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Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
5:01 AM
What sucks is there isn't a daemon that does my whole job for me.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@MichaelHampton There is a daemon that will do your job for you... It is called linuxconf.
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
@ewwhite Makes me think it's a stripped down puppet.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@MichaelHampton You never used it?
 
rnxrx
rnxrx
the commercial side has been after the grand unified theory of network management forever, and their packages usually end up taking as much development and customization as just rolling your own
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
@ewwhite Nope. Looks ancient, too.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
5:11 AM
@MichaelHampton Ah, it was a joke... it was like an early Webmin.
in the Red Hat 6.2, 7.x and 8.0 days
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
I was starting to wonder about that.
@rnxrx I primarily manage other people's servers on contract, so there are things I can and can't get away with.
 
rnxrx
rnxrx
@MichaelHampton I hear you. I've just seen -so- much money dumped into this stuff over the years and the general maturity level doesn't seem to have advanced as much.
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
So, it turns out Zabbix has a fucking heart attack when plotting a chart with 96 seperate counters
 
rnxrx
rnxrx
It shit the bed pretty spectacularly when I was working with it.
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
@rnxrx I haven't really pushed it this far before. It's fine for our day to day operations, never really had an issue with it once you learn to deal with its shortcomings
(every product has shortcomings though, so nothing unique there)
 
rnxrx
rnxrx
5:17 AM
I seem to recall I had it pulling a lot of data from some heavily loaded 6500's and it managed to completely blitz a pretty hefty VM - to the point where I had to crash the box to rip out the startup
It wasn't too bad otherwise, though - and certainly a lot less attenuated than nagios
I'm more a network guy by background but I've always kind of liked munin.
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
5:35 AM
Windows account being locked out. No lockout events in event logs. CONSPIRACY!!
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
@WesleyDavid u rang?
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
@LucasKauffman Guns! Guns! Guns!
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
Yeeey what are we shooting?
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
@LucasKauffman Not kittens.
WE SHOOTIN' THE LIBR'LS! They be all "Universal Healthcare" this and "Koch brother" that.
Seriously, lobbyists are people too and they should be treated with preferential equality because AMERIKUH!
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
FUCK YEAH
dat obama guy was on Reddit yesterday
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
5:41 AM
@LucasKauffman Kenya Kenya Muslim Birth Papers Muhammad Jihad!!
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
Durka Durka Agoegoegoe tsjakalaka Muhammad Jihad
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
'Cause if you ain't fer us yer again' us and then.. well... you just kaint fool me again!
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
so who do you think will win
I can tell you one thing tho Obama sounds a lot like Osama to me!
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
@LucasKauffman Obama will win. I don't think many people doubt that.
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
well that romney guy is a bit of weirdo ain't he?
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
5:49 AM
@LucasKauffman Pretty much.
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
lol at my report review: "Lucas can you explain abbreviations like IIS and IDE, often people reading these reports will not know the difference between a toaster and a fileserver
 
Shane Madden
Shane Madden
@LucasKauffman They're not gonna understand any better when you expand the abbreviations..
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
"Then the people reading the reports should just do whatever I recommend."
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
if only
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
@rnxrx Hoolllyy shit, found out why Zabbix can't plot 96 counters on a chart; it maxed out PHP's memory limit per individual script
"Sure" I thought "easy, lets' up it to say, 64Mb/script". Turns out it was already at 128Mb/script
Bumped it up to 512Mb/script and now it's smooth sailing
(until the server runs out of physical memory, but I guess thats easy fixed)
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
5:59 AM
@MarkHenderson MOOOAAAAR MEMMORIIIEEES
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
@WesleyDavid Not to get into a religious debate, but as a European, Mormonism seems really silly.
3
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
@LucasKauffman You weren't here for the gun discussion earlier, were you?
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
I was not
What did I miss?
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
@LucasKauffman Oh, I had mentioned that it was an important tool in the sysadmin's toolbox. It came to mind when I was thinking about what to do about your report.
 
Iain
Iain
G'day
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
6:04 AM
And if you don't believe me, well, it seems to work at Server Fault.
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
@KennyRasschaert I don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind some magic underwear.
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
^^ Oh yeah, useless but shit it looks impressive
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
give it to a manager
and you say "red is bed I need more money"
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
@MarkHenderson Call it a dashboard, say it's Web 2.0, designed by DevOps, and hosted in the cloud. Clients will kill eachother to see who can pay you more.
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
@WesleyDavid Sadly I suspect you're right
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
6:10 AM
@MarkHenderson It's useless because it contains labels like "ifInOctets1" instead of "Bill's Porn Surfing Habit".
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
@MichaelHampton Hmm. I guess I could pull out mspaint and categorise parts of the day ;)
"lunch time" "backups" "porn time"
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
As we were just discussing, these reports need to be massaged a bit so that managers can understand them more easily.
 
