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12:41 AM
What D&D campaign would you guys recommend buying
 
Depends. How experienced are the DM/players? What kinds of play do they normally like or dislike?
 
We are pretty good I the DM am the most skilled. We mostly do casual but sometimes we go extremely competitive. I was kinda thinking about Getting tomb of annihilation.
 
1:00 AM
I had success with using the Tomb of Horrors Super-Adventure as a spine for a full 1-to-30 campaign, and filling in the gaps with selections from Dungeon adventure paths, but I don't know what the 5e equivalent would be.
 
1:18 AM
@TrevorFait More specifically, what sort of things do they enjoy in TTRPGs? Mystery & investigation? Epic stories? Character-focused story & drama? Dungeon crawling?
 
@TrevorFait ToA, being half-hexcrawl half-dungeon-crawl, can take some DM legwork to fill in gaps
it's also a campaign that is not built around encounter balance. it's normal and expected to run away from or simply avoid encounters in the jungle in ToA; trying to fight everything you see there is a really good TPK recipe, even
 
@Miniman Well, you'll always have the newest version of the content contained in WGTE. The new Eberron book reprints the character options, but seems to add more DM-facing content in the form of monsters and an included adventure. Mearls did say when WGTE came out that a potential hardcover would likely reprint character options but otherwise be complementary
@TrevorFait - @nitsua60 has been DMing ToA for some of us, he can probably tell you a bit about his experience
 
1:47 AM
6
Q: Should my "average" PC be able to discern the potential of encountering a gelatinous cube from subtle clues?

ToweringTroubleRelatively new to DnD/TTRPGs. Playing a Barb with +0 to INT and -1 to WIS. I just realized that my party might be walking right into a gelatinous cube. What is considered "average" intelligence and wisdom? Would my character be able to reason through subtle clues that we might be wandering throug...

 
@Shalvenay doing Ok, was afk for a bit, and now heading to bed. long day.
 
2:09 AM
OK sweet ty for all the hel[
 
@TrevorFait did you see MikeQ's question re: what sort of stuff your table wants in their TTRPG experience?
 
2:57 AM
Yeah
I sent out a txt to our group chat asking
 
3:14 AM
@vicky_molokh Thanks for following up on this.
@JohnClifford If you like gamified assembly programming, you would like anything by Zachtronics.
Who, incidentally, is the developer of Manufactoria
 
 
1 hour later…
4:30 AM
@V2Blast Oh, I didn't trust them enough to buy it. I just feel bad for anyone who did.
 
4:47 AM
2
Q: Is Eldritch Blast affected by antimagic field

irishtatertot25I am working on a campaign in 3.5e and the big baddy is a hellfire warlock. When the players are going through the campaign I am guessing they will be around level 4 at this point. My question is, because there is an NPC at level 15 to even the playing field a bit, does and antimagic field canc...

3
Q: What happens when two creatures actually share the same turn?

Medix2Related to this Q/A ("Does a controlled mount share its rider's turn?") where there doesn't seem to be a consensus on whether or not the rider and their mount actually share a turn. I am left wondering what even happens when things do share a turn: The true polymorph spell states: Object int...

 
@Miniman I mean, Mearls basically said exactly this back when WGTE was released - that some character options would likely be reprinted in both but that the books themselves would be complementary
 
@V2Blast Ah, I missed that. Still, from everything I can find it does seem like WGtE is going to be a strict subset of the new book.
 
WGTE had a bit on Khorvaire in general and a bit on Sharn, but yeah, I think it's mostly character options
Actually the lore on Khorvair and Sharn in WGTE is 40 pages each
 
 
2 hours later…
6:45 AM
1
Q: Rogue/Artificer multiclass skill proficiency

AveryThis is for d&d 5e. I can't find the rules for multiclassing into artificer. My character is starting out with Rogue through level 3 and then going into artificer, after which I will bounce back and forth. Which skill proficiency do I get? Rogues normally get 4 and artificers normally get 2, ...

 
7:24 AM
Good morning
 
Morning
 
8:28 AM
Wow I just found out about this RPG card generator which actually lets you put your own text inside the cards ! Awesome for homebrew spells, or for foreign players !
4
I might also use it to make my players a cheat sheet for available actions in combat
*cheat card
 
Nice, I need to bookmark this
 
8:44 AM
That's really cool.
 
Yeah kudos to the authors
 
9:27 AM
Bonjour
 
Salut
 
I could probably carry this conversation on for approximately two and a half exchanges more before running out of my middle-school French, but for the benefit of the non-francophones of the chat room, I'll stick to English: how's it going?
 
Lol fine thanks, if all goes well I should do my first session with my newbie group this weekend (dnd-5e, Strahd)
What about you ?
 
