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12:00 AM
@BESW I'm fairly sure I have, though I don't have it installed right now and and can't recall my impressions, so it probably wouldn't hurt to try it again.
I've tried... many a similar program.
 
@Pixie Yes, but YMMV especially if you're on a Mac.
 
@Shalvenay hiya
 
Ah, I see. I'm on Windows, so I'll keep that in mind.
 
@nitsua60 where were you last night btw?
 
12:27 AM
@Shalvenay Some high school, college, and work buddies (and I) do a yearly "5K Pentathlon." It was yesterday. Have I told you about it before?
 
Cool
 
(Oh, I'm seeing some pings in the inbox from @MikeQ, @KorvinStarmast. I feel bad--that's the reason 7/14 wasn't even listed as an entry on the calendar thread: I've had this on the calendar for a year.)
 
What is a 5k pentathlon though?
The difference between that and just a 5k I mean
@nitsua60 oh that explains it
I don't Check that calendar enough
I should fix that
I probably won't but I should
 
@trogdor Low score wins. 1. 5K run (time in minutes is score); 2. 5000-lb bench press (choose your weight, reps to hit 5000 lb is score); 3. eat 5000 calories of 1 food in an hour (score is based off of how far short of 5000 you fall); 4. Round of golf (5000 yards! score is golf score); 5. obstacle course (score is (seconds/3)).
 
I looked it up but am having trouble understanding why you would combine fencing and pistol shooting with those other events
@nitsua60 ok so it basically means 5 events
 
12:36 AM
@trogdor So that's the modern pentathlon, which is modern analogue of the ancient pentathlon (javelin, sprint, distance run, long jump, and discus, IIRC?) which claims to be a set of skills that would be representative of a hoplite infantry soldier.
 
And apparently between pentathlon's those events vary,.... Very widely
 
@trogdor Yes, and in our case 5 events that all somehow implicate the notion of "5K."
 
@nitsua60 lol,.... Ok
 
back in a bit
 
@nitsua60 for me 5k means a run/walk
But wtv
We live in a world of weird separate distinctions for the same phrases (and yet we somehow sometimes need 5 words meaning extremely similar things)
 
12:49 AM
@nitsua60 oh, right
 
Woo! I solved my issue with Quoll Writer by following the instructions in the top-voted answer here (creating the variable and flagging it false). I was having similar issues with Hexographer, come to think of it, but not as bad -- bits of the program multiplying all over itself.
 
1:04 AM
Yey!
 
Nice
 
1:31 AM
I finished the fic I initially wanted to organize in it last October, but hey, I'm sure I'll figure out something to do with it. :P Trying to set up an NPC widget now.
 
Ben
Morning all
Anyone present have any semi-to-extensive knowledge of Pathfinder?
 
@Ben I don't know if I'd say extensive, but I know certain parts of the system pretty well. What do you need help with?
 
Ben
Because I have a Druid PC that I'd like to (if I can) integrate a revenge mechanic - like a favoured enemy or something like that
 
Ah, that I'm not sure about.
 
Ben
In our last game we came up against an enemy that managed a TPK. The DM was nice enough to bring us back (partially because it was session 3 - partially because the mechanic used to defeat us was statistically improbable).
So now I'm thinking of going in a direction that can assist in some kind of revenge against said NPC
We're using Mythic builds, and if possible, I'd like to go for something other than multi-classing, if possible.
 
2:00 AM
@Ben There are some story feats in UC that relate to vengeance, like Vengeance (last one on the page here), but it's very underwhelming, because it never increases. Hopefully someone else knows of something better than this.
 
Ben
@Pixie Nemesis works well too
 
Oh yes, I missed that one. That does seem appropriate.
Well, assuming this enemy views your character the same way your character views them. :P
Ah, but "Your nemesis gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against you." Something to watch out for.
 
Does Nemesis really require a mutual vendetta
?
I always figured that could still work one way
 
It requires that the character taking the feat have an enemy that wants to do them harm.
 
