« first day (1185 days earlier)      last day (981 days later) » 

2:00 PM
I mean, I got it as a LQP review just a minute ago.
 
@M.A.R. Why would you want peanut butter?
 
Here's the proposal I found interesting: Tweaking the privileges to reduce the negative effect of the HNQ, at a cost of making it harder to be a genuine new users.
13
Q: Prevent 101 rep users from voting and commenting until 105 rep

SklivvzThe problem As a site, we slightly diverge from the SE standards: We have unique rules regarding voting, for example unreferenced questions should be downvoted to zero no matter how much we agree with their conclusions. Our format allows us to tackle controversial topics in a civilized manner,...

 
(obviously they'd be GIFVs)
 
I want to discuss a SmokeDetector message. If I reply to it, am I going to trigger autmatic actions?
 
2:02 PM
tpu- by MAR
 
@SmokeDetector k
@Oddthinking depends on what your reply starts with.
 
@Oddthinking This could be pretty useful for sites with an HNQ problem, like TWP, Academia and Skeptics. Thus, you can expect it to be implemented in less than 300 years
 
Okay I won't dare.
 
@Oddthinking Not actions done on the post, but on the message
 
Just as long as it doesn't start with "k", "v", "n", or "f", you should be fine
 
2:03 PM
SmokeDetector said: [ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating words in answer: Spring @Value("${}") often null by test on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan) a few minutes ago.
 
@Oddthinking just start with comment ...
 
I checked the post - yes it was garbage. Then what happens?
 
@M.A.R. I disagree. It would be pretty awful.
 
@Oddthinking if your message starts with "why" it will explain why regardless of what you are actually trying to do
 
Flag as rude/abusive, then reply to Smokey with ''k''
 
2:04 PM
I get that a lot
 
Or ''tpu-''
 
or install FDSC and don't reply
 
@Oddthinking Two options. You can give feedback in here (using "k", "f", "n", or "v"), or you can use FDSC (a userscript, check the Charcoal-SE Github repo) to send feedback via the flag dialog
 
@JanDvorak Why?
 
So do actually raise a direct flag/delete vote, or does the bot do that after you tell it "k"?
 
2:05 PM
I comment a ton on Skeptics
 
Didn't we already have a getting-started-with-Smokey bookmark?
@JanDvorak Two edits aren't that hard
 
@Oddthinking It depends. The bot may autoflag a post (raising a single flag) if it meets certain criteria. But you should flag it yourself, too.
(assuming it's deserving of a flag)
 
@Oddthinking FDSC automatically posts feedback to Metasmoke when you flag a post, plus it adds a "fp" flag option to the flag dialog, which only sends feedback to Metasmoke.
 
OK, we have bookmarks such as this but not bookmarks for how to get started with Smokey. Facepalm
 
@M.A.R. times 100 sites. Point taken, though.
But then again - what if we just require five rep to ask, requiring users to familiarize themselves with markdown before they can use it to siphon off information from answerers?
 
2:09 PM
@Oddthinking worth reading charcoal-se.org/flagging for info about automatic flagging. Other than what's there, the bot doesn't cast flags - it's down to humans.
 
Yeah, the bot mainly is here to say "hey you might wanna look at this"
 
!!/test-a GS RichCopy 360
 
> Would not be caught as an answer.
 
Cool. I am reading github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/wiki/Commands, but it isn't a beginner's guide.
 
!!/blacklist-keyword gs\Wrichcopy\W360
 
2:11 PM
@Glorfindel Blacklisted gs\Wrichcopy\W360
 
@Oddthinking that it ain't. We probably should have one of those, really.
 
CI on 2848646 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...
 
@Oddthinking no, it isn't. Luckily, most beginners don't have privileges and don't need to know the commands.
 
Restart: API quota is 3340.
 
But I agree that there should be a Charcoal HQ 101.
 
2:13 PM
@Oddthinking For what its worth, you do have privileges actually
Moderators get them automatically
us mortals have to apply
 
@Glorfindel Right, but I have already figured that the safety is off for me because I am a mod, so I am being careful.
 
