for it.
 
thanks
I should say I am using the simple client deluge
 
Bob
> BitTorrent's peer protocol operates over TCP or uTP.
> uTP is a transport protocol layered on top of UDP. As such, it must (and has the ability to) implement its own congestion control.
I completely forgot about uTP.
 
oh!
 
Bob
Been a long time since I looked at BitTorrent protocols :P
 
and must also have it's own error correction
 
Bob
10:18 AM
@Lembik Perhaps not.
Remember that the BitTorrent protocol already includes some level of error checking.
IIRC each piece is hashed.
 
Bob
> In point of fact, BitTorrent is an ideal UDP application. Through a hashing algorithm integral to the BitTorrent service, the protocol has always been able to assure that it has reliably received all pieces of the information from all the users providing them.
 
fascinating
also, the list of ports is really random at least that I am seeing
 
Bob
> Wireshark

The BitTorrent dissector is (fully functional, partially functional, not existing, ... whatever the current state is). The DHT extension has been supported since r39653. The uTP extension has been supported since r36716.
So you might be able to grab the uTP stream.
(a single UDP stream could include multiple higher-level uTP streams)
 
that would be great!
I might take back the port point.. I should rerun wireshark with nothing else going (dropbox for example)
 
Bob
10:24 AM
@Lembik You can apply filters to get rid of the extra data.
Often easier than capturing again.
 
interesting
 
Bob
@Lembik If you right click on a packet you can filter them out really easily.
 
I don't understand how to use wireshark. It shows me one line only with time 0.000000000
how do I get it to show me more of the pcap?
(I was using tcpdump before to show the pcap)
 
Bob
o.O
@Lembik How did you capture it?
And do you have any filters set?
 
Can any of you guys tell me if Scoop or Chocolatey are really worth getting into?
 
Bob
10:44 AM
@OliverSalzburg Chocolatey looked interesting but iirc it had some issues with uninstalls last time I looked into it
 
@OliverSalzburg: Windows is getting on official package management system based on chocolatey, so... its probably worth learning
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek ...as opposed to the store?
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Seems... a bit stupid, actually.
So now there's two independent package management systems?
 
Its more for servers really
 
Bob
10:56 AM
(wasn't the store supposed to support 'desktop apps' too?)
 
@Bob: Sure. Wheels were meant for reinvention
and oneget wouldn't really work on server core boxen
 
Meh, so I'll continue ignoring it for another while :P
My U2F keys from GitHub/Yubico arrived btw
They work ...with GitHub ...on Chrome
That's all I can say for now ;P
 
lol
I don't think mine's shipped yet :/
 
This "universal" TFA is not as universal as one might think
 
there was an issue with my order
@OliverSalzburg: there's no support in it for FF yet
 
10:59 AM
@JourneymanGeek Yeah IE neither (big surprise)
Would be nice if I could use it to sign into Windows
Hmmm
 
This is gonna be fun
I need to update drivers on my stream. With no mouse/touchpad
 
> When properly configured, both the user’s password and YubiKey are required to gain access to the account.
Meh
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek USB mouse?
Mousekeys?
Or live up to your name and just use the keyboard :P
 
@Bob I just captured eth0. No filters. I can save it and see it in tcpdump so it is all there
I am just not sure how to use wireshark to explore it yet
 
Bob
 
11:14 AM
I suspect I am just useless :)
 
Bob
@Lembik Is the filter box empty?
You're capturing in Wireshark, right?
 
yes
sorry... back in 5 minutes
 
@Bob: used the keyboard until I got the right drivers.
 
the capture is fine as I can save it and see it in tcpdump
 
Weee. Got to destroy a harddrive
with a hammer.
 
Bob
11:25 AM
@Leathe You opened it up first, right?
 
11:50 AM
41
Q: Destroy a hard drive without proper equipment

Konrad RudolphI need to make two hard drives unreadable. Unfortunately, I have some constraints which make this harder than usual (in particular, they rule out the answers to other questions): I don’t have a computer to mount the drives and erase them (weird, right?) I don’t have a strong magnet I don’t have...

61
Q: How do you destroy an old hard drive?

XonatronHow do you destroy an old hard drive? To be clear, unlike questions Secure hard drive disposal: How to erase confidential information and How can I reliably erase all information on a hard drive? I do not want to erase the data and keep the hard drive, I want to get rid of the hard drive for good...

