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12:06 AM
Sounds very similar to everyone is John
 
It does.
Haven't read it.
At the very least, it won't have all the nasty baggage about mental health stereotypes.
 
True
It was a weird game
Played it the one time
Don't ever need to again
 
@BESW Ah, but it probably has all the nasty baggage about AI stereotypes.
 
@Miniman oh but the AI won't defend itself so it's ok :P
 
@trogdor And people wonder why sufficiently advanced AIs always turn against humanity...
(Dragonity? Trogdority?)
 
12:14 AM
Hey, we dragons don't insist on building skynet then complain about it killing humans
XP
 
See, having been deeply immersed in shadowrun lore of late, that sounds pretty close to a realistic scenario.
I'm sure dragons would manipulate humans into building AI that kills all of them.
 
@Miniman code red
I repeat, dispose of the mini one, he is on to us
 
@trogdor As an anthropomorphised embodiment of elemental forces, I'm actually neutral in this matter.
 
Nvm wrap it up people nothing to BURNINATE here
 
In this scenario, I'm imagining dragons as baby boomers
Writing articles like "Are millenials killing civilization?"
 
12:20 AM
@trogdor I really wish I could point out here that as an avatar of elemental fire, I can't be BURNINATED...but that's sadly not true.
 
"Obsessed with avocado toast, this self-centered generation will do anything for their next paycheck, including develop a highly dangerous AI that dooms the human race."
"Here are the 12 signs that your species may be doomed!"
 
@SPavel some of us are Millennial dragons
Just gonna point that out
XD
 
@trogdor As in thousands of years old, or...?
 
You know, an avocado is actually somewhat like a dragon
 
No
 
12:22 AM
Rough, thick green skin
Prized as an ingredient by sorcerers
 
@NTBKompy May your avocados grow as fierce and healthy as they did in the days of giant ground sloths!
 
No you are all wrong, I'm going back to my lair to complain about this on my blog
 
hey there @Randomorph
 
@Shalvenay howdy
 
@trogdor Millennials use Snapchat
 
12:32 AM
@Randomorph how're things going?
 
#generationfail
#hellofellowkids
 
hey there @Asteria
 
@SPavel yeah just like how "all millennials like Avocado" sure
 
@trogdor As a millennial, if you don't want that avocado, I'll eat it
 
If you want to make sweeping statements all day go ahead :P
 
12:35 AM
Making sweeping statements all day is basically my job
 
And you can have all of the Avocado as far as I care
 
@Shalvenay alright, a bit tired, but otherwise can't complain. Yourself?
 
@SPavel lol
 
As a [user] I want to [do a stupid thing] so that [the engineers have something to build this quarter]
^ writing these all day
 
@Randomorph alright here, hoping to get a bunch of stuff moving in the near future
 
12:38 AM
Millennials are so used to sweeping statements that they just don't understand their value anymore. They don't remember when you had to wait three days for a sweeping statement to arrive, and you made it last a month.
 
@BESW Personally, I use an app to call a maid service that sweeps for me
And an attorney that makes statements for me
 
@Rubiksmoose I guess great minds think alike. We answered nearly identically, at nearly the same time lol
 
@Randomorph and at nearly the same time. You SOB :)
 
We'd all go out on the porch and watch the statement man coming down main street on his wagon. The horse would nibble broad stereotypes right out of my hand.
 
@Randomorph btw in the middle of typing I almost change my position on warcaster because I almost thought that it failed the one creature target condition, but it looks good.
 
12:44 AM
@Rubiksmoose yep, Green Flame fails it though
 
@Randomorph yup that was what I was thinking of
@Randomorph well there's one question that you won't have to compete with me over lol
 
@Rubiksmoose What question?
 
hey there @daze413
 
@Rubiksmoose Oh! The one you just asked lol
 
@Randomorph that's the one!
 
12:50 AM
@Shalvenay heyo o/
 
@daze413 let me know on Discord if you have any questions about what you're reading for logs
 
sure thing
 
1:06 AM
@BESW lol
 
@Randomorph It is not very popular (yet), but I thought it was interesting lol
 
 
2 hours later…
2:51 AM
hey there @JoelHarmon
 
Note to self: banana infused rum + grapefruit juice = yes
 
@BESW Hey, just letting you know -- typed rpg.stackexchange.com into my search bar in my browser (MS Edge), and got redirected twice to a pop-up/malware site (typical "dangerous XYZ discovered on your device, call this Windows support number and pay this to get it immediately removed" deal). Got great security, so it was rebuffed and I was sent back to my previous site. Finally go through to this site, obviously. Just wanted to let you know, though.
Since it might be tied to your URL and all
 
[squint] Why me?
 
hey there @Alphaeus
 
@BESW We know what you did.
4
 
2:59 AM
@BESW You're the only "mod" I know of on this site
 
Please report it on Role-playing Games Meta so it can get seen by the folks who can do something about it.
 
