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5:01 PM
@kviiri He'd be about as unhappy as the rest of us, instead of slightly more unhappy
The stakes are just so low
 
@SPavel I've only been to London once and I was indeed a bit unhappy there
2
I'm not really a big city person.
 
I liked London when I went
 
The parks were awesome though.
 
It's much less dense than New York and smaller than Moscow
So it was a nice break
 
London has about as much park as Helsinki has city (in surface area)
That was a bit mind-boggling back then.
 
5:08 PM
@kviiri yeah but Helsinki is like half a million people
 
@SPavel And it's not really dense at all, so it stops looking like a city fairly fast outside the city center.
 
If you put those people in Manhattan, it's only about 25 sq km
 
Practically speaking, Helsinki is a city of about one million residents, because it's also the urban center for the people of the neighboring "cities" of Espoo, Vantaa and Kauniainen that are just collections of suburbs not unlike the ones in the outskirts of Helsinki. Except Kauniainen because it's just a single suburb.
The administrative boundary in between is rather arbitrary, in a sense.
 
@kviiri Same with New York - the Greater NY Metropolitan Area encompasses parts of New York State, New Jersey, and Connecticut
The city and state lines are less important than the commuter rail and automobile bridges that allow the "bridge and tunnel" crowd to commute into New York for work
 
@SPavel Yeah and I recall hearing something like there being a single non-stop urban area from Boston to Washington too
 
5:14 PM
@kviiri The Acela Corridor? It would be a bit of an overstatement to call it a single urban area
 
Okay. Our schoolbooks are known to be wrong from time to time :)
 
I've taken ground transport between these cities, there are large gaps of nothing as well as "Trump country" - rural poor areas.
 
USA is big enough for there to be a lot of countryside, yup. I learned that by failing several times in Geoguessr :)
...but I still haven't really thought about that also being the case for the East Coast. In my (admittedly warped) perception it's always been a very densely populated area.
@SPavel Incidentally, on the same trip I went to London, I went to this little village of Port Isaac... which is where Doc Martin is filmed.
We actually saw the show being shot
 
@kviiri It's much more dense than the Midwest and West Coast, for sure
You can see that if you look at the election map
Or a map of counties
 
There's a really neat line of demarcation between "small counties" and "large counties" there
It even follows the state borders!
...most of the way
Oh woe, they didn't hotfix Cherryh today :<
 
5:28 PM
@SPavel The term "Midwest" annoys me on fundamental levels, given that is describes the middle-north portion of the country.
 
@GreySage It's not the mid-West of the country\
It's the mid-West of the Anglosphere
Snugly nestled between the South and Canada
 
5:48 PM
@goodguy5 THe problem with allowing Shield as Armor, is that it means for instances where you don't want a shield to be armor (like a spellcaster) then they can't.
 
what?
I can't follow that sentence
 
sorry, in response to your comment about allowing Shields to count as armor.
 
yes, I get that
 
If you allow shields to count as armor for Defence, then you're now ruling that Shields Armor, right?
 
oh, I understand now
No. I'm saying that I would be willing to change the rule "Defense Fighting Style" to say "while wearing armor or wielding a shield"
I updated my comment to be more clear
 
5:53 PM
ahh. I get it. I'm not sure if it makes it OP or not, though. For the unarmored defense options, that feat can be a pretty big deal for bounded accuracy reasons.
 
sure, but you'd have to dip into fighter/paladin to get it.
 
@SevenSidedDie OK, that makes sense, what I did in the review queue in order to help a new member maybe get the answer closer to SE some others saw as too far off target. Thanks. (and also thanks for explaining the format thing). The answer was coming from the "get the most out of the char" view where the question was coming from a DM, not player, PoV.
 
@goodguy5 speaking of that comment, that counts as answers or partial answers in comments so you may want to remove that.
 
@goodguy5 also true, but not a bad dip for another +1 AC.
 
@Rubiksmoose how does that count as a partial answer?
the answer to the question is clearly "no".
 
5:55 PM
@goodguy5 Comments are for clarifications. Yours is kind of like a discussion - which is not the goal of SE.
 
ugh
how do I portray what I was saying, then?
 