I guess the Privileges page in the wiki is a slightly better intro
as is feedback guidance
 
@Oddthinking smart guy (m/f)
 
May be more digestible then the very technical github summary
 
So the basic story is: Rules-based engine writes to chat room. Users in chat room tell it whether it did a good job or not, for feedback, and then go take action directly on the site. More than 4 or 5 (or whatever the threshold) of you with accounts on the site means the action happens pretty fast.
 
2:16 PM
Basicly
 
Nice
 
We have a web dashboard that records all reports and the feedback we give for data analysis
 
@Oddthinking that, plus autoflagging.
 
And if enough of our automatic rules are tripped, sometimes the system uses one of our accounts (at random) to cast flags automatically
 
@Oddthinking Yep, plus sometimes when a post is really bad the bot uses a random user's account out of those who have opted-in to automatically cast a flag.
 
2:17 PM
@Glorfindel Right. I read that too.
 
Plus, the !!/lick command is the best command in teh worldz
 
Also
 
So I may not be here but the system will use one of my flags on a post it thinks is super-likely spam
 
!!/blame
 
@Mego It's M.A.R.'s fault.
 
2:17 PM
You must use it at all times . . .
@SmokeDetector (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
currently past statistics over at least 1000 posts per reason need to show that a filter is at least 99,5% accurate before auto flags are being cast.
 
And we still cast only one flag, we don't (and never will) automatically nuke a post.
 
@Glorfindel That was my next question!
 
@Oddthinking Also, any privileged user can report a post - causing smokedetector to report it as "Manually reported post"
We may go 2-5 flags automatically eventually pending CM approval
but we'll never 1-hit nuke a post
 
@Glorfindel That's a good point - I guess site mod flags are never used?
 
2:19 PM
@Mego correct. All the mods have it set up to not use their auto flags on sites where they have a diamond.
 
Not sure what this counts as.
 
@Magisch which should probably be automated, but still.
 
naa- by Mego
tpu- by Magisch
 
2:20 PM
I used spam
it's kinda spamish
borderline though
 
@Glorfindel I was in the middle of typing up a similar response
 
@Randal'Thor I flagged it as NAA a couple of hours ago (from the review queue).
 
@Magisch There's no obvious advertising of a product or service, so I went with NAA.
 
NAA.
 
@SmokeDetector WTH is that
 
2:21 PM
@Oddthinking If you want to give feedback to the bot, you need to reply with either k, n, v, or f (for spam/rude/abusive, NAA, vandalism, or false positive)
 
@SmokeDetector naa-
 
@Oddthinking: It seems this is your first time sending feedback to SmokeDetector. Make sure you've read the guidance on your privileges, the available commands, and what feedback to use in different situations.
 
@Mego ... or use the other shortcuts
 
@Mego v is vandalism, not VLQ
 
You can also use the sd <feedback> version, but you have to skip over non-report messages (like the feedback confirmation messages) with -
@ArtOfCode Err yeah that
 
2:22 PM
@Mego My first answer was just talking to you guys with my opinion. Then I thought, hey, why not take part.
 
@ArtOfCode Is there a shortcut for VLQ too?
 
@Oddthinking Oh, it seemed like you were trying to give feedback to the bot
 
Or are Charcoal people generally of the "VLQ flag should be abolished" persuasion?
 
But given this was manually reported, what good is giving feedback to the bot. It doesn't have a rule for it.
 
@Randal'Thor Doesn't seem to be one
 
2:24 PM
@Randal'Thor we have NAA, which seems to be enough, though there is talk of expanding it to questions
 
I don't know about the persuasion status, but the bot doesn't (yet) have a VLQ feedback status
 
@Oddthinking We can build feedback based off of manual reports to automatically catch future instances
 
Nah, VLQ's fine.
It helps flag stuff other flags don't help flag
 
@Oddthinking it does contribute to weight calculation on metasmoke, though, which in turn contributes to autoflagging
 
Of course, some stuff just can't really be caught by automated checks, so we still have to rely on manual reporting somewhat
 
2:25 PM
@Oddthinking There have been a number of manual reports that weren't actually spam, but an error on the reporter's part
 
@Mego You are going to automate detection of spurned lovers trying to contact their exes? Wow!
 
