Root Access

12:24 AM

...ffs

trying to grab apache ab, which is only available through httpd, which is only available for Windows through an MSI or by source

would it have killed them to provide a zip package or just the binary by itself?

apparently, yes

@PatoSáinz yea, sure, run java programs on a phone. programs probably designed for desktop. that'll work so well

Anonymous

@Bob oh sure, desktops and phones are sooo different

Thor

12:53 AM

@Bob, @PatoSáinz in the context defined, if you're looking to do that sort of testing you're most likely not going to care for any user interface beyond a prompt.

allquixotic

!!help parse

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic parse: Returns result of "parsing" message according to the my mini-macro capabilities (see online docs)

Bob

@Thor You're likely going to have other issues trying to run it on a phone.

Not least of which would be the rather limited memory.

@allquixotic An EC2 instance would likely only be cheaper if you only needed to run it once or twice, though.

Doesn't even have to be long-running, run it a couple of times and you're already looking at a fairly high bill.

ekaj

multicore supercomputer... =p

@Bob you can get an Amazon EC2 instance for free as long as you don't go over the reqs

I think it does require a credit card, but no charge is made if you stay within the limits

allquixotic

@Bob $10 or so is still cheaper than what you'd have to shell out to get that much compute with that many cores on a VPS for a whole month though

it really does depend on how many times he's going to need to test this

and over how long of a period

OTOH if he only needs to test it for an hour or two on one isolated occasion per month, or once per several months, on-demand is still cheaper

Bob

1:07 AM

@ekaj The free instance is only the first year, and is a micro instance.

I don't think it even has two cores, let alone 4+

allquixotic

he can also test it on many many more cores on EC2 than would be affordable to test it on with a VPS or dedi -- if his code is multithreaded Java with the potential for deadlocks and such, there's a decent chance that it'll work on 4 cores but may fail on more cores

ekaj

True about the cores, I guess it wouldn't meet those reqs, but an instance is an instance.

allquixotic

a professor once told me he wrote some really hairy multithreaded code in Java that worked fine up until 8 cores, but broke on a system with 8-way SMP (at the time that was basically state of the art, Sun Microsystems hardware XD)

Bob

@allquixotic yea, you aren't going to get more than 8 on a cheap VPS

and that'll probably run about $3 per month

ekaj

Some of the places on lowendbox are pretty sketchy

Bob

1:11 AM

@ekaj generally fine for random testing

just don't expect to host production on them..

allquixotic

@Bob I was looking at the EC2 prices and how they've changed, and I couldn't help but laugh at what I learned: storage is still ridiculously expensive... the most expensive instances they sell, by far, are the ones with lots of storage. the GPU compute instance with an NVIDIA GRID GPU is cheap by comparison

ekaj

I just format an old box in my house and do whatever =p

Bob

@allquixotic which is pretty stupid

storage is cheap elsewhere

well, compared to most other hardware

ekaj

I dunno, those sata cables

allquixotic

yeah but in the dedi world, almost without exception, if you start talking terabytes (even just a few), hosting providers are like ":OOOOO why would you want all that?!?!?! ok, you can pay me $1000/month now"

Bob

1:12 AM

@ekaj my main use for a VPS is for network access

@allquixotic apparently even a SATA 1 TB drive costs a firstborn

allquixotic

lol

Bob

I highly doubt they're any enterprise-grade drives, either

allquixotic

and speaking of progress (or lack thereof), Hetzner downgraded (!) their standard disk size offerings from 3 TB earlier to 2 TB now

they still offer 3s I think, but they're extra $$$$

to the tune of 25 euro per month per disk

Bob

@allquixotic actually, that raises a good question

why are drives getting more expensive now? o.O

even in-store

I guess they might be shifting more towards SSDs

ekaj

"I'm sorry, but no. An analogy would be to staple a fish and a cheetah together and expect to get the fastest underwater animal."

5

Bob

1:14 AM

but it's not like HDD demand has really dropped

allquixotic

I have no fricking clue, maybe resource exhaustion, scarcity of factories, fewer manufacturers producing HDDs now that SSDs are all the rage...

Bob

@allquixotic but the SSD manufactures != HDD manufacturers...

I don't think WD and Seagate even make SSDs

Anonymous

isn't hetzner the most low-end provider ever?

allquixotic

I know the Thailand tsunami did a lot of damage to the HDD industry, but are we still feeling those effects?!

