Charcoal HQ

Undo

7:00 PM

And if you did you'd have the wrath of me and whomever else I can find.

Magisch

and SE as a whole

not only is there like 10+ moderators relying on this bot SE itself also is

Jan Dvorak

Technically speaking, nothing can't be repaired, for some values of "repaired"

ArtOfCode

plus given that half this room is diamonded...

Magisch

I'm sure the CMs wouldn't take kindly to someone trying to ruin smokey

Undo

@JanDvorak Repaired, no. Avenged, yes

Theoretically you could probably overheat the Pi. Then I'm out $30

Jan Dvorak

7:01 PM

@Undo I mean, you could always rewrite the bot from scratch

ArtOfCode

@Undo or if I'm running it, then Amazon is out a few hundred :)

Undo

@JanDvorak For that you'd have to destroy all the copies of the repo, including on my MacBook and the two rotating, one offsite, backups.

If we're dealing with the CIA, I would gladly just surrender

ArtOfCode

Even the CIA would have trouble. I'm in the UK.

Magisch

If you managed to piss the CIA off with a antispam bot on a programmer QA site I'd be mighty impressed

Undo

I was in a WWDC talk a few years ago, one of the principles that stuck with me is this: Do the simplest thing that might work. This, for now, is it.

Jan Dvorak

7:04 PM

@Undo thumbs up for off-site backups

Undo

oh, and Smokey's down because I just had another power blip.

ArtOfCode

@Undo no UPS on the Pi?

Undo

@ArtOfCode nah

M.A.R.

@Undo i.imgur.com/JWumYHu.gif .

Magisch

We had an intern

kick our domain server yesterday

for some god damned reason he decided being shown around the server room meant he could kick a server

Undo

7:06 PM

you had a domain server in a place where an intern's foot could be?

Oh okay

Magisch

messed up the domain server's hard drive

our sysadmin was not amused

ArtOfCode

He must've kicked it pretty hard

Magisch

he did

ArtOfCode

My PC is down by my foot, and I can kick that without anything bad happening

Magisch

the sysadmin was so not amused in fact that he filed vandalism charges against a 15 year old

Thomas Ward

7:07 PM

so the server was in the lowest level of the rack...? Or were these just on the ground?

Ferrybig

Just screaming at a server could make it pretty upset too, you see the disk access times rise when you scream

Undo

@Magisch I'm very surprised this is a thing in Germany.

Thomas Ward

@Magisch hey, I've done that before, filed vandalism charges against an incompetent staff member at a datacenter where I colo'd a server

they kicked it. and I was there

Magisch

@ThomasWard It's a server in a tower case

desktop tower case

well was

Thomas Ward

@Magisch Same general question. Why was it on the floor-level? Why not on a shelf/rack/cart?

Jan Dvorak

7:08 PM

My PC is between my fingers and my table

Magisch

before mr idiot forced us to migrate it

ArtOfCode

@Magisch in that case, your intern has a decent defence

Undo

@ArtOfCode Not sure I'd go that far.

ArtOfCode

"it wasn't correctly protected"

Magisch

there was a giant sticker reading "DOMAIN SERVER MUST REMAIN ONLINE DO NOT TURN OFF" on it

Undo

7:09 PM

"but it didn't say I couldn't kick it"

:P

Thomas Ward

@Magisch from the IT world and standards, that doesn't cut it

Magisch

guess what room will no intern see from the inside ever again

ArtOfCode

Next time, make it read "BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DO ANYTHING THAT TAKES THIS SERVER OFFLINE".

Magisch

nobody figured anyone would be stupid enough to kick into a server hard

ArtOfCode

nobody figured on interns, then

Undo

7:10 PM

I assume this is his word v. the intern's?

Magisch

no

ArtOfCode

CCTV?

Magisch

3 people were there other then the intern

M.A.R.

Sheesh you guys are talkative

ArtOfCode

Only when you're not around, @M.A.R. :)

Magisch

7:11 PM

not sure if we save CCTV footage from that room

but maybe

Undo

Still doubt one would be successful with vandalism charges.