WesleyDavid
WesleyDavid
@MarkHenderson Geckoboard that stuff and have it running on an old PC with a cheap TV hooked to it.
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
Does anybody ever spell DRBD correctly?
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
Way ahead of you
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
6:16 AM
@MarkHenderson Not flashy and colorful enough for the managers.
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
@MichaelHampton I actually did start setting up a Geckoboard, but then the free trial ran out and I decided to do real work instead :p
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
@MarkHenderson Oh, that's something they'll probably buy for you without a second thought.
 
Mark Henderson
Mark Henderson
6:31 AM
Home time, cya
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
6:43 AM
Nothing as good as Rusko to wake up in the morning
 
t1nt1n
t1nt1n
Morning hags.
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
7:10 AM
English peeps: Is there a better way to say, I hope this is more clear to the reader? Can I use clearer?
 
Iain
Iain
clarifies matters for the ...?
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
hello
You're talking about network/infrastructure supervisor?
 
Lucas Kauffman
Lucas Kauffman
@Iain thanks that's even better :p
 
t1nt1n
t1nt1n
hey @ia
lets try again @iain long time no speak. Hows things going up there?
 
Achu
Achu
Hey guys, a little advice on cloud hosting, Is there will speed problem on Physical location of cloud servers?
 
t1nt1n
t1nt1n
7:20 AM
@Achu expand?
 
Achu
Achu
Ok
I have a plan to host my website on Rackspace cloud servers. they have data center in US, UK and Japan. My 80% visitors come form Africa. here i'm confused which data center will good for me.
 
t1nt1n
t1nt1n
Depends on where there connection terminates. But if The Japan has a bigger backhal than the US then the might be better to use as there is more bandwith. But.....
We cant tell you the anwser to this. The only thing is to try and run some metrics. The nice thing about "Cloud" Hosting is you can normally migrate zones depending on the provider
 
Achu
Achu
Yeah but Rackspace does not give migrating from one data center to the another. Ex. migrating from US to UK. You have to create a new account on UK.
 
t1nt1n
t1nt1n
Yea thats because of EMEA Trading rules. You should be able to do UK to JP tho
ive not used rackspace so cant say.
best thing would be ask there sales guys. There the best people as they know the Infrastructure
 
Achu
Achu
I did but i don't trust sales peoples. always says all our products the best :)
They don't tell you the truth. Like you said which data center have bigger backhal, they will give the answer all datacenter have bigger backhal.
 
t1nt1n
t1nt1n
7:32 AM
Just say that you have X datacenters and you want to know the connections at each. Then chose yourself. Just ask for the information dont ask for there oppinion.
 
Achu
Achu
ok
 
Achu
Achu
7:44 AM
Thank you guys for you advice. Bye
 
Iain
Iain
@t1nt1n I'm good - and you ?
 
SmallClanger
SmallClanger
8:22 AM
Morning.
 
Michael Hampton
Michael Hampton
That it is.
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
8:53 AM
WANT one
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
it needs arms
I need it to be able to pull a server from a rack and service it.
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
9:25 AM
@Chopper3 that's remind me of Demolition man, when the mayor is in a meeting in the future
@KennyRasschaert we're still needed then ^^
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
@Anarko_Bizounours I seriously want one
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
I understand, and I start to want one too
 
HaydnWVN
HaydnWVN
9:43 AM
Quicky: WTF is a firewall hook sink?
 
SmallClanger
SmallClanger
@Chopper3 They look ace, but I'm have my doubts over the practicalities.
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
@HaydnWVN It's a protocol that check the packet when it's input. But not sure, will look for it to be more accurate
 
HaydnWVN
HaydnWVN
@Anarko_Bizounours Thanks, we've noticed an odd message on our firewall log 'Firewall hook sink' with an odd external IP address we're not aware of (we have exceptions for allowed IP's, everything else incoming is blocked)
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
ok, So far I never heard of hook sink on other device than thompson speedtouch
 
HaydnWVN
HaydnWVN
Ours is a Linksys
Checking with our security/external software support company now
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
9:52 AM
@SmallClanger People would definitely attach paper cock/balls to the underside wouldn't they
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
hook sink work together, the hook test every packet that enter the network, and the sink only process the packet that's want to go to the speedtouch server . Well that's what I found on the interweb.
 