Oooh
Within system
I see
 
Ben
2:09 AM
I'd daresay that might be the case.
Especially after we murdered her sister.
Lol
 
Ah, yes. That would engender some bad feelings.
 
@Ben oh you neglected that part XD
 
Ben
Are you familiar with "blur"?
 
I am.
 
Ben
@Pixie @Trogdor yup lol
 
2:10 AM
Here I was thinking a cheesy M Bison thing
"for me it was Tuesday and all that"
 
Ben
Yeah that was the reason why she got the better of us. We had a Cleric, a druid, and a Blood Rager. We were all swinging away, and simply because she had Blur active, she negated 8/10 hits
 
I don't know Pathfinder at all
 
Blur is pretty handy.
 
I Know it less than 5e now Even
 
Ben
@trogdor Oh, well yeah. Murdering the sister was that kind of activity. You know, wake up, murder a witch, grab some breakfast... that kind of thing
 
2:12 AM
At least, if you're the one using it. :P
 
@Ben I meant it from the other side towards you guys
 
Ben
Then she decided to step it up by infecting an entire town with a zombie curse.
@trogdor Oh right lol
 
But yeah, normally the 20% miss chance wouldn't cause... 8/10 hits to miss. Some bad luck.
 
Ben
@Pixie Exactly haha
 
You all already got murdered by her right? So I figured she was just a badass who didn't figure you were PC bigdeal and co
 
Ben
2:14 AM
So the next part was "you wake up in a pit, chained up, 60 years later".
My immediate reaction was "That #*&<ing b*tch turned us into zombies didn't she??"
So now, we're effectively Golems. We've been artificially reanimated by another NPC, and my response was "Cheers. Tell me who you want dead, so that I can earn my wish to murder that witch"
 
@Ben I'm not very familiar with Pathfinder, but in 3.5, almost any mechanical choice that specialized you towards fighting a specific enemy was a terrible idea, because the choices that would make you better at fighting enemies in general would also do much more to help you fight that specific enemy than the specific choices.
 
Yeah, that was my logic re: those story feats. If it were, like, a trait, it'd be fine, but that isn't enough bang for the feat buck.
 
Like, you're a Druid, so you could trade in your Wild Shape for Favoured Enemy. But Wild Shape will do far more to help you fight your favoured enemy than Favoured Enemy will, so it's a trade that makes you worse at fighting that specific enemy as well as worse at fighting enemies in general.
 
Well, +2 on multiple things is too much for a trait, but +2 on one thing.
 
Ben
True.
 
2:23 AM
If the Favoured Enemy-type stuff made you better at fighting your favoured enemies than the general stuff, there'd be a tradeoff to consider, but as it is it's just an objectively terrible choice.
 
Ben
I suppose I'm looking for more of a flavour thing, but something I can still use when I do finally get face to face with her again
 
That said, as I mentioned earlier I don't know PF very well, so it's possible there's an option which actually has that tradeoff.
 
Ben
Yeah
 
But I doubt it, because things like that tend to be small nunerical bonuses, where the things you could otherwise be getting are things like Natural Spell.
 
> Flavoured Enemy. You get +2 when tracking particularly tasty targets.
 
2:26 AM
That reminds me, I need to read Delicious in Dungeon sometime.
 
Ben
@BESW I think that might need to be refined - like, it all depends on that particular PC's tastes. Sweet v Savoury, for example
Just leaving that up to the DM feels a bit rail-road-y
:P
 
Since it's a Fate stunt, it's not left up to the GM.
 
@Miniman yeaaaahhhhh
I have to agree with you there
Also druids giving up class features for someone else's class features,.... Why?
XD
Druids already have all the best ones of those
 
Ben
I'm also a Skin-walker, which gives me a minor bonus to one of three features each time I change
 
Since this is a caster, you might be better off just focusing on ways to mess with casters. Let's see, the sister was a witch, but is this NPC?
 
