The Comms Room

WesleyDavid

4:08 PM

@ChrisS I had someone ask me to buy four copies of Windows 2010 for them recently.

Ergh. I feel like I dragged myself in.

Chris S

@WesleyDavid Were they going to install it on a Mac?

WesleyDavid

@ChrisS Fortunately (or unfortunately?) no.

Chopper3

@WesleyDavid Talking of paying MS for code have you fucking SEEN how much MSSQL 2012 costs these days - staggering

WesleyDavid

@Chopper3 Really? I figured since they monkeyed with the pricing after 2008. Used to be a compelling price. Now it's a convulsing price.

Chris S

@Chopper3 Meh, the free versions are good enough for small business and some medium business applications too. If you're up to the size where you need the expensive versions, you can afford it. =P

WesleyDavid

4:12 PM

Used to be per socket, now it's per core. Boo hiss.

Chopper3

@WesleyDavid yeah, four x HP BL685's running EE worked out at over $150k

WesleyDavid

@Chopper3 I wonder how it's working out for Redmond. Really though, where would one go? It's still cheaper than Oracle. More robust than MySQL. I know! :pokes @voretaq7: POSTGRESQL!!

:elephants:

2

Chris S

@Chopper3 How many cores?

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid yezz?

Chris S

@Chopper3 Also, Opterons? Really?

WesleyDavid

4:18 PM

@voretaq7 We had a third-normal-pachyderm moment. It's under control now.

2

Chopper3

@ChrisS 64

@ChrisS for DB boxes they're good

@ChrisS one of those with 64 cores, 512GB, 2x300GB 10k's and an 8Gbps FC HBA costs me less that $10k - the same blade but with Xeons costs me over 25k

WesleyDavid

@Chopper3 I know. When I need raw crunch power, I usually end up specing out AMDs.

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid BCNF4LYF?

Chris S

@Chopper3 That's a pretty good price considering their normal pricing policy.

Chopper3

@WesleyDavid I'm a massive fan of Intel, I'm a spokeman for them! but for DB boxes I can't ignore the economics

Chris S

4:21 PM

Interesting

Chopper3

@ChrisS don't forget that our main DB engine is Oracle TimesTen which is 100% memory based, so if I can buy as server with 512GB I can easily fit even our biggest 'live' (i.e. client-facing, non-MIS) DBs on those boxes very easily

ewwhite

@chriss Blades... and I have Outlook on Mac right now... connected to Exchange.

Chris S

@ewwhite Blades are a sore spot right now. My budget has been provisionally approved pending a Cloud Plan (I'm looking at colocating some older servers right now). In Outlook do you have any options to Share your calendar? In the Windows version there's buttons on the ribbon for Sharing, and if you right click your Calendar the second to last option is a submenu of Sharing options.

I hate my new Earthlink sales rep. The last one I had her cell number and she always answer or got back to me very quickly. The new one isn't returning my calls. WTF is wrong with sales people.....

ewwhite

4:39 PM

@chriss Need co-lo?

Chris S

@ewwhite That's what I was afraid of.

ewwhite

@ChrisS what is wrong?

Chris S

@ewwhite Yes, probably... Or pricing at least... I'm not crazy about the idea, but the owners want it.

ewwhite

Click on permissions, add the users who need perms

Chris S

@ewwhite No, to share with 3rd parties across the net.

ewwhite

4:42 PM

Add an Exchange contact.

Chris S

Quick example, I can send you an e-mail with a link to view my Free/Busy information. So if we're constantly meeting with each other, it'd be way more convenient for you to be able to see that then constantly trying to suggest new times.

ewwhite

Not sure on that

@chriss tell me about the co-lo/cloud needs. I may be able to help.

Chopper3

Ever think "I just massively over-answered that one"?

ewwhite

@Chopper3 Yes... then the OP never returns...

