TRPG General Chat

hey there @Rubiksmoose

@Shalvenay howdy

@Rubiksmoose how're things going?

12:10 AM

Pretty good. You?

alright here

12:26 AM

Hmm. I feel like a minor hack to The Irresponsible Hero would make it a lot more fun, but I'm always wary of hacking games before I play them.

Axoren

Their if-statements don't allow for expected behavior. I don't think the language is turing complete

I remember getting wacky errors when trying to do stuff with variables in the if-statemetns

Normally you roll 2d6 (3d6 if it's your specialty) to resolve actions. 2 is a critical failure; 6+ is success; 12+ is outstanding success (gain a hero token). If you roll any 1s, a complication happens (spend a hero token to stop it). There are no wounds for irresponsible heroes; they do stupid things that get other people hurt.

I'm thinking about adding that if you take a complication during an action scene, the complication is that you get complications on 1s and 2s, then on 1s and 2s and 3s, and so on.

And then I'm thinking about changing the roll from 2d6 to either 2d8 or 3d4.

hey there @nitsua60

@Axoren I don't know enough about such things to have any confidence using AnyDice, but often when I find it does stuff completely out of the realm of what I expected it's because I forgot (or more often failed to understand) that it's all combinatoric.

@Shalvenay hiya

12:43 AM

@nitsua60 how're things going?

12:58 AM

Watching an excellent student GM at work. She's got the party on a perfectly frictionless infinite demiplane of ice fighting Wayne Gretsky. Priceless.

OMG she's auctioning off the loot. Up right now: "his Canadian accent."

4

[blink]

@nitsua60 LOL

Someone cast create bonfire and the ice parted to swallow up the ice then re-formed, flawlessly, as a celestial Zamboni zoomed by.

@nitsua60 LOL

hey there @HeebyJeebyMan, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Heeby Jeeby Man

Hello

1:06 AM

I need to start live-tweeting these sessions, under the handle "Remember how D&D's really played" or something.

how're things going?

"Wait, let me finish my description of you falling through an endless pit of eternity."

@nitsua60 This is especially funny to me because Everything I Know About Wayne Gretsky I Learned From Gordon Korman Novels.

You know how you know you're a good GM? Players interject "gah! I love this game!"

@nitsua60 One of the reasons I love GMing with the shared-plotting, ask-the-players style of Fate and Lady Blackbird, is that I get to say that too.

1:11 AM

Yes! "Wow, this is so much more interesting than anything I'd have come up with" is a great GM experience =)

For my last InSpectres game, I had in mind that a rich man was being haunted by the Ghosts of Christmas, Scrooge-style, but he was to stubborn to be turned, so they came back every year.

...instead, my players decided it was a South-East Asian supernatural being that rides the dreams of the guilty until they confess and ask forgiveness.

And they came up with an old high school betrayal that he'd been carrying his entire life.

Giant albino celestial salamanders are wrapping Wayne Gretsky's body in a white, linen shroud.
I should retire as a GM.
I'll never be as good as this 15 year-old.

None of us will.

But since it's unlikely she'll be able to run games for everyone, somebody's gotta pick up the slack.

hey there @Acts7Seven

Acts7Seven

1:26 AM

DM D&D-5e... have you ever thought about this and if so how do you proceed? There’s a certain campaign with a death curse and if you have been previously resurrected you lose 20 hp I believe it is. How do you. Describe that to your characters in an interesting way? I mean it seems so boring to say you’ve lost ##HP. Is one of your arms rotting off or? .... thoughts?

@Shalvenay hey there how’s it going?

@Acts7Seven alright here

@BESW noice

@Acts7Seven Hit points are a high abstraction, so while they can represent gross physical injuries, they also represent fatigue and weariness, demoralization, and anything else which can lead to an inability to continue strenuous, stressful activity.

I'd probably ask the player what the 20 hp loss represents in that particular instance.

@Acts7Seven @inthemanual is running it right now--they might have a good idea. (I'm running it right now and don't have a good idea. Though the descriptions of Valindra and Syndra have some pointers.)

