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5:00 AM
It's just a disguised popularity contest.
SE only works because there are criteria by which a submission can be evaluated.
 
I disagree. Giant in the Playground's community is no less diverse than here and yet quality work still shines through in the democratic format
There hasn't been a single PrC that won that I didn't agree was quality work even if I didn't vote for it
(Still bitter about the Children of the Mausoleum losing their edition of the contest, though)
 
Mmm. I'm not saying that quality won't get voted for.
But the context gets votes just as much as the content in these things, unless there are clear criteria for evaluation.
 
Asplain
 
FATE questions get fewer views than 3.5 questions, and a monk homebrew is going to get more attention than an alchemist homebrew for reasons having nothing to do with quality.
Less attention = fewer votes in both cases, regardless of quality.
The winners would be narrowed down to those who chose the most popular topics, and yes--within that category quality would rise to the top.
But superior quality in unpopular areas doesn't rise as far in a democratic system.
 
Not necessarily. Contest themes tend to be, ah, thematic. "Fallen heroes" or "blindness" or "music". Sometimes we see a mechanical theme like "In-house spellcasting" or that kind of thing
 
5:05 AM
You can moderate this one of two ways, as I see it:
 
@Lord_Gareth Have you posted this on meta?
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Neither of us have, no
 
@Lord_Gareth so... post it on meta?
 
a) drastically narrow down the context
b) lay down intensive and restrictive evaluative criteria
 
Contests can be fun, though I'm very very firmly against system-specific contests, especially for the argument-generator sub-genre.
 
5:07 AM
@Lord_Gareth Okay, so modeling blindness in FATE vs modeling blindness in 3.5 vs the same in Burning Wheel and Ars Magica. Which gets more attention?
(I want this idea to work, but... I don't see a way to do it that doesn't turn it into a "who can choose the most popular thing to work on" contest.)
 
@BESW - Okay, to give you an idea: back when I was hosting the base class contest, I had a theme of "Light". One guy did a theme based on weight manipulation
With a bunch of abilities that could make stuff lighter.
 
That's a "base class contest," and therefore has system and mechanical restrictions built into it.
 
And we'd need to have system and mechanical restrictions in any given contest or there wouldn't be a way to make viable comparisons.
 
4 mins ago, by Brian Ballsun-Stanton
Contests can be fun, though I'm very very firmly against system-specific contests, especially for the argument-generator sub-genre.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton RPGs aren't like artwork. Different systems can't be compared side by side when it comes to homebrew.
A system-agnostic homebrew contest isn't a pipe dream, it's insanity
 
5:12 AM
@Lord_Gareth That's kinda what we're saying.
 
I'm not seeing why a system-specific contest or contest(s) should be a problem, @BESW.
 
The GitP contests are feasible because that community accepts delineations and limits that cannot hold in rpgse without ostracizing community members.
 
I don't see it as ostracism. We may need to spend some time jiggering things so we don't see a contest flood, certainly.
But no, not everyone plays every system. Plenty of systems see representation here. I see no reason they can't have contests of their own.
Admittedly setting a round robin up would be a bit of a conceptual difficulty
But I suppose that's what a meta post would be for
 
"Hi, I only play the old Doctor Who RPG from the 80s. I've been a member for ten months and I don't do much because DWRPG isn't too popular, but I try to contribute whenever I can! I do a lot of work on formatting and tag edits, because that's something I can help with regardless of system.
I'd like to participate in the anniversary celebrations, but even though I made my own DWRPG contest and entered in it... nobody else did."
An extreme example, but you get the point.
 
And the rest of the site should not have contests because obscure systems exist?
[Cocks an eyebrow]
 
5:19 AM
I'm say "How can we do this?"
 
Well, obviously we start by making the meta post but I want to have a solid proposition first
 
Like I said, I want it to work. But I think it would be terribly irresponsible and go against the ethos of the site if we just ignored the idea that this might not be all-inclusive.
If people are going to feel left out, we need to at least acknowledge it.
"We're sorry, please contribute to the best of your ability and give us ideas for how to better next time" would be a pathetically minimal start.
 