Ah, kk
 
other than the close call with the imposter rpg.se, how've things been btw @Alphaeus?
 
That's flattering, but I'm just an active user--and our elected moderators are exception handlers, not techs or devs. Problems with the site's infrastructure need to get kicked upstairs to our Benevolent Stack Overlords.
 
KK, will do
 
3:00 AM
@Alphaeus can you check your history and verify the exact url you entered and history of where you got redirected?
 
@Shalvenay things have been going good
 
Also hi.
 
I'm sure that information will be requested
 
Can't check the errant url
security took care of that already
 
@Alphaeus fair enough
 
3:01 AM
that said, my searches show that it was typed correctly
 
@Alphaeus fascinating
 
@Alphaeus I've been alright here. putting my pastoralist orcs through their paces :)
 
Haahaa, nice
 
@Shalvenay Pastorialist orcs? That's a new one
 
@SPavel yeah, it's my steppe-orc take on things. "Mongol cowboys" is another description I use for them
 
3:06 AM
Started up a new game I'm co-DMing. Imagine if Eberron was entangled in The Matrix and you have the campaign
 
Very strange... are you on mobile or desktop?
 
@Alphaeus heheheh
 
@Shalvenay Mm, to me "pastoral" carries connotations of peace and leisure en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastoral
And "mongol cowboys" suggests violence and upheaval
 
@SPavel ah. I meant as in "nomadic, animal-raising lifestyle"
 
I dunno, I could go with capital-p Pastorial orcs
All the "civilized" races keep intruding on their utopia
And so a select few Orcs who crave violence and strife join the volunteer soldierly
As a result, the Orcs that civilized races encounter are the ones that crave violence and bloodshed, and a stereotype develops.
 
3:10 AM
hahaha xD
 
@daze413 Laptop.
 
@Alphaeus Neo rides a velociraptor into a chapel, where Agent Smith is a 10 year old girl?
3
 
Hey @Shalvenay. Seems my internet connection is cutting in and out about once or twice a day, so I wasn't actually here.
 
@JoelHarmon ah. things are alright here, been putting the pastorcs to the test :)
 
@SPavel ...an RPG by Ryo Kamiya.
 
3:13 AM
@SPavel Lmao, not quite. Essentially the "Machines" are replaced by the Quori in this case, who have obtained means of increasing their power enough to more or less rule all of Eberron.
 
Eve. All. How fairs the day?
 
@Alphaeus Don't have edge XD but my IE has a stock search bar, that weirdly has no search engine behind it, apparently? Is that the same for you too? or were you using a particular search engine?
 
hey there @Acts7Seven, alright here. as to you?
 
Doing well. Prepping for a first go at ToA (tomb of annihilation)
 
@Alphaeus Key to Matrix lore is the fact that the Machines are ultimately benevolent, and believe that the Matrix is the best way to ensure happiness for the maximum number of humans, given that humanity is unwilling to accept Machine dominance of Earth
Seems like the Quori would rather just kill everyone
 
3:16 AM
@Acts7Seven ah, going to be having some fun with that myself soon here in Nits' run through that. playing a local to the area, vs. some far-off explorer
 
I'm curious about teleporting. I've had previous discussions about it. And now another oddity
@Shalvenay awesome. Play either of the new background?
TELEPORTING TO CHU LT
In the interest of time, Syndra is prepared to use a tele-
port spell to transport herself and the heroes to Port
Nyanzaru. If the characters agree, don't bother rolling
to determine the spell's accuracy. Syndra knows the
city's Harbor Ward well enough to arrive on target. She
chooses an outdoor location near the docks as her destination.
"Don't bother rolling to determine accuracy"... does one normally roll accuracy on teleport?
 
@Acts7Seven we aren't to that point yet. we'll see when the time comes, although some things may have to be tweaked since I'm playing a Chultan local
 
@Shalvenay Do they live in pastents, or did they just used to?
 