2:34 AM
Heck, I gave up a druid feature to cash summons spontaneously for the cleric one for heals spontaneously,... But that was only at low levels
 
Ben
@Pixie Necromancer, specifically.
I believe they're an optimised Wizard class
 
At higher levels you could summon unicorns to do heals for you in 3.5
XD
 
Oh, good. Then you don't even need to worry about hexes, just the spells.
 
Ben
@Pixie Well, now you say that, she did have hexes
 
Oh, okay. Mm, I can't actually tell you how to deal with a hex off the top of my head as I've only ever had to worry about using them. :P It varies depending on the hex, too.
But for the spellcasting part, tanglefoot bags have good effects in general and will give entanglement even if they don't get stuck to the ground, requiring concentration checks on casting. Thunderstones can cause deafness which gives a chance to fail spells with verbal components. Any way you can prevent them from speaking is good.
 
2:37 AM
How are hexes different from spells?
 
Ben
@Pixie I do often stick with Entangle as one my spells... it is great. Problem is that it has a huge AOE
 
@trogdor The hex is a witch-specific feature, and they're not spells but mostly supernatural effects or extraordinary abilities. Normal spellcasting can be thwarted in certain ways because spells often require somatic or verbal components -- you have to move or speak to cast them -- and because there are various effects that make you do a concentration check to cast them, too.
But that doesn't apply to hexes.
 
Ben
@Pixie I think she hexed her sickle by licking it. Lol
Dunno if that was just flavour though
Pun-intentional
 
Yeah, I'm not sure what that would be, heh.
 
You could show your dedication to defeating her by investing in counterspelling.
 
2:41 AM
Some hexes will require a move action, like Cackle, or line of sight... it just depends what it is.
 
It's not necessarily a great idea, but it's generally applicable and spells are the most dangerous thing around anyway.
I'm not sure what the options are like in PF though, especially for Druids.
 
Unfortunately, I've never played a druid, and I've never done any counterspelling. I mainly know the features I've used, heh.
 
Ben
@Pixie Yeah, I think that did require an action to Hex the blade - but it obviously didn't require much in the way of normal spellcasting, in regards to the V/S/M components
 
I loved doing tanglefoot bombs with my bramble brewer alchemist, but yeah, that AOE can be an issue.
 
Ben
@Miniman I think I might just optimise my Druid class to do what Druids do best
 
2:46 AM
That is likely your best bet.
Then throw it all at your enemy. :v
 
@Ben What do "druids do best"?
 
Ben
"Oh, you decided to go with the floaty skull swarm again? Well... I can do that too"
[summons squirrel swarm]
HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW
 
Swarms are nice, heh.
Used them with both my witch and my alchemist from time to time. Vomit Swarm is always especially fun, because... well.
Not a druid thing, though.
 
Ben
@Pixie [Druid starts vomiting squirrels]
 
@Ben I almost choked on my popsicle. That is such an amusing image.
 
Ben
2:50 AM
Hahahaha
 
summons cute puppy swarm all over @Pixie and @Ben
 
@Shalvenay My one weakness.
 
He attac.
 
Ben
I am looking forward to getting Wild Shape.
 
2:54 AM
@Pixie ah so they are very similar to supernatural abilities in 3.5
 
@trogdor Yeah, sorry, I accidentally wrote supernatural effects, but I meant abilities. Many of them are.
 
Everything I learn about Pathfinder makes me think it really is mostly just 3.5 except not 3.5
 
Ben
I also need to recap on the abilities of Druids. Currently only level 2, but it's my first time playing PF, so I've been mainly focussing on the mechanics of the game. Got a handle on that now, so I think I'll need to re-focus on how Druids specifically work within the game
@trogdor I think that's the gist haha
 
@trogdor I mean... it is, heh. There's enough changed that I feel a little lost when I try to do 3.5, but that's more because I don't know what's in which books and all that, I think.
 
Yeah I mean
I figure I would be lost looking through Pathfinder too
Not saying they are literally the same, just very similar
 
3:00 AM
Yeah. Paizo tweaked a few things and added a bunch of their own material, but the core parts of the system are still the same.
 
