Thank you, I do understand. I find it real hard to move on when the topic is about something obvious for me as a native speaker. And that thing which is obvious to me, and real, gets denied without any colour of evidence except a limited experience of a non-native speaker.

It's not the learners.

It's not the experienced English native speakers. It happens rarely actually.

And then see them run with it and fight it with all their strenght, even when someone else makes other contributions supporting the truth, even when research papers describe it.

I don't get it.

I don't know how many times I've schooled that user here.

Again and again.

For basically almost the 10 years I've been here.

So this is the moment I step away from the keyboard.

What you are describing is related to the major flaw of the StackExchange model: the most popular answer is the most visible one, even if it is not the most accurate one.

We all have to accept that this is not an expert website where only a bunch of "certified" people can answer the questions. It is a community where everyone participates using their own experience.

So yes, there will be approximations, and it is up to every individual how much of a fight they want to put up when they disagree.

But the most important is to remain friendly while doing so.

As long as downvotes remain insignificant in the reputation system (and they will always remain so), there is not much more that can be done with a system that penalizes the downvoter as hard as the downvoted person.

@escarlateadamantine i would be very sorry to see you go. it seems that my motivation to learn French is strongly correlate with the friendly support and help i can get on French.SE for the questions i have! (there have been periods of times, in the past, when the French.SE site had been stagnant)

especially, given that you come from a Québecois perspective (if i'm not mistaken), your perspective is especially useful to me. especially given the effort you put into your posts (e.g. trying to answer the question deeply)

i hear you when you say that wrong information answered frustrates you, and especially when they take a prescriptivist stance saying that your researched information must be incorrect, or implying that the French that you grew up with is substandard.

as a mere beginner in learning French, i want to say that you giving your contributions is what is most helpful to me. and don't worry: you don't need to win the war against "incorrect" information; other users saying "i think this information is incorrect" is enough to make me take it with a grain of salt. but the MOST helpful thing that i see is seeing your own actual answers.

actually (and maybe surprisingly) the "incorrect" contributions are helpful to me, in the sense that i get a different perspective on how to look at my question i asked -- sometimes an interesting translation is offered (even if incorrect), or sometimes i get a perspective on how prescriptivists view French from Québec (eg just how wrong "C'est correct" sounds to their ears). and sometimes these users say things that are genuinely helpful to me, and i'm glad that they share their thoughts!

just know that from my perspective as a learner, i have been benefitting from everyone's contributions, and the well-researched contributions (or ones that explain their logic in depth and step-by-step, with examples) tend to be especially helpful to me, and your contributions (from what i've seen on my questions) tend to lean heavily towards being high-effort answers. that hasn't been lost on me!

Thank you! I hear the both of you. I don't mind the "trial by fire" sort of thing and I've argued before that wrong answers may be useful to contrast with good answers etc.

Quebec French is a minority variety. There is a history. Minorities are an interest of mine. This minority also happens to be my people. And, as history shows, we will not be erased, denied and what we are will not be tampered with. We will stand. We will never surrender.

@escarlateadamantine Believe, no one roots for minorities more than I do. And that includes Québecois.

I don't have limited experience. I have a lot of it. I have a degree from the Sorbonne, so my French can hardly be described as "limited". Now, do I know all the tournures in Québecois? Of course not.

I would be the first to admit that. If that "rendu à l'hopital" phrase had been "signalé" as Québecois, I would never have said anything. Some French speaker from France even mentioned they had never heard it.

So, it wasn't only me.

@Lambie Please don't hide behind the French native speakers, it's entirely possible they don't know something about QC French but when they learn about it they adapt their content and enable it. I don't have to swear and provide my pedigree for that to happen.

Even their children know better.

As for rendu, it was pretty clear that the verb couldn't be used for handed over in that context, irrespective of any QC French specifics. But what specifics, that was in the damn TLFi

Arrivé à destination. Le temps de se dire bonjour (...) et nous partons, de manière à être rendus, à 1 heure moins le quart (...) au passage Verdeau (Verlaine, Corresp., t. 1, 1864, p. 14). Vous n'aviez qu'à prendre par la crête: vous étiez rendu en cinq minutes! (Vercel, Cap. Conan, 1934, p. 162).

cnrtl.fr/definition/rendue/1

Syntax coherence doesn't allow the semantics suggested by you and the d/v answer.

But that shouldn't detract us from the topic of ch't'à and the pronunciation of je parke, which you still argue ad nauseam today.

That anomaly that is how a QC French speaker like myself expresses themselves...

Please just stop.

I will not be subsumed nor adapt to make your knowledge valid.

I mean, this is a protracted discussion. After stating that the way the singer from the Cowboys Fr. says je parke is not French nor QC French or nothing, it's basically exactly like AmE, they're explained that it's different than with European French speakers in that it may be closer to English indeed.

But now the way the singer sings would be a one off and me and many speakers from Montreal and all, we don't speak like that.

According to Lambie. The thing is I pronounce je parke exactly like that singer in that context. This is not a one off. This is what they've been explained.

@escarlateadamantine Saying something is an anomaly is not negative. AT ALL. Une fois lexicalisés dans l'autre langue, les mots, surtout, les verbes sont prononcés selon cette langue-là. C'est une régle historique générale. ///"rendu à l'hopital" may be literary but you won't hear that in speech in France without the se, se rendre à l'hôpital.

Certainly more so than different and unique.

Yes, how it's reduced may vary.

This OP Lambie almost all their audio/video content is from Quebec or Canada.

It was made obvious many times over.

Do you think a singer from a popular music group in QC would make a song in French with English words pronounced somewhat like English out of the blue and that it would be popular?

There is such a thing as context. Not just the sentence.

Je comprends l'idée de la lexicalisation. Mais ce n'est pas un truc binaire qui réduit tout truc à pareil/pas pareil.

Une observation historique ne permet pas de comprendre une langue vivante dans toute son actualité.

Et la lexicalisation est un processus.

Le général n'anéantit pas le spécifique.

Je n'ai jamais dit cela. J'ai dit que si l'on écoute une texte parlé ou chanson, peu importe, on verra que dans l'étendu du texte, les mot d'emprunt, surtout, les verbes seront prononcés avec l'accent dominant. Donc, en France, par exemple, les drogués disent se shooter [à l'héroine] et c'est complètement francisé.

Cela est juste un exemple. Le contraire serait très bizarre.

Et puis pour les sports de glisse. Planche à roulettes: écoute comment ils disent en français skater. fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/skater#Fran%C3%A7ais En bas de la page.

Ils disent: squéter. C'est chouette, en fait.

@Lambie L'affirmation comme quoi on ne peut pas entendre rendu à l'hôpital en France sans la présence d'un se est inexacte. C'est une expression que l'on peut parfaitement encore lire ou entendre, et pas nécessairement dans un contexte littéraire.

Une fois rendu à l’hôpital Sainte-Périne, vous trouverez de nombreux transports en commun pour vous rendre dans n’importe quel quartier de Paris !