TRPG General Chat

eimyr

00:00

he says Sleepy 10/10

max level apparently

Rafael Santos

anyone here have read the Animosity comics? it'a about a world were all animals gain "human" level intelligence and ability to "speak" !

eimyr

I think I saw one once at a friend's place.

Rafael Santos

and the best talking dog movie of all time and also personal responsible for the birth of one of my favorite games (Fallout)... A Boy and His Dog!

eimyr

@Anaphory Almost didn't notice you there, hi, how are you doing?

Rafael Santos

does anyone here had experience with "fantasy horror games" and can share it? i'm running Strange Aeons Pathfinder Adventure Path and would love some personal insight of other people!

eimyr

00:16

hmmm

horror, yes, fantasy, no

BESW

Not sure what's meant by "fantasy horror."

eimyr

I'm afraid you might find my advice entirely useless in the context of your game.

BESW

Both terms are extremely broad and vague.

I've got a decent amount of experience and study in a variety of horror contexts, enough to know that you gotta drill down past "horror" to specify what kind of horror you're dealing with.

eimyr

@BESW BESW, it's a Pathfinder adventure.

BESW

@eimyr And to me, every Pathfinder adventure is probably gonna be gore.

Rafael Santos

00:20

@BESW it's "d&d" with horror elements!

BESW

What kind of insights are you looking for?

How to pace the tension and catharsis over the course of a session? How to get player buy-in so they aren't working to subvert the themes? Whether the d20 system is better suited for a game that's primarily dread, terror, or gore?

Rafael Santos

i guess how can you keep the horror tension and catharsis when players are all "magical x-men" (D&D and Pathfinder are exactly that hahaha)!

BESW

What horror elements does it contain? Body horror inflicted on the PCs through mutations or mind control? Existential horror that challenges the PCs' notions of their importance in the world? The nauseating horror of vivid descriptions of violence and carnage?

The d20 System isn't super suited for agency-loss horror of any kind. PCs tend to be able to bypass it, or the dice do on their own.

A good technique used by Cthulhu Dark is to not say no, but have that not matter.

Rafael Santos

and all of the above, it is "Lovecraft inspired", so there is some mind control, existential horror, fear of the unknown, powers from beyond, nightmares and dreamscapes, and as all D&D like tons of gore as you wisely pointed!

BESW

Erph, "Lovecraft inspired."

Let's assume they don't mean Lovecraft, but those who followed and expanded his Mythos into pulp adventure. Because D&D-likes won't play nice with Lovecraft's originals.

Rafael Santos

00:28

hahahaha it's their words not mine! they even have some pages talking about it...

BESW

Lean into how awesome the PCs are. They can defeat the minions of the horror, they can heal the wounded, raise the dead, and call on the power of the gods to aid them in discovering the source of the horror.

They can enter dreams, pass through the worldwalls, and banish terrors with the flick of a wand.

...what you need to do to make that horrible, is one of two things.

First, you can make it not enough. They easily can fix what's done, but they can't easily stop it from happening in the first place.

Second, you can deal with the toll it takes on them. Probably with some kind of corruption or insight mechanic that accumulates over time.

The first strategy is about making them care for the world, and making them personally hate the evil behind the suffering they can't prevent.

The second is about turning the PCs into ticking time bombs themselves.

Handy hint: if you give something hit points, that means it can be killed.

The d20 System loves giving everything hit points and then pretending some other qualities can make it hard to kill, but that's not the point. Post-Lovecraft Mythos horror is about despair, and hit points give you hope. If the dice just roll right, if we can just get more levels, if we can find the right weapons...

In my D&D 4e campaign we defeated the Horror From Beyond Reality with an emotion cannon. Everyone took turns sitting in the chair and thinking about a strong emotion they'd experienced during their adventures, and the cannon shot that feeling at the city-sized monster crawling through a hole in the sky.

(The cannon had been invented by the evil empire; they'd planned to torture a prisoner of war in the chair and aim the cannon at oncoming armies.)