Thomas Ward

@M.A.R. are you trying to suggest we should not be?

Magisch

Maybe not

Undo

At least here, you'd need to prove intent to actually break something.

M.A.R.

. . .

ArtOfCode

7:12 PM

@Magisch why would you not save CCTV from the most important room in the building

Magisch

How is kicking a server full force not intent

You don't accidentally sink your boots with charge into a server

Undo

@Magisch "I tripped on it, by the way it was on the ground and not in a rack"

ArtOfCode

proving intent is really hard

Magisch

Thank god it was only a server

Undo

Not saying he'd be right, but it might be enough of a defense (combined with the 15-year-old-ness) to get off.

Magisch

7:13 PM

we have some seriously expensive equipment that we let interns see usually

Ferrybig

@Magisch "There was a spider on that piece of equipment, I only wanted to kill it"

Jan Dvorak

@ArtOfCode "she slipped and fell on a knife. Seventeen times.

Magisch

Like a scanning electron microscope

ArtOfCode

@Ferrybig a 15-year old would be dumb enough to do this

M.A.R.

@JanDvorak You have an unclosed quotation thingy there. TRIGGERED

Jan Dvorak

7:13 PM

"

ArtOfCode

"

M.A.R.

"

Undo

@ArtOfCode Or anyone with mortal fear of spiders and less-than-perfect situational awareness.

Ferrybig

Got ninja'd by Undo while crashing the train

Magisch

grml

I wouldn't lift a server while its running, much less kick it

Jan Dvorak

7:14 PM

Reminds me of the lady who dried her cat in a microwave

ArtOfCode

excellent idea

Magisch

this is a company where if you walk into any of the labs and kick some random machine chances are you caused six figure damages

Undo

@Magisch There are definitely ways to not act around servers, but at this point your sysadmin/company is trying to prove vandalism.

Which, at least here, would be really, really hard.

Jan Dvorak

Merely six figures?

CaffeineAddiction

was this intern dismissed?

Undo

7:15 PM

I don't know how employment laws work in Germany, but I would hope you could fire him fairly easily. Taking him to court on the other hand...

Magisch

used scanning electron microscope is like 700k IIRC

oh he was fired

Undo

Unless in Germany you have to sue someone to fire them

Magisch

and will likely be expelled from his school

Undo

Oh okay

Magisch

for that

Undo

7:16 PM

@Magisch Against which he should fight tooth and nail.

Jan Dvorak

Just $700k for an SEM?

ArtOfCode

@JanDvorak yeah, sounds about right

Magisch

It was a internship required by the school

Undo

Meh. ProTip: Just keep your feet away from servers and life will be easier.

Magisch

destruction of company property by the student means the school will have to pay for it

Undo

7:17 PM

ProTip #2: Keep your servers away from feet and life will be easier.

2

Jan Dvorak

@Undo this also applies to waiters

Thomas Ward

ProTip #3: There are cabinets with secure doors for non-rack-mountable servers. Should probably get one, then you can put the servers in there. Then, don't open them for interns or anyone except IT / Sysadmin

Magisch

We just wont let interns in the server room anymore

Thomas Ward

@Magisch another question - why were they permitted in the server room at all? Sounds like "Security Breach" waiting to happen :p

(just saying)

Magisch

we show interns around there usually

Undo

7:19 PM

@ThomasWard Or even get one of those little metal corner guard things to prevent corner-turning (legit) accidents.

Jan Dvorak

There's nothing worse than an unguarded intern with a flash drive

Magisch

most find it cool to see a server and have us explain what they do etc

ArtOfCode

@JanDvorak this

Magisch

I never said we leave them alone

ArtOfCode

or a bored student, cough

Magisch

7:19 PM

that'd be suicidal lol

Undo

@JanDvorak Unguarded ~~student~~ anyone with a flash drive.

Thomas Ward

heh

ArtOfCode

pretty sure I still have a USB stick in the back of one of the servers at my school that I left last year

Thomas Ward

@Undo Unguarded unauthorized individual with a flash drive

Undo

Or even authorized ones.