I'd say it's a hazard of the community, myself. Your Doctor Who poster would be up the creek with no paddle if he posted a question, after all
No other participants means no participant input
 
Yes, but he can participate meaningfully in the site anyway.
 
Aye, but a contest isn't a site function. It's a game.
It's not like we're telling him he can't edit tags
It's just like posting a question about GURPS if he knows nothing about GURPS
 
5:23 AM
Except that a question about GURPS isn't a site-wide celebration of an achievement he helped come about.
 
...You wanna run that by me again?
 
> we've been invited, by the powers that be, to celebrate a one year anniversary with a contest.
 
Umm...
I'm not proposing to celebrate jack with a contest
Congrats on the anniversary
[Pops a party cracker]
Didn't know until just now
 
Reeallly. Because context heavily implied otherwise, what with the previous bit of the chat before you started being Brian and I talking about contests to celebrate the anniversary, and then you come in and ping Brian about an idea for a contest.
Here, have a repeated link.
5
Q: One year anniversary contest?

Brian Ballsun-StantonSo, we've been invited, by the powers that be, to celebrate a one year anniversary with a contest. While other sites have had contests for "best user" and "unanswered question cleanup" ... we have 4 unanswered questions and a tightly knit community. What kind of contest should we run for our Ap...

 
[Looks]
Anyway, @KRyan started talking about this idea a few months ago, @BESW
I'm just flogging it again because I like homebrew
 
5:28 AM
Your timing was highly misleading, then.
 
@BESW - I like some of your suggestions. Might I also suggest something along the lines of "Improve an old answer,"?
 
Yeah, my list is very much just a handful of examples.
 
But yeah, no, this didn't have anything to do with that, and the anniversary contest should really be something meta
Not homebrew
 
Sorry, working on a not quite-million dollar grant application. Kidna distracted.
 
Hot damn man
 
5:35 AM
And yeah, if I fail this roll, I have to leave the country. So yeah. Weheeeee
 
Oooooouuuuuch
 
yeah. High stakes academia.
(well, 1.6 million if you use funny-math) ... we like funny math, it makes numbers bigger.
bleeeeeeeeeeeh
 
Well @BrianBallsun-Stanton, it turns out that what I was talking about is not what you and @BESW thought I was talking about.
 
Ah.
okay, that... makese more sensemaking
 
So, in that context
How would you feel about a monthly or bi-monthly homebrew contest?
 
5:41 AM
@Lord_Gareth That's a question for meta, mate.
Mods are executive branch, and judicial. Not... really legislative.
If the community wants one, we'll figure out how to make it happen.
 
Hrm. Then if I can figure out a proposal between @KRyan, myself, and anyone else who gives a damn you'll see a meta post
I don't suppose you still want to see this happen, @BESW?
 
@Lord_Gareth Why don't you suppose this?
 
[Grins widely]
Okay
So we need a proposal for how to do this without causing a contest flood
My basic idea
Is to find a way to round-robin it through various systems
 
6:09 AM
no idea how to arrange that though, @BESW. I mean, could we even make the various systems stand up to be counted?
 
I have no idea what might be possible.
 
@Lord_Gareth tags. Tags are good.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Asplain
 
6:14 AM
Not helpful. We'd need to know what systems have a large enough following to get a "contest slot", as it were
 
yes
@Lord_Gareth errr... yes? Look over each tag by popularity. If it's a system, add it to the list.
stop when you hit 50
 
That does beggar a question of if we can or should integrate similar systems. On GitP, for example, the Base/Prestige class contests are PF-enabled
Though PF stuff tends to not do as well, mostly because Paizo's standard is shoddy and inconsistent
 
[bails before the plane catches fire]
 
@BESW It's hard to make content that you can judge as balanced when Paizo won't set a standard
 
@Lord_Gareth beg, perhaps?
"beg a question" tends to be the standard rhetorical technique.
 