HaydnWVN
HaydnWVN
speedtouch server meaning the NAT table or the internal destination?
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
not sure
 
HaydnWVN
HaydnWVN
@Anarko_Bizounours Ok, thanks anyways
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
10:07 AM
sorry couldn't help more about this
 
SmallClanger
SmallClanger
@Chopper3 Hah, or felt tip a goatee and a pair of glasses to the screen.
 
 
1 hour later…
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
11:38 AM
wtf. i told the client a linux host, not windows
now i either have to rewrite the db codes or see if it can be switched
 
Iain
Iain
12:09 PM
@JohnGardeniers Welcome !
 
Dan
Dan
12:40 PM
Good lord
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
now a days, i don't doubt that that shit is real
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
I'm thankful she aborted
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
some really f'ed up people out there
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
we don't need her offspring in our gene pool, and she would be a terrible mother
 
Dan
Dan
I blame the church
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
12:46 PM
The president broke reddit yesterday
normal sites get reddited, reddit gets POTUSed
 
Dan
Dan
So I just spent 20 minutes diagnosing why Office 2010 SP1 wouldn't install, seemed to be something obscure to do with Symantec Anti Virus
Turns out the site has SP1 anyway :(
 
Chris S
Chris S
@KennyRasschaert Unfortunately I think I agree.
@Dan WTF? Thanks for starting the day on a sour note. >=|
 
Dan
Dan
@ChrisS Happy to help
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
What's wrong with someone that's going to be a terrible parent getting an abortion?
 
Chris S
Chris S
@Dan The root of all your problems are Symantec Anti Virus
@MDMarra Personally I don't have any problem with that. I'm just not convinced by a series of FB Posts that she's be good or bad... Or that it's real for that matter.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
12:53 PM
Oh, I'm sure there's a 73% chance that it's fake
but assuming it's not, I think we can extrapolate that she's a shitty person.
 
Chris S
Chris S
@MDMarra Or someone who puts up a tough front. Especially since it ends in a very emotionally vulnerably way.
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
maybe shes a character actress
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
If there's truth to the fact that she knowingly went out drinking multiple times while pregnant, then she's pretty much a shitty person
And judging by the content of those posts (again, assuming they're real) she has, at least, a cursory grasp on the negative effects of alcohol on a fetus
 
Chris S
Chris S
I've met several different people with FAS, it's an "interesting" effect. My mom mentored a girl who had it from 17 to 19 (when she was released from juvie, and went back to living with her horrible family).
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
themeforest.net/item/… i can't help but stair at the women in the picture
 
Chris S
Chris S
1:02 PM
@lsiunsuex demohtml.templatesquare.com/smartgroup/images/slider/sg-1.png <-- Sorry, she was starting to creep me out.
Her?
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
yes
i call that, early morning porn - just enough to wake you up, but not get you excited
 
Chris S
Chris S
Not my type in the least, so that's on less guy to compete with ;]
 
Dan
Dan
@ChrisS Nor mine, not that it's ever really stopped me before
 
Basil
Basil
good morning
also, in case anyone new is here:
yesterday, by WesleyDavid
Stop starring me.
5
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
I just went meta by starring that
2
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
1:12 PM
@MDMarra Slashdotted?
2
 
Basil
Basil
@KennyRasschaert haha, starception
2
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
Was there some Mormon-bashing here last night?
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
@ewwhite Slashdotting's not as scary as being reddited anymore, is it?
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@MDMarra It's exactly why I didn't go for it...
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
was there?
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
1:17 PM
@ewwhite Did you accept anything anywhere?
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
Mormons have my respect. any man that is a polygamist and can deal with more than 1 wife must be very complacent
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@MDMarra yeah..
7 hours ago, by Kenny Rasschaert
@WesleyDavid Not to get into a religious debate, but as a European, Mormonism seems really silly.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
@lsiunsuex Most mormons aren't polygamists
God, don't you watch Sister Wives?
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@lsiunsuex The trick is to beat your wives into submission.
 
Dan
Dan
@ScottPack Or just beat them anyway
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
1:19 PM
there, i fixed it
i dont watch tv
 
Basil
Basil
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
@ewwhite You're not a Mormon are you?
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@KennyRasschaert Naw... I was just interested in hearing the perspective.
Americans don't know much about Mormonism, except for the craziness we hear in the media.
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
and the HBO series Big Love
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
I know even less about it. My main source of information is South Park.
But going by that, it's a pretty bizarre religion.
 