Trying to cope with some rough stuff in life, but finding unhealthy degrees of solace in work and music :-)
Nah, that sounds a bit too grim. Also pushing to enjoy the Summer before it ends
Also listening to lots of piano music to get a feel for some pieces
 
Well I hope you work it out, music does help during rough patches
cool, do you play ?
 
9:40 AM
@PierreCathé Yeah, I'm a not-too-serious pianist. I started too late and too lazily to be a pro --- it's always been a secondary hobby to gaming stuff and I took an almost three year break at one point, started again in May last year.
I almost never get to play to anyone though
Pianos used to be quite standard for middle class housing here but nowadays fewer and fewer people up here have one
I reckon they might be more common in the countryside where detached houses are more common --- old acoustic ones don't go too well with block housing x)
 
Nice, I'm an amateur cellist myself, just started again after a long break too
 
Cool! What prompted you to come back to it?
 
@kviiri I know what you mean, I live in an apartment so I had to buy a mute
 
For me, the break ended when I borrowed my piano away for a week --- and as soon as it was gone I realized how much I missed playing it.
@PierreCathé Oof, yeah, at least digital pianos are easy. You have no such solace :(
 
@kviiri I guess moving into a new apartment, transporting the cello and putting it on display in its new room, I realised I'd like to play it again
@kviiri Haha well electric cellos are a thing, and I ordered a practice mute that should do the trick
 
9:45 AM
@PierreCathé Funny how these things often stem from very little things!
 
@kviiri I know right, just looking at it from another angle makes you want it again
 
@PierreCathé Oh, I didn't know that! Are electrics a comparable experience to acoustic instruments? With pianos, it varies a lot between cheap toy keyboards to really awesome hybrid pianos, but there are even fairly affordable ones that feel like an actual piano.
 
@kviiri I can't say, I never tried one. I've only ever had the one cello, which my parents bought for me after a year renting for lessons
I guess the cheap ones would be pretty bad though
Even without the resonance problems, it's hard to make an acoustically sound cello
 
"acoustically sound" is a fun pair of words
:)
I haven't played to any audience apart from various partygoers at student speakeasies and block parties in ages. Now I signed up to play at a company party, like on an actual stage. I'm a bit freaked out :P
 
Haha nice, what kind of music do you play ?
 
9:52 AM
Ragtime
 
Don't freak out, even great pros get some notes wrong
 
I have a very small set list so far though: there are four pieces I could conceivably play. I'll probably play just one. I am practicing two more pieces at this time but I won't have them ready by then
 
Yeah don't overshoot for a first time, better play something you're comfortable with
It's a great feeling, if you let it, especially if it's a step out of your comfort zone ;)
 
Currently the favorite is the ever-so-great Maple Leaf Rag. I mean, it's easily one of Joplin's best works, and I play it better than the other pieces mainly because of lots and lots of grinding. The only major downside is that it's what every ragtime player plays, except if they go for The Entertainer, and as such people might be primed to hear it more as an amateurish rendition :P
I can also play Joplin's Magnetic Rag and Elite Syncopations but Magnetic is a bit sombre --- I have a huge personal admiration for the piece because it blends ragtime, usually associated with revelry and celebration, with more sorrowful bits. I'm not sure if it's a good piece for an audience that doesn't really know what to expect. Elite Syncopations is a fun piece but a tad less impressive, IMO, than the other two Joplin pieces
And as my ace up my sleeve, I can pull of Joseph Lamb's Champagne Rag if I get to practice a bit beforehand. It's one of my favorites even if it has a bit of stereotypical honky tonk feel to it. It might actually be desirable here.
@PierreCathé Yeah I've been whining for ages about never getting to play to anyone. Getting to play now must be some sort of karmic reward/punishment, only I get to choose how I want to take it
 
Well kudos to you, and I wouldn't worry too much about what other people might be expecting to hear, in the end trust your gut on what goes well and what you can pull off
 
9:59 AM
Aye!
Do you play in an orchestra? Or a band?
There was that one metal-ish band that featured lots of cello in their music
 
Cure Light Wounds: Sometimes, it's the little things that really cure those wounds. A simple addition to casting the spell, for use in any game that has it. Submission by Viditya Voleti for the Cure Light Wounds Jam.
 
Yeah Ive done some chamber music (string quartet galore) and symphonic orchestra (about a year with the Orchestre symphonique du campus d'orsay) but then university took most of my time and I stopped playing for about 5 years
I just picked it up now and will be trying some solo pieces first
@kviiri I know about these guys who do covers of pop/rock songs with cellos
Well I'm out for lunch
 
See ya!
@BESW For 5e, this'd be especially appropriate for the more popular healing spell since it's called Healing Word. I approve of this idea!
Doing nice things to your fellow players as a part of the game is a really cool idea and I want to explore that territory... mental notes commence.
 
10:22 AM
@kviiri Golden Sky Stories and Cozy Town both have a mechanic where every person at the table can give any other person useful token currency for making the game better (making them laugh, being helpful, furthering the game's explicit goals, etc).
 