6:21 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton You are right, of course. Questions like, "Should the FATE and DFRPG contest be merged," can be left to the fans of those tags
 
@Lord_Gareth errr...
Sure....
I suggest promoting a contest for what you actually a) care about, and b) will think not make the site melt down.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Not that anyone uses it properly anymore...
 
@BESW ::muttermuttermutter::
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I think you could kill a Star Trek evil computer with that feedback loop.
 
@BESW ::very carefully observes Gareth's reactions::
"Do you feel your lights flashing?"
 
6:23 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton So you'd suggest that I flog a 3.X contest and if another system or system(s) wants in on the action we burn that bridge as we cross it?
 
@Lord_Gareth yep.
 
I can do that. It certainly simplifies things.
But what to host a contest about....
 
@Lord_Gareth Invent a third alignment pair along the z axis?
 
I would suggest it, but I'm afraid the Funky/Square axis has already won that prize forever and ever
 
Tigerlily Jones would approve.
 
6:32 AM
I mean, a PrC contest is obvious and always popular because they have so much thematic and mechanical potential from a design standpoint
The best have both
 
Five-level PrC, must be able to begin at level 6, theme... "blade"
 
Martial themes are pretty popular.
 
@BESW why not do an iron chef thingy?
 
Five-level is an odd limit, but it is a nice design challenge.
 
[makes a half-vampire vamp-slayer PrC]
 
6:34 AM
When the contest starts, we'll use the markov answer generator to find a theme
 
@Lord_Gareth It also reduces like likelihood of filler.
 
@BESW - Well, the thing is this: what would you say the essential difference between designing a 5-level PrC and a 10-level PrC is from a /thematic/ standpoint?
 
I've seen a lot of PrCs die to just plain needing to have a lot of extra stuff to fill the levels.
 
Which does not answer the question I asked. I'm familiar with the occurence of which you speak.
 
I'm not sure what the question is.
"Theme" is like Humpty Dumpty's "glory." It means just what you want it to mean.
 
6:39 AM
Well, alright. Here's the thing: a 5-level PrC is a short investment. Even if you refluff it, that PrC invests a relatively small investment of training, whereas if you invest ten levels in a PrC that's fully half or more of your heroic career
 
Aye. It's a "get in, get out, but make it memorable" thing.
 
So PrCs that explore themes or organizations with demanding or rich concepts can be longer
Whereas something like, "Fights with a scythe" only really deserves five levels
 
Also, many transformative classes should be five levels.
 
Yes
Geometer is a great example of a five-level class
So is Master Thrower
 
92
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6:40 AM
Elemental Savant ought to be.
 
I've forgotten how fun that thing is
 
@BESW No one ever accused WotC of consistently good design.
But if I set a five-level class as a criteria, I'm straight-up telling people to make something limited in scope. Five levels is a short period in which to get your theme across
One of my favorite PrCs I designed was a seven-level little beauty themed around autumn, the Dukes of the Last Light
 
Shouldn't a contest like this be limited in scope? Isn't that part of the point?
 
@Lord_Gareth Make it an uncommon number, limited in scope, unusual.
 
Creativity within boundaries.
 
6:43 AM
Start with a 3 level one.
"Articulate your concept. Get out."
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton [snerk]
 
Maybe, and maybe not. What I or @KRyan do or don't do will set the tone. The contests we hail from set a theme and give no restrictions beyond that. 3-level, 5-level, 10-level, there's even a few 14-level ones I've seen
If we open up with restrictions, that'll be expected. Is that bad? Maybe, maybe not
But it's something to consider
 
@Lord_Gareth Constraints are always useful for true creatitivity.
 
It's easier to remove restrictions than to add them, and Brian's right.
 
Otherwise you have to bloody storm your own ones and that takes forever.
::mutter::
Takes forever to get to norming.
 
6:45 AM
As a design professional, some of my best work is done when I'm trying to make something good in spite of (or to spite) the client.
 
@BESW Another good point, but I've seen some great work come out of the open contests too.
Still, something to consider.
 
