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00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

15:06
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of answer: Random decimal number in c# between given numbers by Paweł Sieńko on stackoverflow.com (@AndrasDeak)
sd n
15:18
sd f
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of answer, blacklisted user: Iterating over transactions in a private blockchain using web3.js by Mar Kolo on ethereum.stackexchange.com
sd k
15:32
sd fp-
15:53
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword with email in answer: Open Gmail on mailto: action by Rohlfsen Russell on stackoverflow.com (@AndrasDeak)
@SmokeDetector k
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps answer, offensive answer detected: Mouse jumps around when using DOSBOX by pepe on gaming.stackexchange.com
sd k
sd k
It'd be nice to blacklist the other 4 accounts, but I think there's no batch option for that.
@Bookend Invalid format. Valid format: !!/addblu profileurl or !!/addblu userid sitename.
@Bookend Invalid format. Valid format: !!/isblu profileurl or !!/isblu userid sitename.
@Bookend User is not blacklisted (363661 on serverfault.com).
16:22
@Bookend User blacklisted (363661 on serverfault.com).
@Bookend User is not blacklisted (6103199 on stackoverflow.com).
I'd say this is a bug. One would expect that !!/addblu- blacklists without confirmation.
Or rather, lack of a feature. Will add.
Hm, this isn't that simple because those methods don't get message_parts as an argument.
sd f
16:49
Never mind, they do get that, it's just not made explicit when not used.
Backoff received of 10 seconds on request to questions/114719;223161;157220;222690;223161?site=stats
sd f
Restart: API quota is 9937.
@Bookend User is not blacklisted (146128 on gaming.stackexchange.com).
@Bookend User is not blacklisted (146128 on gaming.stackexchange.com).
Aha. I take it !!/notify- doesn't work either.
@Bookend isn't your change going to break the !!/test command that searches for a certain location in the full command? 8 for normal test
17:04
Restart: API quota is 9921.
Let me test something...
!!/test healthyminimarket.com
> Pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title
----------
Title - Position 1-21: healthyminimarket.co
Body - Position 1-21: healthyminimarket.co
> Pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title
----------
Title - Position 1-21: healthyminimarket.co
Body - Position 1-21: healthyminimarket.co
@Ferrybig I'm not changing anything with !!/test. It doesn't support quiet syntax, since it makes no sense.
!!/test-a healthyminimarket.com
17:05
> Pattern-matching website in answer, pattern-matching website in title
----------
Title - Position 1-21: healthyminimarket.co
Body - Position 1-21: healthyminimarket.co
> Pattern-matching website in answer, pattern-matching website in title
----------
Title - Position 1-21: healthyminimarket.co
Body - Position 1-21: healthyminimarket.co
!!/testanswer healthyminimarket.com
> Pattern-matching website in answer, pattern-matching website in title
----------
Title - Position 5-25: healthyminimarket.co
Body - Position 5-25: healthyminimarket.co
> Pattern-matching website in answer, pattern-matching website in title
----------
Title - Position 5-25: healthyminimarket.co
Body - Position 5-25: healthyminimarket.co
17:06
ok, just wanted to check something
@Bookend User is not blacklisted (146128 on gaming.stackexchange.com).
Oh, the - is supposed to be at the end of the last argument? Come on
Wouldn't !!/notify- something something make at least as much sense as !!/notify something something-
I think both should be accepted.
Indeed, for addblu the former makes more sense because the URL might contain -.
We should insist on - being trailing in whatever part of command it is attached to. Currently we don't.
Simple and clear: quiet_action = any([part.endswith('-') for part in message_parts])
[ SmokeDetector ] Email in answer: How to end do not disturb mode? by zabery jahangir on android.stackexchange.com
17:24
@SmokeDetector f
Restart: API quota is 9891.
@Bookend User is blacklisted (146128 on gaming.stackexchange.com).
@Bookend User is not blacklisted (146128 on gaming.stackexchange.com).
@Bookend User blacklisted (6103199 on stackoverflow.com).
(Quiet - can also be added to the argument, old-style)
@Bookend User is blacklisted (6103199 on stackoverflow.com).
