TRPG General Chat

Rubiksmoose

6:17 PM

@KorvinStarmast yay!

The SE seems to be pretty obsessed with extradimensional storage solutions of late.

Randomorph

@Rubiksmoose Now we're thinking with portals.

Rubiksmoose

@Randomorph Or maybe somebody is just trying to open a fantasy IKEA

Randomorph

@Rubiksmoose I'd go to one of those.

Rubiksmoose

@Randomorph I certainly would as well :)

Randomorph

Random question for chat: what's your favourite dice system and why?

Rubiksmoose

6:27 PM

@Randomorph what do you mean by dice system precisely?

Randomorph

d20 roll over variable target
2d10 roll under attribute
roll (skill)d6 and count >4 as successes
etc etc

TheTinyMan

@Randomorph Ever play Deadlands First Edition?

(Hi, I'm Tiny! :-D )

Randomorph

@TheTinyMan No I have not. (Hello!)

TheTinyMan

@Randomorph So, it uses a target number system, generally picking out of a few target numbers. 5 is easy, 7 is a bit harder, it goes up by 2s up to I think 13.

Rubiksmoose

@TheTinyMan Hi! I have not. why do you ask?

TheTinyMan

6:31 PM

Stats are represented by both a die count and a die face - so I might have...oh man it's been a while, I'm making up a stat name here... 3d10 in Agility

But you mostly ignore the die count in your stat, because you also have skill ranks, which determine the die count in your roll

Rubiksmoose

@TheTinyMan so is that something you role each time that ability is used?

TheTinyMan

so say, I have 0 ranks in Gunslingin', but 5 ranks in Melee (knife fightin')

SPavel

Never said anything derogatory about Jedi other than every single one is, obviously, an enemy of the Republic. Never said “execute order 66.” Made up by Yoda. I have a wonderful relationship with Anakin, a Jedi. Probably should record future meetings - unfortunately, no trust!

Tweeted by RealTrumpatine on January 12, 2018 at 9:50 PM

TheTinyMan

so if I roll my Melee (Knife Fightin'), I roll 5d10

NautArch

@SPavel SAD

TheTinyMan

6:32 PM

If I roll a straight Agility test, maybe I'm playing Five Finger Fillet or something, I roll 3d10

And if I roll an untrained Gunslingin', I roll 3d10 - 7

except that the die results are not added together

it uses the highest value on an individual die

Randomorph

@TheTinyMan how would you hit a target like 13 then?

TheTinyMan

so if my Melee (Knife Fightin') roll turns up 3, 5, 5, 8, 6, then I rolled an 8

An excellent question! If I ever roll a max value, then I roll that die again and add the results.

So if I roll a 3, 5. 10 on my Gunslingin', I roll again, so maybe I get a 7

so that gives me a Gunslingin' result of 17-7=10

Rubiksmoose

@Randomorph I have only ever played using the d20 system though I hope to change that soon. From things I listen to I know how other systems work, but never in practice.

Randomorph

@TheTinyMan interesting

TheTinyMan

IIRC for some die counts, a d4 in an attribute can be (slightly) statistically better than a d6 in it

it's a weird system but I love it xD

Rubiksmoose

6:36 PM

wow sounds really interesting

Randomorph

@Rubiksmoose Played primarily with d20 roll over variable target (D&D and co) and d100 roll under attribute (DH2), along with d20 roll under attribute (paranoia). Seen a few other dice systems and understand the principles, but never used it

TheTinyMan

This system also has certain mages playing poker to cast spells. xD

against a target hand value

Randomorph

Sounds interesting but a bit fiddly to manage at the table

TheTinyMan

It goes a lot quicker than it sounds like it would

I spend a lot less time with the dice-rolling in that than I do in D&D...not that the versions of D&D that I've played are the best competition in terms of not getting bogged down by numbers.

Randomorph

I've been doing some designing for a homebrew TTRPG, and one of the things I've been trying to figure out is die systems. On one hand you want to have widely available dice, and not require too many exotic ones. On the other hand you need to consider how it feels at the table, and how fast it goes.

I think I've settled on 2d10 + Bonus, Roll over Target

TheTinyMan

6:41 PM

@Randomorph Yeah, I think that "Roll over Target" should be a lock - that's just what everyone is used to, and rolling under the target doesn't change the experience much besides being an extra thing to remember.

The question becomes, how strong an effect do you want luck to have in your game?

Randomorph

Rolling under vs rolling over are mathematically the same. One is simple addition and more common, the other uses subtraction (which people struggle with more) and is less common

And reducing the impact of a luck (a bit) was part of the choice of 2d10.

TheTinyMan

@Randomorph Precisely, the experience - I should have said 'mechanics' - isn't really any different.

@Randomorph I think that the bonus calculation is the biggest factor in speed and 'feel.' 2d10 sounds good to me, depending on the value range of the bonuses.

Randomorph

d20 is flat probability, and small numbers are dwarfed by the dice odds. Crits happen a lot (10% total)
2d10 has a semi-bell curve form, and makes smaller modifiers more meaningful. Crits happen rarely (2% of total)
3d6 is a bell curve but has weirder math, and makes small modifiers extremely meaningful, Crits almost never happen (<1%)

I was aiming for somewhere around +-10 for the bonuses

Bonuses would be largely intrinsic to the character

TheTinyMan

@Randomorph 3d6 has weirder math? What do you mean?

