@BESW sweats yeah those shy people am I right?

Not making eye contact, I mean come on XD :P

obviously

XD

@doppelgreener bisexual vs bipolar? :P

(or biphasic, or bilingual, or aint no lie baby bi bi bi)

Korra's Dog is the one that's Polar

@goodguy5 they are both bisexual.

@doppelgreener yeah, that’s true, which is why we use ambiguous phrasing since otherwise we wouldn’t fit descriptions in a character sheet or anywhere

@doppelgreener But that doesn't actually have anything to their gender, all that their gender influences is what kind of people trigger it

And shyness. Shyness is a clearly defined term. It can manifest as anxiety (the apologizing), or not opening up (fear what others might think), but those are all still within the definition of what shyness is, and while it can be a little different for everyone, it's not so different as to be unrecognizable if it manifests differently between two people.

Any given gender doesn't have any traits that can be specifically associated with it other than the trait of who you are or aren't attracted too

I don't see why their gender has anything to do with what I said. I didn't bring it up.

I'm talking about how a personality trait mentioning someone's sexuality is not inherently any more ambiguous than other possible personality traits

@doppelgreener Mistyped, meant sexuality

> And bi-ness. bi-ness is a clearly defined term. It can manifest as being suave and knows your power (around any gender), or turns into an enormous dork around someone attractive, but those are all still within the definition of what bi-ness is, and while it can be a little different for everyone, it's not so different as to be unrecognizable if it manifests differently between two people.

realized my mistake after the edit window closed

that still works

why not?

Sure it does?

Because those same things can happen on someone who's heterosexual, or homosexual, or any other sexuality. It's not a factor of who you're attracted too, it's a factor of your personality that causes those outcomes.

Sure?

There's at least three or four bi people talking about their experiences here, and it's not really cool to be lectured about why one is wrong about their own lives. Or put another way, if one has to look up the definition of disaster bi, one might be on the "listening" end of this conversation rather than the "explaining" end.

I could equally say "gay as hell" but they're not gay

and I would not, actually, say these things with the words "straight as hell" because that implies extremely different things

This is an excellent opportunity for learning.

@BESW and at that, I should shut up and start listening

@BESW Yeah like honestly I am describing terminology that we actually use in the queer community and being told "no that doesn't work", so like ... I don't know what's going on here really

@BESW yes. This. And the same thing applies to gender and anything else

My point is, if the character were gay vs het vs bi vs any other, reacting like a giant dork around people they're attracted too isn't a function of them being bi, it's a function of their personality

@RevenantBacon That's why I wrote "bi as heck"

I didn't write "bi"

I feel like that's splitting hairs

I think you might not be hearing me if you think it's splitting hairs

and not in a constructive way

@doppelgreener and I am all of those XD

@BESW it is true, which is why the guidance for personality traits is to be more specific than that

"Bi as heck" and "gay as heck" are functioning personality descriptors we actually use that mean things and if you think they mean the same thing as just describing "that person's bisexual" or "that person's gay", you're not clued in on what those terms mean.

@doppelgreener to me either of those terms mean "falls in love super easy"

@TheDragonOfFlame that's about the right direction

@doppelgreener OK then, enlighten me, tell me what the difference is.

someone could also be straight as heck..

notably, super opposite to if i said "straight as hell" which would imply things like being super defensive and fragile around how someone would be perceived and being the kind of person to say "no homo"

@RevenantBacon I've been describing it. I described it for Korra and Asami.

The difference between just being "bi" and being "bi as heck" is that people who are "bi" are confident, and people who are "bi as heck" are massive dorks?

@RevenantBacon no?

@RevenantBacon no

I used the exact same descriptor for both characters

Lots of discussions of this have begun here, and most of them have been derailed by people without the experience deciding to lecture on the issue. At this point I wouldn't blame anybody who feels a deep apathy about demands that now they need to explanation themselves.