Anonymous

with awful customer support

allquixotic

1:15 AM

I mean I spent about $500 USD in mid-2012 on 4 TB drives for my desktop and I think they're like 25% more expensive now than they were then

Bob

@allquixotic that was three years ago

allquixotic

@PatoSáinz no, they're really not; there are a lot more low-end providers that provide worse customer service and much worse hardware

Bob

@allquixotic heh

Opteron 248s anyone?

allquixotic

I've been with Hetzner for like 5 years.... they are one of the best value providers in the sense that you get the most for your money.... but they're not low-end

ekaj

see: lowendbox.com

Bob

1:16 AM

they'd have to pay me to get me to use them

allquixotic

low-end is fricking, Atoms and Pentium Ds and Opteron 248s

Bob

@ekaj hetzner does dedis

and the LEB dedi providers aren't all that bad, either

ekaj

@Bob I was referring to "
no, they're really not; there are a lot more low-end providers that provide worse customer service and much worse hardware"

Bob

it's the ones on WHT that are ridiculous

@allquixotic those are on WHT, not LEB

allquixotic

their customer service is okay, if you can reach someone who speaks English ;p

Bob

1:17 AM

I don't think even LEB accepts them

allquixotic

@Bob ah

I wonder if those Opteron 248s were even legally purchased, or raided from a closed down building lol

Bob

@allquixotic the worst I've seen on LEB are L5420s for $45-$50 per month

allquixotic

Somalian pirates? :P

Bob

which beats O248s by a large margin

allquixotic

@Bob which is pretty standard

Bob

1:18 AM

"large margin" meaning lightyears

allquixotic

there are tons of providers doing dual L5420 for $45-50 atm

Bob

you could throttle a L5420 down to 50% on one core and it'd still win

allquixotic

and honestly they're not terrible. they're on the low end of what I'd consider to be modern

and you get plenty of threads too, which is always nice

Bob

@ekaj and again, lowendbox isn't THAT bad

there's at least some filtering

Jeremy

@allquixotic Im formatting now

ekaj

1:19 AM

Some of the providers can be

Bob

lowendtalk and webhostingtalk, where people can post offers without any filtering or review? yea, those are crap, usually

ekaj

webhostingtalk.. meh

Bob

WHT is especially bad, since LET at least has people trying them and commenting

@allquixotic you never did try opensimulator on the 24 threads :P

ekaj

I posted on WHT once and got like 5 PMs for dedi/VPS server offers in my inbox

Bob

@ekaj as with anything. but you can usually get a pretty good idea by picking LEB providers that are somewhat established and have good reviews

allquixotic

1:21 AM

@Bob -_-

too comfortable with hetzner at the moment to consider moving ;p

Bob

@allquixotic don't have to move, just try and see how it performs :P

allquixotic

@ekaj they say you should report people who do that

eh..

Bob

the curiosity is killing me

allquixotic

@Bob -_-

ekaj

Orly? I didn't know that, I just ignored them

allquixotic

1:22 AM

time is a limiting factor atm, as it always is

Bob

I'm considering setting up litecoin mining just to use up those idle cycles :P

allquixotic

:D

so litecoin is what all the kool kids use nao? :3

Bob

@allquixotic well, it's better for CPU-based mining anyway

and I'm not gonna try to ask the provider to stick a GPU in the box, that'd probably be $150/month, at least

Jeremy

@allquixotic should I make the new osx partition the same type we made the ext hdd earlier? Or just what osx recommends

Braiam

yaws

allquixotic

1:25 AM

@Jeremy take what it recommends

@Bob did you see cate? :D lolol

ekaj

CATE > doge

allquixotic

!!learn cate '<>http://i.stack.imgur.com/8RN4i.jpg'

Bob

ugh

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic Command cate learned

Thor

very picture

Bob

1:27 AM

tomcat crashing in production

in one production environment

yay

allquixotic

@Thor wow photoshop

ekaj

I want to do this: imgur.com/gallery/uqmUs

it's perfect

Thor

@allquixotic such express, many result

Bob

O.O

6

Q: Graphic corruption followed by message: "Too many 16-bit programs are running"

For reference here are my system specs: Cooler Master Sniper Scout tower Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 Intel G33 Motherboard 6GB DDR2 RAM Radeon HD 4870 GPU 1TB SATA Drive 7200 RPM OCZ ZT Series 650W PSU Windows Vista 64-bit Home Premium I'm having an issue where at certain time...