Chopper3

always the way

Chris S

4:55 PM

@ewwhite Probably 1 or 2 HP DL380s and a Cisco ASA5505. Likely hosting a backup AD, Exchange, and possibly other stuff. The owners want to be able to operate the business if the power goes out here, but that isn't realistic. Not all the LoB apps support redundancy (most don't), and moving most/all our servers to colo would destroy our Internet connection and application load times.

ewwhite

I have good colo in Chicago... and will be working for a cloud infra company...

but honestly, why not keep that in-house?

Chris S

Well that's the thing, this is more exploratory. But who knows where it might lead...

I can tell them all I want that it doesn't make business sense; it's still their business and I do what I'm told. =]

ewwhite

Have you had outages?

Basil

TIL there are ARM fanboys.

ewwhite

Naw... EMC wont' do it.

WesleyDavid

5:06 PM

@ewwhite You found a place that you want to work for?

ewwhite

Eh.

Basil

@ewwhite arm, you mean?

ewwhite

@Basil Something like that.

Basil

@ewwhite that's where I learned there are ARM fanboys

ewwhite

@basil. You're a storage guy... I think I have questions again.

@basil How can I compare the effect of moving an application from local disks to SAN?

Basil

5:10 PM

@ewwhite benchmarks, unless it's prod, in which case careful monitoring

ewwhite

the metrics I have available to me are: Disk I/O in milliseconds...

Basil

that's all you need

well... what kind of application is it?

ewwhite

The I/O queue length, and the weighted I/O in milliseconds (Queue length x I/O latency).

and graphs....

Basil

what kind of application though?

ewwhite

@basil in this, it's the view of I/O queue in ms. Blue is the local disk, Purple is the SAN.

ERP database app on a multiuser Linux system.

Basil

5:15 PM

@ewwhite so that graph seems to show about the same performance levels on the purple disk and the blue disk. What is the red line though?

ewwhite

so the average latency is up from 22.4ms to 35.1ms.

average

Basil

the spikes are lower, though

ewwhite

the red line is the OS block device... not relevant here.

Basil

What kind of SAN?

Also, why are there gaps in the blue and purple lines?

ewwhite

EMC VNXe - 18 x 450G drives.

5 minute samples.

Basil

5:17 PM

each column is a day, by the looks of it

ewwhite

There are times when there's nothing in queue...

Basil

5 minutes should be enough to have a contiguous line

Chris S

@ewwhite More or less. The power has been pretty spotty the last two years. We've had 4 or 5 days out.

ewwhite

@Basil On the DB partition... The OS will always have something...

Basil

well average latency is one good measurement. The other ones would require a stress test, and that would negatively impact other work on the same san

ewwhite

5:19 PM

But also looking at the queue length...

Basil

@ewwhite That does seem a little worse. How many local drives are being used to serve that blue line?

ewwhite

8 x 146G 10k.

The gaps in the first graph mean that the requests are being served faster...

Basil

so 8 local spindles will have just over half the performance of the entire VNX. Assuming this isn't the only workload, it stands to reason that your application might be getting less performance sometimes.

ewwhite

but at a higher delay...

When weighted, queue length and IO/ms..

so when there are delays, they are at about the same as the old array... but otherwise, there are fewer outstanding I/Os...

(VNXe has more, faster disks)

@basil but then it's iSCSI over 1GB versus 3Gb SAS. Any downside there?

The client is not happy with performance, and wants to know what they can/should have done.

Basil

@ewwhite iSCSI won't matter if you're doing small block random IO

That said, if they want to find more performance, you should check the cache settings on the VNX and ensure you have enough IO cache and that it's not using all the system memory for itself.

ewwhite

5:32 PM

It's 80% small random I/O... and the rest is sequential writes.

(running reports/analysis)

There's cache on the controllers. No SSD tier.

Basil

the cache will have a huge effect on the 20% of writes. Are you sure there's enough cache? My VNX5100 has, like 2GB on the controllers, 99% of which is reserved for the system.

ewwhite

I can ask. I still don't know which model this is.

Basil

It's a VNXe- that's enough to know :)

their cache is my first suspect

Also, streaming writes will suffer in iSCSI

and random reads will suffer when this application is competing with other workloads for spindle-time on the SAN

ewwhite

@Basil What exactly should I ask the SAN vendor? How controller cache is allocated?

