TRPG General Chat

@BESW Yeah, it looked really good to me. I tried it on my Android tablet, and it was great on the browser - just like on the PC.

I had no idea Google My Maps existed.

I also tried using the Google My Maps app on my tablet, but I really can't recommend it.

I've seen it used for a few other things, but it's definitely improved since the last time I saw it

The app only seems to allow you to place markers (not draw lines and polygons), and is generally a lot more clunky!

@Aether Adding that to your answer would kick it up a notch; I was going to check out the app.

12:17 AM

@BESW Done.

Sweet.

[mashes upvote button harder]

Glad to help :)

1:40 AM

Out of curiosity, how would you guys prioritise the saves in 3.5?

@JoelHarmon Will > Fortitude >>> Reflex

Will beats out Fortitude because dying is much less of an issue than being controlled.

All Reflex saves do is damage, so...meh.

nitsua60

Three ">"? Is that "much much greater than?"

yeah

@nitsua60 Instant death vs some amount of damage. It's that much more important.

that's more or less what I've read, but I haven't done enough high level (> 12) play to have a good feel for it

1:43 AM

The priorities do shift around a bit, since you can get immunity to most effects that target Will or Fortitude.

as a thought exercise, I'm poking at a charop focused on saves (and maybe AC) rather than some kind of offence

@JoelHarmon The problem is, why would your enemies waste their actions killing you when they could kill your teammates who are actually a threat?

that plus having only once played a level 20 character (as part of a one-shot) makes this a thought exercise

The only effective way I know of to "tank" is something like this.

> Thus, while a foe is in the character's threatened area, nearly every significant action a foe takes except standard and full attacks provokes an attack of opportunity from the character. Upon that provocation, the character makes a trip attempt. If successful, the character makes a free attack versus the tripped foe via the feat Improved Trip.

yeah, spiked chain tripping

I'm roughing something out, but the current goal is to give 30+ to all three saves

2:20 AM

@JoelHarmon Context for the value of saves.

@JoelHarmon Nymphs add their Cha modifier as an untyped bonus to all AC and all saves.

My epic-level anyganger's default defensive form was nymph. (The AoE blinding and at-will stunning were just gravy.)

@BESW It's a pretty great summary, but it's interesting that he doesn't even mention mind control, which is generally the worst possible thing to be hit by.

(His default offensive form was force dragon; they get to add their Cha mod to saves and attacks.)

Feb 25 '15 at 0:01, by BESW

The second-best debuff is death. The best debuff is "He's on our side now."

2

that seems pretty reasonable

@BESW Yeah, that.

Rarity - The Worst Possible Thing

►

2:58 AM

@BESW thanks for the recommendation on Nymph, but that would end up being something to be polymorphed into, as +7 LA is very steep

I figure I'd need around a +9 cha bonus to make that worth it from straight levels

that's certainly possible (even desirable, with the paladin's similar bonus), but I'm not yet convinced it will be worth the opportunity cost

@JoelHarmon Absolutely. My character was a doppelganger taking advantage of shapeshifting prestige classes intended for druids.

that sounds more like it

I did have to spend a wish to get access to the fey creature type before level 36 or so, though.

hmm

I'd prefer to stay as.... uncontroversial? as possible with this

I could've gotten it sooner, but as you say--opportunity costs.

The PrC that gave me fey would've required me to pass through multiple levels which just repeated features I'd already gotten from other, stronger classes.

The wish was pretty straightforward, though; it was something along the lines of "Let me add the fey type to the list of creatures I can use my existing abilities to mimic."

3:08 AM

that's nonstandard, but not too unreasonable seeming

the trouble would be getting that wish in the first place, unless you were caster-y enough to do it, or found some item

(I'm vaguely recalling Pun-Pun here, but I don't recall those details)

A Ring of Three Wishes is trivially cheap at epic levels.

One of my fellow party members bought three of them, because he was bad at wording wishes.

well, if that's what you need to do....

I suppose a DM might be generous with help, if the character has 20+ int or 20+ wis, allowing a roll might be ok

That particular GM was a stickler for phrasing, but if you could word the wish precisely enough he'd usually grant it without any catches.