@PierreCathé Studies tend to to that to most hobbies
 
11:14 AM
@BESW it's an extremely good mechanic that should be in more games
 
@BESW Hi, I noticed you removed links to your games in your profile page, did they leave beta status ?
 
@Medix2 One thing that probably backs up my answer is that Whirlwind Attack is one of the choices for Multiattack, and it's been established (correct me if I'm wrong) that Multiattack is its own action separate from the Attack action.
 
@PierreCathé Not yet, I'm in the process of thinking about where to put them and also my profile keeps hitting the character count.
 
Gotcha !
 
@PierreCathé Curse of Strahd is really fun, I'm sure you'll have a blast!
Though if you're GMing, try to remember that the book doesn't give you any specifics on how to play Strahd or where/when to have encounters with him occur, so keep opportunities in the back of your mind so you don't forget to use him. ^_^
 
11:24 AM
@JohnClifford Oh I wouldn't worry about that if I were you
As a self-proclaimed sadistic bastard, I have many ideas of how to mess with the players
 
:D excellent.
 
First off the first time they seem to be getting very friendly with an NPC, Strahd will probably somehow kill him gruesomely in front of everyone
 
I just recently did the big reveal for my group that the "Ireena" who had been accompanying them since they were in Barovia was actually Strahd in disguise; he bit the druid, charmed her to tell him everything she knows about the party that he didn't already get from his interactions with them, wiped her memory of the event, then attacked them to test their abilities.
 
and I've got a few ideas on improvising charmed-betrayal
@JohnClifford nice !
 
He left the high elf cleric a letter offering to let her leave Barovia if she joins him and betrays the party, but she told them about it so he has his sights on the druid and fighter now. He's basically making a game out of trying to get one of them to turn on the others.
 
11:30 AM
@JohnClifford That's... really good. I've seen suggestions online of having Strahd offer freedom to the PCs but only offering it to one of them is next-level evil
 
In a later session (the next one we're able to have in person probably) I'm going to try enticing the party to Castle Ravenloft for dinner and a chat, and Strahd is going to give each party member an envelope and two pieces of paper: one saying "stay" and one saying "leave". He'll ask them to put the one they want to do in the envelope and hand it back.
But I've prepared a "dummy" envelope that has one leave and a stay for party members - 1, and just as he says one of them appears to have already given up I'm going to switch envelopes, drop it on the table, and tell them he vanishes in a cloud of mist, leaving them to discuss.
 
Oho so a rigged vote
 
Yeah. ^_^
I've had the envelope prepared for weeks but we never got the chance to use it last time everyone was over.
And I can't really pull a switcheroo on MapTool. XD
 
@JohnClifford What do you mean? A ranger with multi-attack (from being polymorphed) can use multi-attack as the attack in whirlwind attack?
 
No, I mean when you hit 11th level, you gain the Multiattack feature, where you get the choice between Whirlwind Attack and Volley.
 
11:40 AM
Oh I agree the "Whirlwind Attack action" is an action unto itself
Class features which require actions are their own actions entirely
 
Your question about making a melee spell attack is an interesting one. I'm still having a think about that.
 
I just really don't understand how you can allow it to make a melee weapon attack (bypassing its normal requirement of the Attack action) but not allow it to make a melee spell attack (bypassing its normal requirement of the Cast A Spell action)
 
You're right in your argument that dealing damage with a weapon requires you to use the Attack action, so it's not mechanically any different from dealing damage with a spell's melee spell attack via Cast a Spell.
Because otherwise how would you know what the attack roll and damage were going to be?
 
And features which allow for melee weapon attacks explicitly say so
 
Yeah.
You've convinced me.
Thematically and logically it makes no sense, but RAW would appear to allow it.
 
11:43 AM
Oh agreed on the lack of logic/sense/theme
Like, that's the entirety of what steel wind strike is for
 
That's potentially pretty broken since it would allow you to use Inflict Wounds on multiple targets without using a spell slot.
 
Question: is it a rule that if you rent a room at an inn in a city and rest there for the night, you're going to have a full 8 hour rest? Or is there an (optional) rule about an encounter table that might mess with that rest and that a DM might roll on? Stuff like a mosquito keeping you awake, a burglar breaking in at night and stealing 7d10+6 GP from your purse, exceptionally loud neighbours arguing, one of the barmaids sneaking into your bed at midnight,...
Like, I don't have the books and I don't have a group, and I know you guys don't like hypothetical situations as questions
 
Used in hand-to-hand combat, a melee attack allows you to attack a foe within your reach. A melee attack typically uses a handheld weapon such as a sword, a warhammer, or an axe. A typical monster makes a melee attack when it strikes with its claws, horns, teeth, tentacles, or other body part. A few spells also involve making a melee attack.
That's from the SRD.
Might be helpful to include that last sentence in your answer.
@Nzall I don't recall seeing any actual published rules about rest interruptions during an inn visit, but the "DM has the final say" rule means that you could absolutely do that if you want to. If you have a legitimate reason to interrupt them and it isn't going to cause a huge disruption I'd say go for it.
Be careful you don't end up prompting a question like Our DM keeps interrupting our long rests though!
 