@NautArch As far as I can tell, the general sentiment is that a Shield does count as armor (for the purposes of failing cast spells while not proficient with them), but I haven't been able to find a supported yes/no on the question.
 
@goodguy5 The rule of thumb is that if you aren't asking for clarification about the question itself it doesn't belong in the comment.
 
But writing a frame-challenge type answer with a "this is what I'd do and why" with (hopefully) actual table gameplay to support can be helpful.
 
@goodguy5 I would suggest writing it as part of an answer.
 
5:57 PM
@nautarch amen
 
@GreySage I think it's more accurate to say that "armor and shields can both count as something you're not proficient in, for the sake of casting spells"
@Rubiksmoose fiiiiiiiiine. Seems like a terrible answer, but so be it.
 
@goodguy5 Not trying to be a jerk btw, but I've been noticing it a LOT recently and it is not what the comments are for
@goodguy5 I mean I wouldn't put just that in an answer really. But comments such as those (which are working towards a solution to the problem) belong in answers.
 
*belong in answers
 
@goodguy5 hahaha oops.
that was a test. you passed.
 
5:59 PM
@NautArch I am not seeing what you are referencing. What do you mean?
 
I know you're not trying to be a jerk. I just have some fundamental differences in how I view "good" answers
 
@goodguy5 well my comments to you were more focused on not answering in the comments. You don't have to write it as an answer of course. And you might find that it does indeed make for a poor answer that is up to you.
Feb 21 at 0:09, by noneuklid
but within the context of rules of any game, whether D&D or QUAGS, the SE format is for answerable questions. "the rules say this but i think this" isn't a good answer.
Feb 21 at 0:10, by BESW
@noneuklid No, actually, that's a much better answer than just "the rules say this," provided there's also good support for the opinion.
@goodguy5 if you read through that conversation there @BESW makes some amazing points.
 
noted
hey, someone across the pond from me..... how does UK spell Defense?
 
@Rubiksmoose Conversely, "the rules say this but I think this" makes a terrible question, because in most cases it's not actually a question at all.
 
@goodguy5 I'm no expert, so I'd guess "defenze". Those Brits sure love their zees!
 
6:05 PM
>.>
I'm asking so I know whether to edit this "defence" or not
 
@kviiri You mean "zed"s?
 
Colleagues brought a ton of British and Chinese snacks
Let the feast begin!
 
@GreySage Oh rats, every language pronounces them differently... :<
It's actually "zet" or "zeta" even in Finnish, so I guess I was being a bit hypercorrectionist.
 
@kviiri No, just USA pronounces them differently
 
@GreySage oh, criziz averzed then.
 
6:07 PM
@goodguy5 The UK spells defense R-O-Y-A-L N-A-V-Y
 
From a quick google it looks like "defence" is a real British spelling.
 
lol
 
Which is odd, because in Canada we mostly use British spellings, but "Defense" looks more right to me.
 
I studied French in comprehensive school, and I found it a bit funny that in French, "y" is considered to be the "Greek i". Only quite recently I learned that this dates back to the Roman conquest of Greece, when "y" was added to the Latin alphabet for use with Greek loanwords.
 
I blame DnD and JRPGs translated by Americans
 
6:09 PM
@kviiri My favourite bit in Stargate Atlantis is when the aliens are confused what a "zed pee em" is and McKay has to explain that it's the same thing as a zee pee em but his people pronounce Z differently than the Americans the aliens have been dealing with so far
 
@GreySage Very good point. Those are always incredibly frustrating. "I disagree with the rules, please validate my opinion" is how they often come accross.
 
The aliens do not have an elevated opinion of McKay after that conversation
 
Also, I assume it was one of you jokers that up-dooted my answer, so thanks for the rep
 
@goodguy5 A rising tide ups all votes
 
@SPavel RPG General Chat is a Tide ad?
 
6:11 PM
@Yuuki Yes, It's a Tide ad.
 