That particular player wound up hiring my wizard/cleric to write wishes for him.

that could be very cost effective for both people

And, yes, the GM let me make rolls to see if I could spot holes in a wish's wording.

...that was the first group I'd ever not been (primarily) a GM for.

Hmm. Save boosting... [tries to remember 3.5 gimmicks for saves]

Of course you'll want to look at getting (improved) evasion and its Will/Fort equivalents.

Because frankly, in 3.5 the trick is to not rely on big numbers to save you.

The key is finding ways to make big numbers not matter as much.

3:22 AM

I was approaching it just as making the numbers bigger (though I am aware that's trumped by immunities, of course)

the core thing I'm abusing is typically a really, really awful idea: dipping 20 different classes, preferably with 3 or 2 good saves. That gets me +4 or +6 to the sum of the saves for all 20 levels

pally's divine grace makes me focus cha, and try to get other saves based on it

If you're doing that... check out the Savage Species PrC Survivor.

on a related note, a limitation I'm facing is the small-ish number of books I have to draw from

Ah, yeah. That's a definitive handicap in the choice = power paradigm of the d20 System.

Still, most of the absolute most powerful choices are embedded in the core three.

Supplements are mostly for meeting specific goals (like maximising saves).

though if this is correct, I wouldn't qualify without a rework, because my highest base save shouldn't be lower than my character level

got it; start pally 2, then a ref/will class, then this, I think

and this saves awkward dips into barb/rogue for evasion-y stuff

It's very unusual as a PrC that can be taken before level 6.

3:31 AM

yeah

also, I hit that weird spot of no longer qualifying for the class after my base save goes up again

more unusual is the bab is literally worse than wizard

+0 all the way

You can convert a Monk's Wis-based stuff to Int, is there anything that lets you change it to Cha?

It's often derided for its attitude that "the best defence is a good defence."

@JoelHarmon Which reminds me, you may find this useful.

that's already open in another tab, but thanks

@JoelHarmon :)

3:39 AM

(for the morbidly curious, I started working on this when I stumbled across this and was disappointed that 'saves man' was barely better than monk 20, and not even in all categories)

I generally treat dandwiki as a condiment on an all-salt dish.

that sounds about right, but I sometimes end up there anyway

3:57 AM

Hmm. Maybe I should scale up tonight's villain a little from the Umdaar premade.

Or at least modify her a little; I never really got comfortable in her shoes as-is.

5:57 AM

@Fibericon [wave]

6:31 AM

Huh, so someone is around. Hi.

@Fibericon People are generally around, even if there isn't an active conversation.

Okay, that thunk was entertaining. As long as people are around anyway, I was wondering if you all could help me out here. I'm trying to decide on whether I should leave a group I've been with for a while, based on recent GM behavior.

@Fibericon Generally if you're thinking about ending a relationship, it's a good sign that you probably should.

2

Not a bad approach to the situation, I suppose. The basics of it is that I said something the GM did seemed like poor form, and he responded by shouting, and telling me if I didn't like it I should leave.

That certainly sounds like something you're right to be concerned about; people who can't take criticism are often not fun to be around. On the other hand, if it was just that one time, it's not necessarily indicative of anything.

He might have just had a bad day, or even known that what he did wasn't a good choice, and been irritable about it.

Q: How does a player correct a GM mistake without being a rules lawyer or pushover?

6:47 AM

Hmm. [rummages for useful questions]

114

You are playing in a game. The GM says that you need to roll a given roll. The rules clearly state something different. I realize one solution is to go along to get along, then tell the GM after game, but that means you are rolling to intimidate when your character wants to punch a guy in comb...

30

Q: Should I leave this group or recover it?

Long Version I got a friend into Pathfinder less than a year ago. She had lots of fun. She had so much fun she decided to become a DM/GM. I was very excited about it. Her grasp of the rules is terrible, but I told her I'd let her know if she got too far off course. That's not the problem. The p...

problem-gm

10

Q: How do I deal with aggressive/disrespectful criticism?