Yeah, I know. I was just wondering if there's some kind of encounter table I might be able to use for this, because most of them AFAIK are based on outdoors interruptions
 
I think you'd have to make your own.
Doesn't sound like there are many things there that would interrupt for at least an hour, so it would add some flavour to the rest without actually stopping it.
"If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it." might be relevant here.
dndspeak.com/2018/02/100-tavern-encounters this might have some useful stuff for you as well.
 
11:51 AM
So I assume that would include the barmaid example as a possible interruption?
 
Yeah. The way I'd do it is to make a table of possible interruptions and have some sort of flag to denote "one-time" things that will only ever happen once (so they don't end up being repetitive).
 
@JohnClifford The Sage Advice Compendium states: Grappling and shoving are special melee attacks that require the Attack action (PH, 195). This may help your answer
 
Oh thanks man.
Or woman, or neither, I don't know your life.
 
Unfortunately it also says this:
You can’t if the spell attack is created by casting a spell. When a creature triggers an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against it. The opportunity attack doesn’t suddenly give you the ability to cast a spell, such as shocking grasp.
 
That would contradict your answer to your other question I guess.
 
11:56 AM
@JohnClifford Is it also fine for some results to have a different effect than a rest interrupted? something like "during the night, you were stung in the arm by a mosquito. The bite itches fiercely as you wake up, giving you disadvantage on your next concentration/spot check."
Or would that be a really unbalanced effect?
 
You'd have to be careful not to be too mean to them with that kind of thing and use it sparingly, but I think it would add some nice flavour.
What system are you using here?
 
@JohnClifford Again, not actively in a group, but I'm mostly familiar with 5e
 
Ah okay, that would be a Perception check then.

Imposing disadvantage on one roll isn't really unbalanced; I mean you can give Inspiration for pretty much any reason you want and that gives advantage on a roll of the player's choice.
Maybe give it like -2 or something for a mosquito bite rather than straight up disadvantage though, unless it's a really bloody big mosquito. ;)
 
@JohnClifford Yeah, disadvantage was probably a bit much, but I wasn't sure if you could still do +/- on rolls from effects
 
I'd also perhaps make that a little more interesting; if the PC has a passive perception of X or higher, they feel the mosquito on their arm and splat it before it can feed.
You can apply modifiers to rolls at your discretion on the basis of environmental or situational factors.
 
12:01 PM
@JohnClifford oh right, and if they have a familiar, the mosquito gets killed by the familiar before it can do anything
 
That'd be neat too, good way to reward them for having certain class features or stats.
Mundane things like that really help to bring the world alive as well, since it starts to feel like a place where stuff happens rather than a sandbox in which the players cause happenings.
 
@JohnClifford Now I'm wondering if you can make an opportunity with a readied melee spell because the casting time doesn't exist anymore
 
Only with War Caster.
 
Because it only says you can't do it "if the spell attack is created by casting a spell"
 
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, instead of making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of only 1 action and must target only that creature.
 
12:09 PM
Yes agreed
 
@Nzall Assuming you mean DnD, no such rule exists (at least in 5e, I doubt in earlier editions either). DnD tends to lean towards "realism" in these things: it states what in-universe features must occur for the mechanical effects of a rest to happen, and the rest (pun totally intended) is up for GM to decide.
 
You would be able to use your reaction to cast the spell you readied, but you'd lose the readied spell anyway because you used your reaction for the opportunity attack.
 
But this answer here mentions the option of using a readied spell
8
Q: Can I use a spell to make an Opportunity Attack?

as.beaulieuThe Player's Handbook only describes that a melee attack is allowed when making an Opportunity Attack. Does this only mean melee weapon attacks, or does it allow some spells? Also assuming that if it does, then only spells with a casting time of 1 action, right?

Yes, but you could ready it with a different trigger, effectively gaining the benefits of two readied actions
 
I personally run rests quite differently from most GMs I know, because to me they represent a crucial balancing component of the game more than realism.
 
You still only get one reaction per turn: if you've readied a spell and you make an opportunity attack, you lose the readied spell and your reaction is spent.
 
12:11 PM
Oh agreed, I just think it's interesting that you can have two triggers (though one is fixed) which you cannot do with War Caster
 
If the trigger happens before the OA, your reaction isn't available for the OA. If it happens after, your reaction was already used by the OA so the readied action wouldn't happen.
What you could do is ready a spell with the trigger "when this enemy moves out of attack range".
 