Apparently they found success with that
Wtv works
 
I like it, but then it's what I've been playing with for probably 6-7 years now, heh. I'm not sure when I started... sometime in college...
 
I felt that way about 3.5 for a while
But now I can't stand the idea of playing 3.5 again
 
Heh. I'd play Pathfinder again if someone in my group was like "hey I'm GMing a Pathfinder game again," but I think the ones that did got kind of burned out.
 
I think I would have quit 3.5 sooner if I wasn't already In a group I liked, and I actually knew some other systems existed
3.5 really annoyed me by the end there
But I didn't voice it that much because,... Agian group I liked/like
 
3:05 AM
I also did some Pathfinder Society at a con last year, but it wasn't a great experience for me. It was a fresh character, and it's kinda hard for me to really get into a character on the first session, so I felt kind of deer in headlights when the GM fished for RP stuff. At least two of the party members were my friends, or else I'd have felt completely uncomfortable.
 
Ben
Also, to clarify - Druids don't have "spell slots", they have "spells per day"... right? Like, If I wanted to use Cure Light Wounds more than once per day, I'd need to take that spell twice
 
@Pixie I don't think I would have even tried something that that honestly
 
That's spell slots, but yes.
You have X slots, you prepare a spell in each of those slots.
 
Ben
Right. Yeah.
 
@trogdor Probably if I remade one of my seasoned characters to PFS specifications it wouldn't have been so bad, heh. Or even if I'd had more time to prep my character. But three of us were kind of like, "hey, we don't have anything to do tomorrow morning, so let's do PFS."
 
3:08 AM
Fair enough
 
5e should really have called them something else, but they chose to use terms everyone knows. Which is the source of a bunch of confusion, because they use them very differently.
 
@Miniman I'm running into a lot of this in nitsua's game
It's very confusing
I would have quit a long time ago if it was with a different group I think
 
Ben
Question: How do "Woodland Step" and "Entangle" overlap?
 
@Ben Do you mean the druid ability Woodland Stride or this Woodland Step?
 
Ben
Woodland Stride, yeah
 
3:17 AM
It specifically says that "Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion, however, still affect [the druid]." so I'd say not at all.
 
Ben
Ok. That's cool
Would probably be a bit OP for the druid to just drop an Entangle at his feet then still be able to hop around like Tom Bombadil haha
 
Heh, yes, I'd say they were thinking of that.
I think one of the biggest annoyances for playing online and generally without a map (only once in a while did we have R20 stuff) was always having to ask, "Do I have enough room to drop this and not hit the party?"
And that answer often being no, because of winding up in houses with small rooms or places with narrow tunnels. :P
 
Ben
@Pixie Yeah... haha. When we played on the weekend, we all had to look at the rule again and were surprised by just how big the AOE actually was
 
Yeah, I haven't used Entangle itself before, but the splash radius on my alchemist bombs just kept getting bigger. It was useful, and yet... :P
 
Ben
80ft diameter
With a 400ft range
it is absolutely massive
 
3:23 AM
@Pixie R20 is pretty cool but I have found there are a lot of little problems with it that build up
 
The bramble bombs, I mean. Since damage bombs get 1d6 extra damage at points, the bramble bombs got 5 extra feet of diameter at those points instead.
 
Mostly the kind of problems that aren't a big deal by themselves but with other problems cause a lot of extra work
 
@trogdor Yeah, I understand. Now that Discord exists, we've stuck with it.
 
R20 can still do stuff Discord can't but,... Sometimes I wish we weren't using it for some 4e
The problem being that 4e cares a loooot more about map and terrain than 3.5 ever did
And 3.5 cared at least a little
It does seem like the problems vary with system though
@nitsua60 's 5e game hardly seems to have any of the issues my 4e one does
 
Ah, I see.
Even before Discord, what we generally did was mostly use Skype but occasionally pop into R20 only to run battles for which we had a map.
 