Randomorph

Circumstance would modify the die rolls: Eg you would roll 3d10 pick highest or lowest two

3d6 doesn't convert neatly from a d20 way of thinking, that's all @TheTinyMan

You also have to be REALLY careful with bonuses. +5 in 3d6 is very different from d20

TheTinyMan

6:47 PM

@Randomorph Ahh, gotcha. Yeah, I tend to hate a strong random effect so I'd probably favor 3d6...though I haven't played a game based around it before I've definitely contemplated the implications before.

Randomorph

@TheTinyMan yeah that's why I'm leaning on 2d10. It's a nice middle ground, and the math is very easy to work with

TheTinyMan

Of course the problem with small modifiers being more significant is that it becomes harder to model that this guy is just a little better than this other guy at the thing...but any solution to that is still an awkward model.

Yeah. :-)

Randomorph

Yeah d100 with 0-100 stats is best with modelling "Just a bit better" But it also makes a lot bigger numbers to be adding at the table, which is undesirable

TheTinyMan

@Randomorph Clearly, what you need are decimals. ;-)

Or fractions!

Randomorph

That seems like a recipe for disaster

TheTinyMan

6:51 PM

@Randomorph Haha, yeah. xD Sorry, bad joke was bad. :-)

Randomorph

@TheTinyMan I mean, it'd be a good way to punish players

Rubiksmoose

I think if I design a system it will definitely involve imaginary numbers and many constantly changing small modifiers tied loosely to the measurement of the background radiation of the universe.

TheTinyMan

@Randomorph Although actually, if it always comes divisible by 0.5...this sounds like madness but I almost want to experiment with it...

@Rubiksmoose When D&D 3.0 came out, I was literally aghast when I read about attack bonuses and armor class. "Even idiots can play this game now!" my pretentious younger self cried in dismay.

Thankfully, I'm not...that kind of neckbeard these days.

SPavel

@TheTinyMan Idiots could, and did, play earlier editions, they just slowed everyone down even more

TheTinyMan

Now...now I demand double integrals from my systems.

@SPavel Entirely true.

SPavel

6:54 PM

There is no task so difficult that a determined idiot could not insist on doing it

Randomorph

"Solve this differential equation to dodge the attack, you have 30 seconds"

TheTinyMan

@SPavel That should be the title of my autobiography!

@Randomorph Oh, you failed? SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A REALITY HACKER.

Rubiksmoose

@TheTinyMan Finally my system will bring only the truly deserving the number crunching goblin slaying experience that all the plebs have ruined.

inthemanual

It's just been brought to my attention that Shield Master does not require proficiency with shields.

TheTinyMan

@Rubiksmoose And jerks who know how to use Matlab. >.<

inthemanual

6:55 PM

is this an oversight?

Randomorph

@inthemanual rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/87177/…

So you'll just be crappy at being a shield master

inthemanual

Shields count and don't count as armor for various things

NautArch

@inthemanual that is correct

inthemanual

do they count as armor with regards to those penalties?

Randomorph

My understanding is yes, but I don't have a source @inthemanual

Otherwise every Wizard would lug a shield around for the 2 ac

NautArch

6:58 PM

@inthemanual Yes, shields are armor

inthemanual

I wanted to post this as a question, but I couldn't come up with a way that wasn't either two questions, one of which was poor quality, or something that was a "designer reasons" question, which i don't really care about

Rubiksmoose

@Randomorph Pathfinder actually did something kind of like this. Dumbest thing ever. d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sacred-geometry

NautArch

@inthemanual I think it's been asked

if that's what your question was

although this may be more of what you were aiming, but it was marked as a dupe of the prior question :)

@inthemanual What specific build are you trying to make?

inthemanual

player wants a sorcerer with a shield

Randomorph

@inthemanual the easiest way to achieve that is through multiclassing

inthemanual

7:03 PM

@Randomorph he wants to take shield master for it

Randomorph

@inthemanual technically he can, just can't wield a shield and cast spells without proficiency

The only way to get that (RAW) is via multiclassing, or the Moderately Armoured feat

Note that that feat requires Light Armour proficiency

Rubiksmoose

@Randomorph the feat isn't a bad investment IMO

NautArch

but as randomorph said, it requires 2 feats

Randomorph

@Rubiksmoose it is if you don't have Lightly Armoured AND you Want to take Shield Master as a feat

That's 3 feats

Like I said, easiest path is a level of Fighter or other class that gives Medium Armour + Shields

Rubiksmoose

@Randomorph oops yeah that is absolutely too much

Randomorph

7:07 PM

Then the Sorcerer can also wear Half Plate and a big shield

2 Levels of Fighter also gets them Action Surge, which is really good on spellcasters

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch yup I jumped in without reading the full backstory

@Randomorph 1 level of cleric will do it too

Randomorph

@Rubiksmoose yes that also has the advantage of keeping spellcasting progression

NautArch

Could also go Paladin dip and continue with CHarisma casting

Randomorph

Level 2 Paladin would get a Fighting style and Smite

So another +1 AC

NautArch

I've read that the sorcadin is a nice build

but that's neither here nor there for inthemanual

Yuuki

7:12 PM

I'd like a discussion about loot distribution. As a player, I always feel it's kinda weird for dungeons to have loot that fits a certain player's playstyle. But at the same time, I feel like it's somewhat antagonistic for a DM to distribute loot that doesn't match up with a player's playstyle. Thoughts?