Man there aren't many places where I can make computer/rpg jokes
 
No I'm saying you could do the following:
 
Feels good
 
Resting is a funny thing. You need to allow enough of them that casters have enough resources to not be completely useless in the majority of combats, while also not allowing them to be ubiquitous enough that they never feel any pressure on their resources whatsoever.
 
12:12 PM
Ready, say, inflict wounds with the trigger "When goblin Jim comes into range, I will attack him" But then, when Kobold Bob walks up to you and attacks and walks away you could instead use the spell on Bob
 
Right, but then you're making an opportunity attack with Inflict Wounds that's entirely separate to the one you readied, and the one you readied is lost.
 
hmmmm, yeah I think that's correct... :(
 
And you'd still need War Caster to do that.
 
@JohnClifford I usually run a "only long rest in towns" house rule. Technically it doesn't really even have to be a house rule, just a general fact that outside designated safe zones any long rest'd be interrupted.
 
Without War Caster you could ready Inflict Wounds with the trigger "When Kobold Bob moves out of range, I will cast this" and it would function like an opportunity attack without actually being one.
 
12:15 PM
I like the steady dwindling of resources over the course of a quest.
 
@kviiri That's a pretty good way to play it.
The only time I've let my group take a long rest outside of an inn was in the "dream sequence" Death House because I figured there wasn't any actual danger present within the scape of it (though they still got flattened by the end boss and had to run away from it)
 
@JohnClifford It does have one problem, namely that 5e has a bunch of spells whose only purpose seems to be to grant safe rests absolutely anywhere. They kill the tension for me :(
And no disrespected to my players, but they usually don't appreciate the constructive aspects of constraints as much as I'd hope
 
Aww, I wasn't able to post my comment in that virus question.
I've never heard of the verasto system but if it's anything like Roll For Shoes just say you want to "fix the virus 1" and roll a d6 to see if you roll higher than the virus's opposing roll. If you get a 6, you can get a new skill like "send the virus to a friend 2".
 
If you had to design a game called Verasto, what would it be about, and what would be its key features?
 
Yeah that question was good fun
 
12:25 PM
It would have a mechanic based on answering things truthfully.
 
@kviiri Organised play, where people must email me their credit card number before being allowed to play
 
@JohnClifford The specific quote I gave you from the SAC was regarding whether or not you could grapple/shove as an opportunity attack (as it, like Whirlwind Attack, uses the phrase "melee attack") so you could add the entire Q/A into your post as it helps show that another thing that allows you to make a melee attack does not allow you to grapple/shove
 
I can't wait for DnD 6e to come so we can have questions "How can I play e6 in 6e?"
 
Hahaha
 
@kviiri We'll also have to ask @vicky_molokh to make a new rpg
For added tag confusion
 
12:29 PM
@PierreCathé I've been thinking of hopping onto the 5e bandwagon myself
 
Do you have a link to the Q&A itself?
 
@PierreCathé System Agnostic, the Game.
 
The goal is to see how many rules questions you can ask where it isn't clear what system they apply to.
 
I was thinking it'd be about struggling with questions of faith and uncertainty.
 
As much as I like 5e... Applying a stricter RAW approach paired with their choice of Natural Language does not go well. There's a lot of corner-cases
You could have different Agnostic philosophies as classes
 
12:35 PM
It does open up some interpretation quandaries, but generally when I come up against one I just figure out what my most logical interpretation of it is and rule that way.
Occasionally players have argued their case as to why a decision I've made hasn't been correct, and I do take that into account.
Thankfully I only have one tabletop veteran in my group (well, 3 now) so I rarely have to deal with people being smarter than the rules.
 
I still think the worst rabbit-hole I've seen is that dealing and taking damage are two separate stages of the damage process
 
12:53 PM
@JohnClifford there's a pretty fine and muddy line between being clever with the mechanics vs too many liberties.
 
@NautArch Totally agree.
 
@JohnClifford "I came up with something really cool!" vs "Look, I just gamed the system!"
 
We haven't really had many rules debates of the "ain't no rule say a dog can't add a damage effect to a long-range detection spell" variety, but I run into them all the time on the internet.
 
I actually have a great example of that.
 
For comparison, my group keeps arguing about lots of other stuff like the best ways for the GM to exercise their position
 
12:59 PM
At one point the party was up against a suit of animated armor: the cleric cast Create or Destroy Water to fill it up (since technically it was an open container) and the silver dragonborn fighter used his breath weapon to freeze the water inside it, causing it to slow down.
 
and sadly, arguing about the best way to discuss that.
 
I mean if I'd wanted to shut that down I could have pointed out that a suit of armour isn't really an open container (there are gaps between plates etc. that water would seep through) but it was such a cool idea I let them do it.
 
GcL
@JohnClifford That's clever. I like that ingenuity.
 
Ingenuity is a requirement (or at least it helps a lot) for people using Illusion magic
 
Mechanically I had that reduce its speed to 10ft and imposed disadvantage on attack rolls, with a dex check each turn for it to free itself up a bit.
 