Basil
Basil
1:22 PM
My main source of information is the art of trolling's website when the post screencaps of questions about magnets.
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
Although from what I'm told, they're the nicest people when they go door to door.
 
Basil
Basil
@KennyRasschaert except that by knocking on my door, they've become someone willing to invade my privacy physically to sell their shit
no matter how they act, they're no better than telemarketers
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
car salesman are worse than telemarketers
 
Chris S
Chris S
@Basil Devin Nully is going on the phone list the next time I update it. That's great.
 
Basil
Basil
@lsiunsuex You have to go to them, though, so they have an excuse. Telemarketers come to you.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
1:27 PM
But now, it's on to Politics... The Republican convention coverage is getting wild.
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@KennyRasschaert My main source of Mormon knowledge comes from the Mormons I knew growing up. But going by that it's a pretty bizarre religion.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@ScottPack So should it color one's perception of a Presidential candidate?
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite I'm still not convinced that I'm even going to vote for president. I don't like our current; but I have "reservations" against voting for a waffling moderate who panders to the extremists.
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@ewwhite Personally? I keep my thoughts on religion out of politics, so I would prefer you treat me with the same respect.
 
Basil
Basil
@ewwhite Whether or not it should, it does. Voters are dumb.
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
1:29 PM
@ewwhite A religion is often perhaps on of the most profound influences on one's behavior.
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@ewwhite I figure that applies to my fellow voters as well as the candidates.
 
Basil
Basil
I'd be more worried about his business background and his plans for the economy, but that can't get people riled up like a good old "he's not like us" attack ad.
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
i think Obama gets a lot more shit than he deserves; he came in at a difficult time; the economy is going through a lot of shit; he did the best he could with what he had. these problems can't be fixed in 4 years
 
Chris S
Chris S
@KennyRasschaert "often perhaps" <-- Your use of qualifiers makes me think you don't stand behind your statement.
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@lsiunsuex It's especially hard to "fix" things when the political system sets up the president as a figure head with little real authority.
 
Basil
Basil
1:30 PM
At least he didn't make it worse.
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
@ChrisS I was trying to tone down what I had originally typed, because it depends on how strong the faith is
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
we're republican, but i think a republican in the office would make things worse. their going to go against the grain of what Obama has tried to do
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite Everything should color one's perception of a candidate. We don't get to pick one part of the candidate to be the elected official, it's the whole person.
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
@ChrisS ...and it's also a touchy subject..
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
we should try what RIM did - 2 presidents!
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
1:32 PM
All true. I'm less concerned about Romney+Mormon than I am about the GOP platform.
 
MikeyB
MikeyB
@ScottPack Best thing I've heard all week: Mormonism == Christian Fan Fiction
 
Chris S
Chris S
@KennyRasschaert According to many sources, the world is headed for Atheism (or Nihilism, which we'll count as the same for the religious-political discussion). So it may matter less than you think.
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
@ChrisS Try running for office as an atheist in the most powerful country in the world, and then tell me that it doesn't matter that much.
 
Basil
Basil
Maybe in a few generations, but it's still not OK to be an atheist in almost any real world social situation I've ever been in.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
And the them versus us is tiring... So if you are a single-issue voter, gun rights advocate, wealthy or businessman, disenfranchised southern white, concerned about immigration, etc... you're lumped into the Republican party.
Liberals... it's like everything else.
 
Ladadadada
Ladadadada
1:34 PM
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
Only having two parties will do that, polarization is the only possible outcome..
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
@KennyRasschaert China?
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@KennyRasschaert Which is pretty disappointing considering that, by all accounts, atheists count for about 20% of the population.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
But what I don't understand are people who are like, "welp, I'm worse off than I was four years ago... Obama's fault!"
 
Dan
Dan
"This installer can not be run from a UNC path"
*Maps drive*
"This installer can not be run from a Network drive"
Grr!
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
1:37 PM
@ChrisS What's wrong with the current?
 
Basil
Basil
@ScottPack It doesn't matter. The 80% of the world that isn't atheist looks at the 20% like they have no soul or morals, and simply can't comprehend living a life where you can't be happy.
It's not usually even hatred, it's just pity
So for the next 80 years or so, assuming we make it that far, it'll probably be not safe to be an atheist in public if you need people around you to trust, like, or support you in any way.
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@Basil Interestingly, the percentages seem to increase as you narrow your population based on highest degree earned. I've seen figures indicating that, based on the education level of Congresspeople that, statistically, about 50% of them should be assumed to be atheists.
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
@Basil I loathe the argument that atheists have nothing to keep them from commiting murder or theft. Morality does not come from religion, it comes from humanity.
 