This problem hit me as both a Storyteller and as player. I joined a "Survival Horror" game of Vampire: the Masquerade; a minor encounter spiraled out of control in the second session. The GM gave us a laundry list of things we'd done wrong (he recently posted it on a meetup site so we'd remember)...

problem-players group-dynamics problem-gm

I suppose that's true. We had an NPC with us, who was the only one who could defeat the villain. I'm not the hugest fan of these situations, since they seem like poor writing to me, but I was willing to let it slide. In the battle, my character died, which isn't really a new experience to me since I've been playing tabletops for a pretty long time.

What was new to me was the GM ignoring the NPC who could kill said villain, and directing more attacks at me than the rest of the party combined, and hitting me three times while I was already unconscious to ensure death.

Q: Is it acceptable for the GM to attack a recently-stabilized character?

22

I was playing the Scales of War campaign with a group of friends, and my character was getting absolutely destroyed in an encounter. I had failed two death saves, but fortunately for me, the fight ended soon thereafter. However, it got me thinking: What if the fight had continued and one of my...

dnd-4e character-death

6

Q: My GM has created a Mary Sue NPC. What can I do to persuade the GM to make her less powerful?

My GM has created a Mary-Sue-type NPC. She is a demigod with thousands of years of experience, and was once an enemy, but is now an ally of the party, though really of only a few favourite players. She is literally undefeatable, and I actually mean literally, not figuratively. Any attempts to def...

system-agnostic npc problem-gm

From the other end of things:

56

Q: A player was bucking my style and I lost my temper. What can I do from here?

New DM here. Under a year of experience, but I have learned alot from my friend who has helped guide me through the basics of DMing. Basically the only games that I have run have been with my close friends, none of them public, except for one. That one public game is what I want to ask about here...

gm-techniques problem-players

Hmm, I see. I had considered the possibility that sticking around would strain our (seven year long) friendship, but I was also worried that leaving would do the same.

7:02 AM

Broadly speaking, leaving an optional high-stress situation will be better for a friendship because you can repair the friendship away from the cause of the stress, and maybe return to the game later.

But of course that depends entirely on the nature of your friendship and the personalities involved.

Maybe phrase it as a hiatus rather than a full-on quit.

The other reason I was considering staying is that I really really love Exalted. Just, so much. Unfortunately, this sort of attitude makes me a lot less excited to play.

Very understandable.

The people in a game, and their relationships, are always more important than the game itself: the game is simply a vehicle for expressing and enjoying the relationships, same as going to the movies or taking a road trip.

Tend to the friendship first, and the game will hopefully follow.

So--don't go talking to your friend as a player approaching his Storyteller, talk to him as someone you've been friends with for seven years.

Sounds like a good plan. I appreciate the help.

Think about how you'd deal with it if he shouted at you in another circumstance, and let that be your guide.

There's a good chance the pressure of ST duty overrode his sense of camaraderie (a lot of RPGs place undue social weight on the GM's role and give them duties above and beyond facilitating the game itself, making the GM a sort of "group ringleader and wrangler"), and if you can be sympathetic to that instead of confrontational about his slip-up, that'll probably go a long way.

7:19 AM

Exalted is pretty harsh on the ST, especially when everyone's a solar. You can't funnel the players into anything, because there are 100 ways to solve any given problem.

You might consider, tangentially, if there are bookkeeping tasks the ST can hand off to the players.

Tracking status effects or the like.

Could be worth a mainsite question in the same vein as this one, but geared toward Exalted.

We do already track our own health levels, essence, and charms. I've actually been using cards I made here for the charms: imgur.com/a/XSJdW

Other people made their own cards as well, except for the two who bring their laptops to keep track of everything that way.

7:59 AM

That's cool.

I'm pretty unfamiliar with Exalted, but in some of the more mechanically complex games I've played (like D&D 4e) we had a whiteboard where one player kept track of turn order for all the PCs and NPCs, and their current conditions (like charmed, slowed, etc).

8:28 AM

@trogdor Hagåtña's a mess because of the FestPac closing ceremonies, in case you haven't noticed already. Not sure if you're coming from that direction, but the whole road in front of the Chamorro Village is shut down.