@Yuuki Ooh sorry you rolled a 1, the ration you bit into turns out to have been a Tide pod
 
@kviiri It's the same in Spanish, Y is I Griega, I is I Latina
 
@SPavel A few weeks ago I wouldn't have know what a Tide pod is and assumed it's some sort of DnD magic item that creates water.
 
One of my co-workers brought in a large bag of Tide pods and placed it in the office kitchen area. Chaotic evil at its finest.
 
XD
 
6:15 PM
@kviiri Do you not have Tide in Finlandia?
 
@SPavel Not that I know of, no. Although I wouldn't be likely to know of it anyway, because my SO usually does the laundry business.
 
Although in Russia a lot of products are rebranded (Mr. Clean is called Mr. Proper, I think Tide is branded as Ace)
maybe it's the same case
 
@GreySage that you can cast spells with a shield.
 
Could well be! Rebranding is quite common
 
@GreySage but I see what you're saying about requiring proficiency to cast. But I'm not sure that makes them the same. Just that you ahve to be proficient in shields to cast witha shield and with armor to cast in armor.
 
6:23 PM
@NautArch The problem is that the Spellcasting section calls out "wearing armor you're not proficient in" (paraphrasing) as stopping spellcasting. Honestly it makes sense that Shields should count as armor there, but then they don't count as armor other sections that specifically call out armor.
 
Well I'll throw my answer into the mix.
 
And I've yet to see a definitive tweet or errata on the topic
It's just inconsistent and unanswered, which annoys me
 
How is it inconsistent?
 
@GreySage the Crawford tweet in my answer might satisfy you, but it is not expansive. He just says no. They definitely could have been more explicit here.
 
@goodguy5 Lots of things say "Armor", some of them probably mean "Armor or Shields" while others probably mean just "Armor", not shields
 
6:28 PM
such as?
I've never noticed it to be inconsistent or confusing.
./shrug
 
@goodguy5 Compare Fighting Style: Defense and Cast a Spell: casting in armor. Both say armor, one really means just armor, the other probably means armor or shields.
@Rubiksmoose That is a recurring problem I have with Crawford tweets, he answers the exact context, but doesn't elaborate to give guidance in other situations.
 
@GreySage it is really frusterating
 
@Rubiksmoose nice find on the jC tweet. DIdn't even think to look :(
 
@NautArch Thanks :) it was actually surprisingly hard to find, but I'm getting quite adept at pulling out obscure tweets relating to the topic at hand
 
@Rubiksmoose is sageadvice.eu down for you guys?
 
6:39 PM
@NautArch it looks like it. If not down then incredibly slow.
 
TIL the compound used to make things bioluminescent is called Luciferin
So, when you see a jellyfish glow, it's because it's a little bit demonic
 
@Rubiksmoose heh, found a 2nd tweet saying the same :)
 
@NautArch Its working for me, and has an AWESOME question at the top :)
 
@GreySage and @KorvinStarmast made a good point in the comments as well. Under proficiencies, Shields ARE listed under Armor.
 
Elemental Adept, "you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2." Does that include the 1 in the numbers 10, 11, or 12?
 
6:42 PM
@GreySage back working for me. and yeah.....i'm not sure i'd say that's "awesome"
 
rolls d12 I got a 22
 
:D
 
When Elemental Adept refers to a 1 on a die, it's referring to the number 1, not the digit 1 that appears in other numbers. #DnD https://twitter.com/Houdini0110/status/950935699297103872
Curse you, Crawford!!!!
 
Aww, that means I can't use my unary d11111111111111111111 dice
 
@GreySage fair enough. After some reading, I agree with you assessment of inconsistency. I feel that the intent is clear.
and I don't have the errata on hand, so there may be something in there
 
6:58 PM
I really like that attempt at cheese lol
@NautArch nice! Not sure how I missed it, but good find (even better than the one I found!)
@MikeQ hahaha
 
I really like that someone found the density of meat and used it to calculate how much snake would fit in a 10' cube
-3
A: How large a snake can a Yuan-Ti Abomination become?