@JoelHarmon :P nah
 
(sorry for that delay - that was the connection again)
 
3:23 AM
@Acts7Seven If using the teleport spell, you generally have to roll to see whether you get where you wanted to go.
 
@daze413 Edge will run through the search engine of your choice (in my case, bing) if you type a search. If you type a URL though it will just go straight to the website, no search engine required.
 
Ironically, as described, the character should have had a 25% chance of teleporting somewhere else.
 
I guess that will be the first difference for our run -- we'll have at least one if not two party members abstaining from how the rest of the party gets to Chult ;)
 
@SPavel The Quori have had a shift in leadership and mentality a bit over the millennia in this setting, and have decided that rulership is much better than death. Not quite 100% Matrix in this case, but close enough.
 
@Alphaeus probably better aimed at SPavel
 
3:26 AM
Fixed
 
@Alphaeus well, the Machines don't really rule over humanity
so much as keep them in perpetual sleep
 
@Alphaeus we did get a rather interesting little setup out of the run, though, if you want to hear, even if the PC slept through it all
 
@Shalvenay sure!
 
@Alphaeus so...the PC's a half-elf paladin (this is important background) who was sent on a fetch-quest after an artifact
 
@SPavel In this case, the Quori have sent all but the most monstrous races (as well as those that managed to escape their dominance) into a more or less "programmed" living -- they still live, but they only do the same tasks every day, much like The Truman Show. Matrix is the basic guideline, but we're toying with things a bit to be more viable in Eberron
 
3:31 AM
well, he had competition on the fetch-quest in the form of two bandit-lasses, who tried to take up arms against him. the elfblooded one grabbed a naked longsword, while the human one drew a lightly concealed shortsword. After a few nicks and scratches, the paladin took a longsword crit (thrust through his left shoulder) in exchange for what basically amounted to a smite/searing smite combo on his own thrust into the elfblood bandit-lass....
blade went right through her heart, with the smite basically searing it into oblivion (thank you massive damage rules)
the other bandit lass proceeded to yield at swordpoint and then flee, leaving the paladin to finish the quest. however, the bandit lasses had friends and one of them wasn't to happy about his girl turning up dead by the paladin's sword, so the bandits chased the PC straight into the arms of the orc caravan
 
lol
Typically not a good thing, per standard conceptions
 
and then proceeded to attack the PC right in front of the orcs. not the brightest idea -- one thug got hang time from an orc scout's mount goring him after taking arrows, a second thug fled, and the third called the paladin out only to get cut down by him, and then was captured by the caravan
 
Orcs to the rescue
I like it
 
cue nightfall a bit later on. remember the bandit-lass from earlier? she sneaks into the camp, steals the artifact back, and is getting ready to shank the sleeping paladin when an orc boy spots the glint of her steel, grabs a nearby rolling pin, and comes after her xD
(the paladin blissfully sleeps through the ensuing commotion, but if he had awakened, talk about a minor quandary -- chivalry says to side with the girl being attacked by the Orc, but it seems like the circumstances say the Orc's probably actually the one on the defensive here?)
 
Good thing he stayed asleep
 
3:40 AM
(in the end, the girl got beat up on a bit with a rolling pin, got the knife knocked from her hand in the process, and got thrown around a bit struggling with the Orcs that awoke to the commotion then was captured herself)
(I do want to ask the player how their char would have reacted to awakening into the middle of it all though)
hey there @nitsua60
 
@Acts7Seven You running it or playing?
@Shalvenay hiya
 
@nitsua60 how're things going?
 
@Shalvenay IMO the Pally should have taken the side of the orcs. They saved him, they took him in, and the lass was already determined to be the wrongdoer.
Good and Evil there are rather easily determined
 
@Alphaeus yeah, that's kind of what I expect them to do -- it's not immediately obvious that the lass is the wrongdoer if you're waking up into the middle of the commotion though
 
3:52 AM
@Shalvenay Good. Session full of puzzles, which meant a lot of "I get to lean back and listen to them struggle for 10 minutes" time. Low cognitive load, which was a nice easing back into the swing of things. (I'd not run this game last week.)
 
@nitsua60 nice. been working on my one-on-one thing with Korvin, should wrap that this weekend sometime. speaking of: when should I expect to hear from you about timing re: session 0?
@SmokeDetector wwwwwaitamomentbtw: what did Smokey just ID as an email in that answer? I can't find it :/
 
@Shalvenay The twitter accounts
 
@nitsua60 -- am I missing something with that smokey-link?
 