Adrian

Morning' gents

Basil

5:35 PM

@ewwhite What is the usable mirrored data cache amount

also, consider adding another drawer of fast disks

ewwhite

@basil Moar spindles == lower latency?

Basil

@ewwhite indirectly.

More spindles means the ability to fulfill reads faster, which means they spend less time waiting in queue.

so as you push the IO/s up, the latency will increase more slowly with you have more spindles

ewwhite

Up to a certain point, right? Is 188 disks better than a handful of STEC ZeusRAM SSD's?

Basil

@ewwhite each disk is going to be about 200 IO/s. Each SSD can provide thousands, but only on data that's housed on the SSD.

ewwhite

right... but they can serve them at lower latency ...

Basil

5:38 PM

VNX supports SSD as a tier, but that's still science fair technology

ewwhite

I took another server the same weekend and went from 8 x 146GB to 4 x SSD.

Basil

@ewwhite in theory, yes- however when someone says that a 16 drive raid does 3200 IO/s, it's implied that the latency for these would be worse than if it were doing 1000

@ewwhite local SSD is going to be way faster than any storage, even if it has SSD in it.

ewwhite

Oh well, yeah :)

Basil

so if they're willing to live with islands of SSD storage, then that's certainly an option for a database

that's how all these PCI-E SSD vendors are pitching their wares.

If nothing else, have the database read from SSD, and write to a SAN disk

ewwhite

They took this app... on a 3 year-old server with local disks... Moved it into a VMWare environment with SAN... and have taken a speed hit.

Basil

5:42 PM

yes, their SAN is underpowered for what they want to do

ewwhite

For me, I think a standalone server tuned appropriately is cheaper and a quicker solution.

So the SAN advantage is throughput with lots of attached systems?

Basil

also, any time you go to a traditional SAN (not including new tech like wide striping and SSD/auto tier), you will lose performance compared to local disk. The goal of the storage has always been to get you as close as possible to the local disk performance

The advantage is that you can centralize storage and more efficiently share resources

In my opinion, if you're moving to a 14 drive SAN, it's almost never worth it

Unless, of course, you're doing it to be able to cluster

ewwhite

(18 disks... )

there's another VNXe 3 hours away... and they're doing some type of replication

Basil

@ewwhite replication is another SAN selling point, however applications can do it themselves as well.

ewwhite

right, this app already has 10-minute interval replication

Basil

5:47 PM

If you had a bunch of applications that did the kind of IO this one does, it'd be better to get them all on a properly sized SAN with wide striping, thin provisioning, and maybe a little bit of SSD. That would be cheaper and more efficient than putting 8-16 disks (or SSDs) into a bunch of local servers.

ewwhite

so pull it out of the SAN, maybe? Since they'd have to spend a LOT more to get the SAN to the same level of performance.

Basil

@ewwhite If they added some cache, some disk, and maybe hired someone to ensure that the drivers/queue depths/storage configurations were optimized, they'd be able to keep it where it is.

ewwhite

:(

Basil

Or they could just get the vendor to look at it

tell EMC "It's not going fast enough. Fix it"

voretaq7

@Basil so the company has an unlimited budget? :-D

ewwhite

5:52 PM

Well, i want to make the point that this shouldn't have been virtualized.

Basil

@ewwhite Virtualization has its own advantages. Mostly consolidation, but also workload mobility. I assume this is on a vmware cluster now?

ewwhite

@Basil Yeah, VMWare Essentials Plus. 3-server cluster

So none of the good fancy automated resource balancing.

Basil

Well in any case, if they want it virtual, there must have been a reason. And you can't do virtual without shared storage.

ewwhite

I'm thinking they thought, "we spent $60k on this SAN, it HAS to be faster"

voretaq7

@ewwhite Speed is usually proportional to money...

ewwhite

6:02 PM

$60k is a lot... so I think people are misled in thinking it's always better.

voretaq7

well it's probably better than a 5K "SAN"

ewwhite

Prolly...