BorghBy volume So, accorcing to this, pig meat has a density of 0.93 g/ml, a 10x10 cube a Large creature can occupy holds 9.29 m³ of snake, this means a 8.63-ton snake. By weight If you go by the "weight" defenition for size the Large snake will be between 500 lbs. and 2 tons, in metric 225 to 200...

 
@goodguy5 "This snake is shaped like a cube. No one knows why."
 
"A world expert in Anacondas asserts that the mass of a snake is related to the third power of the length." whoa
 
imma upvote it
I'm not sure why it had so many downvotes. it's a great answer... kinda
 
@goodguy5 I'm guessing because it doesn't actually help to answer the question really at all lol
 
7:12 PM
I mean, "how large?". "about 600 pounds"
 
@goodguy5 oh I see. size in terms of weight. Interesting.
 
but also, the book tells you how heavy "large" creatures are.

Using snekmath, he backwards engineered the length of the snake!
it's actually a REALLY good answer by any metric that isn't "explain D&D size categories"
 
good thing he didn't have to break into calculussssssssss
 
ha
bonus points for not using any other S's in that comment
 
@goodguy5 Either 8 tonnes or 13 meters
 
7:18 PM
So, he calculated the max mass of snake that would fit in a 10' cube.
Then he got the lower and upper bounds (500lbs and 2000lbs) from the book's description.

Then got the length's of snake that correlate to those weights.

Therefore the "answer" to "how big a snake can I shapeshift into?" is:
"Practically, between 20 and 40 feet. However, theoretically a snake of 80+ feet could fit into a 10' cube"
 
@goodguy5 First we had snake flu, now snake math
What's next, snake astrophysics?
 
I'm just saying, I'm annoyed on that person's behalf. It shouldn't have a -1.
 
Zoom 📹 : @henrykingcat https://t.co/4tX3GpeTOK
 
7:33 PM
@SPavel I believe it is written: asssstrophysssssicsssss
 
XD
 
@goodguy5 I think my problem with that answer is that it's a real-world physics answer that is generally irrelevant to D&D. What matters mechanically in the vast majority of cases is going to be size category. We don't know how much a Frost Giant weights, but we know what size category it is (even though it is significantly taller than the category defines as the space it can control.)
 
@NautArch Maybe frost giants hunch
In a mountainous environment such as the one frost giants inhabit, plants and animals are small and close to the ground, winds are powerful, ground is uneven, and stability is all-important. I would envision frost giants walking almost like gorillas, using their legs and one arm to anchor onto the terrain and using one arm to wield a tool or weapon.
 
@SPavel quite possibly :) I'm trying to think of cases where actual height/weight matter and those seem to be pretty edge cases. Like carrying capacity, or just a DM call on whether or not you could do carry out the body of one or something.
 
Even on flat ground, they are accustomed to stability over speed. There is no reason to ever run on a mountain, nor terrain that would enable it.
 
7:39 PM
@SPavel maybe, but ALL Giants are classed as Huge. But they range from 16' to 26' in height. And I'm sure their weights are also wildly different.
 
@SPavel "There is no reason to ever run on a mountain" Counterpoint: avalanche
 
@Rubiksmoose A frost giant would know how to predict an avalanche ahead of time
And not be where it is.
 
@SPavel or be the one making them lol
 
In fact, I imagine their entire society would be very deliberate and slow-paced
Imagine the Estonian stereotype
 
@NautArch If that is the case, then why not suggest an edit?
 
7:41 PM
But 26 foot tall giants who live in an environment that can't possibly support mammals of their size
 
@goodguy5 Because there is no edit to that answer that makes it relevant to me in D&D.
@SPavel Well, the 26' giants are the Storm Giants. Frost are a mere 21' :D
 
@NautArch Where do Storm giants live?
For some reason I envision all giants living on mountains
 
"Large is a size category in D&D. Generally speaking, that means it occupies a 10' cube. ... rest of post"
 
Fire giants on volcanoes, Frost giants on tall peaks
Storm giants also on peaks?
3.5 Storm Giants live on "warm mountains" whatever that is
 
Mountains with a positive personality
 
7:46 PM
Along with Fire giants. Frost giants live on cold mountains, Cloud and Stone giants live on temperate mountains
 
Storm giants live in isolated refuges so far above the surface of the world or below the sea that they are beyond the reach of most other creatures . Some make their abodes in cloud-top castles so high that flying dragons appear as specks
below. Others live atop mountain peaks that pierce the clouds. Some occupy palaces covered with algae and coral at the bottom of the ocean, or grim fortresses in undersea rifts.
 