Because they use the "@" symbol
 
@Alphaeus no
it flagged "combat chapter" as an email address, fail.
 
3:56 AM
lmfao
tfw random messages start popping up on the pages of your DnD Resource books
 
@Alphaeus @nitsua60 scoop from charcoal HQ:
in Charcoal HQ, 5 mins ago, by angussidney
@iBug I made some changes, but they've backfired
 
@Shalvenay At the latest, tomorrow evening. (My study hall duty==sitting bored in a classroom for two hours.)
 
@nitsua60 heh
 
Working on building out a character concept for a campaign a buddy wants me to join
 
@Alphaeus ah, what sort of campaign?
 
4:06 AM
Post-Apocalyptic US. System is 3.5e/PF/DM's Homebrew.
 
@Alphaeus ah, I don't do post-apoc stuff so v0v
 
Well, general concept is that humans used technology to discover magic
brought fantasy creatures from other realms to earth
chaos ensued
millennia have passed after the collapse -- society is essentially on typical Pathfinder tech levels, with a bit of steampunk thrown in
Just set in the US with survival emphasis
Character is going to be a Fine minus-minus size Grig
Who is a Paladin.
And engages furiously in melee
 
:p
 
I also did finally get into a campaign with my Hot Tub Druid
So that was fun
 
@Alphaeus oh? remind me who he is?
 
4:15 AM
Dragon Compendium had the Urban Druid, which is a separate class from the typical druid
The class is generally inferior to Druid, but it has a few upsides.
One odd one is that you can take animated objects as your companions
at level 4 you get Large Animated objects
At that level you select for yourself a Clawfoot Tub.
To this animated clawfoot tub you affix a Decanter of Endless Water.
with a valve
You then pay for someone to cast Mantle of the Fiery Spirit on your beloved companion
You now have a Living Hot Tub
In which your druid sits naked
Affixed to the sides of this are Handy Haversacks
One contains your meager supplies -- clothing includes chromatic shirt and bell-bottom pants in a shade of green you are not quite certain what it is
But most of the time the druid sits naked is his bubbling tub
This build is a parody of the mounted combat builds using druid
It gets even better if you take a level in Wizard/Sorcerer and then go Arcane Hierophant, turning your tub into an intelligent, TALKING hot tub
You can, ofc, later also make this tub fly
It naturally will float, perhaps with a bit of assistance, so you don't even need a boat (just seal the drain)
 
lol, oh dear
 
Yes, quite.
Definitely heavy on the humor side of things
but one of those builds I just couldn't resist
He offered the Monk to ride with him.
The monk in the party did not oblige
:(
 
4:44 AM
howdy @NautArch
 
5:12 AM
@nitsua60 GM. We started on LMoP but PCs took so many side quests that we lost the plot. They have just teleported from a Christmas adventure.
 
5:45 AM
@Icyfire Hey dude whats up
I just tested myself and H2O2 Isn't dense enough to float dice on its own
Will keep looking for other transparent fluids with higher densities
Maybe beer would work
Nah.. Beer would be even worse
Not only is it less dense its also filled with CO2
 
6:05 AM
Heyy
Yeah the thing is that most commercially available H2O2 is only a 3% solution
And the highest you can get is 30%, which I wouldn't advise using without being trained and in a lab setting
@Sandwich But why do you want to use things other than saltwater?
 
Because there might be a clear compound out there that might be easier to use than mixing up an MgSO4 + H2O solution everytime you wanna test some dice
If there is such a liquid it would be incredibly useful for determining so easily
Its in the nature of science to look for a better and better solution to things
 
But salt water is pretty clear, isn't it?
 
Yeah
But it isn't easy
 
I actually think that a question like that would be great for the chemistry or physics SE
 
I just posted it on Chemistry SE actually
 
6:11 AM
Haha nice
I gave you an upvote there, but I don't think I have an answer
 
You have to take time to melt the salts until you have a maxed out solution, then cool down the solution
Its a time consuming and energetic procedure that could be better served just finding a better medium to test in
I wish someone would do the salt water float test again so we could measure the density at which a d20 floats
We could use that information to find out what liquid we could use
Since Density is a factor of Weight and volume it shouldn't be too hard to figure out
 
Oh man. I cannot believe all the humor in ToA. I was reading thru some of the consequences of failed rolls.
 