Jan Dvorak

7:20 PM

@ArtOfCode Inbefore they sue you ten years later

Magisch

@ThomasWard You'd be surprised. Back when I was trying to do a dual uni degree with the central bank as sponsor I and fellow students were allowed to walk around in the single most highly guarded data center in germany

Thomas Ward

(if you're working there and are there with a flash drive to flash the BIOS on the server to fix an issue with the system board, that's a different story)

Magisch

the one where all monetary transactions in europe pass through

Thomas Ward

@Magisch wat

o.O

ArtOfCode

@JanDvorak those IT people? They'll never even find it, let alone figure out what it's doing.

Undo

7:21 PM

@ArtOfCode What... is it doing?

mining bitcoin, hopefully?

Magisch

granted we had to announce ourselves 2 weeks prior and at this point every one of us had to go through lv2 security clearance but still

Jan Dvorak

Good question

ArtOfCode

@Undo Sitting. Logging. Getting remote access.

Magisch

and there were people with guns following us around

ArtOfCode

:)

Undo

7:21 PM

@Magisch Do they screen for "how likely are you to kick stuff"?

Magisch

No

Thomas Ward

@Undo They should start to heh

Magisch

But they interview your teachers

Thomas Ward

@Magisch Makes total sense

ArtOfCode

anyway, I originally put it in for legit, authorized reasons - they just never reminded me to take it out, so I didn't

Magisch

7:22 PM

and check a ton of other stuff

Its very invasive

Undo

@Magisch "Timmy is a good kid but sometimes he just kicks stuff" :P

Magisch

I'm pretty sure if you kicked something there the guy with the gun following you would just shoot you in the head there

CaffeineAddiction

@ArtOfCode dont worry, not only will they not notice ... it will most likly get migrated to the new server when it is replaced

Thomas Ward

@CaffeineAddiction More probably the leg, so they can't claim a case of murder

ArtOfCode

@Magisch pretty sure that's not going to happen

Jan Dvorak

7:23 PM

"you kicked a bucket, now you'll kick the bucket"

Undo

@ThomasWard Legs are awful hard to hit, especially if they're moving around very much.

Magisch

@ArtOfCode You sure? They warned us when we got in to absolutely avoid sudden movements

ArtOfCode

@CaffeineAddiction in 10 years time, yeah

Undo

@Magisch It's a lot of paperwork when you shoot someone.

Thomas Ward

@Undo bit easier in close-quarters

ArtOfCode

7:24 PM

@Magisch even the most on-edge security guys have protocols

Jan Dvorak

@Magisch cramp = gg?

Undo

@ThomasWard Depends on the weapon, I suppose

Magisch

@Undo It's a 8 figure sum of loss if one of these goes down for 20 minutes

Thomas Ward

Tasers are a little more effective. Taser shotgun shells are even more effective than that, but that's a bit excessive

ArtOfCode

protocols almost without exception that include telling the guy to stop and get on the floor well before you shoot them

Undo

7:24 PM

@Magisch Less than the damages you'd pay for shooting someone unjustifiably.

Magisch

Nobody tried anything funny so we never found out

ArtOfCode

@Magisch there's also significant risk of shooting a server if you just pull triggers at sudden movements

Jan Dvorak

blue screen of death

Magisch

Most of us were sweating buckets to not even get near anything

that shit is intimidating as hell

ArtOfCode

it's also fairly likely that the first two or three bullets in their guns were rubber deterrents

Jan Dvorak

7:26 PM

@ArtOfCode deadly for a poorly balanced machine, barely noticeable for a human?

Magisch

They have a laser perimeter alarm system and a hand vein scanner for bio authorization

that is some scary stuff

ArtOfCode

@JanDvorak barely noticeable in the sense that they'd crack ribs, dent skulls, or fracture a leg? Yeah.

Jan Dvorak

... oh.

ArtOfCode

They don't kill you, usually, but they're not good things to get hit by.

