TRPG General Chat

Monsterhearts is straightforwardly about relationships and struggling with your place in the world. I feel like you could actually use most of the mechanics in one session without being confused.

oh and growing up

it is totes about growing up

There are even some halfway-decent rules for growing up, even!

BESW

Hmm.

I wonder if it has pony implications.

Alex P

So, here's how growing up works...

The game is based on moves, right? "Turn Someone On," "Lash Out Physically," "Shut Someone Down," "Gaze Into the Abyss," &c.

Growing up lets you access improved versions of these moves, with better consequences.

To make people feel accepted, to stop violence rather than pay it back, to shut down someone's toxic hold over others, &c.

It lets you break the normal flow of moves.

BESW

Hmm.

So, in pony terms, you start play with generally divisive options, and when you learn a lesson you get access to unifying options.

Alex P

2:47 AM

Yeah.

BESW

I like that. It solves a lot of my problems.

Alex P

Like maybe "go off on an obsessive tangent" becomes "share your cool discovery!"

(I say "becomes" but in the context of MH the moves exist side-by-side.)

BESW

Unlocking additional options, basically?

Alex P

(Also you can do this stuff without "moves" per se, I'm sure. But MH has moves so I am speaking about moves.)

Yeah, most of MH advancement is unlocking options. There's only a little bit of bumping stats.

The other thing I like about it is Darkest Self. It's kinda the "limit break" thing.

I'll quote The Witch:

> The time for subtlety and patience is over. You’re too powerful to put up with their garbage any longer. You hex anyone who slights you. All of your hexes have unexpected side effects, and are more effective than you are comfortable with. To escape your Darkest Self, you must offer peace to the one you have hurt the most.

BESW

oooer.

Alex P

2:50 AM

Basically it's the invitation to just flip out and be crazy.

BESW

That's very much the psychotic kind of thing I want to have.

Alex P

And the insight I like from this is that you don't need that much mechanically for it, really. Just give the PCs tools and the player the instruction to Go Wild using them!

Chosen (basically The Slayer) Darkest Self:

> None of your friends can help. They’re not strong like you are. You need
to chase down the biggest threat imaginable, immediately and alone. Any challenges or dangers that you encounter must be faced head on, even if they might kill you. You escape your Darkest Self when someone comes to your rescue or you wake up in the hospital, whichever comes first.

BESW

What triggers these?

Alex P

Are you familiar roughly with the AW-style 6- / 7-9 / 10+ thing?

BESW

Kinda/sorta.

Alex P

2:56 AM

So, 10+ is the full success, 7-9 is partial -- often a success with serious blowback.

If you Lash Out Physically, your victim can choose to make you become your Darkest Self on a 7-9

If you would be killed, you can do Darkest Self instead

And then there are character-specific ways.

Infernals get it forced on them by the devil.

Having sex with the Mortal.

Witches do it when they fail spells sometimes. Werewolves have an ability that gives them XP for it (combine with Lashing Out a lot).

Oh, and the GM can make you do it as a "Hard Move."

> Hard moves are the things you do whenever the players look at you expectantly, waiting to see what happens next. Whenever someone fails a roll (6 or less), make a hard move. Whenever people put themselves in harm’s way, make a hard move. Whenever it’s unclear what should happen next, make a hard move.

(In the case of "trigger their Darkest Self," you are supposed to use it super sparingly.)

BESW

Hoom. I'm thinking about how to integrate Darkest Self / Growing Up into a Flying Temple type system.

Alex P

I think those games do have something fundamental that they share.

Which is: they're about people who don't really know who they are.

Discovering themselves.

BESW

And that insecurity is fundamental to the psychotic pony experience, too.

Ponies break when something happens which they don't know how to handle: rejection, bullying, failing to be excellent...

They resolve when they learn how to deal with that kind of situation.

Hmmm.

So a pony starts play with a small selection of "moves" (probably something Do-like about how they respond to situations), and when they run into a situation where they don't have a move which makes sense use... they snap.

Snapping provides them with moves that do make sense to use, but are divisive and antagonistic.

Alex P

3:13 AM

I think you can accomplish that by creating some "moves" that are, well, full of bad consequences.

They're functionally always available but seldom desirable if you have other tools.

BESW

Yeah...

And the point of the game is to learn more moves.

Becoming more emotionally well-rounded by having more ways you can react to problems.

oooer.