@Bookend User is blacklisted (6103199 on stackoverflow.com).
17:46
!!/pull
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 82843d1 (Normal Human: corrected over-indent) (running on Raspberry Pi)
Restart: API quota is 2966.
18:02
Hmm, @Bookend is there/should there be a way to addblu all of the network accounts of a user with one command?
It actually makes more sense than the current addblu, if it's possible.
If we can get the user's network ID (not site ID), we can use associated-users
Hmm, I think I remember a meta.SE post that asked how to obtain a Network ID from a local site ID.
account-id in the user object
For example, using one of the links from above, you'd run an API call to get user 363661 on server fault and pull the account id. From there you'd make a call to associated-users.
Two API calls for a single user, because the shallow_user object doesn't contain account id
Which brings up, @ArtOfCode's feature request: meta.stackexchange.com/q/277868/186281
The other thing about a blanket blacklist, is that some users are "bad" on their non-home site but perfectly fine on their main site
The only bad thing: Bad in the olden days spammers usualy kept making new accounts before they were going to spam, so the associated-users list didn't include new pending sites
I'm not understanding what you are saying @Ferrybig.
Associated users will only show where a user has an account
So, I probably don't have an associated user on some of the new sites right now, but if I joined the community I'd have a new account listed
18:14
Spammer makes account 1, spam site 1, spammer makes account 2, spam site 2, spammer makes account 3, spam site 3. If we did that we probably only catched 1 or 0 posts more
Ah. You're worried about a bloated black list?
[ SmokeDetector ] Few unique characters in body: Calculate sum of integers within string Arraylist and sort arraylist by Duckkiee on stackoverflow.com (@AndrasDeak)
@Andy more/less that the spammer already spammed on that site/ still need to create more accounts for new sites, we probably only catch sites were he already posted on
18:35
@TIPS I think this is reasonable: when the URL parameter of addblu is network-wide profile, use the API to retrieve accounts and blacklist them. Don't have time right now, though...
API quota rolled over with 2633 requests remaining. Current quota: 9999.
stackoverflow: 1256
askubuntu: 474
superuser: 447
drupal: 254
unix: 231
gaming: 231
electronics: 128
english: 124
math: 122
scifi: 118
travel: 116
salesforce: 116
security: 109
magento: 109
academia: 108
apple: 100
dba: 96
meta: 95
movies: 86
wordpress: 85
gis: 83
mathoverflow.net: 81
mathematica: 80
android: 77
sharepoint: 77
worldbuilding: 76
ell: 74
programmers: 73
physics: 65
ru.stackoverflow: 59
stats: 59
codegolf: 58
puzzling: 58
tex: 58
gamedev: 57
webapps: 56
codereview: 54
diy: 49
graphicdesign: 44
sd k
@SmokeDetector TP-
"Don't want this question answered"
Not rolling back because that was tried already. Mod-flagged
19:09
sd f
20:06
@Undo I do believe my sister will be emailing you shortly, though I don't know why. Should come to anything@
@ArtOfCode Got it ;)
heh
my ninja is not as good on an ipad
20:45
Cheers @Undo
Out of curiosity, what's likely to be the fastest way to learn the intricacies of the MS system?
@Åna Hang around in here for a while.
Or write the system. Either one. Learned Rails yet? ;)
System goes SE -> SmokeDetector -> metasmoke
@ArtOfCode Now we're talking
Well it's how I learned it...
Well I spent about an hour looking at rails... Does that count? :P
20:48
I learned the system by being active here, and following the discussions that happend here
@Åna Best way to learn is to find a tutorial and blindly follow it
Do that two or three times and you'll start picking up patterns
Monkey see pattern, monkey apply pattern. Got it ;)
I think I got privileges last time I was here, actually
!!/amiprivileged
@Åna Yes, you are a privileged user.
Excellent
also, @Åna I left this out of that email, but do keep trying for a pro-tem appointment. You remind me a lot of... myself, about three years ago - extremely eager.
20:51
@Undo how old are you, if you don't mind me asking?