Randomorph

It's pretty synergistic, but you get the most out of it when you get level 6 Paladin for those glorious save bonunses

@Yuuki I'm a big custom homebrew magic item guy. I like giving players well tailored rewards, as well as some minor random loot

Yuuki

@Randomorph I just had an idea for a magic item but I also feel like it enforces a specific playstyle.

Randomorph

@Yuuki well that's up to your players whether they use it or not

NautArch

@Yuuki I think there's a balance there. Randomize utliitarian loot, but every once in awhile drop in PC-specific loot .

But dropping big loot that no one can use because you just rolled on a tale is annoying (taken from my current experiences)

Randomorph

@NautArch agreed

Yuuki

7:16 PM

> Energetic scabbard - When a weapon is sheathed in this scabbard, a charge may be consumed to grant the weapon additional 1d6 damage of a chosen energy type on its next attack.

NautArch

@Randomorph upon further reflection, Paladin 1 isn't a great dip. YOu get a lot more out of FIghter 1.

Mike Q

@Yuuki I'd say, give players what they need, even if it's not what they wanted.

Yuuki

@NautArch I feel like PC-specific loot (like someone who's trying to go for a samurai theme and the aforementioned scabbard) should be the reward for a minor quest rather than random dungeon loot.

NautArch

@Randomorph even worse for whenyou want to buy/sell magic items and the DM values selling vastly different than buying

Randomorph

Honestly in my next campaign, I'll likely use a "Rune Word" style system. Magic items are basically items slotted with enchanted runes. Those runes can be removed (carefully with an Arcana check), and slotted into another item (with another check). Then you can keep that family greatsword and just make it wonderful, instead of "Oh look, a new shiny Trident with an awesome effect.. Except I hate Tridents"

NautArch

7:21 PM

@Randomorph that...is genius

Randomorph

@NautArch thank Diablo 2 then

TheTinyMan

@Randomorph I love upgradable items.

Yuuki

@Randomorph How many SoJs do I need?

TheTinyMan

Although when I saw "Rune Word" I was thinking of a spell system...something like what Magicka has. xD Love that too!

Mike Q

@Yuuki Sure, if it's a very specific item, then you may want to place it in a location where it would make sense. "Oh look, the large-sized ogres just happened to have a medium-sized katana for some reason. How convenient."

SPavel

7:22 PM

@Randomorph I think the Magic Item Compendium in 3.5 introduced a similar system

Mike Q

@Randomorph What if they fail the second check? Do they permanently lose the rune?

SPavel

Or maybe it was the Artificer that could do that

Randomorph

@MikeQ that can make sense. Oh look the large size ogre is picking the dead adventurer out of his teeth with a katana

SPavel

Honestly, being able to schlop the magic from one weapon into another seems like something a blacksmith should be able to do

Yuuki

@MikeQ Have you tried reading ~~Exploding~~ Arcane Runes?

Randomorph

7:25 PM

@MikeQ My thoughts were, failing the first check causes a Force explosion with respect to the power of the rune, and may or may not destroy the rune. Failing the second check would mean you've failed to bind the rune to the item. I'm not sure how to resolve the "Can I keep trying?" question yet, other than making failure have dangerous consequences.. Maybe wild magic surges.

NautArch

@Randomorph Wild magic surges are a great idea.

no harm to the rune, but fun times for everyone around

doy ou have ti find someone skilled in rune placement? Or can the PC do it?

Yuuki

@Randomorph Speaking as a player, I would be extremely annoyed/aggravated if the super-rare rune I got was destroyed because I failed a check.

Mike Q

@Randomorph I agree with @Yuuki, and I think I would never risk that.

Yuuki

I wouldn't mind blowing up but I would be very aggrieved if I lost the rune.

Randomorph

@NautArch The idea was to make it an Arcana check (D&D5e)

NautArch

7:27 PM

@Randomorph So it's general common knowledge to do it.

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki found the true arcanist

Randomorph

@Yuuki More specifically, that only applies if the want to forcibly remove it from a bound item.

@NautArch I wouldn't say common knowledge. Probably an Arcana check that scales with the rune's rarity.

Yuuki

I'd consider making it a minor sidequest rather than a skill check. Like to use/slot the Beast-slaying Rune, you must first properly attune to it by killing X animals with it on your person or performing some kind of ritual with pelts/skins/hides as reagents.

Randomorph

Also I'd probably handle failure with a "failure chart" where not every outcome is you lost the rune

Mike Q

@Randomorph Then even more so, because magic weapons tend to be very rare in 5E. Permanently losing the benefit seems like an unfair consequence for failing a check.

SPavel

7:28 PM

"killing X animals" sounds tediously Warcrafty

Randomorph

@SPavel Agreed.

Yuuki

@SPavel Rolling an Arcana check for every rune sounds equally if not more boring, imo.