Back in 3.5 I had a campaign where all the PCs went through torture, and I had each of them pick a flaw or trait from UA to represent the lasting effects and how they adapted to it or grew because of the experience.

Acts7Seven

1:38 AM

Thanks all great ideas.

[meeting with proto-saint who's granting a party wish]
P1: We can get a dragon!? We're totally getting a dragon.
GM: Okay. What color?
P2: Purple!
P3 [the kid who's read the MM]: Purple isn't metallic!
GM: Oh, well!
P2 [to P3]: we'll spray paint it gold.

@nitsua60 Just make sure the Pantone color of your dragon is four digits starting with 8.

@BESW ?

The Pantone Color Matching System is a globally recognized set of codes to indicate exact colors with associated instructions for how to mix them consistently from base inks.

If your Pantone color code has four digits and the first one is 8, that means it's the code for a metallic color.

(Related: an ongoing project to match Pantone color codes with human skin tones.)

1:58 AM

do not spray paint your dragons

2

they will get used to it and demand it

Quote of the game: "you made leather. Out of Wayne Gretsky. Don't you dare sell that."

[face/palm]

you made leather out of Wayne Gretsky

sheesh

what did he ever do to you?

Are they selling his Canadian accent, too?

Actually, they just--like ten seconds ago, RL--gave the Canadian accent to the purple dragon.

2:07 AM

Now their pet dragon can loonge aboot the hoose.

oh god not Canadian Dragons

those guys are the worst

XD

@BESW hahaha. does he keep his you know what in a vice? :P

"Yes, everybody but the newcomers has the black-and-red track suits."

(I wonder if the GM in question is familiar with AvE's videos?)

2:26 AM

hey there @MikeQ

and wb @Rubiksmoose

Eofelis was a 'false saber-toothed cat' - a group of cat-like mammals that developed similar features independently, were not part of the true cat lineage & have no living descendants. (Credit: Mauricio Anton)

Tweeted by Extinct_AnimaIs on January 26, 2018 at 6:45 PM

Magician

You stop being mean to those kitties immediately

@Shalvenay Good evening/day/morning @Shalvenay. What's new?

@MikeQ not a whole lot. hoping to get a playtest back up and running soonish, and finish one tonight for that matter :)

@Shalvenay Playtest of what? Is this the one with the orcs?

2:34 AM

@MikeQ the orc playtest is wrapping up -- I have a mino-maze playtest I need to get back going though

3:01 AM

@Shalvenay Is that the same maze that I played in?

@MikeQ yeah

4:58 AM

hey there @SoraTamashii

5:29 AM

@BESW science has gone too far

that we distinguish that

Q: Does paralysis prevent actions that don’t require movement?

8:55 AM

0

Looking at the D&D 5th edition Compendium online, I see: A paralyzed creature is incapacitated (see the condition) and can’t move or speak. And for incapacitation: An incapacitated creature can’t take actions or reactions. Compare this to the 3.5 version, which specifically mentions...

Is it just me or is this question reading a bit "amirite"-ish?

1:19 PM

Tonight we played The Irresponsible Hero. We were agents of MI-5½, working to stop PROJECT HYDRATE, in which a cabal of Hitler clones wanted to use "water bombs" to kick-start global storms in order to "cleanse" the world.

Highlights included Hitler clone ninjas, who cut little holes in their masks so you can see the moustache, and who are very sneaky but if you shout "Heil Hitler" they're all compelled to shout "Heil me!"

....And the crowd of Hitler clones disguised as Charlie Chaplin impersonators.

We saved the world, but Wales sunk into the sea.

because no one cares about poor Wales

according at least to Dr Who

Sandwich

1:52 PM

And nothing of value was lost

I care about Wales, but I'm too far to matter.

(Although I'm only a fifth as far from it as BESW is I'd reckon)

Irresponsible Hero is about making a bad secret agent action movie, in which everything but the heroes is liable to have horrible things happen.

yeah

poor Wales

doppelgreener

2:13 PM

@trogdor the sequel is Eyes & Tweed: Revenge of Wales.