GcL
1:01 PM
@JohnClifford Which the dragonborn could have chilled at the same time to get around that, but why add more mental gymnastics to an already entertaining trick.
 
@Medix2 My issue with ruling well for illusions make them extremely powerful.
 
@Medix2 Sadly, I feel GM buy-in is by far the most important requirement.
 
@JohnClifford I probably would have shut it down :) Not an open container, can't 'fill' a creature with water, and the dragon's breath cold doesn't say it freezes things like Cone of Cold does (which only does upon death.)
 
This is the same cleric who did a 46-damage critical Guiding Bolt to Strahd when he was "testing" them, which very nearly screwed up an entire mechanic of the campaign. XD
@NautArch Yeah, there were many ways I could have shut it down, but I tend to allow things if they make for awesome narrative opportunities.
 
Yeah I'll do that as well, @JohnClifford the goal of a game is fun, not balance (you can find balance fun)
 
1:04 PM
@Medix2 Depends on how you rule fun :) But if it works at your table, then it works :)
 
Like strictly RAW Fire Bolt doesn't ignite creatures but I allowed it to set a vampire spawn they were fighting on fire so that it was taking a bit of extra damage. Which also birthed the line "If you want to expose your genitals to a vampire who's on fire, be my guest!" when someone suggested urinating on him to put him out, so definitely worth it.
 
We generally find fun in the challenge, so we generally stick pretty close to the ruleset.
 
Oh agreed it depends on how you rule. And if you want to adhere strictly that's perfectly alright. I just think the whole point of playing a TTRPG is to at some point enjoy it, otherwise why do it?
@NautArch Yup, that makes a lot of sense, that's what I enjoy as a player
 
Yeah, you have to adapt to the players.
My group likes chaos and fun.
 
@Medix2 I think we treat it much more as a combat wargame. There's also the risk that "I can do something cool to the bad guy" becomes "the bad guy did something cool to us and it's not cool"
 
1:10 PM
Oh yeah definitely, I have always disliked idea that "If the NPC's and PC's can do it, it's fair" because PC's die less frequently and therefore they are more important (their health is more valuable)
 
The good thing about controlling the world and everything in it is that things can only be unfair to your PCs if you let them. Though there is a significantly-large grey area somewhere in the middle where you end up ruling yourself into a corner where not dicking over your PCs doesn't make narrative sense.
 
And that gets into the fact that some tables specifically refuse having their GM fudge dice or the like
Where a "fair fight" means the brutal option of both sides using great strategy including eliminating knocked opponents
 
I don't tell my players what I roll, so they have no way of knowing whether I'm fudging it or not.
 
Oh interesting....
 
I generally stay as far away as I can from using specific numbers.
 
1:16 PM
So shield is more risky then
Because they know if they're hit, but not whether shield (or other things that can turn hits into misses) will actually work
 
Shield is kind of a special case; nobody has it yet, but we actually discussed it the other day. If anyone ever does get it, I'll probably let them know whether using it would prevent the hit.
 
GcL
@JohnClifford I let players know when it's a nat 20
 
They're fine whichever way I decide to play it though.
 
@GcL And only if its a nat 20?
 
Yeah, that's kind of obvious when I tell them the monster they're fighting crit. XD
 
GcL
1:18 PM
That's the only case where no amount of +AC will help.
 
@JohnClifford what about bardic inspiration for cutting words?
 
GcL
@Medix2 Yup. Narratively, "they got you good and you're sure of it"
 
We only have one person with levels in Bard; if she takes a third level I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, but I'd probably do the same thing as Shield and let her know whether using Cutting Words could change a hit to a miss without specifying the value.
 
There might be some advantage of deterrence in using the shield even if one'd get hit even then --- assuming some stuff about the foes' behavior model of course.
 
Though there's an argument to be made that it might not be worth it for the sake of a difference of 1 point so it would be useful for them to have that information.
 
1:21 PM
I generally always have open rolls. I see theirs, why shouldn't they see mine?
 
There is only a very marginal advantage of using shield when you know you will get hit still. Which would be if you might fall unconscious or something before another attack hits you.
@NautArch Agreed
It's just GM style/decisions at the end of the day
 
Yeah, I see why people would do it that way, but my players prefer the extra immersion that comes from not focusing on numbers.
 
@Medix2 Well yeah, that's the more mechanical aspect of it, but using the shield ASAP could also serve to make one a less appealing target than their comrades which could be useful in all manner of situations.
@JohnClifford I prefer the extra immersion that comes from knowing the numbers ;)
 
Does Shield remain active if the caster is knocked out?
 