SPavel

How common are the runes?

Randomorph

@Yuuki as opposed to Adding 25 gp gold value every day? I'll take the Runes

SPavel

Don't you have like 1-3 magic items as a dude?

Randomorph

7:29 PM

@SPavel They'd be similar to current magic items. Potentially could make them.

Mike Q

@Randomorph As an alternative, what if failing the check caused the rune to be "misaligned" or something. And it gets a random effect instead of the intended one. Or, the item still gets the intended effect, but also gains a minor curse.

SPavel

I would not make it be skill based at all

Randomorph

@MikeQ That's the idea of trying to insert it and failing. The rune doesn't stick, and there's a wild magic surge

NautArch

@MikeQ That would be more interesting. Wild Magic on use. (guess what, hoss? You didn't align it)

Randomorph

@SPavel What would you base it off of, then?

SPavel

7:31 PM

@Randomorph That depends on what you are trying to accomplish by inserting a barrier between "get mejick box" and "use mejick box"

NautArch

@inthemanual Loot thread just bumped you. Were you okay with the ideas on how to get shields with a sorcerer?

Yuuki

~~Chevron~~ Rune 1, aligned and locked.

Randomorph

@SPavel Let me clarify. The idea would be normally loot is already magical. But you have the option to unsocket it, to socket another item. It's usually not required unless you happen to find a bare rune.

SPavel

@Yuuki I could go for a stargate sword, every time you draw it it opens a portal to a new world, and sometimes the new world is a black hole and everyone dies

Mike Q

@Randomorph So the player has to succeed two Arcana checks, otherwise their magic item is permanently de-magicked? Seems like it's not worth the risk, unless you make the runes slightly more common, or provide some semi-reliable way of obtaining new ones.

SPavel

7:32 PM

@Randomorph I understand that. But you are inserting a barrier between "PC finds a bit of magic" and "PC adds that bit of magic to their primary weapon."

What is the purpose of this barrier? What does it accomplish? Why do you need it?

Mike Q

@SPavel I suppose it would help if they find a magic weapon, but nobody is proficient with it?

Randomorph

@MikeQ No. The first check has a chance to demagic it if you fail. Probably a pretty low one. The real consequence here is a surge of magical force which just hurts you and everything nearby. The second check has NO chance of demagicing. It just might fail to attune to the new item and release a wild magic surge.

Mike Q

@Randomorph Right, but if you fail the second check, where does the rune go?

SPavel

@MikeQ That logic only works if there is an immutable fact that magic weapons in which the party are not proficient might drop from enemies.

Why must that be true?

Randomorph

@SPavel Right now the existing barrier is: Oh wait no you can't do that. I'm removing barriers, not adding new ones. Magic is frequently seen as something that requires skill to wield. Hence the check.

@MikeQ Nowhere? it just makes the air taste purple for a second, then it's still there. You can keep trying.

SPavel

7:35 PM

If you simply say "the magic sword you found has a sticker for +1 flaming, would you like to peel it off and stick it onto your batteaxe" what's wrong with that?

Randomorph

@SPavel Nothing. It's my choice to make it skill based, due to my headcannon for how magic works. It's complicated and requires some knowledge to do things.

Yuuki

@Randomorph Even if it's a really small chance, I will tell you right now that, as a player, it will feel really bad when/if it does happen.

SPavel

@Randomorph You are the DM here, yes?

Yuuki

And not in a "welp, I screwed up" sort of bad, more like "that's a bit unfair, this setting/mechanic kinda sucks" sort of bad.

Randomorph

@Yuuki That's fair. It's something I'll be considering how it works. Keep in mind again, this is only if you try and tear it out of an item. Not trying to put it into one. It's a risk vs reward thing.

@SPavel In this context, with how I'm discussing the system, yes.

SPavel

7:38 PM

@Randomorph How would you feel if your DM in another game said to you: your guy finds some treasure that he aaaaaalmost wants but I decided to make it totally useless to him unless he happens to have this skill and passes a check.

Yuuki

@Randomorph There's nothing wrong with headcanon and if you're the DM, you make the setting. But something like this is more appropriate for a book. You create tension in the risk but ultimately you're the sole author of the narrative. You control how the tension is resolved.

SPavel

@Yuuki Well put.

This is a roll where one of the outcomes is not interesting.

Randomorph

@SPavel I'd pass it off to the Mage in the group, or hire a Mage to do it. Limitations aren't inherently bad.

@SPavel Interesting is highly subjective.

Yuuki

Books and TRPGs have a lot of cross-over when it comes to constructing narratives, but some things work better in other mediums (media?).

SPavel

@Randomorph I assert that "nothing happens" is objectively uninteresting.

Randomorph

7:40 PM

@SPavel Sure. I don't believe I stated that as an outcome though. So the objectivity of that statement isn't really relevant.

SPavel

@Randomorph I'm trying to unpack what you actually want from this barrier, and marry it to a mechanical solution.

Randomorph

@Yuuki That's like saying "Characters shouldn't die" or "Why bother rolling skill checks if there's any chance for failure". I don't think I agree with the premise.

Yuuki

As someone who plays a lot of video games, and RPGs in particular, I'll tell you that if I got my hands on a Super Awesome Rune of Infinite Power but I risk losing if I actually use it, I'd probably decide to trade it in for something weaker but more reliable even if the chance is small.