ToA?
 
I could do that, but different die are going to have different densities
 
My other question got closed before anyone could answer it
Essentially it boiled down to "If you changed the temperature and time that you melted dice at could you create loaded dice without any visible flaws"
-3
Q: Can an oven and melting be used to further alter an existing die's biases or balance?

SandwichIn another question I probed the community to determine whether or not microwaves would alter a dies balance and got a sufficient amount of responses that really opened my mind to the concept of altering dice. A productive person went a step further and that got me thinking: Can different amou...

Like would lowering the time in the oven still melt it enough to change the biases present in the die
Without any noticeable flaws
 
6:25 AM
Hmm
I feel like that will have to be empirically determined
But it's likely that it's the same issue as in the other question, which is that heating will go from the outside in
So the outer surface will always melt first
Actually yeah, the answer to that question is probably "not without obviously melted dice"
 
6:43 AM
@Sandwich I think it would vary depending on exact material and construction. Are transparent, opaque, pearlescent, swirl, clear-with-sparkles all the same density? Across all brands?
 
Well like most materials dice also have to have a melting point
 
Also, I have heard that the float test is not a great test of a dice's fairness anyway.
 
You could lower the temperature and increase the time to get more even heating
 
was replying to an earlier comment, re: density
 
And then slowly raise the temperature
Its very fair Adeptus
 
6:44 AM
Last I checked, nobody in any of the dice-related answers so far have even mentioned fill.
Which, to my eyes, is a good measure of how much we are NOT experts in the manufacturing and physical materials fields related to our hobby's props.
 
Slightly round off the edges of one face of a d20. It will be less likely to stop on that face, but I suspect would not make enough difference to be noticed in a float test.
 
I mentioned that in the meta Adeptus
Shaving is only one way to create loaded dice
 
Which would be undetected by a float test. Hence a float test is not a good catch-all test.
 
Fundamentally, you'll get completely different answers depending on whether you're working with machined or molded dice--and how cheaply they're molded, if so.
 
Shaving off part of a face would be detected by a float test though, because you're shaving mass off of that side of the die
In Icyfire's answer on his 18 die that he tested if you shaved the three edges of the 18 its still weighted towards that side
But with obvious shaving it'd probably land on the three adjacent numbers and the 18 more often instead of just the 18
 
6:55 AM
Round the edges of the 20-side, so it's less likely to land 20-down (so, 1 up?). Then flatten the opposite (1?) side. Shave equal amounts from both sides, should bias it without being noticed in a float test.
(might be noticed with a visual inspection, depending how aggressively you shave it)
 
Honestly, while I think that such things will affect the probabilities, I'm not sure how noticeable they will be
Given that TTRPGs aren't casinos, a few % variation probably won't make a gameplay difference
You'd need a truly loaded die, I think
 
7:27 AM
You'd have to melt a die to be biased towards the 20 and then do a chi-squared test to determine that
Probably would be best to create two or three that are melted on the same time and roll them all at the same time to speed up the results
Otherwise you'd be rolling all afternoon
 
 
1 hour later…
9:04 AM
Hrmm. I do not think this is system agnostic in the "You want solutions to the question that are not directly tied to a game's mechanics" sense: summing dice (instead of counting successes, or any of the other ways to measure a die's outcome) is system-specific, as is rolling all the same polyhedron at once.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in body: Do you know some good sites to buy coc gems? by SulliRichelle on rpg.SE
 
@BESW I've flagged for moderator, as the edit reapplied the tag after @doppelgreener removed it
 
Ooh, I hadn't noticed that.
Clearly my brain is occupied with other, much less important, things.
 
very. why aren't you thinking about stack editing right this moment
i've removed it again. there's not much purpose for a sys-ag tag on that post.
 
9:45 AM
@BESW this is great and horrifying
 
It's right up there with His Mind Raced.
 
10:20 AM
@BESW ... yes it is
 
11:14 AM
@BESW lol
 
 
2 hours later…
1:22 PM
Morning
 
1:45 PM
morning @SPavel
 
 
2 hours later…
3:20 PM
I'm still pretty far from levelling, but starting to looking at magical secrets for 7th level spells and not sure where i want to go.
Xanathar's Crown of Stars looks pretty nice, as does conjure celestial.
or simulacrum.
having another me would be pretty sweet.
 