Jan Dvorak

TIL vein matching

Magisch

7:27 PM

They explained it that it was because eye scanning was fakeable

Undo

@ArtOfCode I suspect muzzle velocities on those are high enough to be lethal at close range.

ArtOfCode

I got shot with one a couple years back, in full body armour, and it had me on the floor for the subsequent half hour.

Thomas Ward

@Undo they are, it's why tasers are a little more effective

ArtOfCode

@Undo yep

anything under 5m is lethal, usually

Magisch

I've never been shot tasered or peppersprayed

Jan Dvorak

7:28 PM

What happens if you hit a server with a tazer?

Magisch

I'd like to think its partly because I'm uninteresting and a massive wuss

ArtOfCode

@Magisch I... have been all three of those things. None of them are pleasant.

Undo

@JanDvorak You'd probably just hit the housing and short your taser out in short order.

Magisch

@Undo or empty it into the grounding wire

Jan Dvorak

Worst case scenario, please

Thomas Ward

7:30 PM

@JanDvorak Most worst case? Death. It blows up and you die.

Less worst case, you just fry the system.

Ferrybig

@JanDvorak The taser bounces of the system and hits you instead

Magisch

why are tazer shotgun shells a thing

who invented that

Thomas Ward

@Magisch military / governments

less-lethal rounds

min. firing distance is 10 yards I think to give it time to activate and not cut right through you.

Magisch

ok then

I'll never find out

My only run in with the police yet was at a party I was chaperoning for money and the police was greatful that at least one sober person was there to get people to disperse and go home

Thomas Ward

being tazered is not fun

Magisch

7:32 PM

And that one time where they thought I was drunk on a bike but I wasnt

Thomas Ward

it hurts

Magisch

I can imagine

ArtOfCode

Being shot is painful, whether the bullets are lethal or not. Being tased is painful but for less long, unless you hit the ground particularly hard. Being CS'd is also painful for your eyes, and annoying as hell when you're blind for the next hour or more.

Magisch

PS would be less bad for me since I wear thick glasses

so most of that would just go into the glasses

Undo

@Magisch I doubt that'd help much

Thomas Ward

7:33 PM

affects your lungs too

Undo

It's more of a cloud than a stream.

Jan Dvorak

Don't worry, they'll just increase the dose

Thomas Ward

and unless the glasses completely shield your eyes from the elements you're gonna get affected

Magisch

That would be unfortunate

ArtOfCode

@Magisch nah, it'd get around the glasses. I had goggles on, but they were side-ventilated... not fun.

Magisch

7:34 PM

I have already got reduced lung function from the 2 times I got god damn pneumonia

Is it like getting tabasco sauce in your eyes @ArtOfCode?

ArtOfCode

sorta, but worse

Thomas Ward

way worse

ArtOfCode

CS is not nice stuff

you do not want to add it to your food

Undo

@ArtOfCode Are you able to run Smokey for a while?

Jan Dvorak

Computer Science?

ArtOfCode

7:35 PM

yep

@JanDvorak CS gas

Undo

Thanks. I'm bad at linux.

Thomas Ward

CS gas

The compound 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (also called o-chlorobenzylidene malononitrile) (chemical formula: C10H5ClN2), a cyanocarbon, is the defining component of a tear gas commonly referred to as CS gas, which is used as a riot control agent. Exposure causes a burning sensation and tearing of the eyes to the extent that the subject cannot keep their eyes open, and a burning irritation of the nose, mouth and throat mucous membranes causing profuse coughing, mucous nasal discharge, disorientation, and difficulty breathing, partially incapacitating the subject. CS gas is an aerosol of a volatile...

@Undo sounds like you should hire someone who is not bad at linux :P

Undo

position open, $1-2 per year.

Magisch

I know what ls -l does

is that enough

Thomas Ward

@Undo make it $5-10 and i might consider it :P

ArtOfCode

7:37 PM

!!/stappit

Undo

@ArtOfCode not running

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 0f14f7b (Fernando van Loenhout: Merge pull request #260 from magisch/patch-12) (running on ArtOfCode/EC2)

Undo

I have the drive sitting in front of me.