Rafael Santos

"(The cannon had been invented by the evil empire; they'd planned to torture a prisoner of war in the chair and aim the cannon at oncoming armies.)" I think the Dark Tower script writer must have been spying on your group!

BESW

Re: tension and catharsis. First, get group buy-in for the game.

No horror game works if the players aren't willing to be horrified.

Rafael Santos

And i loved all of your suggestions, some of them i had already implemented on the game, and very well said about hit points give you hope, players usually know that everything has a way to kill even if they don't know how yet"

BESW

Next, dread is how you build tension. Terror and gore are how you release it.

Dread is fear of the unknown. Tell them something's coming. Show them evidence of what it's done. Let them see its victims, find its tracks, meet its minions.

Rafael Santos

00:43

the way the writers of those adventures tell people to add horror is through difficult encounters, and man that's some lazy writing!

BESW

Use gore to add to the tension while providing a small release. Gore is a tangible, understandable thing, something you can wrap your brain around--that's a catharsis. But if the gore is also asking questions like "what could have done this?" or "what does it want?" that builds the dread.

Quick example from Cthulhu Dark:

After hearing the lighthouse keeper's assistance rant about seeing a stranger moving in the dark even though there's no one else on the island, you say goodnight to the lighthouse keeper and go up to your room.
The door is unlocked; you remember locking it. Nobody's inside, but there's a strange smell.
You follow the smell to your bed, and pull back the covers to find the lighthouse keeper: dead for hours, carefully dissected with his organs neatly arranged on your pillow.

eimyr

ttfn

BESW

- dread: hints of unknown actor
- dread: hints of unknown activity
- dread: evidence of something bad
- terror: there's a body in your bed!
- gore: graphic description of horrible thing
- dread: what did this and why? Didn't you see the keeper just moments ago?

You may find the Cthulhu Dark scenario-building advice generically useful.

Rafael Santos

tks a lot, do you have any recommended literature on storytelling (and creating a story) that can be used on RPGs?

BESW

Nightmares of Mine by Kenneth Hite is, in my opinion, the gold standard must-read for all GMs who are at all interested in horror gaming.

It analyzes and deconstructs horror stories in books and film, then rebuilds them for RPG use.

It's where I got the dread/terror/gore trifecta.

Rafael Santos

00:57

nice, those kind of books never arrive in Brazil, i would love suggestions!

BESW

It's supposedly for Rolemaster, but almost all the content is genuinely applicable to any game context.

I've gotten benefit from reading the philosophy sections in games like Lovecraftesque, Call of Cthulhu, and Cthulhu Confidential, but they all require filtering through their particular playstyle lens.

I'm looking forward to Evil Hat's "Horror Toolkit" when it gets published.

Oh, don't explain things.

In horror, explanations are bad unless they cause people to ask even worse questions.

Also--gore isn't just about gross stuff.

Gore is any time you're asking the players (not the characters; horror is for the players) to endure something horrific for a period of time without a break.

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah. there isn't much that'd squick me out, but a detailed description of someone getting cooked alive in a fire would...

BESW

I once had a gore scene just by forcing the players to endure a conversation with an NPC that really really got on their nerves but they needed his cooperation for the mission.

Rafael Santos

@BESW what game was that?

BESW

@RafaelSantos D&D 4e, but the scene was pure RP, could've been in any system.

The gore was about being forced to endure someone whose politics and attitude was totally at odds with the party's, but their own ethics said that they needed to support him.

It was very personally uncomfortable for one of the characters, because the NPC embodied a conflict between pride and loyalty.

Kamola the Prince-Maker

Aug 28 '13 at 10:46, 19 minutes total – 55 messages, 4 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Nov 15 '13 at 17:39 by BESW

The elements of horror aren't limited to horror gaming.

"Horror" as a genre is just a way to say that those elements are central to the experience, rather than used for contrast and reinforcement of a different central experience.

trogdor

01:20

@BESW heh

Shalvenay

02:02

@KorvinStarmast -- it's game time

Rafael Santos

02:16

are you guys running a chat game?