Dan
Dan
My dad got beat up by a priest - imagine how much faith there was in my household growing up :D
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@ScottPack They probably are... but have to keep a public image of being religious.
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
1:39 PM
@KennyRasschaert Remember that one humanist? What was is name? Saint Thomas or something?
@ewwhite I find it disheartening to think that people have to pretend to follow a certain faith to be accepted.
 
Basil
Basil
@KennyRasschaert Be that as it may, I'm not arguing about the actual belief system. I'm talking about how others see it.
@ScottPack Atheism is an educated person's hobby.
 
Dan
Dan
@Basil Careful with that - I'm atheist through and through, but there are far cleverer people than I who take their faith seriously
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
@Basil I know what you meant. It's just such a prevalent point of view.
 
MJB
MJB
Hi all, does anyone know if it is possible to access data from Exchange by php? OWA-php seems dead, and php-ews are ... poorly documented libs. Can't imagine this isn't implemented in some way, though google and stackexchange turn up with poor results.\
 
Basil
Basil
@Dan Not implying otherwise, but I know very few uneducated atheists.
 
Kenny Rasschaert
Kenny Rasschaert
1:43 PM
@Dan I can understand that some people believe in a divine creator. I just don't see how you can take organized religion seriously. "Oh OK this super old book full of contradictions is 100% true. That other super old book is full of lies!"
 
Dan
Dan
@MJB Ahaha - I did a bit of this as a project at an old job, my advice is to run the fuck away! It is definitely possible, though
And you're right about poor results - it just took endless guesswork
@Basil Fair point.
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
my god we have a stupid employees. "what does quarterly mean? 2 months?"
 
Dan
Dan
@lsiunsuex Sure, if you have an 8 month year :D
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite My two big points of contention with Obama are 1. Big Government (don't get me wrong, most Rs talk about small gov, then do the opposite too) 2. Deficit => Debt
@lsiunsuex That would be 2.5 on the Roman Calendar. =]
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@ChrisS What is "big government"?
 
Chris S
Chris S
1:49 PM
Bi- and Semi- are two people constantly screw up.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
And what makes it big?
Military spend? Social programs? Waste and inefficiency?
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite Efficiency mostly, the net benefit to the average tax payer per the amount they pay.
"Big Government" is a terrible term, and I can see why you'd ask for clarification. But it essentially boils down to efficiency.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@ChrisS Is that a function of the President's policies? The government is woefully-inefficient... Seems broken much of the time. But I wouldn't be able to pine it on Obama, for instance.
 
Chris S
Chris S
For instance (and don't extrapolate too much from this example), Obamacare provides healthcare to certain individuals. The benefit provided is in the ballpark of a typical healthcare plan, but the cost is (in very rough terms) $100,000 per person. Now my employer pays more than half of the cost of my health care, but it certainly doesn't add up to that much.
 
MJB
MJB
@Dan
@Dan Well... that's encouraging ;)
 
Chris S
Chris S
1:54 PM
@ewwhite The President may not have complete control, but for the last few decades they've dictated the majority of the agenda. And nothing gets fixed if it doesn't get on the agenda.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@ChrisS watered-down and morphed into something unappealing... It seems like Americans would like a single-payer system...
 
Basil
Basil
I don't know what Obamacare is, but if it's closer to what we Canadians get, you should go for it.
2
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite I propose a hybrid system. I don't have the time or willingness to flesh out all the details in chat right now, but essentially the government provides major medical and you get private healthcare to fill in the gaps if you so desire.
 
Basil
Basil
Our deficit is small and shrinking, our debt load is manageable, our education is cheap, our health care is free, and there are no death panels or forced abortions.
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
100k sounds way high. my employer pays for my benefits in full and its around 8k / year
 
Chris S
Chris S
1:56 PM
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@ChrisS Makes sense. Reduce burden on employers and allow people with the means to tailor as they see fit.
But the GOP platform would strike that down... "You don't want US to be like Europe or even worse, Canada!!!"
 
Chris S
Chris S
That's correct. And that proposal isn't like either =]
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
But I think that us Americans are easily misguided... we should be out in the streets!
 
Chris S
Chris S
@lsiunsuex Yes, well that's why I gripe about government efficiency (my take on the "big government" problem).
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
cough voter suppression, Military, the lies!
@chriss but nothing you've mentioned indicated Romney/Ryan are a better direction. These are systemic issues.
 