@allquixotic looks like graphics drivers have found a new failure mode :D

ekaj

I don't think I've left my house in a week

my town is so exciting

allquixotic

1:53 AM

►

ekaj

I have some of the strangest videos in my YouTube history thanks to this place.

allquixotic

@ekaj what?????????????? hahahahahahahahahahahhaa

Anonymous

heh most of my youtube history is Monstercat+IG Daily+Nerdcubed

Anonymous

largely monstercat

Anonymous

2:27 AM

►

Anonymous

i'd love to have this

ekaj

0

Q: ssh reverse tunneling via putty thru 3 boxes - connection timeout

the three boxes are My laptop ( windows ) A jumpbox ( linux ) The server ( linux ) My web application is running in nodejs port 3000 on the server. I should access the web app in my laptop by using the below URL _http://localhost:3000 What I did till now is : From my laptop , I used ...

ssh putty ssh-tunnel

Jeremy

2:39 AM

@allquixotic Successfully installed OSX. Now installing updates, then I'll see if the backup works. Thanks for all your help

ekaj

brother gave me 400 for books.. they're only going to come out at like 180...

Bob

0

Q: How can I turn off internet for roommates that haven't paid the bill this month?

I have several roommates who split my internet bill with me each month. On occasion they forget to pay me, and I have to pester them for the money. If after 3 days of pestering they still haven't paid, I create a firewall rule in my unix based router that blocks traffic to their mac address. Th...

networking firewall pfsense

can anyone say "tech solution to a human problem"?

ekaj

that's similar to the most upvoted question on SU, however

which I think is a result of migration?

Bob

@ekaj that may be where I got that phrase from

Anonymous

0

A: How can I turn off internet for roommates that haven't paid the bill this month?

Make a bash script which adds restrictive iptables rule. Put this script in monthly cron. Inside the bash script make a condition - if file ~/do_not_block_friends exists and its modification time in this month period (stat -c %y filename) - do not run the script. Once they pay you do touch ~/do...

ekaj

2:48 AM

ah =p

Anonymous

@Bob i am not able to understand your emotions

Bob

@PatoSáinz ? :S

ekaj

Pretty sure I've entered some credit card info incorrectly on a few sites and I still got the product

not the number, just date and cvv

Anonymous

3:19 AM

Backdoor found in Linksys, Netgear Routers

ekaj

3:40 AM

Nice

now I can maybe get into my brother's router I forgot the password to

ekaj

3:51 AM

Actually he sites a SuperUser post as one of the answers to his questions

"THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 32764):
Eloi Vanderbeken wrote those files. As long as you retain this notice you
can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some day, and you think
this stuff is worth it, you can buy me many beers in return.

Bob

@PatoSáinz hm. I think I have a dg834 sitting in a box

ekaj

I have a WNGR614

*WGR614

except 32764 isn't open for me.

and I left a telnet tunnel open to my inner network..

ekaj

4:31 AM

@allquixotic www.news.com.au/technology/back-to-the-future-this-man-interviews-his-12-year-ol‌d-self/story-e6frfro0-1226418770516/#

Wellll the link used to have a video, nevermind then

Bob

@allquixotic I wonder how much of a performance boost I can gain in FF stable by recompiling with -march=native

@ekaj ewww murdoch site

Hennes

5:41 AM

Morning

ekaj

Morning

Anonymous

5:58 AM

nighty night

Bob

O.O

366

A: Divide a number by 3 without using *, /, +, -, % operators

Idiotic conditions call for an idiotic solution: #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> int main() { FILE * fp=fopen("temp.dat","w+b"); int number=12346; int divisor=3; char * buf = calloc(number,1); fwrite(buf,number,1,fp); rewind(fp); int result=fread(buf,divisor,n...