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 8238.

Jan Dvorak

Wait, do I see a triple bond to a nitrogen? EEEEK!

Magisch

7:38 PM

fun fact: I and 3 others from my class have admin access to our school's mainframe

ArtOfCode

I will add, I've been shot/gassed/tased for legit reasons, not because I'm a criminal

@Magisch I had that :)

Magisch

cause my project management teacher is the school sysadmin and likes to outsource his stuff to students

ArtOfCode

in fact, I think I had more access than the techs themselves did

at least, I don't think I'm a criminal :)

DJMcMayhem

@ArtOfCode Why have you experienced all these terrible things?

Thomas Ward

@ArtOfCode Smokey running on an EC2? What size EC2 do you have that thing on heh

ArtOfCode

7:40 PM

@DJMcMayhem I trained with the Navy for a while... for fun.

@ThomasWard t2.micro

Thomas Ward

nice

Magisch

@ArtOfCode Whats a legitimate reason to get shot tasered or pepper'd?

do they make you do that in basic training?

Thomas Ward

@Magisch Volunteering. Or basic training.

ArtOfCode

36 secs ago, by ArtOfCode

@DJMcMayhem I trained with the Navy for a while... for fun.

@Magisch yep

it's the theory that you shouldn't be on the trigger end of any of those weapons until you understand what they do

Magisch

more reasons why I'll never go to the millitary

Thomas Ward

7:41 PM

@ArtOfCode True statements are true.

I can't join the military though I've considered it.

DJMcMayhem

My friend of mine (who is a cop) was showing me a video of him getting tasered. It looked really painful

Magisch

even pepperspray requires a weapon permit here

Thomas Ward

(asthma == disqualifier)

Magisch

So I don't have any

ArtOfCode

@ThomasWard likewise, but I was doing it for fun so they didn't care. So... hey, why not.

Thomas Ward

7:43 PM

heheh

Magisch

somehow my definition of fun doesnt include heavy physical training and getting peppersprayed

ArtOfCode

@Magisch it wasn't all that

there was also the time I spent at sea with 'em

though I should probably not say much about that because I'm not sure what I am allowed to say

@Undo does the websocket need to send a ping every 3 seconds?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Tools for long-distance collaboration by John Moris on mathoverflow.net

tpu- by ArtOfCode

Thomas Ward

@SmokeDetector tpu-

ooo "An error occurred in posting feedback to metasmoke" with the FDSC 0.14.1 revert... interesting...

ArtOfCode

what's in your console?

Thomas Ward

7:54 PM

nukes userscript, revokes access, starts over

@ArtOfCode nothing?

there should be

there's zip

ArtOfCode

eh? If you got that message, there'll be something in your browser console.

Thomas Ward

FDSC 0.14.1, meet /dev/null. /dev/null, meet FDSC 0.14.1. Or this copy of it and cached data..

@ArtOfCode I'mma start over to see if it's something odd in cache. And console output.

didn't have the console up

ArtOfCode

shrug

Undo

@ArtOfCode github.com/rails/rails/issues/24908

Thomas Ward

hmm now I would have to flag someting. There'll be something along soon enough...

ArtOfCode

7:56 PM

@Undo foresight

@ThomasWard report then flag one of mine on HR if you like

Thomas Ward

nah i'll wait.

laptop battery's close to death anyways, gotta relocate to find power.

ArtOfCode

fair

@Undo I've been trying to come up with a way to get a dev console for metasmoke without stupid levels of access... so far the best I have is a thing that lets you query for any model object, with some form of filtering for PII fields. I have no idea how you'd implement that, though.

Undo

@ArtOfCode Yeah, it'd be hard to do perfectly.

You'd have to filter out everything from API keys to emails to IPs

ArtOfCode

API stuff... meh. Emails and IPs, yeah

Undo

You have a dev environment, right?