Hey, @voretaq7 I need lodging in NYC.

12 nights... recommend hotel or "vacation rental"?

office is in SoHo/

voretaq7

@ewwhite who's paying? :)

ewwhite

@voretaq7 The company...

but they're being weird...

voretaq7

waldorfnewyork.com :-P

ewwhite

6:11 PM

Office is in Soho, and they're freaking that hotels are $400+/night.

voretaq7

heh, cheap hotels? You're looking at dives like Hotel Penn then

ewwhite

I usually stay at the Maritime in Chelsea... $250-350/night...

Right, so they were about to put me at the hotel Penn or a Marriott in Secaucus...

voretaq7

@ewwhite yeah that's reasonable for NYC proper

ewwhite

And I don't want to be a diva... but it's a long-term stay, and I thought that they'd have a corporate deal or a recommendation. I want to just take care of it myself.

voretaq7

HP isn't a bad hotel... it's not a great hotel but you won't get bedbugs or anything

ewwhite

6:13 PM

2 weeks in Secaucus... ugh. Penn is too far away.

voretaq7

how long-term?

ewwhite

No thoughts on apartment rentals?

2 weeks

voretaq7

I wouldn't do jersey - the car service would cost more than the room

HP isn't far from chelsea subway wise...

never done the "sublet someone's apartment for 2 weeks" thing

ewwhite

the rates are lower... I'd rather not live in a hotel for 2 weeks.

but I'm thrown-off that the company didn't have a better plan

voretaq7

there's a Hilton Doubletree in chelsea somewhere if I remember right -- that's probably like 200/night

small company?

ewwhite

6:15 PM

low availability...

< 50 people, I think

low availability...

US Open and 9/11 are causing rates and availability to get weird.

voretaq7

9/11?

are people like making pilgrimages or something?

ewwhite

for whatever reason, there's low hotel availability around those dates.

I get in 9/9

@voretaq7 I thought you'd know the NY sublease thing

voretaq7

nopers - I'm a native :P

business in NYC for me means a train ride

ewwhite

well, it's funny that you immediately mentioned the hotel they were talking about...

voretaq7

because it's dirt cheap :)

I'm not sure there's anything cheaper in Manhattan except maybe a hostel

ewwhite

6:22 PM

someone else told me it was "bedbug city!"

voretaq7

never had a problem when I've stayed there for HOPE

it is a dive though -- definitely a hotel room you want to be in for <11 hours a day

ewwhite

But why should I put up with that? That's crazy.

voretaq7

I wouldn't recommend HP as someplace for my company to stick someone for a week or more

i'd be wary of it for 1-2 nights :P

...unless they're putting you in a suite

the suites are nice

ewwhite

@voretaq7 So given this, as a new employee, should I just make my own arrangements and ask for reimbursement?

Since the company doesn't seem to be too good at this?

(totally a Workplace.SE question)

voretaq7

ask on workplace :)

ewwhite

6:27 PM

Naw... not a good idea yet.

voretaq7

my inclination would be find out what their reimbursement policy is & if reasonable, do it yourself.

ewwhite

I travel a lot... so I have preferences. I booked my own flight because they were getting all weird about the lowest-possible price.

But I have my TSA and security clearance status... didn't want to lose it by having someone else book for me.

MDMarra

With all of the companies that you interviewed at, you chose the one that wants to buy the cheapest flight and put you up outside of the city you work in?

voretaq7

a company that's obsessively focused on that kind of cost-cutting would concern me...

ewwhite

Right... I'm getting concerned about it. It wasn't an issue before.

voretaq7

6:29 PM

@MDMarra sticking temp teams in NJ and driving them into manhattan used to be SOP for banks

MDMarra

Ya, but who actually enjoys working for a bank?

ewwhite

@voretaq7 car service.

voretaq7

@ewwhite yeah

@MDMarra I did back when they had money and stuff

MDMarra

lol, back when banks had money? How old are you, grandpa!

voretaq7

I was an insultant though

@MDMarra As old as the lawn you're standing on. Now GET OFF IT!