Bob

6:11 AM

wtf

22

A: Divide a number by 3 without using *, /, +, -, % operators

C, 167503724710 Here's my solution to the problem. I admit it is unlikely to win a strict code golf competition, but it doesn't use any tricks to indirectly call built-in division functionality, it is written in portable C (as the original Stack Overflow question asked for), it works perfectly f...

ekaj

what the hell lol

talk about a job interview question

allquixotic

7:21 AM

god DAMN it... why is it necessary to jump through an absolutely insane number of hoops just to get a code signing certificate? this is hideous!

support.comodo.com/…

I swear, if a CA made a code signing process that was measurably less painful than this, they'd make billions overnight

Boris_yo

One Must Fall 2097 has pretty nice music for 1994, isn't it?

allquixotic

@Boris_yo yeah, best music in a game

Boris_yo

@allquixotic The one that plays in second stage reminds me of "2 Unlimited - No Limit"

►

Bob

7:58 AM

@allquixotic StartSSL was very easy

but that was for SSL

not code signing :\

allquixotic

@Bob even StartSSL requires a notary for code signing

and their server has an SSL error so I can't even login

ekaj

8:25 AM

That's a lot of documentation

namecheap hosting.. meh

Two questions, superuser.com/questions/185146/… and superuser.com/questions/695507/… ... duplicates?

The checksum is a good idea

Bob

8:42 AM

...paypal

how the fuck do I set the fucking credit card as the fucking primary fucking source of fucking payment?

as you may be able to tell, I am slightly annoyed

apparently you have to remove the bank account entirely (?????????)

barlop

iin the meantime you could ask in webapps.st... or call them

i'm pissed off a lot 'cos GUIs keep changing for this and that

Bob

> Win tickets to see Beyonce in the Mrs Carter Show World Tour. -- my bank

uh, yea, thanks... :S

(that was via the "secure messaging" as part of the internet banking)

barlop

paypal.com/gb/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/home you can click "call us" and log in and it gives a number

Bob

@barlop Ya, I sent an email instead.

Might call them later, but I honestly don't have time for that right now.

Still, it's ridiculous how hard it is to do something so simple.

barlop

this is how it is now with GUIs changing a lot

yahoo mail changed their GUI in recent months

Bob

8:50 AM

@barlop this hasn't changed in a while

I don't think they ever had that option.

That, or it was buried deep down.

barlop

well I don't bother even trying to remember where options are in web GUIs 'cos they can change. And my memory is such that I don't forget

so i'd rather forget than remember a potentially temporary gui till my death bed

Boris_yo

9:24 AM

Should I use pads when I want to clamp mini-HDMI adapter in vice? I need to take some material off to expose contact more.

Journeyman Geek

9:54 AM

erm, that sounds like a bad idea in general

Oliver Salzburg

@Boris_yo Yes, steel wool pads!

Journeyman Geek

if you must do it yeah

Boris_yo

@JourneymanGeek freaktab.com/…

@OliverSalzburg Did I tell you Happy New Year?

Oliver Salzburg

10:09 AM

@Boris_yo Don't know. Happy new year to you as well though :)

Boris_yo

@OliverSalzburg Have you moved to different house?

Gowtham

goodreads.com/challenges/1914-2014-reading-challenge

nice

Oliver Salzburg

@Boris_yo Yes

Boris_yo

10:43 AM

@OliverSalzburg Congratz

@Gowtham What about it?

@OliverSalzburg Why steel wool exactly? Why not rags?

Journeyman Geek

@Boris_yo: I was away for a few days, so I might have missed it

Boris_yo

@JourneymanGeek Missed what?

I will cut according to this distance mesured.

Journeyman Geek

anything said over new year ;p

ahh

@Boris_yo: you shouldn't need a vice for this

Boris_yo

The size of cut is equal to the size between HDMI port's contact and tablet's surface.

Journeyman Geek

just a VERY sharp knife.

and if you overdo it, nothibg wrong

barlop

10:52 AM

@Boris_yo are you making a joke here saying "Mine is .023622 inches"

as in, do you have a tool to measure it that accurately? or are you trying to make a joke?

Journeyman Geek

you obviously need to make a laser guided precision jig for this!

ErraticFox

Mornin'

Journeyman Geek

11:11 AM

lo

ErraticFox

Howdy.

Boris_yo

11:36 AM

@JourneymanGeek Last time I did something, I cut fraction of finger's end.

@barlop Thanks for pointing out. 0 was unecessary so I corrected it. I do not have tool to measure it accurately. I could use ruler though for estimated length.

Journeyman Geek

@Boris_yo: that builds charecter.

Boris_yo

@JourneymanGeek ?

ErraticFox

Can someone help me understand substrings? I'm confused on how it counts them.

Journeyman Geek

what language?

ErraticFox

JS

Journeyman Geek

11:50 AM

ahh

then not too sure. I assume it starts with index 0 and not 1?