Okay, so brainstorming: there are a total number of positive moves, X.

These moves are divided equally amongst the players, so that everypony has at least one move but nopony has the same move as any other pony.

Each pony also gets a negative move.

And the game is about teaching each other the positive moves you know. If you run into a situation you don't have a positive move for, you use your negative move instead.

If the Elements of Harmony were less... random... I'd use them for the moves.

I'd run it Flying Temple style, drawing stones and automatically succeeding on the action you get.

Alex P

So, if you're interested in using "moves" in AW/DW/MH style, there's a discussion about what they really do that's worth having. I don't think I'm quite equipped to have that discussion from the teaching end, though.

BESW

But sometimes the action the stones give you isn't available to you, so you use your negative move instead.

@AlexP If you can find an article or something, I'd be appreciative.

I may have to shell out for Monsterhearts, too.

Alex P

PDF's a pretty reasonable $10.

I can give you some more excerpts if you're on the fence about whether you care for it or not.

I think this is, like, the basic "moves" article.

I also got my game-designing friend (not affiliated with AW/MH/&c. directly) to chime in about it over IM:

> They're a way to introduce fruitful asymmetry to your mechanics.

> So, if this is a thing where you, as the game designer, want some say on how things will go, make a move. if you don't really care how they sort out climbing sheer surfaces, then don't make a move—let the MC sort it out in the moment with rulings. if you, as the game designer, do care, then make a move—when you climb a sheer surface, tell the MC who you're thinking of as you do it, and they'll tell you one or two things you drop—to make up a weird (and bad) example.

BESW

3:29 AM

@AlexP That needs unpacking for me.

Alex P

> But the asymmetry is this: your moves can be very different.
> It's not all "roll +stat, three kinds of outcomes."
> It's "what is the right little conversation to have about this moment, with what questions and judgment calls and possibly what randomness?"

My viewpoint on it is that they're pre-packaged "stakes" for situations.

You're saying "This is the kind of game where a violent conflict is always messy."

BESW

Ah.

Alex P

I like them because they make me feel like I can run and play games I otherwise wouldn't quite have the, like, genre background to run.

BESW

makes sense.

Alex P

On the other hand, I'm a bit intimidated by AW because the GM can just kinda do so much.

Oddly I feel that way less about MH.

BESW

3:40 AM

I'm going to have to sit on this for a while. I think it's key.

Monsterhearts doesn't look like a game I'd actually want to play, though.

Alex P

Just, like, subject-matter-wise?

BESW

Yeah.

I don't think I have the highschool PTSD necessary to really identify with it.

Alex P

It's not quite PTSD.

Like, okay, Buffy or Vampire Diaries.

I didn't exactly have a lot of my own teen drama growing up, but I can totally dig teen drama when you throw in sexy werewolves.

Inbar Rose

8:08 AM

Good Morning.

lisardggY

Indeed

BESW

8:22 AM

Oooh, Netflix has Les aventures extraordinaires d'Adèle Blanc-Sec on streaming!

[squint] "Because you liked Red Dwarf, you would like The X-Files."

Inbar Rose

At least you have netflix.

BESW

True enough. Until a couple years ago we only had the DVD service, and prior to that... Blockbuster.

lisardggY

Israeli cable companies realized a couple of years back that with torrenting being so easy, they can't really keep up with their regular policy of bringing in popular shows 3-4 years after their US airdates.

So there's been quite a marked improvement in that respect, to the point that the 4th season of Game of Thrones will be broadcast at the exact same time as the US broadcast, at 4:00 in the morning local time.

(And again, the evening after)

BESW

Cool.

lisardggY

Before that, pirate downloads were even more prevalent, because there was absolutely no legal way to watch a show you wanted. No broadcast, no VOD services, nothing.

BESW

8:38 AM

Here's a film review for ya: "Sure, we've all seen this story before, but have we seen it with 1,000 Peruvian extras in shiny silver space suits? I think not."

trogdor

9:04 AM

@BESW hey, that is almost close

they both are science fiction shows at any rate

the level of seriousness is markedly different, but what can you do

lisardggY

9:53 AM

So basically getting the genre right is as good as we're expecting Netflix recommendations to be?

BESW

10:11 AM

They're getting better, but I've put in nearly 300 films.

They've stopped pushing Tinkerbell, and now they think I should like Jack Black vehicles.