Chris S
Chris S
2:06 PM
@ewwhite Correct. Hence my reluctance to vote for any of them.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@ChrisS You seriously don't see a difference between them?
I guess I'd suggest participating in some way... doesn't have to be a vote for the big two parties...
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite Sure I do. But the thinks I most care about, not much difference.
@ewwhite Is someone running on another ticket??
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
I don't even know...
that's sad.
Although, Ron Paul still isn't sure who he's casting a vote for.
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
From an outsiders perspective US politics is just about where you sit on the selfishness line, both options are basically fairly massively selfserving, it just depends on how blatent you are about it and whether you use the name of Jesus to get you there or not
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@Chopper3 How so? I fit an odd profile... Definitely in the 1%, have a business, but believe that I've been lucky and had lots of help (education, infrastructure, grew up on welfare)... should be up-in-arms about taxes, but it doesn't bother me, because I have the means. Liberal on social issues. Am a minority... The current Republican platform is unappealing because I don't see any ideas from them that would seem to work... Add the race-baiting, social puritanism, religious-driven policies...
I just see that it's no fun doing well when so many other people are struggling. The gap is widening here.
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
2:16 PM
@ewwhite Everything's about protecting what they have and grabbing what they don't - there's no social consciousness, not at anything but a local/charity level anyway
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite The Green Party are a bunch of tree huggers. The Libertarians are isolationist, anarchist nut-jobs.. The Democrats just want to be in power by promising poor people the world. The Republicans want to screw everyone. The Constitution Party are even worse nut-jobs than the Libertarians. So who would you like to vote for?
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
Even just the process and costs of getting into office ENSURE that whoever wins will just spend their time paying back favours
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@Chopper3 That part is true. THe best investment for a wealthy person in the US is paying-off politicians... er, lobbyists...
 
Chris S
Chris S
@Chopper3 They're expected to raise a total of $3b+ this year between Demo, Repub, and PACs.
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
@ChrisS to non-Americans the Democrats don't look that socially-oriented anyway, maybe against the GOP they do but in the scheme of things they're both pretty right wing compared to the rest of the world
 
Chris S
Chris S
2:18 PM
@Chopper3 I said "promise", not "deliver".
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@Chopper3 That's also true... there's no real left...
 
Dan
Dan
@Chopper3 This is certainly how I view it - I love the US and look forward to going back, but I do find their social and political landscape very strange
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
I'm aggressively athiest but what galls me most is the MOST right-wing using the name of Jesus to fuck over the poor and helpless - it's beyond parody
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@Dan does it make us look ignorant?
@Chopper3 Well, you're lucky you haven't had to hear non-stop coverage of the meaning and delineation between different forms of rape for the past two weeks.
(as it relates to abortion)
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
I wouldn't say ignorant, but to 'old-world'ers the US is still 'growing up', all full of ideal and energy but ignoring the lessons of what's come before it
 
Dan
Dan
2:22 PM
@ewwhite No, I think it's just due to how America has evolved to have a very different life view of themselves than the rest of the world. The whole American Dream thing just looks weird, especially when we see that it's not really true. Without being nasty, certain (large) parts of the US look downright 3rd world
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@Dan We're trailblazers! Pull yourself up by your bootstraps...
Yeah, that dream doesn't exist anymore...
 
Dan
Dan
And the people in power (and by extension, probably a large majority of the public) really seem to hate poor people
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
The GOP convention keeps repeating the theme of us being "The Greatest Country on Earth"
That's creepy to say that...
especially in my town... every weekend, the news has a tally of how many people were shot over the weekend.
 
Dan
Dan
Yes, I saw that about drive bys in Chicago
 
Chopper3
Chopper3
Yes Dan, that's very true, in a country full of god-fearers there a lot of very non-christian behaviour going around
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
2:26 PM
@ChrisS And most of that money will go to TV ads to fight over what, 200,000 voters in 4 states?
I live in Chicago, and other than the news reports, you wouldn't know that all of these shootings were occurring... The inner-city is ignored/neglected.
 
Dan
Dan
To be entirely fair to America, I don't think the sheer size of your country helps. When people think "Ghetto" in the UK, they think of areas that you can drive through in less than 10 minutes. Don't get me wrong, we have some really terrible areas (The worst local to me had a spate of gangsters chasing each other on motorcycles shooting each other. At one point it was declared an official no go zone to Police without an armed escort), but they're absolutely tiny in comparison.