ErraticFox

yea

Journeyman Geek

thats about how far I remember XD

Boris_yo

@ErraticFox Teach me JS

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek were you drunk when you learnt JS?

ErraticFox

Like it says "Get burgers out of Hamburgers" so I type "console.log("Hamburgers".substring(4,10));" and it says it's 3,10 not 4,10 even though, the b is the 4th character.

Sorry, don't know how to format code.

Anonymous

11:54 AM

   you markdown pleb

ErraticFox

:(

Bob

@ErraticFox example please

ErraticFox

codecademy.com/courses/getting-started-v2/3/…

Bob

@ErraticFox substring(firstchar, length)

Hamburgers
0123456789

you want 3 with a length of 7

ErraticFox

OH 0

I KEEP FORGETTING TO COUNT 0

ty @Bob

Bob

11:56 AM

wait shit

Journeyman Geek

@ErraticFox: I DID ASK ABOUT THE INDEX.

Bob

sorry, the second param is the last char, not length

ErraticFox

Wait

but 10 works.

Bob

ya

sorry

most other languages use length

!!mdn substring

ChatBot John Cavil

@Bob developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/…

Bob

11:57 AM

> The substring() method returns a subset of a string between one index and another, or through the end of the string.

str.substring(indexA[, indexB])

Anonymous

Bzr is dying; Emacs needs to move

Bob

> substring extracts characters from indexA up to but not including indexB.

ErraticFox

You've completely lost me @Bob

Bob

@ErraticFox So, 3, 10 is right.

@ErraticFox well, the last char is the 9th char

ErraticFox

I know this, but how is it not 4?

Bob

11:58 AM

@ErraticFox ...it's 0-based

ErraticFox

but it says it's correct when I put 10

3,10 it says its correct

Bob

H a m b u r g e r s
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

@ErraticFox Yes.

> substring extracts characters from indexA up to but not including indexB.

Read the MDN doc, it's very helpful.

ErraticFox

So if I put 10, it'll work, but 9 wont?

Bob

(up to but not including 10) = 10 - 1 = 9

(up to but not including 9) = 9 - 1 = 8

ErraticFox

SO.

Bob

11:59 AM

...just try it out

ErraticFox

9 wont work, because it doesn't include itself?

It'll only include 8 and down?

Bob

ya.

ErraticFox

But indexA will include itself?

Bob

You can open a JS console on Firefox or Chrome with ctrl+shift+J

that might work in IE too, but F12 should also work

ErraticFox

THAT IS THE MOST ABSURD FREAKING THING EVER

WHY DOES A DO IT, BUT NOT B?

Bob

12:01 PM

@ErraticFox I'm more used to other languages that have the second param specify the length :P

@ErraticFox Fairly standard, actually. From one up to another.

It's not just in programming; it's also used a fair bit in maths.

And you'll see it again with array indices.

ErraticFox

I just don't see why indexA includes istelf but B doesn't...

Bob

@ErraticFox Accept it and move on.

(also, because it's similar to the behaviour of arrays)

ErraticFox

I understand how to do it, but I'd like to know why one and not the other.

But why would other arrays do that also?

Bob

@ErraticFox BECAUSE THEY FELT LIKE IT

you'll find that explains a lot in programming

ErraticFox

WHO IS THE MAD MAN BEHIND THIS MONSTROSITY!?

Bob

12:03 PM

other languages do it different ways

@ErraticFox probably adopted from C

ErraticFox

Dude, C is out to get me.

Bob

it's fairly idiomatic to do for (int i = 0; i < length; i++) to loop through arrays

where length - 1 is actually the highest array index

ErraticFox

If I learn some JS, would I have a better time trying to understand Java later?

Bob

why they chose that for substring? don't ask me, I'm not a JS dev by choice

@ErraticFox uhh... well, any language would help, and JS's syntax is C-like, much like Java

ErraticFox

Might as well go over to overflow.

Bob

12:05 PM

but apart from the same roots in C and the name, they're not much alike

C# and Java are fairly close

Java and JS? not so much

barlop

seriously if you are getting stuck on a substring thing that you can easily figure out whether it's inclusive or exclusive bty experimenting, then you're goign to struggle regardless.

Bob

@barlop experimenting is used to confirm

use the docs where possible

barlop

substring(1,3) is fairly self explanatory.