@NautArch Simulacrum has the downside of being very expensive, and Spell Slots and HP are not recovered naturally. It usually best to Clone the Rogue or other Physical non-tank DPS type
Also don't discount 6th level spells. Picking up Heal, Disintegrate or Contingency are all pretty good
 
@Randomorph That's a good point. Money isn't as much of an issue. Just got a 10,000gp diamond that i could eventually sell in a town for ruby dust. That's enough for a lot of castings.
Disintegrate is a pretty neat idea, though.
THe problem with the non-tank DPS types is that i have to equip them. My character is basically built to work with no equipment (other than a spellcasting focus)
I just went through two major battles and received a total of 10HP damage
 
@Acts7Seven Neat. inthemanual and I have been chatting on and off about ToA in a dedicated room: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/66684/…
 
the DM for some reason just never targeted me (of course, I was also hiding in an insect swarm for a lot of them.)
 
Feel free to pop in any time.
 
3:27 PM
@NautArch Yeah ruby dust is something your DM might make relatively rare, depending on the DM, so just be aware of that. Disintegrate is better on Big things (since it's one shot done) than Crown of Stars. Crown of Stars is better if you can prepare, and might have to fight multiple enemies. Crown of Stars won't destroy all the target's gear either.
 
@Randomorph Yeah, I liked the non-concentration buff of it.
 
@NautArch Really, if you go for something like a rogue or ranger, it costs a set of Studded Leather, and a Long or Short bow. Easy-peasy.
Especially if you're already blowing a small fortune on ruby dust
 
@Randomorph true, but a lot of our enemies require magic weapon attacks now at level 15/16.
Also not sure I want to manage a simulacrum :)
 
If you use Simulacrum on yourself, what you basically create is a battery, and give yourself an additional cantrip per round otherwise.
 
@Randomorph Prismatic Spray looks like fun. Doesn't quite do as much damage as disintegrate, but it can deal half damage on a success, which disintegrate doesn't.
 
3:31 PM
@Adam Prismatic Spray suffers from the LOLRANDOM factor, in that you can't predict it's value, and usually it's a lot less than just upscaling a fireball or something
@NautArch Teleport is also a really solid Magical Secret if no one else in your party has it or Teleport Circle
Or Plane Shift if you're playing more multiplanar rather than global
Oh wait.. What.. Bards can get Teleport? Maaaan. Bards were given way too much
 
I really don't think the "lolrandom" factor is necessarily a factor at all. Each beam except for the last one does the same 10d6 damage, it just does it in a different types. Different types isn't really lolrandom when resistance isn't a factor. Which it could be, I know. Plus, it just seems more fun that way. Upscaling a fireball is boring. but that's just me.
I really hate how I have to write a full paragraph about how I disagree, but yet see somebody else's point. But that's neither here nor there.
 
Mental Prison looks pretty neat - but it also seems really easy to break it (even though breaking it causes 10d10 psychic damage)
 
I'm just going to see myself out now. Many apologies
 
@Adam If resistance isn't a factor, just upscale a Cone of Cold or Fireball and deal more damage roughly 90% of the time. If it is, you don't want to roll the dice on if your 7th level slot will do anything or not.
 
@Adam huh?
 
3:34 PM
@Adam I agree with the upscaling is boring part though
 
@Randomorph You win. I'm wrong. goodbye
 
@Adam uhhh.. I wasn't trying to win? I was just voicing my opinion on the faults of that spell. I'm sorry if I offended.
 
prismatic spray was interesting looking, but i think there other options. I was looking for more battlefield control or big buffs to give others.
 
@NautArch Reverse Gravity is actually really good any time you have a fairly open area, or high ceilings
Regenerate is also a big buff.. But oh wait Bards get that too. Jesus lol
 
@Randomorph bards are amazing. I am shocked at how few people want to play them.
DM kept asking how I was handing out my bardic inspiration. Dude, I've got 5 of them and they regenerate with a short rest.
...which you just gave us
 
3:39 PM
@NautArch I'm aware they are amazing. I think WotC went a little overboard on everything they gave them, tbh
Full Casters with many amazing spells, plus they can poach anyone's list. Oh also have Rogue's thing of expertise, and decent HP, light armour, and a ton of other side abilities too.
 
@NautArch It's like ki points and superiority dice. I have difficulty spending all of them, sometimes.
 
@Randomorph They do a lot of things well - nothing great, though. You're trading specific strong powers for a lot of good powers.
 