Basil

6:31 PM

@MDMarra All the Canadian banks seem flush- they all just increased dividends.

ewwhite

@vore So is it weird for me to object?

voretaq7

All the US Banks (that are left) seem flush. They're hoarding it though.

ewwhite

they are hoarding

MDMarra

@ChrisS Just read your comment a while back about free/busy across orgs on Outlook for OS X. I don't think you can even see from busy across orgs normally unless you've federated that data using ADFS.

voretaq7

@ewwhite to being stuck in a third-rate hotel? I'd complain on arrival certainly

serverfault.com/questions/423006/…

. . . Did his account get hacked, or is it well past Beer-Thirty in the UK

Chris S

6:41 PM

@MDMarra Yep, you can, do it with another business already.

@voretaq7 Since the Q is deleted, he'll not lose any rep froim it.

MDMarra

So, um, slow-logon is a thing...

They should really raise the "create new tag" threshold to like....20k

@ChrisS Wait, do mean that person's domain is already federated with the other user, or that you can see free/busy across orgs without ADFS?

Chris S

They're all pretty old questions, and you'd be amazed at how many people have no idea how to diagnose logon issues.

@MDMarra The latter.

MDMarra

Oh. I didn't know that. How's that work?

And what's the point of ADFS for free/busy if you don't need it. Does it add some extra shit?

Chris S

They don't use Exchange at all, just Outlook. Do the Share thing, they get an e-mail with a link, when they click the link Outlook opens the Free/Busy version of the Calendar, and they can open it again anytime they want just like any shared calendar.

MDMarra

Ohhhhhhhh, I see

I understand now.

voretaq7

6:48 PM

@ChrisS that's why I deleted it :)

Chris S

@MDMarra I don't know why you'd use ADFS for Free/Busy. ADFS is needed if you want anything more than F/B

MDMarra

ADFS lets anyone from an org see anyone from another org's free/busy. No need for a link, or anything.

voretaq7

but with >1K rep I'm wondering how drunk he was when he posted it

Chris S

@MDMarra Oh, that would be more convenient...

MDMarra

Yeah

We're partners with the national board of medical examiners. One of our child domains has a two way trust with their domain

so we do meetings with them a lot

The way you were saying the free/busy thing I was like "shit, why did we spend so much time on ADFS" haha

Chris S

6:56 PM

yeah, I'm looking for one calendar to one person... makes sense

@HopelessN00b The number of Question asked on SF per day hasn't really changed in the last 2 years.

Iain

7:30 PM

@voretaq7 if it's anything like the SF design issues it'll be the election after hell freezes over before it gets fixed

John Gardeniers

Greetings all. I have a need to quickly get started with Cisco gear. Nothing specific but enough so that I can apply for jobs with small companies who use Cisco routers and switches. As there appears to be about 2 billion different Cisco courses available I don't have even the vaguest notion of where to start. Can someone please try to point me to the start line?

lsiunsuex

@JohnGardeniers amazon.com/Cisco-Certified-Network-Associate-Edition/dp/… good luck

the cheat sheet PDF it comes with is about 300 PAGES

John Gardeniers

@Isiunsuex, thanks.

Joel E Salas

Has anyone had success migrating from mpm_prefork to mod_fastcgi + php-fpm ?

Iain

@JohnGardeniers welcome again

Chris S

7:37 PM

@lsiunsuex I haven't read that book, but +1 for CCNA.

John Gardeniers

Thanks @Iain

Joel E Salas

@JohnGardeniers I can also vouch for the quality of the Laemmle tome

lsiunsuex

CCNA is basically intro to cisco products - managed switches, some router stuff, different layers of a network, education on the different protocols, etc...

i got about half way though but had other shit on my plate and got distracted :( i found it interesting though

John Gardeniers

That sound like exactly what I need. Time to place an order and then get ready for the course I'm currently attending. Thanks and bye.