Cloud giants are "usually neutral good or neutral evil" which is a hell of a society
 
So in other words, N-themed giants live on N-themed mountains?
 
@MikeQ There are also ocean giants
And sand giants, and death giants
I don't want to adventure on Death Mountain
But I do want to make a Giant Were-Elephant NPC
 
There are also Tech giants, New York giants, and They Might Be giants
 
7:55 PM
@MikeQ There are also the Vancouver Giants, but no one likes them.
 
@MikeQ If you're going to go with third party giants, I'm most frightened of the Gas Giants and the Ice Giants
 
@MikeQ Ah, the Schrodinger's Giants.
 
Of course, the most benevolent giants are the Shouldersof Giants
 
No, the most benevolent are the Big Friendly Giants. Who live on Big Friendly mountainous terrains.
 
@SPavel Few people realize that when Newton said that, he wasn't being metaphorical. He literally stood on the shoulders of a storm giant as it clubbed his critics at Cambridge into submission.
 
8:02 PM
Force = mass x acceleration + 1d20
 
Newton's infamous occult studies were really just him brainstorming his new campaign.
 
I"m still coming to grips with Size controlling space having very little to do with size of the actual creature.
 
@NautArch It's a simplification of "Here are where the important bits are". That's why reach is usually larger than the creature's space, like a huge dragon with a 15 ft body and 45 ft wingspan.
In other words, it's the creature's hitbox.
 
@MikeQ that makes a lotmore sense, almost gets weirder with smaller than larger.
 
If you're familiar with Dark Souls, you should know that a creature's hit box =/= the creature's actual position. They are, at best, loosely correlated.
 
8:11 PM
@MikeQ or any Bethesda game (cough fallout cough). Of course there you are lucky if the creature is where the creature is supposed to be much less their hitboxes XD
@Yuuki I wouldn't want Newton as my DM. Too mercurial.
 
@Rubiksmoose He's a stickler for applying real-world physics to the game, I'm not a fan either.
@MikeQ Eh, Dark Souls has some pretty good hitboxes in singleplayer. The netcode is horrid though, so multiplayer hitboxes are janky as heck.
 
@Yuuki I do not need to be reminded of the 10 meter glitch-stab
 
@MikeQ I think part of my fervor in fighting the "katana in fiction" trope comes from Dark Souls PTSD.
 
@Yuuki Ah, good ol' washing pole.
 
@MikeQ That's how Musashi beat Kojiro, he took advantage of poor netcode and an OP weapon.
 
8:20 PM
I was referring to opponents who approach from the front, seem to be a safe distance away, then suddenly they're backstabbing you with a refrigerator-sized greatclub
I'll admit that the comment about hitboxes is more applicable to enemy weapons and not enemy bodies
 
8:36 PM
i think i bought dark souls and didn't like it.
didn't get very far.
 
@NautArch Did you try getting gud?
 
@MikeQ you know people always told me to get gud in Super Smash Bros. as well. I could never find out where to buy any though.
 
@MikeQ I wasn't very gud at it, either.
 
Honestly I wasn't very gud at it either, but I became okay enough to get through it a few times. At first I absolutely hated the game, but once I learned to accept the constant character death as a form of entertainment, I realized that I got better at it.
 
@MikeQ I'm fairly happy piddling about in Witcher 3. Still only level 33 so a lot of gameplay left. And I'm waiting for the DLC on Fallout4 to drop to 75% on a sale :) to play that.
 