16
Heh, consecutive ages.
Yeah, it's just a matter of finding a site that I could mod
@Åna that'll come. My best advice is not to force it.
Eyes on A51 then...
Speaking of... Looks like AI is set to launch.
... again? :P
20:54
Again?
For some reason I want to say this'll be the third or fourth try.
@Åna Indeed. In the meantime, find yourself a niche and figure out how to flag stuff in it. I really wouldn't mind having someone who is really good at finding bad reviewers on SO, for example.
Oh. That might not be so promising, then... Not that I know anything about AI, but it's interesting.
@Åna Eh, in a field moving that quickly, trying the proposal every year or so is a good idea. It's growing fast, eventually it'll have critical mass.
@Undo that a challenge? Add a bad reviewer detector to Charcoal's books...sounds like fun
@Åna Reading it like a challenge wouldn't be misguided.
SOCVR has some kind of review-monitoring thing, although it's probably in C# or something
20:58
Also Monero set to launch...yep, I know even less about that.
@Undo C#? Excellent, I know that one
Yet another cryptocurrency I know nothing about
@Åna So hold on, why don't you have an SO account? ;)
@Undo haven't had cause, yet... I don't do enough dev
If you know C#, even a little bit, you're fully qualified to flag stuff on SO
That said, I can get the assoc bonus, so I don't even have to bother getting rep for flagging
Indeed. I didn't realize you had rep, that makes things easier.
@Åna github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/SOCVR-Chatbot, live review code should be in there somewhere
21:01
There we are, account created
also, GitHub changed their font :(
@Undo just about over the threshold on A&C
That...might take me a while to sift through.
Hey @Art, wanna help?
Do I want to help? Now there's a loaded question if I ever saw one.
Pretty sure he's still the one running it
21:03
@Undo sweet
@SmokeDetector f, but serverfault.com/a/789220/162327 is VLQ
There's a thought. @Undo would it pain you if I bugged asked @Art to show me how MS and its admin work?
le sigh
Sam
Sam
@Undo Soon to be F#.
@Åna Definitely ask, and don't be afraid to bug if necessary!
21:18
le double sigh
There was me hoping I might find some backup here ;)
I don't believe there's any real PII in there anymore
@Undo I actually did find something in the code that could reveal it the other day, but I've never seen it happen.
Nor do I remember where it is :)
Sam
Sam
@Undo That didn't ping me btw. Which is strange; I thought mod pings were supposed to ping the recipient regardless of their last visit to the room?
@ArtOfCode Feedback owners when username isn't defined, probably?
@Sam Normal pings from a mod are normal, you have to actually want to use the superpowers for them to work
Sam
Sam
Oh
Cool, didn't know that was a thing.
21:21
@Undo sounds something approaching right, but I'd have to go find it
@Undo is that like the Green Lantern?
you have to put your soul into it for it to work:P
@AndrasDeak Almost exactly
@AndrasDeak Is that a pun for your green username?
@Ferrybig no:(
I'm very self-conscious of my avatar
@Undo don't you need 10k rep to be effective at finding bad reviewers? Even if you bump into a bad review, you'd have to look at other reviews of the same user
@AndrasDeak You should be able to do that from their history page
21:29
unless there's a lucky kind of disaster when a user floods so much crap into the review queues that you can follow that trail and see what's approved:)
10k makes it marginally easier, but I flagged plenty of bad reviewers pre-10k
If the question is deleted while the user presses is ok, then its probably a bad review
@Undo hey, you're right!
for some reason I assumed that that's also not visible
thanks:)
SEDE should be able to do it, no?
@Åna The data is definitely there for suggested edits. Not sure about the other queues, there's some weird omissions
IIRC one of them is reviewer ID, although I could be wrong
21:33
Well I start with suggested edits, then
well suggested edits should be one of the worst
And if SEDE doesn't have the data, or the API, then scraping it is.
@AndrasDeak I'd really like data on LQP, but that queue is so bad there might be too much noise to detect stuff.