Randomorph

@SPavel Desire: Risk vs Reward system that allows players more customization of magic items.

SPavel

@Randomorph Your response earlier (ask/hire a mage) seems to suggest that the risk is negligible.

Yuuki

7:42 PM

Although that depends on whether Super Awesome Rune of Infinite Power is farmable or not.

Randomorph

@Yuuki If you got your hands on the Rune itself, there is no risk to using it. If you got your hands on The Blade of Ultimate Power which has the rune socketed in, and you decide you want to snub the blade and would rather have an axe, and decide to effectively destroy the magic item to get to the rune, that's a Risk vs Reward situation.

Yuuki

If not, yeah I'll trade it in for a Rune of Not Quite As Infinite. If it is farmable, I'd more willing to risk using the rune.

SPavel

To me, a risk/reward system should promote a reward that I do not already have. If I already have the Stick of Fire, converting it to a Stick and a Rune of Fire does not feel, to me, like getting something new.

Now, if I were able to mash my Sword of Spikes and Stick of Fire together into a Sword of Spiky Fire that is more than just the sum of its parts, that's a reward.

Rubiksmoose

0

Q: Multiple characters working on the same downtime activity?

In multiple official materials (Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Xanathar's Guide to Everything), characters are given the option to pursue downtime activites. The DMG and Xanathar's Guide both have multiple activities that allow varying degrees of success (such as Sowing Rumors, Sellin...

Randomorph

@SPavel The risk is mitigatable and would depend on the rarity/power of the rune. Just because Thrognar can't do it safely, doesn't mean Elzitar will risk destroying it.

Yuuki

7:45 PM

Maybe I'm approaching it from a weird perspective but looking at this from a viewpoint of a game designer, I want players to use the loot I create for them. Any risk mechanic needs to minimize possible outcomes where the player chooses to not use the loot.

Randomorph

@SPavel And that's the idea. Oooh I want to add the firey trait to my weapon, so I need to extract the rune to plug it in.

SPavel

@Yuuki There are lots of examples of loot that is risky to use but still sees play, it's just that this concept doesn't do that well either.

Rubiksmoose

@Rubiksmoose I think this question might benefit from being put on hold and refined. I'm not really sure what they want as an answer and I think it would be better if they focused on the actual specific issues they are looking to address with the rules.

SPavel

@Randomorph No, no. That's just the sum of the parts.

Randomorph

@Yuuki Again, you guys saw the words "Might lose it" and have blown it out of proportion.

SPavel

7:45 PM

Sum of the parts is boring.

@Randomorph "Might lose it" doesn't matter to me at all.

Randomorph

@SPavel And that's your subjective opinion. To some people adding new bits to an existing thing is fun.

TheTinyMan

I think it sounds like a decent mechanic. If I see an item that I just do not want to lose, then I won't take the risk. If I find something that's expendable, not usable (and the connotations in that possibility are a different conversation), or would be way cooler combined with this other thing, I'll take the risk.

Randomorph

@TheTinyMan That's where I was approaching it from, yes.

TheTinyMan

It will feel really bad if I take a gamble that I shouldn't have, I will grant you that. But crunch-heavy games are filled with those situations, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Randomorph

I mean, my players (and my GM) already love my existing magic item crafting system. I just wanted a way to add in the ability to modify or take the bits of an existing magic item. My current system needs a bit more work on the part of the DM to think of stuff for crafting.

Mike Q

7:49 PM

I guess whether or not players would see this as worthwhile will depend on 1. how much the player relies on their magic item and 2. the likelihood of finding magic items in general.

Randomorph

@MikeQ I'd just dole out items how I already have, but now if they don't want it to be an Axe, they can change it.

Basically I keep them fairly rare until around 5th level, then I let them find more and more stuff as they progress.

SPavel

@Randomorph But why not just give them an item they can use

Randomorph

@SPavel Can a fighter not use an Axe as effectively as a Sword? No, that's just being picky. If they want to be picky, then they can risk it.

Mike Q

Ok, I think I get it. You give them an item they won't necessarily want, which tempts them to use the rune swapping system, which adds dramatic tension?

SPavel

I think there are roots of a good idea here - if one takes the goal of adventuring to be procuring sweet loot, then this could be an amazing vector for making non-combat skills matter (since they will be directly used to procure loot, just like the combat skills that murderized that loot's earlier owners)

TheTinyMan

7:54 PM

@SPavel Or maybe the item was meant for the fighter but the rogue wants it instead...or the fighter uses it for a level and then decides he doesn't want it any more but now the wizard does...

Randomorph

@MikeQ Sure. If they want to use it as is, nothing stops them. If I give them a raw rune, no risk in putting it in an item (except some wild magic hijinks)

SPavel

But adding layers of "I decided to give you an item you don't want, but also add a system that might make it into something you do want" feels arbitrary

Randomorph

@TheTinyMan Good points Tiny!

SPavel

@TheTinyMan In my experience everyone has their own magic items that they like, but then I've never been the kind of DM that has a stranglehold on what PCs are allowed to use

And neither were the people I've played with

Randomorph

@SPavel Because it is. I personally don't want players to be able to play connect four with Runes. I personally want them to have to risk or find someone who will to modify rare and powerful items.