Inbar Rose

Looks like their recommendation algorithm could use an upgrade.

Or ten.

BESW

10:28 AM

Admittedly, my viewing habits may be... irregular.

My Little Pony, House of Cards, and Kolchak: the Night Stalker.

Inbar Rose

Doesn't matter - I think they are probably using a statistical analysis of your watching habits, which means everything is summed up and give a value in different categories, and since you have varied viewing habits - you end up matching a rank in a category that has nothing to do with you. They should use grouping analysis - where each item has other items in its group which get ranked up when you like one - and when an item gets enough ranks it shows up.

Zachiel

10:49 AM

@Metool welcome back

Metool

@Zachiel Thanks!

How's stuff?

Zachiel

Do you mean here in the chat or me?

(I'm in full analysis paralisis mode. The chat is fine and has an extensive backlog.)

Inbar Rose

@Zachiel Hurrah for backlog.

Zachiel

Summarizing what happened in the chat since Metool has been missing is way over my capabilities, especially since I've not been very partecipative, lately.

Zachiel

11:14 AM

@Adnan Command and Conquer: Generals and Red Alert generally classify as RTS (real time strategy) games, while DotA is a MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena). To classify as a cRPG (computer role playing game) you should have control of one hero or maybe a small group of ones, with a character sheet made up by different stats you can usually tinker with. You also need the characters to be the protagonists of a story you play through during the game

(most famous examples are the Neverwinter Nights games, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, the various Final Fantasy). DotA has no story, it's just an arena. Generals and Red Alert sport a story and main characters (in campaign mode only) but the game's focus is on tactical deployment of armies and resource management.

BESW

[applause] Well said!

Zachiel

MOBA as an acronym has been popularized by LoL (league of legends, a DotA-like game). Before that, it was called Tower Defense (and was usually a sub feature of some RTS games. DotA is born as a WarCraft III custom map inspired by a StarCraft map). By the way, DotA stands for Defense of the Ancients.

Some FPS (first person shooter) games come really close to cRPGs when their main focus is a narrative campaign. You usually want to trace the line where customizable stats show up, but the division is fuzzy. A game where you have a character, no character stats but you can make story choices is quite the hybrid.

Professor Caprion

11:38 AM

Whee!

Oh, hey again, @Metool!

Metool

Heyo, @ProfessorCaprion!

Reverted the name change?

Professor Caprion

@Metool Beyond reverted; I took out the "Loki" part entirely. Too many Hiddleston fangirls, I need to protect myself.

Metool

11:54 AM

Well then, alright.

Professor Caprion

How have you been? :)

Adnan

12:07 PM

Whoa! Thanks a lot, @Zachiel! That was a very interesting read. Hopefully, now I won't be confused anymore when my gamer friends talk about that.

Metool

I've been well, for the most part.

BESW

12:26 PM

Oh, @Metool, I have a new set of concepts for my pony system.

How familiar are you with *World games, like Dungeon World?

I want to come up with a limited set of "moves" that represent positive ways to deal with challenging situations. I'd base them on the Elements of Harmony if the Elements weren't so random.

Inbar Rose

@Zachiel Very well said.

Metool

@BESW I have to say, not very, but I got the gist earlier.

BESW

I'm putting together a draft, but without actual moves...

doppelgreener

12:48 PM

Keep calm: Ignore it and attempt to maintain sanity. Effect: Take a hit of 1 to sanity, and negate any other effect.

BESW

heheh.

Instead of a sanity stat, I'm going to use Monsterheart's "limit break"-ish concept.

doppelgreener

How's that work?

BESW

In my game, ponies will have a limited number of positive ways they can respond to a situation. When they hit a situation they don't have a positive response for, they snap.

When you snap, you use a negative response. It's powerful and disunifying.

The goal of the story, and the way you level up, is to learn new positive ways to respond to situations.

Inbar Rose

So is there an end-game?

What happens if you learn all the moves?

BESW

Retire the character, basically: your pony's grown up.

doppelgreener

12:53 PM

@BESW That is a cool way of growing a character. :D

Inbar Rose

And so say I was playing this game, how many sessions of average session length would it take until this happens? (And what is the average session length)

BESW

The conceit is inspired by Flying Temple: the PCs are a kind of "boy scout" troupe selected by the Princesses to travel Equestria and help ponies in need, and in the process gain new emotional skills themselves.

doppelgreener

Is that the entirety of limit break? Or are there times you could be forced to use a negative response even when a positive one is available?