(the mid-credits foreshadowing from the first is inexplicably not present, to the disappointment of more than half of the total twenty-seven avid fans of the series)

2:32 PM

I saw a long news segment about a new theatre production in Tampere. They're re-enacting and dramaticizing the last major engagement of the Finnish civil war... in the very same building where the battle was fought.

Parts of the play will move away from the stage, into the corridors and basements of the theatre.

(Well, not all of the battle was fought in the theatre, it was just one of the many buildings fortified by the Red defenders)

hey there @kviiri and @Rubiksmoose

2:48 PM

@Shalvenay Hi!

@kviiri how're things going?

@Shalvenay Generally fine. I visited my grandparents in the countryside today. They can be a bit of a burden and I had a bit of a hard time tolerating my grandmother who's developed a habit of constantly harassing my sick granddad when he's trying to sleep and my aunt who's caring for them and who is blatantly racist and generally disagreeable.

They had crossword mags so I filled those while smalltalking and whenever I got angry at them and grimaced, I could pretend it was just because of the crosswords x)

heh

How about you?

fine, fine :) finished up with my steppe-orcs

3:04 PM

Steppe-orcs are like orcs but they can stand upright without leaning on to a wall?

@kviiri haha :P it's more of a plains-dwelling orc thing, actually -- kind of a "Mongol cowboy" theme with archery and riding abilities, caravans of wagons and herd-beasts, and the willingness to trade and participate in society to some degree while retaining their nomadic nature

@Shalvenay Sounds cool

@kviiri it is cool. you can look in The Back Room here on stackchat if you want to read the logs of the adventure where I intro'ed Korv to them

@Shalvenay I'll try to remember when I'm not on mobile

3:23 PM

wb @Rubiksmoose

3:55 PM

hey there @MikeQ

Howdy @Shalvenay. I'm working on material for my upcoming Pathfinder campaign. What's up?

4:13 PM

@MikeQ wrapped up with my steppe-orcs, kinda excited to get started on ToA :)

What's ToA?

@MikeQ ah, WotC's latest 5e published campaign, Tomb of Annihilation

4:39 PM

@Shalvenay Have I pointed you toward Wrath of the Khans, approximately 25 or 30 hours of history podcast on the Mongols?

@nitsua60 no you have not

It's breathtaking. His history podcasts are the depth and quality of a book, but he tells you it rather than reading you a text.

He does have a style that some find offputting. I'd recomment poking around to see if you can find a free history podcast of his to listen and see if you think you'd like him.

(The most-recent few are usually freely available; after about a year he puts them on sale to support himself.)

(I think the most recent one's title was Celtic Holocaust, about Rome and Celtic barbarians rubbing up against each other, if you're looking.)

4:56 PM

@nitsua60 I used to listen to that guy's podcast a lot. And you are correct about his style... I kept falling asleep while listening to him ramble for hours at a time. But still, he offers some interesting perspectives and teaches a LOT of information.

yeah, sadly, I don't have a high tolerance for long, rambling podcasts

5:08 PM

Although, I guess they're not all rambly. Some are way better than others.

5:32 PM

@MikeQ Blitzes are good. I keep a stockpile of the multi-part ones for when I've got a vacation or a week with lots of long drives coming up.

Vacation I'll listen an hour each evening as I'm doing dinner or washup or whatnot, maybe an hour while folding some laundry or working on something in the basement workshop. I never listen to them just by themselves--I've got to be doing something else.

6:20 PM

hey there @SoraTamashii

6:53 PM

aeon.co/essays/…

Cool essay on the evolution of "good vs evil" stories. Interesting to see they didn't use to be as common! Especially since it sort of seems like a very basic foundation for a story.

Q: How do I address the need to kill off one member of the party for on going plot?