26
Q: How can I physically destroy data from a failed HDD?

dancekI have a broken HDD that contains sensitive data. Since no software can access the disk, I can't wipe it using any of the tools generally suggested. Breaking the disk physically into very small pieces would probably suffice, but that would require some good tools to do. Just waving a magnet arou...

 
I'm surprised I have never answered one of these.
 
Bob
lol
 
@JourneymanGeek What would your answer be?
 
Sensible answer?
Drilling or using an angle grinder/dremel cutting wheel.
Fun answer? Thermite
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek IMO, removing platters and then hammering is the best if you're paranoid.
 
11:58 AM
I've used a drill before. A masonry bit through the circuit board and platters in about 4 places probably leaves it unreadable ;)
 
Bob
You can still recover data around the drill holes.
 
I wasn't that paranoid ;)
 
how quickly would water destroy a hard drive?
 
I used DiskWipe first ...
 
I mean just put it in a bucket
maybe with soapy water just for fun
 
Bob
12:01 PM
@Lembik Very slowly (basically not at all).
 
Fluoroantimonic acid would be quicker
 
Bob
@DavidPostill Sounds hard to get :P
 
battery acid?
that's easy to get
 
Based on the silvery-white metal antimony, with a pH of -31.3, it's 100,000 billion billion billion times more potent than stomach acid, and makes its rambunctious cousin sulfuric acid look as gentle as a vanilla milkshake with whipped cream and a cherry on top.

"You couldn't pick up a bottle of it because after it ate through the bottle, it would dissolve your hand," Sam Kean noted in his book The Disappearing Spoon. This begs a simple question: how is fluoroantimonic acid stored?
 
Bob
@DavidPostill Probably PTFE?
> Containers for HF-SbF5 are made of PTFE.
Yup.
I just remember PTFE is basically completely resistant to acid.
 
12:04 PM
Teflon.
The answer, my friends, is the polymer that all fans of fried chicken know and love: polytetrafluoroethylene, more commonly known as Teflon. Thanks to its carbon-fluorine bonds -- the strongest single bond in organic chemistry -- Teflon is not only unreactive, hydrophobic, and "non-stick" (making it handy for frying food), but it's also immune to a host of corrosive superacids. Even its chemical structure resembles a fortified bulwark.
 
Bob
@DavidPostill Yes, that is one of the trademarked names for PTFE.
 
Yes, I thought so as well.
 
who are we protecting this from ? :)
 
Bob
...but the site is down now :(
 
if it's normal people, just cutting the pins will do
 
12:06 PM
So we need a PTFE bucket for disk and the acid.
 
if it's the govt, it's too late :)
 
Yeah, they read your disk while it is being manufactured ;)
 
:)
at least they can afford to store all the information!
 
Bob
> But I have to admit, I'd never thought much about the next analog of hydrogen peroxide. Instead of having two oxygens in there, why not three: HOOOH? Indeed, why not? This is a general principle that can be extended to many other similar situations. Instead of being locked in a self-storage unit with two rabid wolverines, why not three? Instead of having two liters of pyridine poured down your trousers, why not three? And so on - it's a liberating thought. It's true that adding more oxygen-oxygen bonds to a compound will eventually liberate the tiles from your floor and your windows from
:D
> These thoughts were prompted by a recent paper in JACS that describes a new route to "dihydrogen trioxide", which I suppose is a more systematic name than "hydrogen perperoxide", my own choice. Colloquially, I would imagine that the compound is known as "Oh, @#&!", substituted with the most heartfelt word available when you realize that you've actually made the stuff.
 
@Bob Exposed the components and smashed away. Sounded like a maraca afterwards when I shook it.
and it was a pretty small hdd
2.5"
 
12:18 PM
'Morning'
 
"Morning"
 
As to all the chemical stuff: Who else reads things I will not work with
Hmm, fails to load for me. Moving to the intern et archive
"hydrogen perperoxide": Colloquially, I would imagine that the compound is known as "Oh, @#&!", substituted with the most heartfelt word available when you realize that you've actually made the stuff.
 
Is there an echo in here? ;)
 
12:34 PM
Nope. just a top top bottom reader (and a top to bottom responder before getting to the bottom)
 
1:20 PM
Wheee
New Ziggo users only het IPv6 Dutch - tweakers
Finally
 
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