BESW

@InbarRose Sessions would be pretty short, and it would depends on how many players there are. I'm imagining that you start play with the positive moves divided evenly among the players, so if there are six moves and three players each pony starts with two.

@JonathanHobbs Yes, that's something I'm looking at incorporating.

Inbar Rose

So - mechanically each time you play there are the same responses each time... not much replayability.

BESW

12:55 PM

@InbarRose I'm working on it, but there's more to the system than that.

Inbar Rose

I am sure there is.

I am just trying to shake the tree so any lose branches fall off and you can work on making them stronger.

BESW

Ponies are also defined by cutie marks and race (unicorn/pegasus/earth), as well as their negative moves.

I'm thinking that cutie marks and race give extra options for controlling your moves when you're doing something related to them.

Inbar Rose

I have a question (sorry if it's silly) but since ponies don't really have hands... how much "interaction" will there be with the world?

doppelgreener

@BESW Natural fallback positive ways to respond to situations within their comfort zone. Natural negative ways to respond to situations distinctly opposite it.

Inbar Rose

You could have a list of "personalities"

doppelgreener

12:58 PM

The natural positive responses are not as good as many more situational responses. The natural negative responses are much worse than the situational negative responses.

Inbar Rose

Like... "Curious", "Playful", "Hopeful", etc

BESW

@InbarRose Shhh. Ponies are generally treated as if their hooves are hands, and we don't question it.

Inbar Rose

@BESW Ha, okay. :P

BESW

►

@JonathanHobbs I'm thinking about a variant on Flying Temple's draw-three-stones mechanic for action determination, with "is your pony happy/unhappy?" or "comfortable/uncomfortable?" replacing "in trouble/not in trouble?"

wax eagle

@BESW elegant

doppelgreener

1:04 PM

@BESW varying from all bad stones to all good stones?

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Something like that.

One idea is that while your chosen move always succeeds, whether or not it causes trouble for others can change.

The goal, remember, is to tell stories about ponies getting out of their depth, freaking, causing lots of trouble, and then quickly and totally recovering because of help from their friends.

doppelgreener

@BESW Or for yourself! Mingle: If you draw three white stones, you've made a lot of friends. If you draw three black stones, you've still mingled, but you've kinda weirded everyone out.

wax eagle

@BESW would you retain the destiny mechanic?

Aaron

Morning

BESW

@waxeagle I am considering that.

Not sure how to implement, though, so it's currently just a loose thread.

wax eagle

1:08 PM

@JonathanHobbs in Do at least, which stones you keep doesn't matter except for re: destiny

doppelgreener

SO MANY MECHANICS and yet i have to go hang up clothes. back soon. I would like to hear more about this at least!

BESW

@JonathanHobbs In Temple, the number of stones is important immediately, while the colour only matters at the end of the session.

@Aaron @Phil Hi.

Phil

o/

Professor Caprion

1:29 PM

@Phil \o

BESW

/)

doppelgreener

º\

əɹəɥ ɯoɹɟ uʍop əɯ ʇəƃ

Inbar Rose

Erm. Your're so high that you are upside down?

Joshua Aslan Smith

yo

wax eagle

hiya

Lord_Gareth

1:50 PM

So who started a party in here and didn't invite me?

Metool

@Lord_Gareth Sorry.

Joshua Aslan Smith

cue beastie boys

Inbar Rose

@Lord_Gareth Oh, what tipped you off? The giant balloons? The fanfare? The lines of buses carrying celebrities that goes around the corner?

doppelgreener

Oh no. I have completely mistaken a smart casual shirt for a business shirt and run out of clean business shirts.

lisardggY

Hey, cool. Buses.

Lord_Gareth

1:52 PM

@BESW Hey I figured out the Catalyst Consulting thing.

Joshua Aslan Smith

so feeling this out before I decide to post a meta about it:

What do you folks think about downvoting creating a pop-up similar to when you flag something, but instead its a form fillable box that is a required comment on the answer you are downvoting

lisardggY

I seem to recall reading similar discussions in some meta site or another.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I just noticed users asking why the down votes without comments and thought about how its an accepted custom and/or sort of a best practice for us when we downvote

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Catalyst is the bossman's personal company and is not related to gaming; you'd be doing your project for Dreamscarred

Inbar Rose

@JonathanHobbs That is bad.

lisardggY

1:54 PM

For one thing, I don't think you want to discourage downvoting more than the current -1 rep does. If you require a comment, many will say "screw it" and not downvote.