@kviiri Oh wow that's genuinely a really good point
 
1:23 PM
@kviiri And I'm glad that works for you. :)
 
@JohnClifford It doesn't require concentration so I don't see why not
 
8
Q: Does the Blink spell continue working if the caster is knocked unconscious?

DamnedmindThe first part of the description for Blink reads: Roll a d20 at the end of each of your turns for the duration of the spell. On a roll of 11 or higher, you vanish from your current plane of existence and appear in the Ethereal Plane (the spell fails and the casting is wasted if you were alre...

 
@Medix2 (Assuming you mean the Shield thing) In a sense --- of course it depends a bit on how the opponents act. Most GMs I've played with don't really emphasize monster behavioral quirks when running them, but aren't exactly proficient minmaxers either so they could easily rush into the conclusion that a target under Shield isn't a good target before actually doing the maths.
 
Ah, cool.
 
A really strategic adversarial GM would of course keep the Shield option in mind even in advance.
 
1:26 PM
@kviiri True, true. I tend not to have my monsters do math even if I do it myself
 
Hmm, that's fun, means I get to think up narration for an attack hitting through the shield that wouldn't contradict later ones not being able to penetrate it.
 
Though... I realize now I could say monsters understand how much protection shield actually gives
 
I've always imagined it to be a pretty visible effect too, so an intelligent creature would be able to make an educated guess that the thing they're trying to hit is going to be harder to hit now.
 
Similar with opportunity attacks --- most people and GMs I've played with go out of their way to avoid them even in situations where it's a very minor nuisance
 
I also do not use the time-travelling approach
 
1:27 PM
But it says it's invisible, ignore me.
You've still got the verbal and somatic components to go on though.
 
Huh, @JohnClifford I've never realized that creatures that can see invisible things can see the shield spell on somebody
 
Oh, that's a point.
Would they though? Truesight allows you to see invisible creatures and objects, but what Shield creates is an invisible barrier of magical force, which is neither.
Though that would be a cool thing so I'd totally do that.
 
I think it'd be an object
Well... at least one thing that is neither creature nor object explicitly says so
 
"Invisible" is poorly defined, but I'd argue a creature that can see "everything that's invisible" wouldn't actually see much.
 
The Shepherd Druid's Spirit Totem states: "It counts as neither a creature nor an object"
 
GcL
1:33 PM
@NautArch The DM knows the outcome of actions before they're done. The players do not. Showing them the rolls gives them glimpses into the future.
 
@GcL Why does the GM know the outcomes?
 
GcL
@Medix2 I thought that was implicit in the way D&D was run. Players tell the DM what actions the character takes, the DM tells them the results.
 
Air is invisible, most of the electromagnetic radiation spectrum is invisible... I'd imagine a creature that would actually see everything would either have a really large brain for filtering all the useless information out of the useful stuff, or they'd be effectively blinded by seeing too much :-)
 
That doesn't mean the GM knows the results before the players though, the GM explains the results as they figure them out
 
@Medix2 THe difference between knowing if something succeeds vs how something plays out.
 
1:36 PM
@NautArch Who knows which thing, I'm confused. To me the GM knows neither of those things
 
casts See Invisibility OH MY GOD SO MANY MOLECULES
 
Finally managed to get my last player to create a character :)
 
GcL
@Medix2 So the DM doesn't tell the players the results of actions? The players already know? Seems to break the loop set out in the rules.
 
Here's my tables: The players explain how they want something to work out, the GM determines how it actually works out (telling the players such). When a monster rolls a die the GM does not know whether it will hit or not the GM asks whether it hits and is then told the result by the players. If the GM instead asks for the player's AC then the GM reveals the preliminary result of the roll (hit/miss) as they themself are learning it
 
Well this is one of those things I've been whinging about for ages to my group. Our GMs run checks so that the player rolls, adds a modifier, declares a number. Then the GM, through a process that's completely opaque, decides whether that number is a success, fail or something in between, and what exactly the outcome means, and whether the player needs to do something more to accomplish something more.
 
GcL
1:39 PM
@Medix2 Interesting. I know all my players character sheets pretty well.
 
@Medix2 Knowing the die roll only tells you one thing. Once you've figured out modifiers, you know a bit more about success/failure. But you still don't know what hte success/failure necessarily means. FOr an attack, you know a bit more, but still need to see the damage roll. For an ability check, the power is hte in outcome description.
 
So it feels like the die roll doesn't even matter. It's like having that many dollars to buy toast with when the baker changes the prices at whim.
 
I always have my player character sheets open in DnDBeyond tabs on my third monitor so I don't need to ask their AC
 
I normally ask in case there's some modifier I've forgotten about
 
And the toast also changes between delicious to a non-nutritious bread so white you can't look straight at it on a sunny day.
 
GcL
1:40 PM
@NautArch Sure, but if you're rolling the damage etc out in the open, the players will have a very good idea of what the immediate future holds. The only unknown is the first time an attack hits when which damage dice get rolled is a question.
 
@GcL They're going to know that anyway after the first damage roll that's hidden, too.
 
