Charcoal HQ

BUT if the SE API isn't working, and it doesn't get anything, what will happen is it won't recover those saved posts and then when it saves again it'll overwrite the old pickle and they'll all be gone

if it just gets an empty "items" back, it means all the posts have been deleted

but if it doesn't get anything at all back (which tbh I didn't know that could happen), I guess that should be a bit different

I think ideally it should retry in that situation

Which is, in effect, what it's naturally doing. just... uglier

the only trouble is since it's on the main thread retrying will block the init of other things until it gets a response back

which may not be desirable

(i.e. if it has to retry like 4-5 times it'll take a good 10 seconds or whatever until it starts pinging Metasmoke and posts in chat and all that)

ArtOfCode

Actually, that'd be fine

Do a log('error', 'DeletionWatcher init got bad response from the SE API, retrying'), and retry. Then it's obvious what's happening if you look at the logs.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, luncheon meat detected, no whitespace in body, repeating characters in body, repeating characters in title, +1 more: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx by adryanoo on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to remove white background of an image - java by Abdou on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: Solving systems of equations in 3 variables by Tony Stove on math.SE

tp- by Makyen on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [MS]

Zoe

6:34 PM

@SmokeDetector Undisclosed affiliation

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to remove white background of an image - java by Abdou on stackoverflow.com

tp- by Makyen on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [MS]

Zoe

Um

!!/location

SmokeDetector

@Zoe angussidney/EC2

@Zoe ArtOfCode/EC2

Zoe

!!/standby art

!!/gitstatus

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev c09c866 (SmokeDetector: Auto blacklist of asha24 by Zoe --autopull) (running on ArtOfCode/EC2)

HEAD detached at 939bf36
nothing to commit, working directory clean

Zoe

6:35 PM

!!/pull

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 6fba29a (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of seda-baran\.com by Glorfindel --autopull) (running on angussidney/EC2)

Restart: API quota is 19724.

ArtOfCode

@Zoe I'm tending to keep mine around at the moment because I'm doing a bunch of work, so having mine alive means I can keep an eye on it.

SmokeDetector

tpu- by Makyen on How to remove white background of an image - java [MS]

ArtOfCode/EC2 received failover signal.

ArtOfCode

!!/standby angus

SmokeDetector

angussidney/EC2 is switching to standby

Restart: API quota is 18870.

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 6fba29a (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of seda-baran\.com by Glorfindel --autopull) (running on angussidney/EC2)

fp- by Makyen on Solving systems of equations in 3 variables [MS]

Zoe

6:41 PM

@ArtOfCode oh, ok. I'll keep yours alive next time then :)

ArtOfCode

:)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body: Enabling and connecting to a raspberry pi by George Nostradamos on raspberrypi.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: Solving systems of equations in 3 variables by Tony Stove on math.SE

fp by Zoe

fp- by Makyen

fp by Zoe on Enabling and connecting to a raspberry pi [MS]

Makyen

@SmokeDetector ignore

SmokeDetector

@Makyen Post ignored; alerts about it will no longer be posted.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Returning binary body and http headers from an AWS lambda through API gateway by MesfinMoges on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Makyen

Makyen

6:58 PM

@SmokeDetector Undisclosed affiliation. Left tpu feedback, but did not flag. Most likely, the user just needs to be informed that disclosure is required.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, bad pattern in URL body, +5 more: check outwww.supplementmakehealthy.org/rapid-tone-reviews/ by user899129 on superuser.com

tpu- by Makyen

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: puppet-5 hiera not working by Linux For Everyone on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: удаление элемента односвязного списка by Timur Mahmudov on ru.stackoverflow.com

tp- by Makyen on puppet-5 hiera not working [MS]

Makyen

@SmokeDetector Signature with site. Not flagged. Mod has edited.

SmokeDetector

7:15 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Luncheon meat detected: Display data from database without refreshing (Javascript) by sdfd on stackoverflow.com

fp- by Glorfindel on удаление элемента односвязного списка [MS]

Glorfindel

@SmokeDetector f (signature = FP, unless repeat offender)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: Scipy ode integrate to unknown limit of t, based on the size of solution by Binary option whales on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

Makyen

@Glorfindel OK (changed my feedback). However, that's not how I read the Feedback Guidance, unless we're considering something that looks like a signature to be implicit disclosure. SE specifically doesn't consider implicit disclosure to be acceptable in other links (e.g. it's something we specifically detect). I must admit, I'd assumed that the explicit disclosure requirement applied everywhere (w.r.t. SD feedback).

Glorfindel

I always interpreted it this way: we do not want to block that entire post just because of the signature. Hence it's an FP, just like repairable offensive posts are FP.

Zoe

@Glorfindel If any repairable offense is FP, why is vandalism TP?