If the number of changed characters is available, the lower the better for wild guesses, right? I'd expect a smaller ratio of minor edits to be approvable than the global ratio
@AndrasDeak I think the text of the edit is available; it might be possible to look up the previous rev and diff it
21:35
That sounds a bit overkill:/
of course it depends on the expected reward;)
This shouldn't be difficult, really... The hard part is collecting the data, when you've got it you can just throw it at a database and run tests on it
@Åna That's the nice thing about SEDE if you can possibly get what you want from it
I'll break out the Python when I get home
I should note that I'm purely kibitzing here, I don't know any of the tech underlying smokey or the other bots
21:37
@Åna ...yeah, that wasn't worded too well.
@AndrasDeak cough willpower, not soul cough Wicked cough, I've got...
:D
coughs black blood, right?
Did something get flagged? Sudden descent of blues...
I always find it amusing that most of the users here have blue usernames. (Yes, I'm easily amused)
21:43
@Åna Room breeds diamonds. It's the strangest thing.
This room is like two rabbits...
Doesn't surprise me that the spam fighters are also diamonds, though
...warm and fuzzy
@Andy you mean eight rabbits
@Undo You should find a way to turn them into charcoal. You'd make millions in the energy industry!
3
@Åna after a few weeks, yes
21:45
Nah, delta-Hc is low for charcoal compared to coal and oil
if it was easy, you wouldn't make millions, duh
just to be clear, you mean creation enthalpy, right?
Combustion
hmm
ah, I see the point of confusion
what about charcoal compared to diamonds?:P
Waaaay higher.
there you go
21:48
So we have also discovered delta-Hc for this room. Enthalpy of confusion.
Con-fusion? Another promising branch of R&D
Charcoal Energy. We should start a company.
FWIW I'd hire Undo for any job he applies to
if you do start a company, hire him:P
Hmmmm... Senior Financial Undersecretary to the First Sub-Assistant Minister for Social Anthropological Health Applications?
SFUFSAMSAHA? sure
21:53
@Åna Please tell me this is a real job title somewhere.
(thank goodness this is no longer visible on the starboard:P)
@Undo if it is, it could only be Britain. Haven't heard of it, though.
@Undo, would it be to much to hope for if I asked if you documented those new environment variable names somewhere other than "it's in the code"?
@Andy That's probably a good idea
22:13
there's a unix and linux chat, you know ;-)
awww:(
fair enough
this room used to be so quiet
9
oh hey, I saw your featured mso question @Yvette... nice :D
@Yvette I used to not be here
@AndrasDeak when I first came here it was 99% on topic, then socvr has been coming ever since sigh
and the chattiness that is found there has followed
22:20
boo
@Quill yeh, thanks. It looks like the only thing that will be implemented to educate people is the feature request itself, which is ok.
I personally feel like the info about how to deal with spam posts isn't visible enough
there's an MSE question about it, sure. but there's not a link in the flag description
and the -100 rep penalty is unbeknownst to many
Between 15 and 20% of all posts that were flagged as spam also have at least 1 close vote on SO.
@Yvette Believable. I still don't see what harm that's doing, though ;)
22:32
as I said, that's only a problem if those 15-20% votes were left instead of flags
@Undo it demonstrates that there's a significant number of users who do not know how to use the system and accordingly this would be translated across other areas of the UI
@AndrasDeak people are voting instead of flagging
the flags are coming from other users
@Yvette I don't see the argument for it necessarily transferring across other areas. Let's find those other areas and fix them instead of sinking dev time into this.
@Yvette how do you know that?
bluefeet apparently ignored my query regarding exactly this information
I don't see people not knowing how to use the system as a problem unless it's causing tangible issues.
@Undo well you say you decline many spam flags?
22:35
@Yvette We decline many flags, period. But yes.
I'll fill in for @Bookend here: Puzzling elections are underway
@SmokeDetector n
@Undo for anyone designing software/ a site that is an important consideration Undo :)
people not knowing how to use things isn't a bad thing, you just have to have "handrails" to make sure they don't mess up
22:36
sd k
@Yvette this is another thing I don't get:) Whyare you talking about declined spam flags, when your concern is a lack of legit spam flags?