8:44 PM
@KorvinStarmast That looks like a good catch--thanks for asking/bringing it up. I saw that flag come in and gave it too-quick a read. (cc:@SevenSidedDie)
 
@nitsua60 No worries, the answer did need some work to fit the question, and I think I can see how some of the reviewers felt it was "too far from the target" on that score.
Heh, I guess this question isn't Players vs DM after all, based on the querent's update.
 
@KorvinStarmast It's more like Player expectations vs DM expectations, does that not count as Player vs DM?
 
@MikeQ based on his latest edit in the question, it appears like "that one annoying thing my wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/significant other does that I wish I could change." Can this marriage be saved? :)
 
I don't know what that means
 
It's an interpersonal relationship issue, not a game issue.
There are plenty of relationships where people get along but there is that one annoying habit the other one has.
 
8:54 PM
Ah, okay. Thank you for the translation
 
No worries, I was trying to be funny, and that did not work.
 
I understand. "I was trying to be funny, and that did not work" should be my motto on this site.
 
Hey, that very fact is why I did not pursue that career as a stand up comic. I need to pay the rent and eat, ya see ... :)
 
@KorvinStarmast fwiw I thought it was humorous as someone with a wife who reads reddit r/relationship posts to me (sometimes in a schadenfreude-y way)
 
@Rubiksmoose My wife sometimes reads FB posts from her dental hygienist FB group out loud to me until I can't take it anymore. Which is about two sentences. And so we find earplugs to be a great invention.
 
9:07 PM
@NautArch Man, Witcher 3 is just such an amazing game.
@KorvinStarmast That definitely sounds like a good application of that particular invention
 
@Rubiksmoose I absolutely love it. STories are great, world is nice, and I enjoy the fights.
 
@NautArch I actually was soooo hyped for Fallout 4 and was even one of the ones who was "defending" it from all the critique. But in the end it just wore away at me how shallow the game was. I never finished.
 
@Rubiksmoose I enjoyed that, too. but the stories aren't quite as interesting.
 
Before I abondonded it (but as I started to tire of it) though I started playing W3. And man, that game just blew me away. Like you said, stories, world, combat all of them well done.
 
Are we referring to fallout the video game?
 
9:11 PM
I still haven't finished it, but there are a few missions (some of them even minor side missions) that are seared into my memory for being so good.
 
@KorvinStarmast No, they're discussing fallout the flamethrower
 
@KorvinStarmast Yup! Fallout 4 specifically
 
@MikeQ I wasn't sure if fallout had an RPG also.
When I bought Diablo II I got a small kit that allowed you to try to play Diablo II as D&D. (3.0, I think). Maybe it was the expansion set. Been a few years.
 
@KorvinStarmast None that I know of. Though it is getting a tabletop board game and a miniatures game.
 
Ugh. I have tried to start and complete Mass Effect twice, but I just don't like FPS. My son is a bit frustrated with me, because he feels that ME is one of the better Video games ever.
He likes the story and the permutations of your choices.
 
9:15 PM
@KorvinStarmast I haven't tried Mass Effect, either. But I've been a Fallout fan for a while. I do still really enjoy the world and the character building in it.
and the combat in it is still really fun. And I thought it was pretty gore-filled until witcher started cleaving arms and bodies.
 
I tried to explain to him that the isometric mode, third person I like versus the FPS mode, gives me headaches. Same problem in WoW, but if I limit WoW to 1 hour sessions, max, we can play a bit together.
I can Play League of Legends for a coupole of hours on end ... though I am not very good at it.
 
@NautArch oh yeah and BTW I'm not knocking you liking it. It just wasn't what I was looking for/wanted it to be (even though I was a Fallout fan since New Vegas)
 
@KorvinStarmast ME1 is doable in isometric and is more like an RPG than an FPS
It's the later ones that are more Call of Duty
 
@Rubiksmoose I can get that :) I also generally don't play these games on very difficult settings. I dont play them to get frustrated at combat, I play them to escape into a world where I"m a hero :)
 
@KorvinStarmast I have only ever played the first two Mass Effects
and they were fun but,... the hype/promise of your choices bleeding into the next game were lackluster
 
9:20 PM
Mass Effect 1 was going to be the new Star Wars, the later ones...were not
 
however, as self contained games, they were pretty great
 
Meanwhile I'm still waiting for KotOR 3
 
and as far as ME 3,... I just didn't want to disappoint myself so I never played it
 
@SPavel You mean mass effect?
 