@Lord_Gareth [sigh] Suggesting that boundaries encourage creativity is not the same as suggesting that a lack of boundaries inhibits creativity.
"If A then B" does not imply "if B then A."
Nor does it imply "if not B then not A."
Or any other of the classical false equivalencies.
 
I was making a note, not an objection
 
Sorry, that's the third or fourth time today that someone's hit me with "But sometimes the conditions you're trying to create happen outside the environment you're using to create them."
 
[Ponders an opening theme]
Gishing is really popular, of course
 
6:50 AM
@Lord_Gareth make it iron chef style
at start of thingy?
don't announce theme yet
 
A five-level gish PrC would be very nearly unprecedented....
 
What about a quote?
 
And certainly don't choose your own
Quotes from literature are always fun, yes.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton If I'm hosting I can't participate!
 
@Lord_Gareth bullshit.
You're proposing the bloody thing
the site's hosting it
 
6:52 AM
And? The host holds the tiebreaker vote if one is necessary and also slings props at a PrC of exceptional quality as a sort of kudos prize
 
@Lord_Gareth Especially if the theme is chosen randomly or communally, no reason you can't participate.
 
Yes.... But there is no "tiebreaker" vote here.
 
@Lord_Gareth That's GitP standards, not rpgse standards.
 
If you ask us to host a contest we will host it
the mods
 
Hrm
 
6:52 AM
There are no rpgse standards yet for this, so don't go inventing rituals yet.
 
We will then perform whatever analysis is necessary to hand out real prizes.
So propose a methodology
And I think "two random quotes" is a really good methodology for theme
 
Well there's the two obvious prizes of "Best fluff" and "Best mechanics"
 
makes it fair, gives 2 choices, and some interesting juxtaposition possibilities
@Lord_Gareth so propose them.
 
[Nods]
 
[grin] Or, I would happily step aside from participating if I got to choose the quotes.
 
6:54 AM
@BESW Mine!
Mainly because I've got no interest in participating, but the mods will almost certainly judge... and well..
::rubs hands gleefully::
 
Oh be kind for the first one.
I almost feel reluctant to move without @KRyan since this was his proposal to begin with.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton The Finding Nemo seagulls' "Mine?" would be a good quote.
 
@Lord_Gareth ::grins::
Oh, I shall be kind. And classical. Even.
Something appropriately... greek, methinks. It's useful hanging out with historians and ancient scholars.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton The first thing that came to mind was "Is this a dagger I see before me, the handle to my hand?"
 
@BESW The first one that came to my mind was more Dark Ages and one that is often used to great effect.
 
6:56 AM
Mmmm
 
"No man is an island. Just as the continent of Europe is diminished by each clod of soil that washes into the sea, so is mankind diminished with each departing soul. Therefore send not to know for whom the bell tolls - it tolls for thee."
 
"I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another."
 
@Lord_Gareth Hey, look. Someone who would recognize the punchline in my second-favorite shaggy dog story.
 
"He knew the things that were and the things that would be and the things that had been before."
Starting with Homer and working uptime from there :)
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton "When I looked for good, then evil came unto me, and where I waited for light, there came darkness. My bowels boiled and rested not; the days of affliction prevented me. I went mourning without the sun; I stood up, and I cried in the congregation. I am the brother to dragons, and the companion to owls. My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burnt with heat. My harp also is tuned to mourning, and my voice into the organ of them that weep."
 
6:59 AM
@Lord_Gareth Fun stuff.
 
"Finders keepers, loozers bleeders!"
...sorry.
 
But yes. Provide 2 or 3 quotes..
actually, I'd frame it as "each mod tosses a quote into the pile"
And then well... we see what happens
This also means you get to play. Which is good
 
That passage is still one of the most heart-breaking portraits of despair I have ever read.
I'll go ahead and move now, and credit @KRyan with the inspiration and his work with the initial research on art.'s contest(s)
 
@Lord_Gareth In all seriousness, I'd go for something pithier than those paragraphs.
 
Oh definitely
I'm just a paragraph kind of quoter
 
7:02 AM
A good single line packs a lot more punch and leaves a lot more for the builder to fill in.
 