Glorfindel

7:30 PM

Because we'd definitely like to block the entire act of vandalism

Makyen

@Glorfindel OK. Then do we want to apply that to all undisclosed affiliation (i.e. for a TP feedback the user must have done it more than once). Note that doing that implies that anything which is automatically making use of such rules would then need to be keeping state on all users and/or fetching all of the user's contributions (potentially including deleted content, or at least previously detected deleted posts) in order to apply the rule. Is that a metric which we are wanting to set up?

Glorfindel

Not really, I guess (but I'm just a single voice here). The idea is that people might be accustomed to leaving signatures under their posts from ~~other~~ fora on the Internet where that is quite common. We want to educate our rules to those users.

If there's an answer with an undisclosed link by a first time user, and the quality of the answer is reasonably good and the link relevant, I'm inclined to give FP feedback, but I'm not sure TBH.

Generally, I edit disclosure into the post and add a comment about the SE policy on self-promotion.

Makyen

I agree that it shouldn't be flagged upon first occurrence. As such, it's reasonable for there to be 'fp' feedback on the first, or even the first few occurrences. I certainly agree and act on that educating the user is the best course. I'm just not sure what the feedback should be.

Glorfindel

Me neither. It happens quite often that after the second undisclosed affiliation, I change my FP on the first instance to TP.

Makyen

7:47 PM

I guess the question is should the feedback be TP based on a strict determination if it's undisclosed affiliation? Should it be based on when we feel it rises to the level of being red-flaggable? Or, when we feel that it is at the point that the user should be informed of SE policy (which now implies a custom mod-flag instead of a comment on sites where one is not otherwise active) (which is mostly a strict determination of it being disclosed/undisclosed).

Glorfindel

when we feel that it is at the point that the user should be informed of SE policy for me, that's already on the first instance.

Otherwise, red flag = TP, but sometimes it's worthwhile to cast a custom flag instead of a straight spam flag, because you can provide some background information to the resident mods.

^ my 2 cents, I'm open to other people's opinions. It might be worthwhile to open a Teams question or a GH issue.

NobodyNada

@Zoe My answer is that we don’t want to tell Smokey it shouldn’t have caught that content. Smokey doesn’t care what a post used to look like; it it sees “ahdifiahfisifi” it’s going to report it, and that’s on purpose. Smokey watches content, not actions.

Glorfindel

@NobodyNada but we do want Smokey to detect repairable offensive posts & signatures.

If we don't want Smokey to catch certain types of content, we need to tweak its regexes; feedback won't help.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in body: OS X problems with Boot Camp Windows installation by junis087678 on superuser.com

fp- by Glorfindel

Makyen

8:03 PM

@Glorfindel I think that we agree on the basics of: the user should be informed of SE policy upon first occurrence, which shouldn't be flagged unless the user refuses to edit in disclosure or reverts the disclosure added by others. In addition, we agree that multiple occurrences should be flagged: sometimes red-flags, sometimes custom flags, depending on circumstances. I think where we're unclear is only at what point we should be giving TP vs. FP feedback.

Which feedback to give largely depends on what the feedbacks are eventually going to be used for. If the detection is used to prevent the user from being able to submit the post (and being informed of the disclosure requirement), then we would want TP on any undisclosed affiliation. If the detection is used to automatically delete the post without informing the user, then we would want TP only at the point which it rises to being a red-flag.

NobodyNada

Hmm...I don't think I agree with many of the points in the new blog post

"It makes me sad when someone get downvoted for posting a duplicate" -- seriously??

Zoe

@NobodyNada Many people in the Tavern don't either

NobodyNada

@Zoe grabs popcorn

Zoe

@NobodyNada Did you bring enough for EVERYONE?! :p

Glorfindel

@Makyen my current modus operandi is the second part of your message + retroactively marking older posts as TP.

SmokeDetector

8:31 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: Use of "Holocaust" in The Great Gatsby by Incertus 3 on english.SE

fp- by Glorfindel

Makyen

@SmokeDetector ignore-

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, luncheon meat detected, repeating characters in body: Java Guessing game 'might not be initialized' by someones on stackoverflow.com

Glorfindel

@SmokeDetector v

SmokeDetector

8:51 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching email in body: Модернизация обычной загрузки изображений в многозагрузочную by Алексей Креклин on ru.stackoverflow.com

fp- by Glorfindel

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, potentially bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected: Are Shiva & Vishnu etymologically connected? by John on hinduism.SE (@NogShine)

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in username, toxic answer detected: What should a vaishnavite do if forced by social pressure to wear ashes on his forehead? by Supravat on hinduism.SE (@NogShine)

tpu- by Glorfindel on Are Shiva & Vishnu etymologically connected? [MS]

tpu- by Glorfindel

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Multiple try codes in one block by Mostafa Bahri on stackoverflow.com

Glorfindel

@SmokeDetector f

Zoe

9:10 PM

@SmokeDetector fp-

WELZ

Who names their products this kinda stuff?!

Glorfindel

> ... uses state-of-the-art technology to make sure your Python code runs whether it has any right to or not. Some code has an error? F*** it.

It's based on this JS library:

FAQ

1) Is this a good idea?