7:06 PM

[The Torches and Pitchforks Are Out Today}(rpg.stackexchange.com/q/114283/22566)

5

So I have a plot that I want use, that will require a specific member of the team to be "Killed" in a run. The player is very invested in this character, and can take things at the table a little personally sometimes. I am 100% certain that if I can get that player to the end result of the plot...

gm-techniques character-death shadowrun

hey there @KorvinStarmast

The above question has already attracted some decent answers, but also some comments that are just berating the question asker for even considering this idea. @MikeQ's comment is a better example than just a negative response ... but I think that answers are the answer here. I'd like to see a variety because I think this a good place where experience based answers will be great.

@Shalvenay Hullo! Great to see you.

@KorvinStarmast how're things going?

@Shalvenay Doing OK, and you?

alright over here. got any more thoughts on the steppe-orcs btw?

7:10 PM

@KorvinStarmast I suspect that it's the XY problem. Why does the GM "need to kill" a player character? What is that meant to accomplish?

The champions I sparred with need to be the exceptional mambers of the clan. The standard orc needs to be either a scout, or a standard orc, per your use of App B. Is that how you have it set up?

Did you design the beasts of burden around bison/buffalo?

@KorvinStarmast yeah, I used a scout statblock for the orc scouts you saw in the first battle

@KorvinStarmast the statblock for them is the auroch from Volo's, but yes, that was the main source of inspiration for the rautha story-wise

I did not have a good feel for the first town, it's being nearly empty was an odd situation.

Ah, aurocks. Tamed by Orcs. Interesting take on orcs/wargs. :)

Or variation

@KorvinStarmast yeah, that was a bit of a quirk of the original scenario, it being so quiet

@KorvinStarmast yeah, speaking of that -- its kind of a bummer we didn't have more time, otherwise I'd have had the doggo get a bit more action

I am guessing that there was a potential ambush on my way to that town of thieves.

Also, the thieves town had a few people I did not talk to, so I may not have done my recon as well as I could have.

7:14 PM

@KorvinStarmast not really an ambush, but more of a spooky, "you're being watched" sense

Ah, mood setting. Got it.

@KorvinStarmast I think you did OK, although you probably could have recon'ed the bartender more

In the second town or the first?

@KorvinStarmast I find it rather strange how many GMs seem to be in the mood for using their PCs as dramatic plot death fodder but I agree, the answers seem mostly excellent.

@KorvinStarmast second town

7:15 PM

@kviiri the key to me is that they have a plan to keep the player engaged. It needs a plan.

But I tend not to like railroad ....

@Shalvenay Yeah, I was kind of at a loss when I find a second nearly empty town.

I guess my versimilitude had a cognitive mis match

@KorvinStarmast yeah, that scenario was kinda off-the-cuff for the most part (came up with it for a friend of mine, wanted to run it for you mainly to test the orcs)

Also, the prices were bizarre, in terms of high, but I suspected that this was a way for second barkeep to get me to piss off

Also, I think it's smart for GMs to realize in advance their plan might upset someone or hurt the game in other ways. Asking here is already a sign of being considerate to that :)

Unless the player has told the GM something like "I'm sick of this character, please kill them so I can make a new one", or "I want my character to die heroically", then a railroad death will almost always be an unwelcome and unfair move.

@MikeQ Oh, yeah, but because people have gotten so wrapped up in "storytelling" in RPG's, the inclination to build a hard plot, like a screen play, seems to be overwhelming.

7:18 PM

Depending on what the GM wants to accomplish, I'm certain that there is a better solution.

To me, the story is what you tell after you have the adventure... it's the unpredictability of the outcome that makes RPG's so fun.

@KorvinStarmast yes, the second barkeep was overcharging you intentionally

And that doesn't mean it has to be all sandbox all the time.

Shalvenay and I had a little adventure the past few days where it was a little structured and a little sand box. enjoyable.

And I put myself in the position to be killed twice by being not quite clever enough.

In one campaign, we had an encounter where it seemed a self-sacrifice could save the party (not just in the "I'll fend them off and you run!" but literally "The foe will die/disappear if I die"). I almost did it, but decided against it. Later the GM did reveal it could've worked.

@MikeQ I suspect you are right.