Right, I misremembered and re-read what you wrote

Yeah I am not in a headspace where I am ready and willing to define queer terminology

Please take it from me that "she's gay" and "she's gay as hell" are extremely different statements

And the latter means things well beyond defining someone's sexuality

obviously all these terms have different meanings to everybody.. you could say 'bi as heck' to one person and they might read it as if that meant the person was defensive of their sexuality or something.. much different then how it was meant. There are no universal definitions, really, for anything in the LGBTQ+ community which is why it pays to be careful

And, you know, actually means things about someone's personality, which is why I said "bi as heck" and used it as a personality descriptor for Korra and for Asami, because it is a personality descriptor

I'll just have to assume that in whatever gay community you're a part of, that's correct then. Still not a personality trait

Okay, I'm not going to try to continue talking to you about this

> obviously all these terms have different meanings to everybody

That's My point

They have a different meaning, and can't be used as a description for personality

"No, you are wrong about your own terminology and cannot use it the way you are alleging it is literally used in your own culture"

because saying any one particular thing about any sexuality is not right to do

Can we all take a deep breath and step back a bit? This is getting a little out of hand

It's not about culture, it's about language

You're lecturing us on queer culture's language

You even appear to be saying that using the words "gay as hell" to imply something about someone's personality is "not right to do"

@RevenantBacon language is a part of culture

@BESW This is what kills me about the answers to the mainsite question. People are effectively lecturing Bardic and the group about how they should perceive themselves.

Because it isn't

I do not think you have the experience or knowledge with this topic

It is about culture, at least about terminology that our culture uses

that you think you have

Saying that a particular sexuality has specific traits isn't good

It's barely a step over from transphobic

Okay, let's be real clear. @RevenantBacon You need to back down. You're bringing a dictionary to a discussion on experience and you've been told it's not welcome here. It's presumptive, condescending, and you need to stop now and walk away for a while.

(auughh stop it)

The points you're making about broad gender coding have been made already, with more nuance, by queer people in this chat.

Saying that certain sexualities have certain traits is incredibly presumptive

Please stop.

And those points are not going to bring you to the conclusion you're arriving at.

I am a trans person. I am a queer person. I am a bisexual person. You do not get to say "using words like 'gay as heck' and 'bi as heck' is barely a step over from transphobic."

You are flatly and offensively wrong here.

Kick muted. First time lasts for one minute. Take it to calm down.

This conversation is over at the behest of multiple people.

I don't disagree with anyone, but people have their own opinions and should keep them to themselves. No hard feelings either way I should hope

Here's the thing, as far as I'm aware, I've never stated my sexuality. I assume that you're all assuming that I'm straight, which is fine, you've got a good 97% chance of being right. but I haven't stated, nor do I intend to state what my sexuality is

This is escalating, not calming down. I’m bowing out so I can keep my temper

The conversation is over. Any further continuance will result in a kick-ban.

Goodbye

Can anybody help me find the context of this Ursula K. Le Guin quote?

> The direction of escape is toward freedom. So what is ‘escapism’ an accusation of?

Good Reads claims No Time to Spare: Thinking About What Matters

Yeah, but I can't track down any context around the quote without buying the whole book?

It seems like a rhetorical question but I don't want to assume I know the answer because Le Guin's probably smarter than me about this stuff.

Another quote listed on Good Reads:

> As for the charge of escapism, what does escape mean? Escape from real life, responsibility, order, duty, piety, is what the charge implies. But nobody, except the most criminally irresponsible or pitifully incompetent, escapes to jail. The direction of escape is toward freedom. So what is “escapism” an accusation of?

@BESW as an aside did you watch any of Mike Hill's videos?

No, I've been trying to finish Dawn of the Dead for three nights running and keep getting dragged off into something else.

@Someone_Evil Thanks, that... helps a little? Maybe I'll understand it better in the morning.

And my art today was trying to remember the week of animation training I took 15 years ago and applying it to Procreate, which required a lot of brain.

@BESW thats cool, is that the old school zombie movie?

Aye. Second in Romero's Living Dead franchise which accidentally redefined zombies forever.

→ 1 message moved to ­Trash

Zombies aren't a monster I'm into, cannibalism is a major no-no for me, but Dawn is weirdly okay to watch.

@BESW personally or narratively?

:D

Both!

(Oh, and before I forget: It looks to me like ROs handled things well, so by the time I got to it there was nothing which needed doing. I'll just leave the gentle reminder that we're expecting the same behavior here as in general, and to listed to your fellow users and doubly so to ROs if they ask a topic be dropped)

@BESW late, but that might be a good question to put on the beta litterature SE which is trying to become a full site..

@TheDragonOfFlame From the way @Randal'Thor has been recently, I think Lit is hungry for questions

Did I just get pinged into a dragon's lair?

Or dragged into a pingon's lair, perhaps.

@Randal'Thor ha! Welcome to rpg.se lol I was advertising for your site

Babblegum Sam wrote a twitter thread about Japanese body horror/cyberpunk why I FUCKING LOVE TOKYO GORE POLICE and ultraviolent fiction. CW graphic/bizarre violence. Also CW for images of genital-focused body horror.