@ArtOfCode no, it doesn't (the second part). Manually reported posts will always have a weight <100 and are never autoflagged.
 
When you've had a rough day, everything seems like spam
4
 
@Oddthinking That specific example isn't a great one, but we've built filters for other stuff that started from a manual report
2
 
@Glorfindel true, I forgot we don't rescan manual reports
Probably should to be honest
 
2:28 PM
meh, I think we should ask for a higher API quota and scan posts more quickly.
 
Also that
another reason we're pinging CMs
 
Only the cases where humans out-ninja Smokey are worth rescanning, and those reported during the rare instances that Smokey is down.
 
@ArtOfCode I think it's been some time since SOCVR went crazy with manual reports. And the TP rate should be close to 100 percent recently
 
@M.A.R. Oh, did it ever? I don't remember that
 
Query: instead of calculating weight using every post caught by reason, is it worth using only the last x?
 
2:30 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body: Alpha X Boost For nerve transmission to work efficaciously by EmmaDeangela on graphicdesign.SE
tpu- by Glorfindel
 
@SmokeDetector autoflagged
 
@ArtOfCode That post was automatically flagged, using flags from: Undo.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body, repeated URL at end of long post: Xtest Muscle Reviews & Xtest Muscle Scam– Increases Androgenic hormonal or testosterone Stages by hamedfiras76 on apple.SE
tpu- by Glorfindel
 
There ya go, system in action. Undo isn't even awake yet.
3
 
@Kyll probably the bottom of this page.
Which makes me wonder: can't we base the weight on the TP/FP ratio of the last, say 6 months?
 
You aren't already?
 
2:33 PM
IDK, Art can probably tell us more.
 
Art tell us more
 
That's what I was talking about
We currently use all time
 
3 mins ago, by ArtOfCode
Query: instead of calculating weight using every post caught by reason, is it worth using only the last x?
^ I missed that
 
Might be worth using X posts or X weeks
 
@Glorfindel Weird... This and this most definitely seem TP to me. One is clearly insulting users, the other has a porn link (judging from the URL). Oh well, t'was 10 months ago. Also left you have your combo =p
 
2:34 PM
thx Kyll
 
@Kyll The former isn't much TP-ish
The latter, however
 
@M.A.R. Meh, I would red-flag it.
 
@M.A.R. Really? Look at the username ;p
 
This is offensive in Russian it seems, but yeah NAA
 
@Kyll KYS = kill your self.
I'd red flag that.
 
2:36 PM
@Glorfindel Urgh
So yeah, weird results... I'd red flag most of that. Maybe things changed in the past few months
 
@DavidPostill Well, that guy is a total f^%$#er, but that's mod-flaggable, not red-flaggable
 
@Kyll #2 fixed
 
@Oddthinking We're a bunch of programmers with entirely too much thinking in regexes. We can automate detecting a whole lot. We use our giant queryable data set of all reports and feedbacks to dry-test new filters, and we adapt the filters constantly.
 
@ArtOfCode Ah, thanks. Well there's a bunch more on here I would red flag
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: CRUD Operations In VUE And VUEX by ajaynmd on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)
tpu- by Mego
 
2:39 PM
@Kyll admin report 'em, I'll get to them later
 
@Kyll Lots of poop on the last one
@SmokeDetector K
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body: Staminon claim to stave by Hibanoor on apple.SE
tpu- by tripleee
 
Can't we increase the number of autoflags to 2 or 3 when post weight is more than, say, 300?
 
@ArtOfCode Will do
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, bad keyword in username: How to buy FIFA 18 coins without getting banned? by FIFA18coins on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)
 
2:41 PM
funky, the slow keyboard shortcuts prevented me from actually flagging that as spam, but somehow FDSC still got my feedback
 
tpu- by Glorfindel
 
@M.A.R. Until we get CM permission, no
 
@M.A.R. the general idea was to scale the # of autoflags with the post weight, but we first need permission.
 