So when we see huge parts of huge cities that are just, well, terrible, it just looks absolutely insane to us
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite "in one of the most violent days the city has seen in nearly two months"
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
Two months is not a very long time frame.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@Dan But there are reasons for it. Institutionalized racism (which we still haven't come to terms with) created these neighborhoods... Restrictive covenants on where certain minorities could live had a big part in that. Chicago is terribly segregated in it's south and west portions.
@ChrisS we've had 30-shooting weekends.
it's crazy
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite I thought it was more crazy that it was the "worst" in two months....
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
2:33 PM
Although, some of this is gang turf war now... drug trade from Mexico
 
Chris S
Chris S
That's right up there with: I'm starving! I haven't eaten in almost 2 hours!
 
Dan
Dan
@ewwhite Not good, takes an extremely long time to recover from that kind of social division
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite Racism and various other discriminations are a problem we'll likely have for generations to come. Previous laws really screwed things up. Current laws aren't making it any better, especially the ones mean to help. I don't pretend to have answers, but I do wonder what could be done better in the short and long terms.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
@ChrisS Liberals overreacted to the restrictive covenants by making it TOO easy to get housing... and opened the door to predatory lending practices... Lots of weird overcompensation. I think we need to fix our race issues... our economic divisions, definitely...
I don't think there's a short-term fix. I hear people literally waiting for the demographic landscape to change...
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite I'm not sold on the idea of fixing economic divisions. I am sold on fixing factors that influence economic stratification, such as education and various opportunities.
 
ewwhite
ewwhite
2:40 PM
Right now, the Republican strategy is to simply pass on appealing to minority voters and women. I think the headlines of Romney receiving ZERO percent of the black vote are interesting...
@ChrisS Well, that goes into access to education... College is expensive. Fewer jobs. Lots of competition. Our elementary and high schools have been gutted.
I'm 32... I went to well-funded schools. Sometime between 1998 and now, the education system collapsed.
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ewwhite Pft. I'm not even worried about college yet. Our inner city high schools have a 60% drop out rate.
Further, college isn't for everyone, but secondary education of some kind should be. Vocational training seems to make a lot of sense to me. I actually think high school should end around grade 10 (sophomore). The previous 11 and 12th grades should be prep, for "no additional schooling", "vocational prep", or "college prep".
The traditional idea of "grades" should be scrapped as well. A group of kids at the same age is not guaranteed to learn at the same rate, or retain/interpret that knowledge at the same rate. There's no good reason to be shuffling kids along based solely on age, we know better now.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
@ChrisS They have that now
Well, to an extent
My brother went to a comprehensive high school where he took welding classes throughout the 4 years
in addition to all of the normal highschool stuff
of course, he decided he didnt want to do welding for a career so all that time was wasted, but still.
It also illustrates the point that kids that are 15 and 16 can't realistically make career decisions like that.
 
Chris S
Chris S
He was 15 or 16 when he started High School?
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
no
but if 11th grade is when they decide on college prep, no prep, or voc prep, they're that age
 
Chris S
Chris S
I'm suggesting Vocational Prep, not Vocational Training at those grade levels.
While I generally agree that at 16 most kids can't make a good decisions, at all, I do think test scores, their general disposition toward school, grades, and parental guidance can make a fairly accurate assessment of the kid's future.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
2:54 PM
True
but it's more than "college" vs "voc".
Someone that has good grades might be completely happy being a carpenter. And they're probably going to make a shitload more money over time than someone that gets a BA in Music
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
As I recall the tests I took in high school indicated that I should have been an automotive mechanic.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
Asking a bright kid to choose one of those two paths at that age is really a hard thing to do.
 
Chris S
Chris S
@MDMarra If you're critiquing my proposed improvements because they're not Perfect, you'll have to propose a Perfect Alternative Plan.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
I'm just saying that I think the current structure is fine now.
 
Chris S
Chris S
@MDMarra You're assuming the kid has the final say in this.... Their opinion is one of a list of inputs.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
2:57 PM
Not sure what you mean
 
Chris S
Chris S
@MDMarra 60% drop-out in inner cities and perpetuating the status-quo is "fine"?
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
Different problem
Ever see Waiting for Superman?
 
Chris S
Chris S
@MDMarra You're approaching this proposal as if the kid gets to pick if they want to go to college or VT at age 16 simply by checking a box on a form. That is most definitely not what I am proposing.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
I don't see how what you're proposing will do to change the dropout rate.
 
Chris S
Chris S
3:10 PM
@MDMarra Did you know the Superman school, Harlem Children's Zone, received $60m in donations the year before the film was shot? The year after the film it received about $40m. Public funding, the traditional source of funds for typical public schools, accounted for about 11% of their budget. Apparently you only get Superman if you pay 9 times as much.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
Are we trying to solve the educational crisis in America today?
 