@MikeQ Mass Effect 3 was a while ago already though
 
9:27 PM
@SPavel loved kotor!
waiting on that half-life 3 :D
 
ugh half life 3
I gave up on that
 
fire burns eternal
 
@trogdor Me too. Now i'm waiting for half life 4 instead.
 
lol
 
9:41 PM
@SPavel I'm not going to wait for KotOR 3 until Star Wars leaves EA.
 
wouldn't that just be great
 
@trogdor The thing about Mass Effect 3 is that there's no way for you to not be disappointed.
 
@Yuuki except not to play it :P
 
So I guess you can applaud them for a consistent gameplay experience.
@trogdor Ah but see now you're not playing a Mass Effect game when you know one exists.
 
this is true
 
9:43 PM
@trogdor My son told me that the fan community were mixed in their feelings about how that worked out.
 
@KorvinStarmast I mean, I am sure there are some people who didn't hate it? but for me it was a lot of callbacks to stuff I had done before without changing any real outcomes in the game
 
On the bright side, Andromeda is even worse than 3
 
Listen, if I wanted my life choices to boil down to which color light I preferred, I would've opened up the CORSAIR products page not play Mass Effect 3.
 
@Yuuki this is why I didn't bother XD
 
Everyone should just play Monster Hunter.
 
9:45 PM
to be fair, 2 already had me feeling uneasy because all the stuff I had done in 1 just,.... didn't matter very much
so for 3 I waited for feedback from people who played it
and most of that feedback was "this #$#%#ing sucked
 
I think previous choices matter slightly more in 3, but the game is still kinda terrible.
 
Sorry I stirred up a hornets nest of bad memories. Adieu, mes amis.
 
@Yuuki well even if they mattered more, the whole thing about the ending was a completely different horrible curveball
@KorvinStarmast hey no big deal
 
@trogdor Oh yeah, the ending is basically deus ex machina.
Or diabolus ex machina, depending on your point of view.
 
lol
 
9:49 PM
I'm starting to see the same things creeping up in Dragon Age, tbh.
 
a friend of mine explained that the thing he was most disapointed about was that he spent the game gathering a multi-alien-race-fleet of ships to fight the big bads and then it didn't mean anything at the end of the game
 
Curveballs out of nowhere in each new entry.
 
that is some horrible payoff
 
It doesn't help that the entirety of the plot of Inquisition is a payoff for playing DLC from Dragon Age 2.
If you hadn't played the Legacy DLC, the main villain of Inquisition basically comes out of nowhere.
 
@trogdor I had a similar experience in TES 4 Oblivion, but that was due to bad coding rather than bad storywriting
 
9:53 PM
Honestly, an "out of nowhere" villain is fine for a new series entry, but it's a different case when some players might go "oh, it's that guy" just because they paid some more money.
 
what a scummy thing
personally I never got too far into Dragon Age
I played literally the first part of the first game
it just didn't grab me
 
10:17 PM
@trogdor They matter a lot off screen, the surprising thing is that it's not a big change in-game
(the thing that should change is a pretty big ME1 spoiler though)
 
@SPavel that is what I mean though
and yeah I avoided saying what things I was disappointed about for that exact reason
 
Based on the last decision you make in ME1, you get an extra conversation where "we have dismissed those claims" and a radio broadcast about fleet balance
 
it's just, even the smaller stuff I did,... I would have loved there to be a few side missions I could do depending on those choices
but there were not very many of those at all
that being said, there were some missions I really had to hunt around to find
and those were great
I vaguely remember a mystery based mission where you have to figure some thing out about a missing ship or something
I loved that one,... but I can't remember many details about it anymore
 
@trogdor Wasn't that ME1?
 