Nice, so I can expect this to be implemented in 6-8 decades
I'll prolly live by then
 
@M.A.R. Pops hasn't responded yet
 
2:43 PM
He most definitely will, in a time that would geologically be considered small
 
Sep 19 '16 at 15:21, by Pops
@ArtOfCode me to schedule a chat with Tim in the next couple days, because we've been working on different bits of quality stuff and may possibly have new info for each other.
That was around 4 months ago
 
@Magisch Duh, it's Neptune days
Wait, not sure if those are really long, lemme check
 
@M.A.R. 16 hours
You probably mean Venus or Mercury.
 
Shucks
CURSE YOU GOD OF SEA FOR RUINING MY JOKE
 
I pinged shog in the tavern
so either we'll get the answer or I'll be horribly killed
 
2:46 PM
Wait, it is God of sea at least, no?
 
@Glorfindel venus
 
@Magisch or both
 
@Magisch if the second part happens, that's an answer as well
 
I understand we all want to flag more things, but is it really the best idea to ping multiple CMs every week?
 
Mercury: 58 days and 15 hours
Venus: 243 days
 
2:47 PM
@DavidPostill Venus' day is longer, but Mercury's isn't bad either, plus you have the chance of double sunrises.
@Andy I don't think so, that's why I prefer if Art and Undo are doing the communication on this topic.
 
@Glorfindel And it gets really chill at night
 
@Andy Last ping has been a week ago
 
ASTRONOMY GEEKS UNITE
 
So we waited a week
 
2 hours ago, by ArtOfCode
@Magisch shrug if you happen to see one around, you're welcome to ask em about it
 
2:49 PM
Neptune is amusing
 
@DavidPostill And has a cool color
 
> Neptune: 16 hours, 6 minutes and 36 seconds, but it is a bit more complicated than that. The equator and poles rotate at different speeds. You would have to do more research on the planet to fully understand the varying day on Neptune.
 
I mean "We don't have time for this right now" would be a satisfactory answer, but no communication at all is somewhat unsettling
 
Uranus's color isn't pure
 
2:51 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title: How to buy FIFA 18 coins without getting banned? by Jimlovey on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)
tpu- by Glorfindel
 
@SmokeDetector Oh you'll get banned alright
 
@Magisch And now we've ping'd Shog, Pops, and I'm pretty sure Tim and Jon.
 
@Andy Who pinged Tim?
 
@Andy I haven't seen anyone ping tim or jon
 
I'll go dig through TL.
 
2:54 PM
@Andy you should've put an @ in front of those names :P
 
See thats not anywhere I can read so I couldn't know about that
 
@Magisch Then, perhaps, let those that are already coordinating the communications continue to do so
 
@Magisch and that's why (IMHO) we should keep the communication centralized.
 
I will bet you guys one cookie each, that the reason we haven't heard anything is due to how thin the development / product management team is stretched. Tim was pretty subtle in his hints at their needs for another product manager recently.
 
@Andy Telling us that would take a minute
Yet we're left to guess
 
2:57 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body: These two compartments basically determine by ingfiresten on apple.SE
tpu- by Mego
 
The CMs have been pretty busy fighting fires the last week.
 
I see
 
And, it looks like another one is slowly smoldering on MSO now.
 
@Andy Perhaps if their CEO didn't have an affinity for gasoline and lighters, their lives would be easier :P
 
But responding with "we dont have time right now" is easier and faster then reading 5 different inquiries and deciding to not say anything
 
2:58 PM
@Andy the new navigation? I haven't visited MSO for quite a while...
 
@Andy Goes to have a look ;p
 
Is it me, or did this chatroom just get darker? :P
 
@Glorfindel It's you :)
 
heh
 
2:59 PM
@Andy New fire?
 
@Magisch There are always an infinite number of those.
 
Ooer. I've got the new top bar ...
 
@Glorfindel I'm using Porkchat's dark theme. It can't get darker
@DavidPostill Stahp whatever you're about to say
 
Well, at least Shog responded pops is still active
 
@Magisch Stack Exchange is a mid-sized company. It isn't as nimble as it used to be, but it a ton faster than the company I work for. It's important to remember that there are a lot of gears turning behind the scenes
 
3:01 PM
So maybe we just need another 4-6 months
 
@Magisch Don't you mean 6-8 weeks?
 