ArtOfCode

8:02 PM

yeah

dual-boot Ubuntu on local

but bugs turn up in prod that I can't repro on local

Undo

I could just have it give you an expiring link to the nightly backups

ArtOfCode

that would also work

Undo

Those would also have emails and such in them, though

ArtOfCode

ah

yeah, that's gotta be your call

Undo

Might be possible to drop some columns from the backups

ArtOfCode

8:07 PM

yep

SmokeDetector

Backoff received of 10 seconds on request to questions/30348;30348?site=arduino at 20:16:48 UTC

Undo

I wish I could bounty GitHub issues

SmokeDetector

8:26 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: Trying to create geometry dash account. Keep getting "invalid email". by bro on gaming.stackexchange.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Rename all files in a folder to consecutive numbers by aiden carter on askubuntu.com

tpu- by Jan Dvorak

Byte Commander

@SmokeDetector f

SmokeDetector

Backoff received of 10 seconds on request to questions/18183;129151?site=mathematica at 20:30:41 UTC

ArtOfCode

@Undo #StackExchangeProblems

Undo

Heh

SmokeDetector

8:49 PM

Backoff received of 10 seconds on request to questions/129151;129153?site=mathematica at 20:48:55 UTC

Yvette Colomb

@ArtOfCode you talk like you know this from experience lol

ArtOfCode

@YvetteColomb I do

Yvette Colomb

@ArtOfCode now you're freaking me out O>O

ArtOfCode

1 hour ago, by ArtOfCode

@DJMcMayhem I trained with the Navy for a while... for fun.

Yvette Colomb

9:10 PM

But you haven't been shot??

ArtOfCode

@YvetteColomb yeah, with rubber bullets

not with live ammo, even the Navy aren't that dumb

Yvette Colomb

ah! I'm in my happy place again

ArtOfCode

I've shot live ammo, I haven't been shot with live ammo.

Yvette Colomb

I'm glad dear :)

Very glad, as your level headedness is only challenged by the great @Undo himself. We need people like you alive and well.

I was waiting for some spam to test the script revert. But I must go and feed my horses. It will have to wait until I return \o

ArtOfCode

@Undo your head's more leveller than what mine is

CaffeineAddiction

9:17 PM

browsing through findspam.py ... how was that massive list compiled in the first place?

SmokeDetector

Backoff received of 10 seconds on request to questions/129155;129155?site=mathematica at 21:17:22 UTC

ArtOfCode

@CaffeineAddiction blood, sweat, and years.

there's another massive list in the blacklisted websites file

Undo

@CaffeineAddiction Mostly ProgramFOX and Normal/soup/zaq

SmokeDetector

9:40 PM

Backoff received of 10 seconds on request to questions/89346;89346?site=rpg at 21:39:44 UTC

SmokeDetector

10:51 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] All-caps answer: "May I ask if..." by FLO GRACIA on english.stackexchange.com

naa- by ArtOfCode

tpu- by NobodyNada

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode Is that NAA?

ArtOfCode

Why would it be spam/abusive?

NobodyNada

The same reason that aklsdjfl;aksdfj would; it's just nonsense

Jan Dvorak

Not that nonsensical

Well, actually, it is nonsense

Yvette Colomb

11:08 PM

My cat did once walk across the keyboard while I was chatting for work. — Yvette Colomb 37 secs ago

Yvette Colomb

11:33 PM

sd why

SmokeDetector

@YvetteColomb [:33020810] Body - Position 3372-3381: AntiAging

Yvette Colomb

@SmokeDetector f

ArtOfCode

11:49 PM

@NobodyNada it's hardly nonsense.

The definition of 'nonsense' that's being used here is getting to be too weak. Nonsense is cat-across-keyboard, or it's totally nonsensical. Things that are a majority of English sentences are not nonsense, and shouldn't be getting red-flagged.

I hate to get official and all that about it, but I don't want our standards dropping right as we're looking at SE integration. If that happens, people are going to start seriously whining about us when we flag things wrong, and I'd rather not have to deal with that too much.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token : , when i access tickets.com json api by lantai kayu on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: How exactly std::string_view is faster than const std::string&? by lantai kayu on stackoverflow.com

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