TheTinyMan

7:56 PM

@SPavel I just came into this room but are we assuming that @Randomorph is or did he say that at some point? O.o It doesn't sound like he is.

But the mage is a lot less likely to use that Plate Mail of Flying than the fighter is.

SPavel

@TheTinyMan I'm speaking directly to your statement here.

Mike Q

I'm starting to understand the justification here. When a player gets a magic item A but wanted magic item B, they can either 1. trade and pay the extra cost, or 2. make a gamble with a smaller monetary cost.

SPavel

The scenario you described (the rogue is interested in the magic on the fighter's weapon once the fighter no longer wants it) does not come to pass, in my experience.

I am allowing for the fact that other people may have had different experiences, and theorizing why they may have do so, had they done so.

Randomorph

@MikeQ Yep, that's the idea. They still have the item (or a loose rune). Socketing is relatively safe. Unsocketing is the risky part.

Mike Q

@Randomorph Is a rune a physical object?

Randomorph

7:58 PM

@MikeQ Yes. Either a gemstone or carved stone with runic symbols enchanted on it

Mike Q

Are they only compatible with special weapons that have special rune slots? Or can they be attached to any item?

TheTinyMan

@SPavel I guess that's possible, but I've definitely seen cases where a character wants an effect but he wants the effect that he's already getting out of that equipment slot more, or the slot it comes in has something in it with an emotional attachment, or something like that.

And then we will routinely discard items with weaker enchantments than what we have - suddenly that magic retains value. Even more if you can somehow de-craft the rune.

Yuuki

@Randomorph I'm like 60-70% the average player will react the same way when faced with this system.

Randomorph

@MikeQ I'd say any item, but the item in question might need to have a small modification to add it. Maybe with Blacksmith's Tools or similar

Yuuki

Am I overreacting? It's possible/probable, but if I'm overreacting I can almost guarantee that most players will also overreact.

TheTinyMan

8:02 PM

@Yuuki YMMV, of course. What flies at one table doesn't fly at another. I personally love having building blocks. xD

Randomorph

@Yuuki That may be the case. That's what playtesting is for. Also this is me discussing what I wanted. Nothing says anyone else has to use the idea that way.

@TheTinyMan Yep. Not sure on the recycling runes part. But maybe using them to make a more powerful version would be a good concept. Provided you have a mage or artificer who can do so.

TheTinyMan

@Randomorph Or a magic box. :-P

Yuuki

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has given me thoughts on customizable weapons.

TheTinyMan

@Yuuki I haven't played that, what are these thoughts? :o

Yuuki

@TheTinyMan So each character can wield sentient weapons called Blades. There's a bunch of lore and flavor and whatnot but the salient point is that these Blades have affinities. As you fulfill affinities, their special attributes get stronger.

Mike Q

8:08 PM

@Randomorph Actually, the more I think about this, the more I like it. I wonder if I could come up with some analogue for my Pathfinder game...

Yuuki

While some of these affinities are your bargain basement "kill X mobs", some others involve completing side quests or going to interesting out-of-the-way locations.

TheTinyMan

@Yuuki That's pretty cool. Is there any sort of control over what effects are available to quest for on each Blade?

Randomorph

@MikeQ Just rip it directly. Instead of Arcana checks, use.. Spellcraft? Or a similar skill.

Yuuki

@TheTinyMan There are common RNG Blades that pretty much have randomized effects. But there are unique themed Rare Blades that have specific effects and unique affinities.

Like there's one Blade whose theme is that of a high-society aristocrat. Their affinities involve collecting a bunch of money or drinking various specific teas.

Mike Q

@Randomorph Well in Pathfinder, magic items can have multiple effects, each with a quantifiable magic unit. Except you can't selectively remove magical effects; so if you buy/make a magic item, then later realize you want a different effect, you have to buy/make a completely new one. As a result, the player's resources have gone to waste.

Yuuki

8:11 PM

And among their effects is a special attack that causes enemies to drop additional money.

And gathering money while in combat raises their attack power temporarily.

And completing their affinities increases the amount of money dropped and increases the attack power boost from collecting money in combat.

Randomorph

@MikeQ Make each effect a single rune.

TheTinyMan

@Yuuki That is interesting. :-)

Yuuki

Incidentally, this system allows you to pick up a Rare Blade at the beginning of the game and keep it with you until the end as long as you make sure to complete affinities to grow their power.

NautArch

interesting question @Rubiksmoose. We generally allow 2 medium riders, but that's just how we do it at the table so not making a full answer on that :)

SPavel

Or demand progressively more difficult Balance checks

Yuuki

8:18 PM

> Player: "This homebrew monster seems pretty overpowered."
> DM: "I rolled a nat 20 against the Balance check. That means it's balanced."

SPavel

@Yuuki That explains a lot about some D&D design choices

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Thanks! It was something that came up in party discussion and I just could not find anything about it in the rules. It may in fact be something we will have to deal with sometime soon. But yeah I thought it was an intriguing rule gap as well.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose As I said, we generally allow 2 medium without an issue. We've had a harder time on wielding weapons that require 2 hands while riding.