Shalvenay

@RafaelSantos we're running a game off in roll20, actually

Rafael Santos

oh, i cant watch that from work hahahaha

Shalvenay

04:13

hey there @SoraTamashii

Sora Tamashii

07:11

yo

BESW

07:25

Klingon party: Vengeance Paladin for DPS, Valor Bard for support, Draconic Sorcerer for artillery, and the tank rolls a new character every week because the last one died gloriously.

Tweeted by alexandraerin on February 24, 2018 at 4:28 PM in reply to alexandraerin

BESW

09:17

The giant raccoon (Chapalmalania altaefrontis) lived in South America during the Pliocene & grew to 1.7 metres long, weighing up to 80kg (about the same size as a black bear). (Credit: Roman Uchytel)

Tweeted by Extinct_AnimaIs on January 22, 2018 at 6:45 PM

Ben

09:43

Ok... I have somehow confused myself.

A Dash action is not the same as a move action? I.e. in a turn you get your movement, and then action(s).

You can't dash as a part of your movement action can you?

trogdor

in?

Ben

5e

Soz lol

BESW

09:58

Random aside but I've always found it interesting how much people tend to focus on gear and tech for post-apocalyptic survival in art and IRL with survivalists. Knowledge matters more than gear, and having a community of decent people around you matters most of all. https://twitter.com/41Strange/status/966750484273836033

Tweeted by PasturesPolitic on February 24, 2018 at 2:33 AM

trogdor

lol

BESW

Like if someone did a post-apocalyptic movie where having excellent plant ID skills saved their butts, instead of the 23476th iteration of how to decapitate a zombie with a katana, I'd give you my wallet and my heart

Tweeted by PasturesPolitic on February 24, 2018 at 2:33 AM in reply to PasturesPolitic

Miniman

10:21

@Ben There's no such thing as a movement action in 5e. Dash is an action, the effect of which is to give you more movement.

Ben

10:34

Right

Ok :)

trogdor

10:49

fair enough

trogdor

11:03

is it like 4e (IE dash is just one action everyone can do, like charge or grapple or jump or ect.)?

Ben

@trogdor Yes

trogdor

mk

Ben

Well, charge isn't

trogdor

makes sense

@Ben you can't,.... charge in 5e?

Ben

Charge is now a Feat that allows you to follow up a dash with a shove or an attack as a bonus action

trogdor

11:08

ugh

that is,.... distasteful

Miniman

11:20

@trogdor They also made it a really terrible option.

trogdor

X(

wwwwwwhhyyyy

Miniman

Like, you spend a feat, but you don't get a good tactical option in return.

trogdor

I can't believe someone might have asked for that specific thing

Ben

I did

Lol

It helps open fights

trogdor

make charge a feat,.... please? pretty please?

@Ben but like, you could have just been able to do it without costing a feat I mean

I like charge, the feat cost is the thing I can't understand

Ben

11:25

Ah right

Shalvenay

13:39

hey there @ACuriousMind

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay hiya

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind how're things going?

ACuriousMind

Pretty well aside from an annoying cold

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind aww :/ alright here. you think you'll have time today to run if Pixie's available?

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay What time would that be? I have to work early tomorrow

Shalvenay

13:56

@ACuriousMind not sure yet

Shalvenay

15:46

hey there @goodguy5

goodguy5

oh heya

Shalvenay

how're things going?

goodguy5

chillin. playing 7 days to die.

my D&D group is today

KorvinStarmast

17:31

Did a little workshopping in comments on this question, and am hoping that PF/3.5 experienced folks can help with an answer. I think the title needs a revision, since they are trying to figure out 'do we or don't we' go unchained.

0

Q: Three years after, are the Unchained classes considered a success in redesign?

The context My RPG group recently discovered the "Unchained" classes, and wonder if we should adopt them, or not. On one hand, there is an existing balance between classes that could be changed with the modifications brought by Unchained (i.e. related question: "Why would a player choose to pla...

Shalvenay

hey there @KorvinStarmast and @WheatWizard

Wheat Wizard

Hello!

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay Oh Grand Champion of Dinosaur races, how fares thee?

Shalvenay

@WheatWizard how's it going?