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 2 hours ago, by Bookend
There is going to be a Puzzling election soon.
@Quill lol
@Yvette I think this answer was more a me too answer
He just got back from overseas, he's probably a bit tired
22:36
@Quill Oh, haha, should have checked the Tavern. I was under the delusion that just once, I could be faster than him...
@AndrasDeak it is something Undo is concerned about, you've walked into the middle of an ongoing discussion
@Doorknob he's slacking in here, at least ;-)
@Yvette Oh, of course we'd try to fix it in a perfect world with unlimited dev resources. At the moment, though, I don't have any evidence that says this should be prioritized over anything else.
And if there's no evidence for that, why should it be done at all?
@Ferrybig first answer, plugging their product
@Yvette well I must have walked into the same thing on meta:D
22:37
@Undo as for prioritising, I don't know what else needs to be fixed.
Got to go, see you later. Going on a holiday
@Yvette Look at the numbers again. There are only 176 posts in June that had spam and close votes
@Yvette Docs, Teams, etc. all need to be shipped. Some less visible stuff should be fixed. I'd like to be able to undo flag decisions, etc.
That's not a significant number
@Undo "I'd like to be able to undo flag decisions" Can be done on MSO?
22:38
Basically, I just need to see a better reason than "people are doing it wrong". Show me a number of spam posts that lived for a significantly longer period than they should have because of this, or another tangible impact.
@Ferrybig You're thinking of flag retractions.
@Ferrybig have a nice trip:)
@Andy you need to look at the % in the next column
Don't know if there's a request for it
@Undo wanting to undo...how typical
@Yvette Andy is saying that a large percent of a small number is still a small number.
22:39
@AndrasDeak thx
@Undo used less words than I did and explained my point better
@Andy lol I see
it's not a big deal, nothing really is, any mistakes people make, the thing that amazes me is the number of higher rep users (people with close vote priv) who don't know how to use the system. That's the amazing thing. To be on the site for so long and not know how to use the system. There is a failure in the system with than I think.
The root cause here is that reputation has nothing to do with ability to moderate. That's what you're seeing.
I know several users who have n*10k rep from old questions ranginf rom mediocre to godawful
@Undo yes but flagging spam is a basic website feature, most places that have user discussion have this feature
22:43
@Yvette I don't think most users do that...
it's something we know of and ignore
(normally)
The flag menus should (and probably will) be condensed in the future, but until we have a reason represents a majority or a breaking issue, it's best if we leave this out of the dev pile
@AndrasDeak well youtube, facebook etc all have those features and they're the type of features that are not used frequently by most users
@Yvette In my experience, it is a very underused feature across platforms. SE is successful at spam due to the size of the community and because of teams like us.
@Yvette that was exactly my point:)
Without this team though, you'd see that the smaller sites would quickly get hit will spam that'd stick around for a long time (looking at you Drupal)
22:45
@Andy yes true
@AndrasDeak in this case there are more options than the one, so people get confused apparently
@Andy Drupal mods are very good at removing spam. Other sites like 3D Printing would probably be worse off.
also sometimes people may not realise what spam is
@hichris123 That's fair. I just picked a site that gets hit much more than others.
@Yvette I think it's more like this: people who think of flagging as something that only happens to other people, won't flag if something flaggable stares them in the face
@hichris123 drupal often removes the spam before I get over there to flag it actually
22:47
they will do what they're used to: CVing
I don't think CVing is bad necessarily, people probably associate CVs with "DESTROY DESTROY DESTROY"
good night
sd f
bad q, doesn't look like spam
23:46
Restart: API quota is 8333.
As I go eat dinner, I leave you with this thought:
Circular dependencies suck
@Andy thanks for that, and enjoy your meal
@SmokeDetector f
[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported answer: Pokemon Go, all progress lost? by SloppyMcFloppy on gaming.stackexchange.com
I'd say it's more like N but whatever
23:59
@Quill I get all my feedback of k for those types of posts invalidated
@Bookend yeh it was n sorry I forgot about n
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