SPavel

@NautArch Solution - one rider wields the second rider, who is then free to wield a two-handed weapon

NautArch

@SPavel clearly. Although the 2nd rider needs to be one size or smaller.

Randomorph

8:27 PM

@SPavel Solution, a small player rides a medium player, who is riding the Horse.

SPavel

@Randomorph If your players are riding one another at the table, you need to ask them to stop

@NautArch not if you take Monkey Grip

NautArch

What if the horse is riding the player?

Yuuki

@NautArch Then the game is rated NC-17.

SPavel

@NautArch That's a federal crime

Yuuki

Alternately, the player is officially renamed to "Catherine the Great".

SPavel

8:32 PM

@Yuuki That was just a rumour (if anyone did that, it was one of the Byzantine Empresses who was described to "have opened three gates to the servants of Cupid, and lamented that she was not gifted with a fourth")

Yuuki

@SPavel Yeah, I know. It's pretty common for disparaging sexual rumors to be circulated about powerful female rulers.

SPavel

@Yuuki Well except Queen Elizabeth

Yuuki

@SPavel Eh, there was a rumor about her and the Duke of... York?

SPavel

@Yuuki But the Duke of York was not a horse

mxyzplk

Ok, that’s probably enough royals sex talk... I know it’s friday and we’re all feeling frisky...

Yuuki

8:35 PM

@SPavel I dunno, have you seen a picture?

SPavel

@mxyzplk Good call, let's move on to the nobility

GreySage

@mxyzplk I'm rather more excited, we're playing RollForShoes tomorrow

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch read my mind on that FOM question btw

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose and yet the other answer has the vote :) It is a bit more complete, though.

Going down the rabbit hole of potential reactions by class wasn't something I was willing to do.

mxyzplk

I’m playing Unknown Armies this weekend, we’re doing a campaign with the new edition

NautArch

8:49 PM

@mxyzplk Unknown Armies is unknown to me

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Oh I actually meant about YOUR question

GreySage

3

Q: Can you use Freedom of Movement with the Rogue Skirmisher Reaction?

Freedom of Movement states: The target can also spend 5 feet of movement to automatically escape from nonmagical restraints, such as manacles or a creature that has it grappled The Rogue Scout can, through their Skirmisher Reaction: You can move up to half your speed as a reaction when ...

dnd-5e spells rogue

4 answers in 2 minutes, 2 say yes, 2 say no. Awesome

Rubiksmoose

^that one lol

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose oh, haha! Ultimately, it's a question of Speed vs Movement and if there's a difference.

SPavel

@NautArch Does a increase to movement speed help with bowel movements

Or make your watch movement tick fast? :P

GreySage

8:57 PM

@NautArch There is a difference between speed and movement, there isn't a difference between movement and movement

Speed is how much movement you get

NautArch

@GreySage I think that's the logic i'm looking for in an answer.

@GreySage But I think the harder line is Do you HAVE to use Half your Speed in movement, or can you use less to allow the 5' of movement to break the grapple?

GreySage

@NautArch The ability says "You can move up to half your speed", so you clearly don't HAVE to use it all in movement, although that doesn't say anything about using it in other ways.

For example you could move up to 1/4 of your speed if that was where you wanted to go

mxyzplk

@NautArch it’s a postmodern occult

RPG by stoles/tynes

Stolze

That is

NautArch

@GreySage Right, I guess the crux is whether or not "using" 5' via FoM counts as actually moving for SKirmisher. I'm heavily leaning towards yes, because Rules and Fun.

@mxyzplk reading about it now...looks really interesting. First time playing?

Weird. One of my computers at work restarts when I shut it down.

GreySage

9:19 PM

@NautArch It has achieved sentience! Quick, unplug it before it takes over the world!

SPavel

@GreySage No you fool! If you help it come about it will reward you!

NautArch

@GreySage I knew I should have bought instead of building it myself!

SPavel

If you try to stop it, it will torture you for all eternity in simulations

Yuuki

9:37 PM

My amazing friend is going to run this game.

Tweeted by fartpowder on January 26, 2018 at 5:20 PM

NautArch

@Yuuki It's a horror story.

GreySage

9:50 PM

It seems Freedom of Movement is much more popular than Mounted Combat.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch phew after much pondering I have thrown my answer into the ring

nitsua60

10:15 PM

@inthemanual rpg.stackexchange.com/a/78441/23970 does a pretty good job of drawing some outlines around the whole shield=armor vs. shield!=armor thing.

I've got to say that I think a canonical 5e "when is a shield armor and when is it not?" that has an answer listing out all the places that it matters would probably be good. Probably be best if it were a self-answered one, so it's not "please find me all the rules" but it's "hey, this causes problems for a lot of people, here's the definitive guide to it."

SPavel

Ah, the stacking bonus problem

BESW

@Yuuki I don't see how this is anything but an improvement.

@doppelgreener Sounds good to me! I was gonna run one of those easy one-shots I mentioned to Eimyr, otherwise.

Tonka uses his big ol' sniffer to search for clues when the doggos' path is suddenly blocked by a ransacked wagon. But Zoey doesn't like what he smells...