@Shalvenay Your role play of him and the girl in the lock shop was pretty good, I got a feel for them and was also left with the "nagging suspicion that something is wrong" too.

7:21 PM

A decision to sacrifice or spare a well-planned character for "okay, this monster has a moderate in-story justification for being gone once my character is gone but I'm totally not sure" is not very fun to make.

@KorvinStarmast yeah, the locksmith girl's kind of a roguish sort ;) was almost planning to have a scene-let where she showed some leg, and the brace of knives and tools strapped to it ;)

@kviiri I have discovered that it is not wise (for my personality type) to get too attached an any RPG character.

@Shalvenay Oh dear, that might have gotten our paladin questing in another direction!

@Shal What would you have awarded for XP for that adventure, if you don't mind my asking?

@KorvinStarmast That might be true, at least for this particular adventure. But I am quite attached to not have to make new characters all the time :)

Also, I guess the sacrifice wouldn't have felt like a sacrifice if the character was just numbers to me.

@kviiri Yeah, I can see that.

@kviiri I have had a lot of friends die IRL. I have accepted death as a part of life. I accept death as part of RPG's. My chars are a heck of a lot more than numbers, but I know I can always make another one.

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, but RPGs aren't, as a general rule with certain exceptions, meant to emulate real life.

7:26 PM

@KorvinStarmast I never really considered XP for that one, but definitely XP for: getting to the rock, for both bandit girls, partial for the thugs/orcs fight, for the win in the ring, and for getting the Orc shaman to and Trauvin to accept the lessons. so, maybe 2k all in all?

@kviiri Of course not, and that isn't what I said. I think it's a matter of maturity, and wisdom.

@Shalvenay Ok, I'll make a note on that sheet for historical purposes, since M'alik Mabir may ride again some day ... who knows? And now he has a story to tell that isn't a sea story. :)

@KorvinStarmast I see. What I meant was, I would probably be quite sore of my character dying if the game was of a genre that didn't regularly see that happening to protagonists

So I'd consider my attachment to character as a function of the genre we're going for, I guess

@Kviiri yeah, it's often very disappointing. heck, I got mad when I lost an assassin to a PK/Griefer in Diablo II a few years ago ... so I stopped playing that CRPG for a few months since I had obviously gotten too close to it.

And also the workload of making a new one, because I'm a pragmatic guy :)

@kviiri In a game/group with high immersion, I can see some losses being more painful than others

7:31 PM

Were BESW here, he'd say something about death usually not being a particularly interesting outcome :)

Maybe it all depends on why we play tabletop games, which varies from person to person. I play tabletop games to escape the pains and frustrations of real life - I'll take demons and eldritch horrors anyday.

@kviiri aye -- part of the reason I tend to use a 'downed" status for representing 0 HP

@MikeQ And game to game, of course.

@Kviiri If there is no risk of failure, there is no success, no sense of accomplishment. I"ve seen that in both training and education.

@MikeQ core point. Why are we playing? well said.

you are still breathing, but you cannot function as a combatant any longer, and you may or may not be unstable

7:32 PM

@KorvinStarmast Failure != death, though.

@kviiri Sometimes it does, and sometimes it does not. Depends on the situation and the game, and heck on the genre.

@KorvinStarmast xD

@KorvinStarmast -- did you kind of get the picture I was going for with the dog btw?

For someone who plays tabletop as stress relief: If the game becomes more unpleasant than real-world stresses, then it's no longer an escape, and there's little reason to stay invested.

@Shalvenay Yes, I did, she was training and playing with her wolf/warg ... but there may be a point I missed.

@MikeQ Table environment seems to be what you are talking about. Table norms?

And if every failure's a (potential) death it starts to feel a bit cheap. There's no real incentive to invest a lot into a character if one's already lost three in the last five sessions (I've actually been a guest at a table where this was the norm)

7:35 PM

@Shalvenay Maybe she was training it to be a war dog?

@kviiri Ouch. That's back to OD&D lethality ...

Death is scarier when it keeps knocking on the door but enters only hesitantly :)

That can sour someone on the game ....