Downvoting is a good thing, when used properly.

Inbar Rose

@JoshuaAslanSmith This has been discussed a few times over on SO I recall. Short answer: No.

lisardggY

479

Q: Encouraging people to explain downvotes

I used to get "upset" (though that is too strong a term) when I got downvoted without comment. If my answer isn't good enough then I'd like to know why. Not only does it improve the answer for the OP but it improves my knowledge too. Where the down-vote has been explained I've found it useful & ...

doppelgreener

@JoshuaAslanSmith The idea of required comments with downvoting has come up a thousand times

That is unlikely to be an exaggeration

The reason against it can be summarised as: "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"

5

(If people don't want to leave a constructive comment, you're not going to get one)

lisardggY

@JonathanHobbs Exactly, as the second answer there shows, you'll just get a bunch of downvotes with comments like "bahhhh".

Inbar Rose

Or just -1 :P

BESW

1:58 PM

Yeah, you're not going to get constructive comments, you're just going to get noise.

Often there's no comment to be left, because frankly it's just a bad answer which doesn't violate any of the guidelines.

wax eagle

@JonathanHobbs it literally appears in every beta at least once, so taht's well over 100

BESW

There's no way to improve it without turning it into a totally different answer, but it doesn't meet any of the criteria for deletion, so downvoting without commenting is appropriate because comments are for improving posts, not for sating peoples' need to have things explained to them.

wax eagle

also sometimes it's impossible to comment without violating Thumper's law

BESW

And then imagine if every downvote had to have a comment associated with it, so you get five nearly-identical "your answer is bad and you should feel bad" messages in your inbox.

That's not going to make people happy about being SE citizens.

wax eagle

no. If they required action though, likely upvoting the existing comment would be sufficient

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:06 PM

hahaha

you should feel bad

is the best part of this, thanks for the response

I figured that either here or on main SO it had come up before

Its just something that came up in class recently going over the design of a similar system and it made me think about how rpg.se doesnt have it

Lord_Gareth

@BESW - For reasons I don't comprehend I continue to accidentally refer to you/think of you as female

BESW

@Lord_Gareth I am frequently mistaken for female on the Internet.

And, really, on the Internet it doesn't matter. I've occasionally obscured my gender on purpose to make a point.

Inbar Rose

@BESW "I've occasionally obscured my gender on purpose to make a point" That is such a succinct and vague sentence all at once. Beautiful. :P

BESW

@InbarRose [bow]

Lord_Gareth

Newton's Law of the Road
"The object with more mass has the right-of-way."

3

BESW

2:11 PM

Especially on WoW, where I ran into a lot of Weird Gender Baggage from other players and I was regularly mistaken for female, I made a point of neither confirming nor denying.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Wait...weird gender baggage? On WoW?

BESW

@Lord_Gareth Yes.

Lord_Gareth

(AFK shower but please explain)

Inbar Rose

I am not entirely sure but I believe that English is entirely gender neutral, though certain objects are anthropomorphized with genders.

So it's sometimes hard for foreigners to know - and often the language seems feminine, I have noticed among mostly Germanic people that they tend towards assuming females are talking to them.

wax eagle

@InbarRose aye, we don't do gendered nouns, but we also don't really have neuter pronouns either

BESW

2:13 PM

@Lord_Gareth Eh, pretty typical stuff about No Girls on the Internet, giving random gifts to people with female avatars, etc.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I think of @besw as the dude in his avatar lol

BESW

@InbarRose "How can you tell if a truck is a he or a she?" "The girl trucks have more chrome."

Zachiel

@BESW Uhmmmm... who have I seen doing exactly this in this very chat, now? [mumbles]

Lord_Gareth

Actually, first - @BESW - if you haven't checked out RWBY yet, you really should. The current 16 episodes are still available for free on Roosterteeth's website, and in terms of tone and themes it's very much like My Little Pony

wax eagle

there are several people on the stack who I picture as female even though I know they are male. BESW is often one of them (others include fellow mods on C.SE and G.SE)

Lord_Gareth

2:14 PM

In that it portrays an upbeat, bright world where problems are solved through teamwork and friendship

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith Amusingly, my raiding guild, upon hearing me speak in voice chat, decided I was probably someone rather like that picture.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle Motherly behavior?