3:43 AM
Seems fair
It is nice to have the maps
Again
It's just a lot of work to make R20 do some of the things I feel it Should automatically have down
 
I see. I imagine if we'd needed anything more complex, we might have run into the same issues.
I've looked into it quite a bit, but I've never found a program for online tabletop play that seemed to have great map features.
 
I unfortunately know of nothing better either
And at this point I probably have learned too much how to cajole R20 into working to move to just any map system
 
Yeah, if you have it doing what you want it to do now...
 
Yeah we pretty much do now
It just took an aful lot of,.... Unintuitive learning about R20
Like, to start out with, it was a ridiculous hassle to make 2 tokens that had the same stats,... But we're counted as separate units
They kept losing health at the same time
 
Wow. That does sound like something that should be... not difficult?
 
3:55 AM
Yeah that's my point
It made me learn some arcane ritual type stuff just for that
Not incredibly fullfiling that
 
The R20 gods are fickle.
 
And I have a whole list of that kind of thing
But I figure everyone gets the idea
 
4:10 AM
hey there @bruglesco, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
@Shalvenay Thanks for the welcome
 
Ben
"Lair" is a bit strong....
 
How is everyone tonight? It seems quiet across SE (tends to be on Sunday night)
 
Ben
Yeah it usually goes a bit quiet around this time. (2-5pm for me)
 
Yeah I suppose I shouldn't just equate it to my time. SE is a fairly international site
 
4:20 AM
Yeah mid Monday here for example
 
Ben
I think it's the equivalent of everyone is either getting coffee/sleeping/picking the kids up from school haha
 
Eh, there are some in-betweens of those though
 
Ben
@trogdor I.e. us haha
 
Lol
 
Ben
I'm currently bludging at work, for example
 
4:28 AM
But also everyone near us
@Ben Same
(I assume that means goofing off temporarily)
(to say something in RPG chat)
 
Ben
Depending on how far you would stretch "temporarily" over a period of time
 
Lol
 
Ben
And, what would comply as not "goofing off". Haha
 
Infinity minus one counts technically
@Ben doing work right this second
Everything else is,... Yeah
 
Ben
I'm working on my Diablo campaign while I wait for some dude to call me back... does that count?
 
4:31 AM
Not that anyone can work literally every second
@Ben could you be doing something work related while waiting ? :P
(says the guy currently debating what this means while at work)
 
Ben
Hahaha
 
Pff. I have the kind of job where there is absolutely never not something to do. This doesn't necessarily mean that I don't take a breather once in a while, but not if I'm not ahead of schedule and also alone. :P
 
Yeah I didn't mean that everyone should literally work every second
 
Yeah, I gotcha.
 
In fact I think that is an actually unreasonable expectation
It's apparently also unreasonable to expect my phone to stop auto correcting the word I mean into an entirely different word
I feel like it shouldn't do that when I spelled a word out already period
 
Ben
4:47 AM
I was going to say... like... should I cover my eyes?
 
X(
 
Ben
Haha
 
Isn't that what autocorrect is supposed to do? Mangle your words into something entirely unintended?
 
Apparently
Sometimes it corrects spelling mistakes,... Which is good
 
Ben
Accurately*
 
4:48 AM
Other times it turns work into world
 
When I'm on my phone, the only way I can write anything is to use the swipe feature, because I'm terrible at tapping words out letter by letter. But swipe sometimes... chooses some strange words.
 
Which make entirely different sentences
@Pixie yes this too
 
You'd think, if there were two words that might be chosen from the same gesture, it would err on the side of commonly used words.
This does not seem to be the case. :v
2
 
For me it isn't a swipe though
It's a choice of 3 words it thinks I mean
Sometimes I even use that on purpose
 
Ben
And then it laughs at you when you start to get frustrated by the duking around when the birch keeps swapping out all your broody words
 
4:50 AM
But other times it sometimes picks one of those it is sure I meant instead of the word I bothered to actually spell out,.......
@Ben lol
@Pixie supposedly mine is supposed to do that too
 
Ahh. I trace a line over the letters and it picks the word it thinks I mean. One issue of late is that every time I try to swipe "and" it instead thinks I want to write "abs."
 