MikeyB

@JohnGardeniers If you're fairly familiar with networking and want to take training I highly recommend the accelerated CCNA week-long course.

Joel E Salas

7:40 PM

@MikeyB Sounds intense.

voretaq7

@JohnGardeniers the chatmonster let you in finally? :)

Iain

@voretaq7 @JohnGardeniers really should hang around more meta.serverfault.com/a/3598/9517

voretaq7

@JohnGardeniers In addition to the book from hell eBay is your friend for getting (relatively) cheap Cisco gear to practice on (and resell when done)

@Iain Hmm... that's true - the site banner does cover the login link

Iain

with vitriol like that he'd fit in well

voretaq7

nonsense. No mention was made of Markdown's kitten-killing tendencies...

MikeyB

7:50 PM

@JoelESalas It was perfect for me - I had taught myself a fair chunk of the material and the course was great for filling in the gaps.

Chris S

@ScottPack Have any opinions on the CISSP?

MikeyB

@voretaq7 @JohnGardeniers Also check out GNS3. And stretch's community lab

voretaq7

GNS3 is great too

I haven't used it much but a lot of people swear by it

Joel E Salas

@ChrisS It's a mile wide and a teaspoon deep. I wouldn't consider it more than a survey course of different security principles.

HopelessN00b

So... ServerFault doesn't have a LART tag. Should it? I'm very tempted to create it in my pending question...

Chris S

8:03 PM

@JoelESalas I know that. I'm wondering how widely recognized it is... Is it comparable to a MCP or a MCSE/MCITP? CCNA or CCIE?

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b No, it's a meta tag. You should use a more specific tag for the type of LART you are using (e.g. halon-system, power-transformer, cattle-prod...)

HopelessN00b

@chriss corporations in my part give way too much weight to it in these parts. We have a couple I wouldn't trust to secure a pencil, but have their jobs because of it.

It is also a pain in the ass to keep from expiring, or was when I last held it.

@voretaq7 thanks, that helps. .357-magnum it is.

Chris S

@HopelessN00b So, good on a resume, don't mention thereafter?

MDMarra

@ChrisS Isn't it a level up from CCNA (as in CCNA is a prereq?)

or am I thinking of something else

Chris S

I have to learn/know the material for the class I just started and I'm thinking of talking my work into paying for the actual test... Just wondering if it's worth the effort.

HopelessN00b

8:08 PM

Pretty much, though, honestly, if you have a brain you can use it to get a good security foundation ...

Chris S

@MDMarra CISSP = Certificed Info Sys Security Pro by (ISC)²; Nothing to do with Cisco.

MDMarra

Oh, what was I thinking of

CISS

without the P

Chris S

CCIP maybe? That's a Cisco cert.

HopelessN00b

I guess among people who know security, trying to use it as proof that you know what you're talking about is like telling someone at CERN you know about particle physics because you had a 101 class in college.

MDMarra

CISS is Cisco IOS Security Specialist.

Too many certs from too many vendors

voretaq7

8:11 PM

CCIA - Cisco Certified Infrastructure Alcoholic.
Advanced certification. Requires a minimum of 5 years field experience to apply for the test.

Chris S

There's also a CIPSS (Cisco Intrusion Prev System Specialist)

The TLAs! They're going to kill me!

HopelessN00b

Bah. I went fullblown alky after only 6 months. I'm that good.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b You're just a drunk. You need a certification to be an alcoholic. :)

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 Is that handed down by a traffic court?

@ChrisS It could be worth the extra salary bump that you can command for it. Suits love it

HopelessN00b

@joelesalas criminal court, these days. And I have a couple of those certs too. They're way over rated, and I'd advise avoiding them, especially for how much they cost. :p

Chris S

8:16 PM

@JoelESalas I think I'm convinced. Now just have to get the boss to got for it. Makes MS certs look darn cheap.

voretaq7

@JoelESalas or a regular one

Joel E Salas

8:48 PM

How should I rename a bunch of files when rename isn't available?

Michael Hampton

@JoelESalas Get a secretary to do it.