Zachiel

@Lord_Gareth and weapons

Lord_Gareth

Obviously the swords and explosions do change the tone somewhat

But they don't compromise it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw yeah I mean you've talked about your real life that I know that such a mental image is false, but it persists

wax eagle

2:15 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith I think it's more screennames and my immediate mental associations.

Lord_Gareth

@Zachiel Nah, the weapons are just a Friendship Delivery System

5

Zachiel

Or my avatar?

Lord_Gareth

They will love and tolerate the shit out of you.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw though I'd like to imagine the spirit/affectation of the person in the art in your avatar is like you or one you self-identify with at least

Zachiel

@Lord_Gareth the scythe is beyond awesome

wax eagle

2:16 PM

though sometimes behavior helps. For instance BESW often plays the role of den mother here. That fuels the characterization, even if it's not accurate.

Metool

Oh wow.

Inbar Rose

@waxeagle True.

Metool

What time is it in Japan?

Zachiel

@Metool Here s/he is!

XD

Metool

My lobby just instantly filled up with Japanese players.

Inbar Rose

2:16 PM

@Metool The fact that you typed that up here instead of into a google search bar is beyond me.

Aaron

Metool!

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle exactly, I could totally see someone viewing BESW as female because his behavior in RPG.SE chat fits western mother archetypes

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith Oh, absolutely. The Bookworm is very much my mental avatar.

wax eagle

which means that we're more associating people not with their actual biological genders, but with our own foregone conclusions of what roles the various genders tend to play in our society and how people fulfill those roles on the internet

Zachiel

@InbarRose hahahahaha

Lord_Gareth

2:17 PM

@BESW - You can also snag the RWBY DVD from Walmart for slightly less than $10 USD.

But now I shower!

Metool

Huh, quarter past eleven...

Lord_Gareth

Gotta get all of this virgin blood off of me somehow. Paizo's forum has convinced me that since I care about mechanics I've got an honor-bound duty to hack out the hearts of the pure and burn them over coals.

BESW

@waxeagle In real life, I'm often asked if I'm gay, for similar reasons.

Aaron

@Metool Hey are you back or just back for a bit?

Metool

@Aaron My PC's back up.

Aaron

2:21 PM

@Metool Ahh. Ok.

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith Do Western mother stereotypes include going off on long tangential lectures about literary tropes?

Aaron

Well I am ready with the campaign when you are.

Inbar Rose

@BESW No. But they should.

Zachiel

@Lord_Gareth I'm glad my heart has already been burned

BESW

I mean, my mother does.

Inbar Rose

2:23 PM

@BESW That explains a lot. PLUS it is awesome.

BESW

@InbarRose My mother is an English composition professor at the local university. She has degrees in math and reading education, and in creative non-fiction, she's a respected watercolourist, and she's probably nerdier than I am.

wax eagle

@BESW no, but my guess is that a lot of us learned a lot more about literature from our moms than our dads.

BESW

@waxeagle My father taught me the scientific names of reef creatures, and he read both Jonathan Livingston Seagull and The Hobbit to me at a tender and influential age.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@BESW not your words so much as your actions attempting to foster good behavior and withold judgement

BESW

> O SON OF DUST! Verily I say unto thee: Of all men the most negligent is he that disputeth idly and seeketh to advance himself over his brother. Say, O brethren! Let deeds, not words, be your adorning. [source]

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:30 PM

@waxeagle Single parent home for me so I miss out on a lot of that stuff simply because Im not aware of it existing though I know intellectually it exists for other people.

Zachiel

@JoshuaAslanSmith Uhm, wait, if that's the tropes of being female in the western civilization... which kind of women have I met? O.o

BESW

@Zachiel Women who defy stereotypes?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Zachiel not female but motherly

Zachiel

@JoshuaAslanSmith ooooh, ok, I feel relieved now

@BESW Me thinks that's cool

Joshua Aslan Smith

Simply the phrase Western Female Gender Expectations has a lot going on

Zachiel

2:34 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith Yeah, lots of generalization in there

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith aye

hugely subjective

Zachiel

Allow me one moment to be sad. I just got told the main town of the district I live in is the Italian city where girls are less easy.

That might explain many (other) things

wax eagle

@Zachiel that's a good thing, right?