6–8
There. My en-dash obviously is superior to your hyphen
 
I'm too lazy to look up the code for an em dash
 
&mdash;
but it doesn't work in chat
 
@Magisch The new top bar was released and MSO has had "several" complaints.
 
3:03 PM
I meant the ALT-code (aka the CP437 ordinal)
 
@Andy Mhm
 
To summarize my point above: Give SE time to deal with "the other things", and keep the pings to CMs about auto-flagging to a minimum. There are discussions about it happening, they just are slow.
 
I'm used to getting owner/boss feedback in at most 30 minutes
Even at the central bank we could ask the director of IT questions and he'd respond within a week at the latest
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title: Are there any methods that i can use to buy FIFA 18 coins without getting banned, and how? by FIFAones on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)
tpu- by Glorfindel
 
@Andy A single "We're talking about it but no time right now" would suffice
For all we know they could just be ignoring us hoping we'll go away on our own
If multiple moderator pings can't get through thats got to be somewhat purposeful ignoring
 
3:08 PM
@M.A.R. It's too early for me to say anything. I'm already tweaking it though ;p
 
@Magisch Or being busy and focusing on other things.
 
tpu- by Glorfindel
 
@Andy collectively too busy to not even give a "we're busy" response?
I mean if I was super busy I'd say something like "Super busy atm please ask again in $time"
 
@Magisch Read the post I linked above by Tim. He pretty clearly says they are busy. It's not directed at us directly, but at the community in general.
 
@Andy Yeah. But if you're busy, you don't ignore inquiries. You respond with "I'm busy" because if you ignore them people will make more, costing you time
I'm pretty sure all CMs know this
 
3:22 PM
@Magisch They aren't ignoring them. Tim explained why they are slow in that meta post. They need more resources to accomplish some bigger projects. Right now, they are focused on smaller tactical projects to keep things moving until they can focus on those larger ones.
They are telling the entire community why they are slow right now, not the handful of us in this room.
 
Slow is taking a day to answer a message
This is glacial
 
Without trying to sound dismissive, you need to have interactions with other companies.
 
And from Tim's post I gather that the Devs/PMs/product guys are swamped right now, not the CMs (well the cms always are, but not more then usual)
 
CMs depend on input from those teams though
 
@Andy I'm pretty sure bigger companies have ways to get through to peopel fast too
Otherwise devs can't really work
 
3:26 PM
The devs are working. They are working on small projects or have been allocated to preexisting larger ones - Docs, Jobs and the top nav right now though, I suspect that last one will be done "soon"
 
I meant by that regardless of how busy someone is, you bet that most SE staff can get to them in an hour or so
Thats necessary in an organization. If I develop something and need stakeholder input for instance, that doesn't wait. Taking a day to respond in such a scenario is already management failure.
 
sounds like a very EU perspective on things
 
I'm in the middle of europe
 
I know
 
If it took me a day to contact my boss or my boss's boss I'd be unproductive as hell
 
3:30 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: MX record and google cloud platform by frognonus on superuser.com
 
Why do you need to speak to your boss that frequently?
 
fp- by Glorfindel
 
various reasons
Stakeholder input for one
Many people have a say in my development decisions
I need to be able to reach all of them at hand
 
Related to our discussion on projects: Tim announced this in October. We haven't seen an update on that, and I suspect that is due to the PM needed post. If we are part of any official project, I'd bet we are in that one.
All I am really asking for is patience. I don't want to come across as the project that pesters the CMs/devs. A week really isn't that long of a time to not have feedback and there is evidence of being underresourced around meta that will impact us.
2
 
3:42 PM
@Undo I live in Europe as well, but I'd prefer the version sounds like a very agile perspective on things. I work for a consultancy firm, and we have the luxury to say 'no' to a second project for an organization which can't keep up with the necessary pace of communication.
 