@Kviiri Agreed. the tension is the thing.

@KorvinStarmast yeah, her dog's basically companion/herding-dog until she sics them on someone, then just "snaps over" into a wardog is the idea

Q: Does stabilizing a character in combat provoke an attack of opportunity if you're the only conscious character left?

0

Let's say there are 2 characters vs a monster. 1 character is unconscious. If the 2nd character decides to stabilize the first then are they subject to an attack of opportunity? Or are attacks against them at Advantage? Note, I've read this Does stabilizing a character in combat provoke an at...

dnd-5e hit-points

as to how Orcs train their dogs

7:37 PM

@Shalvenay I like the concept

I guess this can probably be reopened. It is technically not a dupe even though it is a super basic question

@KorvinStarmast It didn't, really. It could've, but the players were all grognards who thought it was fun as heck. I can see some of the appeal, but to me it felt more like a good parody of a RPG campaign than a good RPG campaign :)

@Rubiksmoose reopen vote cast.

I think the ostensible goal of making players fear death was botched, though.

@kviiri There is no arguing about taste ... :) gustibus non disputandum or something like that ...

@kviiri Yes, and I think it take a bit of seasoning by a new DM to get a feel for that, for how the tension brings great enjoyment.

7:39 PM

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, I mean the execution in pursuit of the goal was botched... but it didn't stop it from being a fun game for those who were into that sort of thing.

I always feel a bit adrift in that style of games. Out of control.

@KorvinStarmast btw, the vials were potions and poisons of various sorts

HEH, funny thing just happened. I just got a shopping list placed on my keyboard by the Missus. Looks Like I am going shopping. :)

@Shalvenay I wanted to ID them when it was all over, but we were running late and the story wrap up with Trauvin and shaman and cleric was more important.

What did you think of my "dutch uncle" act with Trauvin?

@KorvinStarmast I liked it :) gave him a chance to tell his side of the story

@Rubiksmoose VtROed as well

@Shalvenay Yeah, I wasn't too sure if he was being blackmailed, had a friend/relation with the thireves, or if he'd been taken advantage of ... that was a good conversation to have. Enjoyed your side of that role play. Young guy in over his head. Well done.

Thanks :)

7:43 PM

@KorvinStarmast thx :) that's what I was going for -- he wasn't from around those parts and didn't know what he was getting into when he heard "lockboxes? you'll need to go to the next town over fer those"

@Shalvenay How about for a name, the old cleric be called Librarius. ;)

@KorvinStarmast haha :D

@Shalvenay I also really liked how you presented/played the shaman. That had good feel, all the way around.

That campaign was also one of those I dislike the most: ones where one's expected to avoid meta-gaming at all costs and think in character always, but that still reserve the right to kill characters for not being tactically strong or genre savvy and paranoid enough

@kviiri perhaps that's an acquired taste? like absynth?

7:47 PM

So one either metagames with paper thin excuses and feels dirty about it, or gets to enjoy roleplaying tons of fascinating deaths

OK, my dear friends, our Lady of Starmast has indicated by 'that look' that it is time for me to get grocieries. Fair thee well and good hunting! :)

be well

@KorvinStarmast Quite likely

I used to like Angband so I'm not one to judge really.

7:58 PM

I should work on my thesis but I want to write RPGs first :<

Maybe I'll do a draft on a Cthulhu Dark scenario before science.

hey there @inthemanual

@kviiri Compromise. Write your thesis about RPGs.

8:26 PM

@MikeQ Already am - Roly Poly Graphs.

Toroidic grids to be precise.

9:40 PM

The yellow-banded pipefish. (Photo: Orlandin)

Tweeted by Strange_Animals on January 27, 2018 at 10:30 AM

Q: Does a mount gain an extra action and movement when it is mounted?

10:15 PM

1

While you're mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently. You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, donkeys, and simi...

dnd-5e movement mounted-combat

anybody willing to cast the final vote on this one to close as duplicate? I think it is a pretty clear-cut case.

10:31 PM

Done done duuuh.