Tweeted by dndoggos on January 26, 2018 at 4:08 PM

The Paraguaian hairy dwarf porcupine

Tweeted by Strange_Animals on January 26, 2018 at 1:45 PM

GreySage

10:49 PM

@BESW That looks unbelievably cute, and shouldn't be posted by someone with a horrible bloodsucking monster as their avatar (the spider).

BESW

But the spider is wearing a dewdrop as a hat!

GreySage

@BESW So a prepared bloodsucking monster is less bad?

BESW

Jumping spiders don't suck blood, anyway.

Shalvenay

11:13 PM

sends the cuddledrider over to snuggle @GreySage and make him feel better

doppelgreener

11:34 PM

@BESW yay! could we go with that and talk about amaterasu?

BESW

@doppelgreener Sure.

Axoren

Could we get another reopen vote for this question: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/q/114247/14873
The OP resolved the reason for the hold.

BESW

@Axoren Voted.

Also, you may find this useful:

20

Q: What to do when an edit guesses the system being used rather than waiting for the querent to clarify?

When the question does not specify a system, but an educated guess can be made, other users often edit the tags themselves without waiting for the querent to confirm the system they are interested in. Is this appropriate? If not then is it OK to roll-back the edit and comment? At what point is ...

discussion faq tags questions editing

If, after reading those answers, you'd like to propose an exception, feel free to provide an answer of your own explaining how your exception bypasses the reasons for the existing policy.

Policies aren't set in stone--well-supported arguments for change are listened to, and have in the past been enacted.

Axoren

I feel like the accepted answer to that meta post has some good points. The general case policy for new users being designed to encourage proper use of the system is good and I can't argue against that. It's just the bounce rate is something I suspect to be high in those cases when a question is asked and the question is locked.

I'll mull it over more and potentially post an alternative to meta, but I feel like not allowing system deduction by anyone other than the OP be some unnecessary road bumps.

The counterargument to that is rampaging editors claiming all untagged posts are 5e or pathfinder when they're fate.

BESW

Yes, well. It also serves as a vetting process: the Stack isn't particularly interested in retaining users who think it's too much to be expected to tag their questions properly.

4

Shalvenay

11:49 PM

@BESW yeah -- if they think the whole world is 5e or PF, they're going to be in for a rude surprise on this Stack sooner or later

BESW

Also, I will always remember the time we had a tagging edit war over whether a question was about 3.5 or 4e... and it turned out the querent was using a custom homebrew of both.

Axoren

I think this might be something a feature request could solve.

Skyler

howdy folks

Axoren

"You didn't select a system tag. Please do."

That way, the road bump is in the submission, not after it.

Shalvenay

hey there @Skyler, how're things going?

doppelgreener

11:50 PM

@Axoren You might be interested in these two metas as well:

30

Q: Can our tag-prompt nudge toward including system?

We get questions every day that need to be put on hold while we wait for a new querent to specify what game/edition they're playing. As of this writing I've seen three so far today--they get quickly closed, get a comment asking about system/edition, and reopened if OP specifies. Currently when a...

discussion feature-request questions

2

Q: Is there a way to decrease the amount of questions submitted without a system tag?

Quite often we get questions on here with no system listed. Often they are by new users. This seems like a fault with the workflow of the site and something that should be able to be corrected. And, moreover, I think it should be corrected. Having all these questions is a bad experience for new ...

discussion tags questions new-users

Axoren

My intuition is that once a new user submits a question, they believe that they've done everything they're supposed to.

doppelgreener

the first spawned the second, like, "hey, that idea from yesterday was pretty good, are there other things we can do?"

Skyler

pretty good, just was playing around in python a bit and i did the histogram for the 4d6 keep 3 roll

Axoren

And that the system should guide them to post properly in the first place, rather than expecting them to learn policy in hindsight

Skyler

in case any of you are curious, this is with 1 million rolls:
3:0.0783%
4:0.308%
5:0.7706%
6:1.606%
7:2.9136%
8:4.7748%
9:7.0518%
10:9.4308%
11:11.459%
12:12.8867%
13:13.2486%
14:12.2866%
15:10.1027%
16:7.2659%
17:4.1988%
18:1.6178%

doppelgreener

11:51 PM

@Axoren I agree with that.

Axoren

@Skyler You might be interested in AnyDice to confirm your calculations

anydice.com

It will do that sort of probability table as well as some charts, so that you can test use cases with your code.

Especially when it comes to programs using a pseudo-RNG, it's good to check if there's a major bias in it.

Skyler

any idea what the equivalent of keep is with anydice

i.e.: discard lowest value

doppelgreener

one thing anydice does is not roll dice at all; i think the implementation it uses would be called a combinatoric implementation. if it sees you want to roll 2d6, it records all possible results of that set: [1,1], [1,2], [1,3] ... [1,6] and so on up to [6,6]. then it may operate further on that result set.

Axoren

I have a script for keep, actually

One second

doppelgreener

then the result it provides is just an evaluation of the frequency of results in the final result set

Skyler

11:58 PM

Yea, there is a combinatorics way to do it but tbh I'd probably be faster with paper and pen then python at that point

Axoren

KEEP: 3
ROLLS: 4
output [highest KEEP of (ROLLS)d6]

Double checking that that works

Yeah, it works