But I get variable success with that at best
And go figure, even when it gets that down it doesn't mean that was the word I wanted this time
@Pixie we all know you write abs more often than the extremely common word and
Who are you fooling? :P
 
Of course. Silly me. When am I not talking about abs?
 
It did it again, is there egg on my face? It certainly feels like it
 
(Often when this kind of thing happens, I'm like, "When did I even write that? Why is this word even in here?")
 
4:55 AM
It corrected abs ... Ironically,... Into and
It did it again!!??!?
 
Ben
It's strange because my girlfriend has been educating me about endometriosis - and this conversation usually does lead to conversations about abs a lot
 
Jeez
 
That is... pff. We have the opposite issue.
 
Apparently
Now everyone knows I never talk about abs :'(
XD
 
Ben
I have a 6 pack. It's part of the keg
 
5:01 AM
Lol
Shhh don't embarrass me with your superior physique made of,... Beer references
 
Ben
It's kinda funny... I'm a typical Aussie guy... I'll have a beer with dinner, maybe a few with lunch on the weekend, and according to the internet, I come across as a fairly alcoholic character.
For example the Redbubble ads suggest t-shirts like "I'm holding a beer, so yeah. I'm busy" or "Warning - May contain alcohol"
 
@Ben well America has a very strange idea of it
A lot of people drink but if you have any at all before noon you are stereotypically alchoholic
 
Ben
America still uses the imperial system, so they have a very strange idea of a lot of things :P
 
Even though I barely know any people who don't drink at all
I don't , and a couple other people I personally know don't, but not many
@Ben I agree with you there honestly
 
Ben
Actually yeah. I suppose from an outside view, seeing someone as "odd" or "uncharacteristic" for not drinking is a thing in Australia. It's not a bad thing, it's just unusual.
 
5:11 AM
Yes we do
 
I wish we had learned the metric system in school and chucked out inches and feet a long time ago
 
Ben
But in saying that, the difference between "drinking" and "not drinking" is just the basic act of consuming alcohol - not necessarily drinking excessively
 
But our country has this stupid idea that we have to be completely different from everyone else to be special
 
Ben
That is how a lot of the world sees it haha.
 
Even if some other countries have a better thing going somewhere that we could probably manage to also do
Like more streamlined measurements
@Ben what I mean is, time of day seems to factor in more for us than amount
 
Ben
5:14 AM
@trogdor Yeah. That too.
 
I am inclined to partially blame Hollywood for perpetating that with stereotyped alcoholic characters who start drinking in the morning
Like yeah,... That's bad if you have to drive to work
But if it's a weekend and you literally only have one.... That shouldn't be considered the exact same thing
And to be clear,... I think this trope might make it harder for some Americans to realize it when they do have a problem
Because they can point to a show or movie and say " but I'm not that drunk idiot so I'm fine"
 
Ben
@trogdor I'd disagree. In all cases like this, the line is always unclear
Hence why it becomes a problem to begin with
 
@Ben but that doesn't mean they need to pretend it is clear
That's the issue I mean
I've seen a lot of shows and movies with the alchoholic character who gets established as such by drinking at an improper time of day
And it's TV so they don't sit through the character having way too many
It's a dangerous shorthand in my oppinion
 
Ben
Oh ok.
So that's probably why people in Australia are often considered to be an "alcoholic" society, based on that trope?
 
I mean, to be fair it's still each individuals job to know what their limit is
But I don't think coming to that conclusion is made easier by certain media
@Ben I would posit that personally yeah
 
Ben
5:22 AM
Fair enough
 
I mean, I do think it's a strangely delicate balance that a lot of people subject themselves to, to drink at all and needing to police yourself with it when you do
 
Ben
I think there's a lot more involved in that.
 