@SPavel I think it was 2 but like
my memory of exactly which one some missions were could easily have bled together
but either way my point was I liked the games
buuuuut it was also disappointing that there was not the kind of continuity in choice that was hyped up/promised or at least that I was led to believe there was
 
10:24 PM
I liked how you could ram a Geth juggernaut with the tank, jump out, shoot it while it was struggling to stand up, then jump back in the tank and run it over again
 
lol
 
The thing with "your choices matter" game is that they can be long, or have many branches, but not both.
And a triple-A game like ME cannot be short.
 
yeah I know it would be a lot of work
but like, maybe don't promise stuff you can't deliver on
 
Back when games were cheaper, it was doable
take Star Control
2
 
oooh Star Control 2 yep
 
10:25 PM
So many different paths you could take
 
played that
 
A long game with lots of choices often becomes a programming mess, trying to account for every choice the player has made
 
it was fantastic
 
Imagine making that today, it would be bonkers
The best choice based game I've seen is Telltale's Walking Dead stuff but even that doesn't branch that much
 
@GreySage this is fair but again,... maybe don't promise it if you can't do it? I think that should be simple enough xD
 
10:26 PM
@trogdor Completely agreed
 
@trogdor That's the opposite of how marketing works
If you only promised what you could actually do, you'd never get hype
 
@SPavel ooo oohh oooh marketing
 
That was the whole reason ME: Andromeda made so much money
 
sorry I barfed a little, won't happen again :P
 
They made a garbage game and made sure that reviews wouldn't be out until most people who were gonna buy it had bought it
And then dropped support
Standard coookie cutter MBA "pump and dump" strategy
 
10:28 PM
@SPavel The perfect recipe for making lots of money quick with little investment
 
the argument could also be made that they lost future sales in the long run
I never bought ME3, or in fact any of their other games after
I am not a case study all by myself, but,... I can't imagine I am literally the only person who had that reaction
 
10:48 PM
> Today I made an executive cleric decision and had everyone in the party cut their finger off and take turns wearing our ring of regeneration so if any of them died and the body couldn't be retrieved I could use my rod of resurrection on the finger. Now our keep has several pickled finger jars labeled with our names.
Question: does resurrection allow you to keep all your memories since the finger was severed or do you only possess the memories up until that finger was severed?
 
@Yuuki Dunno, you should ask that on some sort of Q&A site for RPGs
 
@MikeQ I hear reddit is great.
 
I use this site called Stack Overflow for my programming questions. If only there was a Stack Overflow for RPGs.
 
@Yuuki memories and soul are so often left completely unaccounted for in these kinds of spells, but I would say that memories stay with your soul. And your soul would return to the severed finger with all of its memories intact.
@Yuuki Man that would be swell
 
@Yuuki how silly XD
 
10:55 PM
@Rubiksmoose It would be really interesting to play a campaign where your party woke up in a church after resurrection and it turned out you guys were some band of legendary heroes that died in some battle against the BBEG.
Alternately, there's a really long period of time between "legendary hero" and resurrection so a lot of the stuff your characters supposedly did are now basically myths and legends.
And no one's sure what's true and what's fantasy.
 
@Yuuki oooooooooo that would be a neat setup.
Alternatively, they could have been a band of BBEGs and have no idea of their past. Do they follow in their old footsteps or do they start anew down the path of good?
 
Ben
@Yuuki Maybe that's ho long it'd take for your bodies to regrow after casting Res on your finger
 
Ooo, I think I found a variant question that I could post on Stack Overflow!
> What happens if two clerics try to resurrect the same person at the same time but with two different fingers in very different locations? Race condition?
wtb thread-safe resurrection
 
@Yuuki underground cleric resurrection racing. It is all the rage these days.
 
@Yuuki Did that with a time skip in a campaign once, but without the PC memory lapse.
 
11:02 PM
@Rubiksmoose A fun tv show called "Dark Matter" on Netflix had basically that premise. Wasn't the most original show, but it was entertaining
 
Ben
@Yuuki We played that once. We sort of just "woke up". Some G-Man dude met us and told us we had stuff to do, and in return he'd tell us about our previous life.
The campaign got cut short after only a few sessions though
 
@Ben aw :(
 
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