I did notice that

If you're coming in from that way, I suggest going over the top past Navy Hospital, but you've still gotta be patient going past the Pool 'cause they're using the parking lot for shuttling people in.

and I am coming from the same area I used to live before, so it isn't an issue this time

Oh, fair enough. So you'll be just going past FD and UOG instead?

except the pool part

yep

8:32 AM

So you can bypass Hagåtña entirely. Sweet.

I can

I was not thinking of going that way, but I see no reason not to

XD

I strongly recommend you do.

Even just taking the Agana Shopping Centre corner, people are driving crazy.

yeah

and thinking about it, people are also crossing the street like they have one chance ever to do it

especially at night, seemingly, which is soooo dumb but what can you do

anyway, I still have to walk the dog first, so I will head out after that

2:12 PM

So, we played Danger Patrol tonight. TONS of fun.

nitsua60

How'd you tell the dice apart?

Pretty well!

It's similar to Lasers & Feelings in tone, but for Flash Gordon style adventures. The mechanics are comparatively a lot crunchier, in ways that heighten the tension and propel story choices.

@nitsua60 Broken lines break markup.

nitsua60

ahh... that's right

5:25 PM

@BESW on our side, I kept the respective dice in clusters on the table in the beginning. But then it became a bit more mixed up as we started taking them away, putting them back, leaving one or two on top of our character sheets, etc. During that last big fistful of dice I rolled, Dan still had a few sitting on his side, so I had to hunt down a few from his collection. :)

@doppelgreener after an image with the image you provided i found the manual of the planes from the 4th edition

perhaps you can find the information you seek there

*after an image search

@Tijnkwan Yes, indeed, but I am actually keen on being able to access that web article and all web articles.

(if possible, or as much as possible)

From what I recall it was a summary of the planes, and I do not recall if it is an extract from MOP.

Well it is not in the dungeon/dragon magazine articles from 10-2008, 11-2008 or 12/2008

So I have no idea how to help you further

@doppelgreener you can always sent an message to the customer support and hope they help since you are an subscriber

5:43 PM

@Tijnkwan I appreciate the effort, and glad we could work out whether dragon magazines had anything to do with this. Thanks for checking on that lead.

@Tijnkwan Past subscriber. Maybe they can help, yeah. Good thinking.

@doppelgreener I am a subscriber so maybe that has some infuence?

I may ask myself, but if you can find out an answer there's updoots in it.

@doppelgreener well I g2g, good luck with your search! Hopefully someone else from the community does know where those articles are.

@doppelgreener updoots?

Q: How should I handle a question without a clear answer?

@Tijnkwan upvotes. :)

Polisurgist

I silently hope that autocorrect turned it into "updoots."

The Oracle

7:53 PM

0

The specific instance is here: Should I adjust encounter challenge for PCs with damage immunities? The situation is that I was looking ideally for a RAW answer or clear-cut advice for handling the case I presented. What happened is that there's several answers posted that have fragments of what ...

discussion

Shalvenay

9:07 PM

hey there @nitsua60

9:40 PM

@Aether We did a quick test of My Maps last night before the game, and it seems pretty awesome. About the only problem is, the updates from other users don't seem to come across in real-time: you have to refresh the page to see the new info.

@BESW Ah, that's rubbish... :(

I'm trying to see if that's just a quirk on my end because of a security addon or something.

...Nothing yet. It's still probably the best solution I've got so far.

That's a real problem, and I'm seeing the same thing... :(

I'm sorry for misleading, I made a dumb assumption... I'll edit my answer.

It's a very reasonable assumption to make.

9:58 PM

But I still should have checked and tested with multiple users at once :/

Stuff keeps saying My Maps does "real time collaboration" without saying what that means.

Well, I hope it's still useful, sorry it's not as great as I thought....

And then there's My Maps Pro, which says it offers that feature without saying what it means or if that's a pro-only feature.

@BESW I noticed that too...

De Staat - Witch Doctor (official video)

11:27 PM

> [...] It was inside this circle that the ring of worshippers jumped and roared, the general direction of the mass motion being from left to right in endless Bacchanal [...] - HP Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu

►

11:39 PM

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