Of course not. This is quite possibly the worst javascript plugin ever written.

ArtOfCode

@Glorfindel I love the license on this

Glorfindel

hehe

Zoe

> If the Author of the Software (the "Author") needs a place to crash and you have a sofa available, you should maybe give the Author a break and let him sleep on your couch.

If you are caught in a dire situation wherein you only have enough time to save one person out of a group, and the Author is a member of that group, you must save the Author.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BLAH BLAH BLAH ISN'T IT FUNNY HOW UPPER-CASE MAKES IT SOUND LIKE THE LICENSE IS ANGRY AND SHOUTING AT YOU.

7

Possibly the best license ever xD

SmokeDetector

9:19 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Creating overlay on an image using Leaflet by Peter Thomson on stackoverflow.com

Henders

What's going on with the smokeys starting up seeminly randomly? I've seen it about 3 times in the last few days that one smokey is running fine and another just starts.

Like here: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/44230336#44230336

Makyen

@Glorfindel Regarding our earlier conversation: the most recent SD report would be undisclosed affiliation. It's not something I'd red-flag (I'd comment and let the user know about policy). It was edited by a moderator, and the moderator supplied tpu- feedback. I'm not using it as an example for what we should do. It's just another example of what is being done and that what's done is not consistent right now.

Glorfindel

Yeah, I agree, that's not really consistent.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: Automated forecasting of 1000 weekly time series (food product retail) by user206086 on stats.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: show and hide toggle js by TMDesigns on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, potentially bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected: How shall a foreigner develop their practice of Sanātana Dharma? by Mike on hinduism.SE (@NogShine)

tpu- by Makyen

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: I'm getting favicon.ico error by Petya Kostova on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by ByteCommander on Automated forecasting of 1000 weekly time series (food product retail) [MS]

fp- by ByteCommander on show and hide toggle js [MS]

fp- by ByteCommander

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 5530733: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

ArtOfCode

9:53 PM

also needs deploy @Undo

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: Wordpress ACF: Using a page (with a specific page template) as a CPT archive page by Jenet James on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: How do I count matches in Excel using an array of criteria? by H. Gershen on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Makyen on Wordpress ACF: Using a page (with a specific page template) as a CPT archive page [MS]

fp- by Makyen

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, potentially bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected: Five Angles in a Star by jolie on puzzling.SE (@Mithrandir)

tpu- by Mithrandir

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: WP_Query: Query posts only if their access is restricted to logged user's role by James jenet on wordpress.SE

tpu- by Makyen

Makyen

10:18 PM

!!/watch floralenders001

SmokeDetector

@Makyen Added floralenders001 to watchlist

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected, potentially bad keyword in body: Is kingdom crush safe by user261760 on android.SE

tp- by Mithrandir

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 4599b13 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of floralenders001 by Makyen --autopull) (running on ArtOfCode/EC2)

Restart: API quota is 16874.

Makyen

Oh, the fun of being pinged when you forgot you had multiple different profiles/browsers logged in and viewing the chat page (for testing). goes and closes some tabs/browsers

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Squid Proxy - Hiding the proxy by Kyle Plunkett on serverfault.com

naa by WELZ

Undo

10:35 PM

@ArtOfCode looks shiftily around this looks like something you're gonna tell me to use

:P

ArtOfCode

@Undo Heh, more like something I'm gonna tell myself to use... and just did, because I had a bunch of old dead sites.

but the deploy is more for the route constraints, without those we break on meta site API params

Undo

yeah, eta 10s

SmokeDetector

naa- by Makyen

fp- by Makyen on Is kingdom crush safe [MS]

Undo

done

ArtOfCode

!!/pull

SmokeDetector

10:41 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 4599b13 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of floralenders001 by Makyen --autopull) (running on ArtOfCode/EC2)

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

wth is that pic @art

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 16703.

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

and where tf are my stickerz

>.<

Undo

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs That pic is an important part of this room's history :P

ArtOfCode

"that pic"?

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs I pinged you a couple days ago about 'em

Mithrandir

10:42 PM

That is classic Art.

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

No one wants classic Art :D

ArtOfCode

!!/rev

SmokeDetector

@ArtOfCode ArtOfCode/EC2 4599b13 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of floralenders001 by Makyen --autopull)

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

@ArtOfCode Just giving you a hard time as usual

Undo

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs I almost read that as an insult. Reading it the other way, though, is way more entertaining

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

10:48 PM

@ArtOfCode Oh see it now. Thanks!

SmokeDetector

11:04 PM

CI on 24c1d2f succeeded.

ArtOfCode

yay more coverage

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Storing Secret Key for Smart Contracts by sacarlson on stellar.SE

fp- by doppelgreener

doppelgreener

@SmokeDetector association stated just after the first links

SmokeDetector

11:22 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title, toxic body detected: How can the user Anisha widen her pussy? by John on hinduism.SE (@NogShine)

tpu- by Makyen

WELZ

11:39 PM

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs neds moar of teh stikerz

Transcript for