@Glorfindel That's fair
 
Also, one of my personal rules is that every communication which takes less than a minute to write, should be done immediately. That includes the option: "I'm busy right now, I'll get back to you in 6-8 hours/days/weeks."
But I guess I'm not as busy as a typical CM.
 
Just to co-sign what bluefeet & Adam have said... I'm the top answerer in the feature-request tag, both here and on MSE, with a ton of comments on top of those answers. Over the past year, only 20 people on the entire network got more inbox messages than me, none of them employees; some days, reading my notifications is literally all I get to. And yet, if you look at the quantity of feature-requests I've touched, I've barely scratched the surface. Every time I touch one of these, no matter how briefly, I'm piling up debt against my future, and the backlog always grows faster. — Shog9 ♦ Feb 9 at 19:24
Obviously, that's Shog, but still, that provides the scale of notifications he receives.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: What should I put in the introduction chapter of my thesis? by eli on academia.SE (@Wrzlprmft)
tpu- by Glorfindel
 
4:00 PM
@Glorfindel If I do a project for a department in my company, my boss gets angry at the stakeholders if they have me wait more then an hour even
Being like "Yeah I can come back to that on monday" would so not fly here
 
@Magisch apparently, you've been assigned to a very-high-priority project.
If all projects at your company were like these, you'd have a lot of burnouts in no time.
 
Atm I'm writing ERP software for a company that the owners of my company started
 
that sounds a little shady
 
@Magisch sounds like fun. I did that for my uncle when he decided to start for himself.
 
raises an eyebrow
 
4:03 PM
I mean Enterprise resource planning software
Not the other (less SFW) ERP
 
We raise eyebrows because it's for a company the owners of your company started
I don't even know any other meaning of the acronym ERP.
And I probably don't want to know.
 
Einstein-Rosen ... Pipe?
 
@SmokeDetector N
It's not really abusive @Undo
Also morning
 
You have to scroll a long way down acronymfinder.com/ERP.html
 
@M.A.R. I'd probably disagree on that one, to me it seems obviously meant to troll
(and thus abuse the system, much like keyboard mashes)
 
4:08 PM
Lame joke, maybe. Trolling . . . Not enough lines and plots
 
@Glorfindel although
Its supposedly so high priority that the co owner comes in every day to check the status
But they haven't given it to either of the 3 other 10+ years more senior devs
so it cant be that important
 
@Magisch So it has Schrodinger's importance
 
@Magisch or they don't think the older devs can handle the required development speed.
 
the older devs are several times faster at this
they've been doing exactly this in exactly this language for over 10 years
 
@Undo I haven't seen that type error in a while. Let's hope it continues to be that way heh.
 
4:14 PM
Please help support and if you use this please give us credit for the research that we did guy and gal's thanks. — Austin Hazlett 16 hours ago
Hehe
 
I'm probably the slowest developer by far here
I started insisting on unit tests for my stuff
 
@Magisch this is not necessarily a bad thing
 
I'm trying to learn the right habits now
 
@Magisch I need someone like that here.
 
we dont usually do unit tests or encapsulating or versioning here
 
4:18 PM
... versioning?
Like no source control?
 
I started using svn to check out my code for side applications and unit and integration tests for my code
Yeah
our main app is a 350mb big .mdb file
 
@Undo that's [dev-on-prod], but then 2.0.
 
I refused to get into that so for the new app for the new ERP system for the other company I decided to branch some modules into files that I can check into svn
And I have nice automatic testing for the more complicated functions now :3
takes a lot of time compared to just write -> test once -> deploy though
 
sd f
 
@Undo We like to live dangerously
more seriously, none of our devs have formal dev training
 
4:31 PM
@Magisch Do you at least have backups?
 
all people who worked in the warehouse or testing and started deving some basic application when the company was first adopting computers and got made to be devs
we do
 
4:51 PM
sigh your company needs someone to come along with a magnet and wreck the disks to teach 'em a lesson
 
OOOOH! ME! PICK ME!
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: SharePoint 2013 Search Service to index Office 365 Shared Mailbox by Jeff Fried on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)
 

« first day (1185 days earlier)      last day (981 days later) »