Iain

@JoelESalas it's a perl script on Ubuntu

Joel E Salas

@Iain for i in Nginx*; do mv "$i" $(echo "$i" | sed -e "s/Nginx/PHP-FPM/g"); done

Michael Hampton

I just realized I haven't used Windows consistently in so long that I forgot where to start troubleshooting.

Iain

@MichaelHampton reboot

Michael Hampton

8:53 PM

@Iain That usually helps, though in this case it's a windows 7 box hung at the Starting Windows screen.

Joel E Salas

You don't get into the bluish shit with the swooping colors?

Michael Hampton

Actually here's a question. I have Windows 7 in a virtual machine using the virtio disk drivers. Which means Startup Repair can't see the disk. Can I make Startup Repair see the disk by installing the virtio driver somehow?

ewwhite

@voretaq7 Fsck... it's Fashion Week in NYC. That's why I can't find a hotel!

Sorry, what's all of this Cisco, cert and virt talk?

voretaq7

@ewwhite ahhhhh

<- bad fag, knows nothing about fashion :(

ewwhite

I've been there during fashion week before. I tend to stay in that area... So... much... eye candy. And tall, beautiful people.

New York makes me feel like a country bumpkin.

Michael Hampton

8:58 PM

Er, nevermind, figured that one out.

ewwhite

@MichaelHampton what's the solution?

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite Go get an ISO image that has the virtio drivers, mount it to the VM, and point Startup Repair at it.

ewwhite

That definitely works.

Michael Hampton

The RHEV tools ISO doesn't actually have the drivers unpacked, so you can't use it. Which was apparently my original problem.

ewwhite

@voretaq7 Talking about that, maybe you should check out Birchbox.com . I couldn't take the job, but it's a nice jump-start to men's fashion.

Michael Hampton

9:02 PM

And OF COURSE the only option it gives me is System Restore.

"Startup Repair cannot repair this computer automatically." It's my lucky day!

voretaq7

@ewwhite meh. I have shirts, pants, and shoes. what more does a guy need to know about fashion? :P

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 But designers!

ewwhite

@voretaq7 Man, don't tell me I'm more metro... Birchbox for the grooming. Trunk Club for the clothing.

voretaq7

@JoelESalas what about 'em?

@ewwhite I have soap, shampoo, conditioner, and hair goop. (and obviously tootpaste, etc.)

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 Well they each have their own quirks and particular "look," there's a world of possibilities with just slacks and button-ups

ewwhite

9:14 PM

@voretaq7 I dunno... my September Birchbox included body powder, underwear, face cream...

Yeah, I'm a dork.

2

voretaq7

@JoelESalas "The ones that fit and don't look like shit on me" :-)

@ewwhite "body powder"?

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 Balla powder

voretaq7

@JoelESalas ...for ballin'?

o_0

ewwhite

Talcum powder...

And that's where I put it today!

Joel E Salas

Support/Qualify/Refute: A good tech team's process includes some mechanism for dealing with constant package updates

Apart from "We'll wait for debian 7"

ewwhite

9:21 PM

@JoelESalas Yes... depends on what's needed by the applications. I have some systems that don't change once installed. Other systems may need constant revs to the newest packages. Your in-house repo should allow you to control that, though.

Michael Hampton

So, for my windows problem, rebooting wasn't enough. I had to reboot into safe mode, and then reboot again.

Michael Hampton

9:38 PM

Did I ever mention how much I love Windows? No? Let me do that now. ZERO.

ewwhite

Facebook analytics...

Zoredache

@MichaelHampton just zero? that seems like the place for a negative number.

84104

9:54 PM

@Zoredache Might be using unsigned.

Joel E Salas

@ewwhite In my case, we're constantly requiring updates to media libraries as the FOSS packages get better and more powerful

HopelessN00b

10:21 PM

@ewwhite Wait, wut? It's fashion week in NYC? When does that go through? (At least) Monday, hopefully?

Oh damn, nevermind. Starts on the 6th. :( I bet corporate would notice if I extended the long weekend by a week.