Mmmhmm. "Evil gains work their punishment." "Even a blind man may wreak havoc with a sharpened sword."
 
Eh, nothing quite so pointed [hah].
Be esoteric, something that has a lot of room for interpretation.
 
Aye
It's late at night where I am
Something like Ben Franklin's quote, "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
 
For what I am about to do....
::whimpers::
 
Or be obscure.
 
7:06 AM
multivalued attributes are no much fun.
 
"If it were a bet you wouldn’t take it."
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Should I attempt to phrase this as a question or just as a proposal?
I mean, at least one mod (you) is involved already
 
@Lord_Gareth proposal
 
"A sort of universal uncle."
Oh, man. "I get a little sick of murder, but I think it's worth it."
 
7:19 AM
0
Q: Prestige Class Contest Proposal

Lord_GarethAfter observing and participating in some discussions between @KRyan and other posters, I've come to believe that the Stackexchange format is superb for hosting constests whose winners are resolved democratically. Homebrew is a wonderful part of the RPG community, and homebrew contests can help g...

HAVE AT IT
And now bedtime
Hopefully I don't get locked while I sleep
 
Goodnight, nobody.
@Lord_Gareth I have no idea.
Chat?
@MartinSojka Hi!
 
7:58 AM
@LitheOhm Hey.
Re: the dissonant player, if he's truly being so selfish than I'd support SSD's verdict. But it doesn't sound like anyone's made a systematic attempt to get down to what's actually the problem and try to work it out, and until that happens tossing him out seems lazy and self-serving on the part of the rest of the group.
Hanlon's Razor and all that; I'm inclined to think he just doesn't know how to deal with or articulate his problems, rather than that he's deliberately a game-ruining jerk.
 
8:23 AM
3
Q: Prestige Class Contest Proposal

Lord_GarethAfter observing and participating in some discussions between @KRyan and other posters, I've come to believe that the Stackexchange format is superb for hosting constests whose winners are resolved democratically. Homebrew is a wonderful part of the RPG community, and homebrew contests can help g...

 
You know, I'm starting to suspect that @TheOracle didn't used to be Batgirl.
 
9:13 AM
Sigh, how to get back to RPG-ing?
 
@MaurycyZarzycki Why ever stopping?
 
@MartinSojka Hmm, I think it's because of a broken friendship
My girlfriend and her friend had a couple of fights and the three of us had a really fun group
And now the friendship is no more - so is the gaming group
 
I guess I have it easier. Me and both of my brothers are role-playing from back before we knew role-playing had a name. :)
 
@MartinSojka I hope you don't mind me asking, but are you from Poland?
 
As people move on, so are the means of communication - nowadays it's often that we play via chat - but I'm always ready and eager to assume a role or tell a story made up on the spot with the input from the others around, even if it's just with my niece and her toys. :)
@MaurycyZarzycki Imielin, Silesian Voivodship.
 
9:22 AM
I am on the other side of Poland - near Trojmiasto :)
Finding players is also troublesome, I've found three of them nearby but it's nearly impossible to find time
 
The pains of growing up. :) Try local RPG conventions - no idea what they might be around your place, but in general it's a good place to start.
 
Rob
Ey up
 
I ain't no big fan of conventions
And there is also the problem of coming up with a campaign and sessions, since I am a born GM
There are some clubs though, maybe I'll look into it more
 
 
2 hours later…
11:55 AM
Sometimes I think this whole SO/SE QA format could use a "Community selected answer" concept.
 
Isn't that "got the most upvotes"?
 
"got the most upvotes" doesn't count when Mr. Community-bot decides to bump old questions.
 
Hm?
 
If you look at the following question
7
Q: Vassal-like dice for chat-sessions

ClaytonianI recently played a game on the board-game simulator Vassal that simulated the game's custom d6s. I'm wondering if anybody knows of a similar program (or even a module for vassal) that lets a group share customized die rolls with each other in real time over the internet. What I would prefer is...