@NautArch I mean, their Heal is as good as anyone else's except a Life Cleric. Their Fireball is as good as anyone else's except an Evoker or (Red/Gold) Dragon Sorcerer. Expertise is no better or worse on the Rogue or the Bard.
 
@NautArch To be fair, that's exactly the class's idea. Remember they started as fighter 5, then before 8 MC into thief, then before 9 MC into druid.... (PHB1e app.II)
 
@nitsua60 they also weren't Full casters until 5e (maybe 4e too?)
 
3:43 PM
@Randomorph but they don't have the spell utility of a wizard, they have to invest in heal options (rather than combat, control or RP) in order to be equal to cleric, and while they can compete with a rogue in terms of expertise and skills, they can't in damage output with sneak attack.
I say all that, but I do agree that my bard is freaking amazing. It's hard to put him down because he's squirrely and his toolkit is pretty big. Of the original characters when the campaign started at I think level 3, I'm the only one left.
 
@NautArch Drop a Disintegrate then. Throw some fireballs. Suddenly the Rogue is Jealous. As to the Wizard thing, sure you have every spell, but you have approximately 20-24 spells known. That's more than enough to get some of the best ones with the widest utility.. Like Polymorph.
 
true, one died on one of our critical fumbles and another walked away because the player was bored, but still (total of about 5 originals)
@Randomorph yeah, but the rogue can do that without expending resources every turn. I can drop that disintegrate 1/day.
 
@NautArch You can cast it twice a day, using your 6th and 7th level slots. Or use Crown of Stars instead to do 4d12 7 times (roughly the same as 8d6 7 times)
The rogue has to sneak attack a lot to match that damage. Then there's AoE which the rogue plain can't do. Then you can turn and heal the Rogue. Or resurrect him.
 
and yet...no one still wants to play the bard :)
handing out d10 bardic inspiration saved two of my compatriots
 
@Randomorph My bard is a Bard 8 Life cleric 1 :D
 
3:50 PM
@NautArch I like Wizard, but I would play the Bard. I would just have to be careful to not min-max myself to make the others lose their spotlight
 
@NautArch Bards are THE BEST
 
@Rubiksmoose Yep, which is doesn't seem right for the class that's supposed to be Jack of All Trades, Master of None
 
@Randomorph I'm pretty min-maxed, but I choose when to step back a lot. But there are times when I just don't have the right tool for the situation (very rare, though.)
 
@NautArch point being, 2 bards can replace a full party of four in almost every way.. That feels.. Wrong.
 
@Randomorph I didn't actually mean it in a literal sense. I really like them, but I don't think you can say that they are unequivocally that much stronger than most other classes.
@Randomorph I feel that this is simply not true though.
 
3:52 PM
@Rubiksmoose If they really were, I think we'd see places like GiTP and others extolling the virtues of the bard...but they don't.
 
@Rubiksmoose well it's not in terms of action economy. But in terms of skills and "necessary" abilities like healing, control, dps, covered... Yeah they kind of can.
 
@Randomorph DPS is actually one of the areas they can easily be outclassed in.
 
The one spot they aren't the greatest at is Tanking, and Sustained DPS.. But with Cantrips they can do alright at it
@Rubiksmoose except so can Wizards.. But they can make up for it the exact same way, using powerful AoE, control, or single target nukes
@Rubiksmoose if you're running dozens of encounters per day, then yeah, the Full casters will struggle, but otherwise they can make up for lack of sustain with raw burst
 
@Randomorph I mean, I guess I'm saying that my bard has never seemed to be the most powerful class at my table. They are good, but I've never seen them be good to the point of invalidating other classes.
 
@Rubiksmoose I think most people don't play them aggressively that way, but my issue is they have the ability to step on (nearly) everyone's toes, and a good number of toes at the same time, with no real drawbacks.
 
3:57 PM
@Randomorph The drawback to being versatile is that you can spread yourself too thin. If a bard doesn't focus they can easily be worse at everything than any other focused class
 
@Rubiksmoose yeah, but they can still focus on 1-2 spell types (eg healing and control), meanwhile have the best full caster hp pool (tied with clerics), armour, lots of skills plus expertise, and built in support abilities with Bardic Inspiration, Song of Rest etc.. Oh and the skills you didn't take? You get Jack of All Trades.
 
@Randomorph But yeah they do have toe-stepping potential. No denying that.
 
And really, they can still afford 1 or 2 spell picks on a flexible damage spell
 
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