@KorvinStarmast xD alright here. say, what did you think of how things went for our first session?

Wheat Wizard

It is going well. How are you?

KorvinStarmast

17:34

I expected it to take a bit to get the momentum going, but the dinosaur races were a blast.

Shalvenay

@WheatWizard doing alright here

KorvinStarmast

It went a little slow which is what happened in my first few 5e games and my first few r20 games. One needs to get one's bearings, as troggie's comments showed.

And the GUI takes a little getting used to..

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast yeah, I liked the dino races for an early city scene, and it was a good icebreaker to town, too. Hopefully the road trip turns into a good chance for the party to really gel together

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay Gel or die, eh?

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast more or less

KorvinStarmast

17:36

I am going to see if I can get nits to allow me to sell my scale mail and buy a chain shirt before we leave. I think I have enough gold now. that will increase a little what I can carry. so that we are not just on the edge of encumb all the time.

Shalvenay

@WheatWizard hoping I can get the DW group I'm in together, but schedules seem to be playing havoc with that

@KorvinStarmast that makes sense

Wheat Wizard

Ah well good luck. DW is fun. Are you GMing?

Shalvenay

might invest in a spell scroll or something myself

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay I'll post that in the back room.

Shalvenay

@WheatWizard no

KorvinStarmast

18:37

@Shalvenay I am writing up a little story of our episode 1, I'll let you know when I'm done. Feel free to suggest additional detail or edits if you think I left something out.

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast okiedokie :)

KorvinStarmast

I am about 1/2 way through, and now must do the dishes, etc.

Rubiksmoose

hey @Shalvenay and @KorvinStarmast

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose hullo, sorry, in and out doing chores.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast no need to apologize at all. I expect people to drop in and out of chat on a whim lol.

Shalvenay

19:50

hey there @Lillypalooza, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

BESW

21:26

@Shalvenay I just found out (from this Twitter thread) about the Sector General series:

@aschwortz The Sector General series by James White! It's from the 50s and 60s so it's retrograde in spots, but the central premise is that the remedy for interstellar war is interspecies emergency services.

Tweeted by kellydigges on February 25, 2018 at 4:20 PM in reply to aschwortz

I’d have imagined that night-time hunting by spotlight, or lamping, was a product of the age of electricity ~ but here’s a striking 1775 image from Rajasthan of a deer hunt being conducted by archer with aid of woman holding giant, flaming torch (Walters Art Museum, Baltimore)

Tweeted by artinsociety on February 25, 2018 at 7:00 AM

BESW

21:56

Astrapotherium (the Great Lightning Beast) looked like a cross between a tapir & an elephant. However,they are unrelated to modern elephants

Tweeted by Extinct_AnimaIs on August 16, 2017 at 5:01 PM

Acts7Seven

22:57

amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0786966246

Mayv29, 2018

Wizards RPG Team
D&D MORDENKAINEN'S TOME OF FOES

Stoked for this one.

The Oracle

0

Q: The [multiple-systems] tag has been burninated

I've just burninated multiple-systems. I'm leaving this post for record-keeping. It had the following tag wiki excerpt (and no full tag wiki): For questions that involve multiple rules systems at once, or interactions between them. It was on these questions, almost all of which now have th...

discussion tags burninate-request

trogdor

lol

Ben

23:42

Murrnin all

trogdor

Good morning

Ben

I'm having issue with that phrase. I mostly thought it might be the "good" part, but now I realise it's the "morning" part.

(Been dealing with a teething 1yo)

trogdor

Ooooh

I was going to ask why

But I think I understand now XD

Ben

Haha

Well I will say thankyou for the concern :)

trogdor

At least as much as I can understand without having dealt with that myself

Ben

23:48

Oh, don't worry. There's not much to not understand.

trogdor

You say that

Ben

It's just the experience of it that you're lacking, so until then - enjoy it :P

trogdor

Experience is a big deal though

How will I level up without it?

Sorry couldn't resist stupid joke impulse

Ben

In my house, we do "level up" haha. "Dad lvl 2 achieved"

Kamola the Prince-Maker

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