It has no activity but is frontpage.
The community bot will bump old questions that are lacking answers.
 
That... oh, okay.
That's not the community bot bumping an old question.
That question got hit by a spambot.
 
The spam is deleted, but the spam answer bumped it up to the main page.
 
In any case, the community bot does bump old questions.
And a way to make questions answered would be a good tool to improve the bots random bumps.
 
Ah.
I was unaware that such a thing happened.
 
25
A: What can cause my question to be bumped?

Kyle CroninThe following will cause a question to be bumped: Addition of an answer Edit or retag of the question, or edit of an answer* ** Addition of a bounty (by anyone) Successful reopening (if the question was closed) The Community user will bump unanswered questions every hour. The number of unanswer...

Specifically: The Community user will bump unanswered questions every hour. The number of unanswered questions bumped per hour depends on the site: 4 per hour on Stack Overflow, 1 per hour on Meta, and 2 per hour on Super User and Server Fault.
 
@William'MindWorX'Mariager Which of those categories does rpgse fall under?
 
12:00 PM
Not sure. Just assuming since the sites are based on the same concept, they have similar behavior.
That assumption is reinforced by the random questions with only community activity. :)
 
@William'MindWorX'Mariager Well, some of those are artifacts of spam, Inappropriate Behavior, and the like being deleted.
Maybe you should make a meta post about this? Ask if the bump behavior is similar here, and (maybe as a followup question) how the quality of bumps can be improved.
 
12:20 PM
@MaurycyZarzycki I feel you on the "hard to find players" thing.
Living on a small island where the more typically RPG-likely populations are largely transient, and the RPG community as a whole is tiny yet fractured...
Game of Thrones reminds me of twitter a lot because there are 140 characters and terrible things are constantly happening
 
@BESW too true and the show is excellent for folks with ADD, just like twitter. there are 140 characters so you get like 30 second with each of them
 
heh. I haven't watched any of it.
Not my kind of thing, from what I've heard.
 
12:35 PM
@BESW fair enough
 
My friends are generally enthusiastic though.
I have little patience for Thousands of Characters.
 
@BESW it's an excellently produced show that's so far been true to the spirit of the books
 
@waxeagle That's really all one can expect.
 
@BESW yeah, it's hard to compress 800 pages into ~13 hours
 
[pokes The Dark is Rising film with a very pointy stick]
 
12:37 PM
@BESW lol, haven't watched it, wasn't Brenden Fraiser in that film?
 
No, but it had a number of people who really should've known better.
Two of my favorite British television actors utterly failed to lend The Seeker any gravitas at all despite their best efforts.
(Eccleston and McShane)
 
anyways, Martins books are well written, but I can understand folks who are impatient with the expanse of characters
 
It's not that there are so many, but that I have no patience for authors who can't keep a very firm rein on using them.
 
@BESW I liked Eccleston's run as the doctor
 
Specifically, I'm told that Martins is a serial offender of the "Won't tell you which character I'm talking about now, you'll have to figure it out from context" gimmick.
@waxeagle He's in my top four favorite Doctors (please don't make me put them in order, three of them are tied for second place).
And that's despite having some pretty pants plotting in his season.
The poor man had only 13 episodes, and three of them were about fart monsters.
 
12:42 PM
@BESW I don't know about that...I was mostly stuck on enjoying his varied narration styles.
@BESW very true :(
but his character and that season really set up the next three seasons very nicely
 
Shalka Doctor is my favorite, followed by Two, Nine, and Seven, with Eight pulling up in fourth place.
@waxeagle Yes, his season WAS crafted well as an introduction to the series, and Eccleston did a [ahem] fantastic job being alien where Tennent failed miserably and turned out to only be bipolar.
 
@BESW the ears helped him tremendously
 
@waxeagle ...yes.
I've shown you the Dead Ringers parody, right?
 
@BESW no, I'll have to check that out later :)
 
It's only a minute and a half. [grin]
 
12:48 PM
@BESW no headphones :(
 
Ah.
 
it's something I need to get around to fixing...but don't have an extra pair at home right now
 

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