10
Q: Can either the Nondetection or Mind Blank spells prevent information about oneself being divined from others through the Legend Lore spell?

kentCan either the Nondetection or Mind Blank spells prevent information about oneself being divined from others through the Legend Lore spell? In this instance, the party was trying to legend lore the true name of a legendary creature that had protected itself with nondetection and mind blank. Ho...

 
GcL
Of course, you could make a complex model that's non-obvious, but that is just delaying the players sorting it out.
 
@Medix2 They maintain their own sheets on their accounts, I only have the URL for that character loaded so it's always current with what modifiers they have.
 
GcL
@NautArch It's not. If you take 5 damage, what die was rolled with what modifier? Could have been a d4 to a d100.
Heck, could have been 5d6
 
1:42 PM
In my head the players can determine the modifiers and dice of an enemy if they wanted to (they have the books, they can remember how much damage got done), so I roll dice in the open. Whether their characters understand that is never a question to me. You can approximate the relative strength of your opponents
 
I'm also in the process of making MapTool macros for all the creatures in my game for their attacks etc. so that all I have to do is click a button, put in the target AC, and it tells me the roll, whether it hit, whether it crit and how much/what type of damage was done if it hit.
The output is sent to GM only though.
Writing MT macros is actually super fun.
 
GcL
@Medix2 That I almost always give the character with the experience that info. E.g. the fighters can readily id the opponent with martial prowess and the magic types get a feeling of, "that guy magics" etc
 
So the things I've been pestering my GMs for are open target numbers, and open stakes, as much as appropriate. Knowing these things before committing to the course of action would be nice too
 
I'm almost enjoying it more than I enjoy actually DMing the sessions. XD
@kviiri If my players asked me to be open about that stuff I'd be more than happy to do so, but they like it the way I do it now so I continue to do it that way. ^_^
 
@GcL True, and maybe this comes down to table preference. BUt we generally like rolling dice and seeing the dice roll. THe DM pulls out D12s to roll damage and that adds to the table experience for us as we get really worried.
 
1:44 PM
@GcL Yeah agreed, that works very well. You can recognize the strength of people who do thinks similar to yourself
 
And I think it works with the narrative, too. (personally)
 
GcL
@kviiri I like it when they ask what the character's impression of it is.
 
@NautArch Yeah that's another benefit, there's the suspense of not seeing the dice and also the suspense when seeing the dice
 
I think we've discovered there are pros/cons for both sides :)
 
@JohnClifford Yeah it's ultimately up to their taste, but remember that people can always seem happy with stuff because they don't know there's another way to do things, or assume there's a really good reason for things to be done exactly like they're being done now
 
1:45 PM
The good thing about the players only having narrative clues for the behind-the-scenes mechanics of things is that all I have to do is laugh maniacally for a bit and they know it's about to get real.
 
It's like people do things for different reasons, amazing (sarcasm, kinda)
 
GcL
@Medix2 Also encourages player cooperation. When the rogue asks the fighter which of the thugs is going to be a problem. I'm really happy when that happens.
 
@kviiri Agreed. I actually check in with my players regularly asking them for feedback on my style and their enjoyment of the game, and ask them if they'd like to try doing things X way instead.
 
@kviiri Excellent point, absolutely excellent
 
GcL
@JohnClifford I generally look worried when they get themselves into a tough combat they're not prepared for. Like, I don't want the characters to die. I'm not particularly rooting for the foes.
 
1:46 PM
yep, looking for a new job starting today
 
The other good thing about keeping rolls/stats secret is that I can easily allow a battle to swing in the PCs' favour when needed.
 
Eg. I had a group of friends who were perfectly happy to level grind themselves to level 15 to play a high-level homebrew campaign their GM had prepared until I pointed out I'd just start directly at or at least close to the level... :P
 
@goodguy5 Good luck! Hope things are alright
 
@GcL "well...okay. You sure?" "Yes" Fine, roll initiative"
 
GcL
@goodguy5 Have you considered astronaut-cowboy? That seems like it would be fun.
 
1:47 PM
But yeah, "You sure?" is like my catchphrase nowadays. XD
 
@goodguy5 Sorry to hear, but opportunities abound!
 
I wish you the best of luck with that, @goodguy5.
 
GcL
@NautArch Yeah. Exactly that... especially when they have all the dialog and knowledge to not get into a fight.
or not get into a superfluous one.
 
@GcL kindasorta like this.
 
there have been a lot of organizational changes, for the worse imo. And I don't like my current managerial structure.

The last straw was someone raising a bug report - some field has missing values.
I remembered seeing the exact same ticket, so I dig and find it. Closed as resolved.

I comment in the new ticket "This seems related to this ticket".

And my grandboss tells my boss to "push back on (goodguy) to propose next steps" and my boss forwards me the email and just says "don't link new tickets to closed tickets. see grandboss' email"
 

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