I don't drink because I don't like most of the reasons other people do
 
Ben
Some people drink to get drunk, because it's fun, social interaction becomes easier, all that.
 
@Ben I speak as someone who has never has so there is that
 
Ben
5:29 AM
Some people drink to just relax at the end of the day - like a beer with dinner, or while watching the evening news. It's just part of that "unwinding" ritual at the end of the day.
 
@Ben yeah but see then that's at least a little scary isn't it? Where do you stop once you do that?
 
Ben
But those that develop a problem with drinking usually develop it from having an issue with being sober.
 
But that's still a problem regardless
I don't like the idea of being even a little buzzed personally
I realize it doesn't mean total loss of control at that point, but I prefer to have complete utter control ofy own actions as often as possible
Even a little bit of a loss of that is not my idea of fun at all
 
Ben
@trogdor That's fine :) in my experience of this, being drunk just lowers your inhibitions. If you have desires to do things that you don't like, then that doesn't mean you're going to lose control of that.
 
Hence a big reason I don't partake
@Ben I understand that too,
 
Ben
5:33 AM
I think the main difference is getting drunk to "have a good time at a party with friends" vs getting drunk "because then I don't need to be sober"
 
But it's still,... For one thing I say stupid stuff every once in a while without influence of something
Sometimes it hurts someone or embarrasses me
I'm not for increasing that likely hood even a little bit
Not to mention anything worse that could happen with higher levels of intoxication
@Ben there is a good distinction between those, but I don't much like either of them
For myself I mean
I'm not here to say no one else can do it
 
Ben
I'd just like to take a moment to clarify: I am in no way trying to suggest that drinking is something everyone should do. You do what you are comfortable with
 
I didn't think you were
I just mean that I understand that distinction but that it doesn't make a huge difference vis a vis my own choice not to
 
Ben
That's good, but everyone reads things differently :)
 
Other than that one is clearly a worse issue
True
I've known some people that only drank for parties, but still got into auto accidents too
It scares me a great deal that a momentary lapse in judgement could lead to worse mistakes
 
Ben
5:41 AM
@trogdor That is always an issue - hence why there are always lots of ads about drink-driving
 
People who can deal with that and never go over thier own limit are still welcome to do that
And personally I hate smoking a lot more than drinking
You can't really "smoke responsibly" as long as you are anywhere near other people
And the smell is bad enough without the health risks
X(
And they of course pack the things full of incredibly addictive substances and some,... Frankly really insanely unhealthy stuff
@Ben so yeah, the problem isn't everyone who does it, but there are clearly still plenty of people who die in some relation to consuming it irresponsibly every year
My issue is, what are we not doing to fix that that we could be doing without a second prohibition
(which didn't and wouldn't work to be clear XD)
 
Ben
@trogdor Everything we can
 
Well yes, but clearly we aren't doing the right thing to curtail it now
 
Ben
The problem isn't the alcohol. It's the people making the bad choices. Yes, the alcohol doesn't necessarily help the decision making, but like you said, prohibition ain't gonna do a whole lot
 
I don't know what the answer is but we haven't implemented it yet
 
Ben
5:53 AM
People are still going to do the same things even when sober.
@trogdor Exactly.
 
@Ben I don't entirely agree with that but
Wtv
And we already have laws against doing certain things while drunk
 
Ben
@trogdor You still get people causing accidents on the road, because they can't make judgements or they make stupid decisions. That's how accidents happen.
 
But we don't enforce them in a sustainable way to drastically reduce, for example, drunk driving
@Ben yes, true, but I still believe there is a way to reduce the instances when someone is too drunk to possibly make the right choice
That's the distinction I am making
 
Ben
@trogdor The problem is that if a guy is drinking at his house, then decides he needs to go for a drive (for whatever reason) how are you going to manage that?
 
I don't know
 
Ben
5:59 AM
It's up to other people to help the situation.
 
I didn't say I did
 
Ben
In Australia, we have lots of these ads, which do help reduce drink driving. One that I remember is "friends don't let friends drink drive"
 
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