:)

Zachiel

Maybe less easy is not the right way to say what I needed to translate. What's the opposite of being easy?

Inbar Rose

Being hard? badum tiss

wax eagle

2:37 PM

@InbarRose beat me to the rimshot

Inbar Rose

@waxeagle Somehow using the word "rimshot" really made that dirtier than I intended..

BESW

...I walk away for three minutes.

wax eagle

see!

Zachiel

"You know what else is hard?" -the Todd

Inbar Rose

@BESW Such a mom...

Next you will warn us that it always ends with someone losing an eye.

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:39 PM

So for example when I generally say the West of tend to thing more Anglo American than traditional western society because mainland europe has changed so much in the last 100 years.

Zachiel

(and I'm stopping there, of course)

BESW

"Boys! Don't make me come over there and wash your keyboards out with soap!"

Joshua Aslan Smith

what a great movie

Aaron

@BESW For some that might be tempting. Some people probably need it XD

Inbar Rose

@BESW Promise? :P

wax eagle

2:40 PM

@Aaron yeah, my desk keyboard is grody

hahahaha

xkcd ... best :)

@InbarRose yeah, there's already one for close to every situation, and he just keeps making them more and more applicable

Inbar Rose

My favorite one:

I wrote 20 short programs in Python yesterday. It was wonderful. Perl, I'm leaving you.

Can you tell I am a Python dev? :P

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:43 PM

hahha

programing language wars, so funny

wax eagle

I need to learn Python

Inbar Rose

@waxeagle Come join us in the Python Chat room. We can help you!

BESW

2

wax eagle

lol, maybe when I get some free time (tm)

Inbar Rose

The Python Chat room is my other online chat room home.

BESW

2:46 PM

@waxeagle That'll probably be soon.

Inbar Rose

(read: never)

wax eagle

@InbarRose I'm already in way to many chat rooms

BESW

I have something like seven "favourite" chats here.

wax eagle

@InbarRose maybe whenever I get around to pluggin my pi in

BESW

Speaking of motherly things, it's past my bedtime.

Goodnight!

Inbar Rose

2:49 PM

Gnight.

wax eagle

good night!

BESW

Remember to say "please" and "thank you" and to wash behind your ears.

Inbar Rose

Thank you, now go to sleep please. [washes behind ears]

DampeS8N

3:24 PM

I should have changed my gravatar months ago.

Aaron

4:32 PM

So I know of the class that is built around killing your doppelgangers in other dimensions but if you don't have that class if you kill your doppelganger is there any bonuses that would be reasonable to get aside from extra xp?

DampeS8N

4:51 PM

@Aaron You get a copy of The One on DVD

Aaron

@DampeS8N The Jet Li movie?

DampeS8N

@Aaron Yes "A sheriff's deputy fights an alternate universe version of himself who grows stronger with each alternate self he kills."

Aaron

@DampeS8N Yea. I haven't seen it but I know what it's about.

You changed your icon.

DampeS8N

@Aaron I did!

Aaron

Hello, @Murch

Murch

4:58 PM

@Aaron Hi Aaron :)

wax eagle

5:22 PM

hiya @Murch

Zachiel

6:01 PM

Mh, I have a general geekery culture question for you. How do you call those guys that pretend that the old edition of a game was better, just because being a grognard is cool? Was it hipsters?

Aaron

@Zachiel I think in any culture the people who pretend the old edition was cool are labeled as hipsters.

lisardggY

No, I think hipsters are those who insist that anything not-mainstream is better by virtue of not being mainstream.

Insisting that older is better is a different subgroup.

Oh, wait. You're talking about people who don't really prefer old-school gaming, but just adopt the grognard persona because it's cool?

Is that a thing?

Zachiel

I don't really know why he does that but... wathever. We are just writing a satyrical pampleth for this guy's graduation.

I don't think he's a grognard, I guess he just likes thing to be done the way they were created (I think I'm telling him about "why Dragonlance ruined D&D", sicne he does not like sandbox)

Alex P

6:21 PM

If you're just joking around, "hipster" fits.

"D&D's earlier work is the best, man. Before they really sold out to the mainstream, you know?"

3

"Dungeons just sound better on vinyl."

Professor Caprion

Back in my day, if you had a -30 Comliness, you could seduce a BLACK DRAGON.

Joshua Aslan Smith

6:44 PM

@lisardggY thats simply a troll

Zachiel