Joel E Salas

For these workstation manufacturers, the economic choice was Unix.
Did users want the operating system where bugs didn’t get fixed? Not likely. Did users want the operating system with a terrible tool set? Proba- bly not. Did users want the OS without automatic command completion? No. Did users really want the OS with a terrible and dangerous user inter- face? No way. Did users want the OS without memory mapped files? No. Did users want the OS that couldn’t stay up more than a few days (some- times hours) at a time? Nope. Did users want the only OS without intelli- gent typeahead? Indeed no…

2

84104

@JoelESalas You are a treasure trove of praise for now outdated systems.

HopelessN00b

Oh, come now. Unix isn't outdated because Plan9 never succeeded. :p

Michael Hampton

rahul.net/kenton/xvirus.html

HopelessN00b

Oh, pffft. That's a much less exciting link than it looks like. It didn't even try to give me a virus. :(

Michael Hampton

10:33 PM

@HopelessN00b It's a warning ABOUT the virus. :P If you actually WANT the virus, you can get copies for free all over the internet.

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton Actually, even that's more difficult than it should be. Maybe if I uninstalled my firewall and anti-virus.... and switched to IE 6 I could get one of the virus things that all the cool kids seem to have on their computers.

84104

Plan 9 from Outer Space

Plan 9 from Outer Space (originally titled Grave Robbers from Outer Space) is a 1959 American science fiction film written and directed by Edward D. Wood, Jr. The film features Gregory Walcott, Mona McKinnon, Tor Johnson and Maila "Vampira" Nurmi. The film bills Bela Lugosi posthumously as a star, although silent footage of the actor had been shot by Wood for other, unfinished projects just before Lugosi's death in 1956. The plot of the film involves extraterrestrial beings who are seeking to stop humans from creating a doomsday weapon that would destroy the universe. In the course of do...

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b OK, fine, you can download a copy of the virus at ubuntu.com/download

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b LEAVE GLENDA ALONE!

Michael Hampton

Crap, I'm gonna miss 200 rep today. Again.

Mark Henderson

10:36 PM

@84104 I have a copy of that movie in 720p

It really is as bad as everyone makes it out to be

@MichaelHampton Don't worry, most of us miss it every day

Michael Hampton

Well, most of the rep I DID get today was from old answers.

HopelessN00b

Today was a pretty lousy day for questions, really. I blame the Democrats.

Michael Hampton

Maybe I'll write up my Q&A on my Startup Repair fiasco earlier.

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton O? Did you accidentally put a Windows XP disk in the drive and install that?

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b I accidentally Windows 7.

HopelessN00b

10:41 PM

Could have been worse. Landed between Vista and 8. Imagine if you'd ended up just one version either way. I shudder to think.

voretaq7

Bored? Hungry? Want to earn lots of flag points or some free rep? Visit the Pit of Unanswered Despair and identify good candidates for answering, deleting or migrating to better homes!

HopelessN00b

Iain keeps saying not to flag those, tho.

Also, I'm so much bored or hungry as I am horny. And I'm not confusing those things again - it makes an awful mess.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b well it would be better if you threw close and/or delete votes on them

or edited the good ones so they bubble up to the front page and get attention.

HopelessN00b

Oh, through the review system. I gotcha.

Still don't think it'll do much to help the horny... but I'll try anything once.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b There was an urban legend once about a guy who fucked an apple pie

That might help with the horny

voretaq7

10:52 PM

There once was a couple named Kelly
who lived their lives belly to belly
    because in their haste
    they used library paste
instead of petroleum jelly.

2

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson Don't think I have any pies lying around. And I've been warned that next time I pull my penis out in the grocery store, I'm going to jail... so I think I'll have to try something else.

voretaq7

fine, don't let me make it a reply.

Stupid markdown.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b Whoah, you were given a chance?

It must have been impressive, most people would go straight to jail for that :P

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson I guess no one wants to tackle a naked guy with a boner.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b Especially if your boner has a bright red rash on it

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