last day (250 days later) » 

3:09 PM
First
 
@BESW @NautArch @Miniman @kviiri I've added you as RO's here since you are in main chat as well. If anybody wants not to be let me know.
This is our new room for opt-in conversations. Not A Bar has transitioned fully into what it was evolving into: a place for off-topic, pleasant conversations that don't belong or aren't preferred in the main chat. This room is for conversations that don't belong in the main chat for other reasons and will be opt-in only.
5
 
We should probably also announce this change in TRPG general chat. Just in case people are confused.
 
and change the room description
 
yep
 
Good, now that I've gathered all four mods and NautArch in the same room...
 
Readies dragon-slaying arrows
 
@ThomasMarkov I'm now very concerned we've fallen into your trap. Please don't start an evil monologue.
 
We've definitely fulfilled some sort of evil prophecy.
 
I think the overall community response to our recent meta discussions has been great.
 
3:26 PM
@ThomasMarkov To be clear you are referring to this meta?
 
Yes.
I feel like we've said everything that needs to be said, but not continuing the conversation also doesnt feel like resolution.
 
@ThomasMarkov Yes. I'm rather proud that the community in general presented such a clear and well reasoned response. But as you say, there isn't much more to say without repeating ourselves.
 
@Rubiksmoose do you get special powers in chats across the network?
 
on the chat.SE server, yes
there are technically two others: chat.MSE, and chat.SO
 
@ThomasMarkov Yes, mods have mod powers in all chat.SE rooms. You might occasionally notice other users with blue usernames in chat that aren't mods of rpg.se.
 
4:19 PM
@Rubiksmoose aye aye cap'n!
 
Not gonna lie, watching some random person argue with @Rubiksmoose is kind of entertaining.
@Rubiksmoose Have you watched That 70s Show?
 
@ThomasMarkov I have not.
 
Oh well.
There's a character that says "Good day" to end and conversation. And when people don't leave he says angrily "I said good day".
 
4:34 PM
lol. The thing about trying to flex is that it isn't really ever going to work against a mod. I'll never get why people get worked up over being told to act like an adult.
 
Show is a bit harder to watch after the Hyde stuff came out
And that's an opt-in conversation :P
 
He was finally charged in June
 
darn good thing
 
4:57 PM
@Rubiksmoose I find its about a 50/50 chance of it happening when you go into another sites room from a chat flag. People seem to really resent "other mods" telling them to behave.
 
Very true
 
@ThomasMarkov I didn't even know that quote/reference was from That '70s Show
Anyway, I feel like I'm using the opt-in conversation channel for general overflow with that remark :P
 
5:22 PM
Can I suggest an addition to the room description?: "Avoid using this room for an all-purpose hangout; treat it like a meeting room."
 
room topic changed to Here There Be Dragons: For topics that should be opt-in, not opt-out. Please respect the room's purpose and treat it as a meeting room more than a casual general-purpose hangout. Good and respectful conduct is expected of all visitors, exactly as in the main chat. (no tags)
Is it good? I made the conduct expectation thing a bit more verbose because it was so succinct it was feeling a bit too much like jargon to me
 
That's great. :)
 
5:46 PM
Perfect
 
6:14 PM
Thank you! Feel free to amend as desired and needed of course.
 
 
3 hours later…
9:20 PM
@ThomasMarkov rpg.se absolutely needs to have some very heavy conversations about its complicity in silently supporting Wizards of the Coast and D&D. But the current prompt is not a productive one for those conversations, so I'm okay with leaving that meta to be what it is and not trying to make it more.
 
GcL
9:58 PM
How many users only play D&D? Not supporting D&D as a game on the stack would likely eliminate a lot of users.
 
10:23 PM
5e alone is 40% of our questions.
Including other editions D&D is 60% of all the stack’s questions.
 
@ThomasMarkov Are you sure? I thought it was higher than that
 
Napkin math gave me 25k out of 41k
 
Ahh... I was thinking of page views which is in the 80-90% (source)
 
Do you know how to figure out how many questions we’ve had in the last 90 days?
 
But I don't think banning D&D is a serious contender for the outcome of such discussions, nor really what was suggested. The most obvious, to me, thing to address is the "silently" aspect
 
GcL
10:35 PM
@Someone_Evil So vocally support it? /S
 
That doesn’t seem right at all.
There were 616 DnD-5e tagged questions in the last 90 days.
 
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/search?q=is%3Aq+created%3A3m..
 
GcL
@Someone_Evil What are some decent alternatives proposed?
 
693/1023 questions from July 1st to September 30th were tagged DnD-5e.
...and I think I answered an alarmingly high percentage of those...
 
@GcL I haven't really got any proposals to make. I'm mostly thinking in terms of how to start that discussion, and frame that, because framing it towards throwing out most of the site and activity, isn't going to be useful either
 
GcL
10:47 PM
I'm trying to think of sticks or carrots or links to information kind of approaches. The questions I have is what is the goal of such approaches, and how does one measure the efficacy of the approach of attaining that goal?
 
11:06 PM
@Someone_Evil yeeeah, banning D&D is a wildly extreme interpretation of a very mild statement, and one I've explicitly spoken against myself in the past.
[baffled]
It's a big, complicated conversation that can't be boiled down to "thing good" or "thing bad."
Wizards is undeniably comfortable with upholding an exploitative and permissive work environment.
That doesn't mean we should demonize people like Orion Black who recognize that it's one of their only paths to a sustainable full-time career, or the creators in places like Indonesia and the Philippines who don't have ready access to other platforms for reasons of international finance policies, or the many marginalized people who have found joy and empowerment through the consumption of its products.
We can't go "You hate capitalism and yet I see you have a job" on this thing, that's so obviously ridiculous it shouldn't even be part of the conversation.
But we can't be precious about this site either; the viability of rpg.se isn't very important alongside the scope of the industry's major issues. The site's existence cannot be treated as its own justification.
I'd love to see a conversation about whether/how there's a way rpg.se can be more supportive of the ways people empower and uplift each other through D&D, and more explicit about navigating the major problems that come with it, and less friendly to Wizards apologia and racist dogwhistles.
There's a lot of auteur theory that needs to burn, for example.
 
11:30 PM
I'd hope that such a conversation focused on what can be done, more than what can be not done: helping the site be better about uplifting, empowering, and encouraging. Part of that is learning how to identify problems without kicking out the people who have to live with them.
It's been my experience that principles of action are much more useful and sustainable than principles of inaction.
 
GcL
What I'm hearing as goals are:
- be more supportive of the ways people empower and uplift each other through D&D
- be more explicit about navigating the major problems that come with D&D
- be less friendly to Wizards apologia and racist dogwhistles
What are some ways of measuring that those things are accomplished or how well they're being accomplished?
 
(My personal goals are almost entirely devoid of D&D influence, being more about prying open spaces where marginalized creators can thrive without being subject to Wizards and its ilk; my goals also don't include giving the Stack Exchange more content value. But I'm somewhat invested in this side alley of the rpg.se space, and I'm always curious to see how communities curate themselves.)
 
11:49 PM
As less D&D centric version of that would be:
- Be more supportive of the ways people empower and uplift each other through TTRPGs
- Be more explicit about navigating the major problems many existing TTRPGs
- Be less accepting of publishers apologia and racist dogwhistles
 
I think principles of action can be generalized to a certain extent, yes.
But Wizards is, specifically, a problem, and I think that any action which talks around D&D as if it's not the elephant rampaging through the house, will be timid and insufficient.
 

  last day (250 days later) »