Anonymous

@barlop you are fucking helpful

barlop

or (0,3)

Bob

12:06 PM

the docs will also point out any pissible pitfalls

barlop

yeah i'm not against using docs

ErraticFox

@barlop I said, I understand on how to do it, but I'm wanting to know the reasoning.

Bob

@barlop no it's not; I would've expected 3 to specify the length, not the exclusive end index (coming from C#) :P

@barlop always refer to docs first and when possible, experiment later

Journeyman Geek

nope, its not dea

Bob

@ErraticFox you'll find a lot of things are essentially arbitrary choice

barlop

12:07 PM

@Bob yeah but it's self explanatory that it's either inclusive or exclusive. you can figure it out either from docs or from experiment.

Journeyman Geek

the DOID stopped working for a while ;p

Bob

they could have done it the other way if they wanted

but they didn't want to, so live with it or invent your own language

@JourneymanGeek so, DOD for a bit? :P

@ErraticFox You can equally reason for either way. The exclusive end index is more familiar to experienced programmers and consistent within the language. The inclusive end index is easier for beginners, but becomes a problem later because it's inconsistent with the rest of the language.

Journeyman Geek

one could say this, yes.

barlop

@ErraticFox if a language wants to specify a subsring ojf a string, how do you think it could do it? it could say substring(0,4) will start at position 0 and count 4 characters. 0 could mean that is character at position 0 i.e. the first character. or it could be the position 0, and count 3 characters you get 3 chars outputted. There are many was it is not rocket science to figure out the reasoning they used

and if you don't understand the docs explanation you can always try it out and you'll see what (0,1) does and so on and you'll figure out what the docs are talking about.

but you have to stop thinking about poo poo like you did yesterday. Maturity is only one factor though.

and it could say (0,2) means from character 0 to character 2 inclusively. i.e. 3 characters. And that is not them being difficult, that is because in computing they count the first character as character 0. That is computing 101.

Oliver Salzburg

> I know that Im being too constant with this issue but the things is that I'm totally stuck with this problem and I really need to have it fix and working in my computer for major reasons.

ErraticFox

12:20 PM

Speaking of poo poo, I'm so glad I let that fart off over the toilet about 4 minutes ago.

Or that'd been a mess...

Journeyman Geek

-1

Q: cronjob for creating a two fiiles with 2 GB of size each

I need to create a cron job that runs every hour. This cron job should create two files, each 2GB, one should be created from /dev/urandom and the other one from /dev/zero and should be written to a specific filesystem/directory. How would I do this?

linux dd cronjob

this has me confused.

@OliverSalzburg: heh. MAJOR REASONS.

ErraticFox

I GET IT

OMG

I GET IT GUYS.

Beginners often don't count zero, therefore the need of not including indexB

"Good job ErraticFox!" would be helpful... :\

Anonymous

12:42 PM

no

Anonymous

you're an awful programmer and you should stop now

Anonymous

IT'S A JOKE @ErraticFox <3

ErraticFox

!! maybe

ChatBot John Cavil

Bob

1:02 PM

...I have no idea what's going on in here.

Is @allquixotic here? Perhaps he can inject some sanity.

ErraticFox

No @allquixotic for you @Bob

Bob

:(

ErraticFox

Him and @barlop would not quit talking about something to college.

FOR LIKE 5 HOURS.

I didn't know if they was discussing or debating.

ErraticFox

1:31 PM

SNOOWWWWWW!!! :D

barlop

@ErraticFox You wrote "Beginners often don't count zero, therefore the need of not including indexB" <-- where did you get that that was their reason? If you mean substring with only one index is just for beginners, If you read that as an official reason then ok but i'd be surprised. And SERIOUSLY?! It is convenient to be able to just give one parameter if you are want the first character. I'd like to see a reference for your crazy claim

ErraticFox

as a side note for beginners, the index starts count at 0 (That's why sometimes the not including... misuderstanging for the second parameter.) — Roko C. Buljan 1 hour ago

barlop

@ErraticFox did anybody else here misunderstand that and think index doesn't start from zero, or only you? 'cos i'm not clear who you are addressing that clarification to

ErraticFox

It's impossible to tell this.

Because I didn't just gather a bunch of people in a room that are beginners and ask this.

Anonymous

x-posting from the comms room, but does someone here have a home office?

Bob

1:44 PM

@PatoSáinz uh.. after a fashion :P

Anonymous

@Bob lol what do you mean?

Bob

:12942416 wut