Chris S
Chris S
No. They've already solved the problem, it just costs too much.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@ChrisS nonsense
the problem remains unsolved because we need an illiterate proletariat to continue propping up our inherently corrupt money machine of a government
to solve the educational crisis in America simply kill all the politicians.
(yes, that is my solution to every problem. Why do you ask? :-)
 
Chris S
Chris S
Get your phone back?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@ChrisS yup
 
Chris S
Chris S
3:21 PM
Where was it?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
in the plane :P
I pimp-slapped Siri a few times for good measure though
 
Chris S
Chris S
What have we learned from this experience?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
dat skank done been forgettin' her place!
@ChrisS That if you don't slap your hoes regularly they start gettin' all uppity and try to leave!
@Basil Re: Obamacare, it was originally conceived as "Medicare for everyone" (basically what Canadians (and US government officials) get). It got slaughtered and frankensteined into This which basically means 20% per annum premium increases from private companies for insurance the government is forcing you to buy (or they fine you with a tax).
 
Chris S
Chris S
I have no lunch today. I think I'll get Jimmy Johns.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
there's still some good stuff in there, but it's got some pretty awful provisions too
 
Basil
Basil
3:27 PM
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@ChrisS I haven't had Jimmy Johns in a long time. Turkey Tom no mayo. Yummo.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@Basil An apple-shaped buttplug? Woudln't the bite-shaped part hurt? (to say nothing about the rest of it)
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@voretaq7 I expect a full report.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@ScottPack talking to the man. I don't lust after inanimate objects :P
and if you're suggesting I test it on users there's those pesky Geneva conventions
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@voretaq7 What does lust have to do with it?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
3:30 PM
@ScottPack well it's certainly not love - not till I see a ring on this finger!
really?
-1
Q: BackupExec client for Linux - crash on Precise

vn.I recently upgraded my test server from Ubuntu 10.04.4 (or 5?) to 12.04.1, all's good except VRTSralus, the service for BackupExec's Linux client, crashes on start... Symantec being bad as usual on support, I'm told to wait. Anyone encountered the issue? solved it? If so, how? Here's my log ...

backupexec ubuntu-12.04
I'm going to ask the devs for a big popup when you ask a question saying if this is an issue with commercial software for which you have a support contract you must contact your goddamn vendor
 
Basil
Basil
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
have always assumed if people post a question about commercial software that has support that either a: the commercial product's support channels suck ass or b: the software in question is pirated; either way, you should probably move to replace said crappy software
 
Chris S
Chris S
@ScottPack I prefer the Beach Club, but they don't have sprouts since the scare last year or whenever it was.
 
Scott Pack
Scott Pack
@ChrisS Lame.
 
Anarko_Bizounours
Anarko_Bizounours
bye lads
 
Chris S
Chris S
3:43 PM
Anyone got Outlook running on OSX? Does it have the option to Share a Calendar with other people???
 
Basil
Basil
I just "found" 35 TB of space on one of my XP24000s. We've been releasing space lately, but nowhere near that much... I sure as hell hope nothing is broken
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@ChrisS you can run Outlook on OS X?
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
@voretaq7 Office for Mac 2011 rebranded Entourage as Outlook
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
Hey - flag mongers! Why don't you search for questions with "Solved" in them?
usually those are shit :)
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
@ChrisS I wasn't talking about that school specifically, more about the look into the failin schools and why there's a 60% dropout rate to begin with
Obviously that charter school is where everyone wants to get into, but the doco was more about the plight of the school and kids being heartbroken when they didn't win the lotto to get into a charter
I wasn't saying everywhere should be like the charters shown in the movie, but that it gives an insight into why the dropout rate is so high
@Basil I just commented in reply to the comment you left on my lazy zero answer
 
Chris S
Chris S
3:52 PM
@voretaq7 I dunno, I've got some guy telling me he's got Windows 2010 on his Mac, and I'm trying to get his Exchange Calendar shared out. =]
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
Does that make more sense now or am I inventing new storage stuff as I go along ;)
@ChrisS Tell him to use OWA
:)
 
Chris S
Chris S
I don't know the address of his OWA... maybe I can guess it.
 
MDMarra
MDMarra
ohh, didn't realize this was an external person
Dig the MX and start from there ;)
 
Chris S
Chris S
Yeah, we don't allow Macs in our network. =P
 
lsiunsuex
lsiunsuex
@ChrisS having a Mac on your network increases your sex appeal. Its like parking a POS next to a Ferrari. Instant glam shot.
 
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