The Comms Room

12:00 AM

Maybe Us Windows guys have higher standards. :p

The tag wiki entry containing just that would be a candidate for rejection, but I don't see a serious problem with that excerpt.

HopelessN00b

And Puppet? Hells, no. That would be awful for automated nut-punching. Use something like SCCM. It'll end up nut-punching the guy for 4 hours, fail with a driver error and start all over again next reboot.

sbs2011 Microsoft Windows Small Business Server 2011

Really? I think that's bloody awful. Guess I'll have to do it myself to show you what a good one looks like. :p

Oh, for what it's worth, windows-sbs-2008 has a good excerpt and wiki. Who ever did that tag must really kick ass.

George Edison

I'm having some problems installing a Python module. I'm using 'python setup.py install --user' to install the module locally.

running install
Checking .pth file support in ~/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/
 -E -c pass
unable to execute : No such file or directory
error: command '' failed with exit status 1

Shane Madden

@Zypher Oh nice, when?

HopelessN00b

GAH! You need a score of 5 in a tag to suggest a synonym? That's awful.

Shane Madden

12:09 AM

@HopelessN00b Yeah, it's terrible.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b If I meet the guy that did that wiki I would give him a dollar

Sadly Revision #1 belongs to 'community'

HopelessN00b

Damn straight. It's like stripper-money good, init?

@MarkHenderson (or anyone with a 5 score in this hideous tag) Could you please suggest a synonym for windows-sbs-2008 ? I'm thinking the much less used, and less useful sbs-2008 Would make a good candidate.

Oh, ewwww. Now I gotta ask an SBS question to sort create the right tags for SBS? Excuse me while I go figure one out, and do that. And then shower.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b windows-sbs-2008 is the one with the tag wiki though

Feel like recreating it? ;)

HopelessN00b

I though making sbs-2008 a synonym of windows-sbs-2008 would redirect TO windows-sbs-2008. No?

Shane Madden

The sbs tags are always a mess

8

Q: Tag merge request for Microsoft Windows Small Business Server tags

Here is a list for Microsoft Small Business Server tags that do not mention version number: sbs x 46 sbs-server x 2 small-business-server x 96 Here is a list of all SBS tags that I can find which are version specific: sbs-2000 sbs2003 sbs-2003 sbs-2008 windows-sbs-2008 sbs-2011 Let's come...

Mark Henderson

12:20 AM

@HopelessN00b It would if you made it in that order, yes

Catch is the system prefers the tag with more questions

Even if it's wrong

I think mods can override that though

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson Gah, of course.

Kitty Kat had the right idea a year ago, though.

Chris S

@HopelessN00b @MarkHenderson @ShaneMadden windows-sbs-2008 is the "official" correct tag.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b wtf... something bad has happened with that merge

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson Jup, definitely looks like the system prefers the wrong tag. Shoulda saved the wiki off

Gah, always do backups! You'd think we should know better, eh? :)

Mark Henderson

I merged from as @ChrisS suggested, but now the windows-sbs-2008 goes to sbs-2008 and gives a 404....

Chris S

12:25 AM

@MarkHenderson I already merged the other way.

It's correct. No worries.

Mark Henderson

It is?

It's showing broken for me, lol

HopelessN00b

Broken for me two. Lemme check in a different browser.

Yup, windows-sbs-2008 redirects to sbs-2008 in a new, unlogged in browser session too (IE9, ick).

Does show 0 questions tagged with that tag, instead of 250, though. Which is odd.

Joel E Salas

Holy crap I killed Opsview. Kind of proud of myself.

Chris S

@HopelessN00b Erm, seems to work fine for me... I tried refreshing and all that.

Tried a different browser, still working correctly.

WesleyDavid

@HopelessN00b How many times did you reboot?

HopelessN00b

12:32 AM

@WesleyDavid Just twice, so maybe that's the issue. I'll reboot a couple more... duh, no I'll check form my laptop.

Mark Henderson

0

Q: I think I broke the SBS-2008 tag

OK, so after discussions in chat about the future of sbs-2008, I created a tag synonym the wrong way, from sbs-2008 <-- windows-sbs-2008 . Realising I made the wrong one, I went to the mod tools and hit "swap". Everything reflected correctly in the Tag Synonyms console, so I merged the two tag...

support tag-synonyms

Zypher

@shane ... Just landed :)

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson Shoulda blamed it on me. I seem to be bad juju for systems. I get near 'em, bam, they eff up. They only behave once I beat some sense in to them so they learn not to cross me again.

Chris S

@MarkHenderson Have you rebooted 3 times yet?

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS Nope cos Im waiting for a batch to finish, but I went into porn-mode which is equivalent to the same thing

HopelessN00b

12:40 AM

@ChrisS Doin' it from my just booted up laptop too.

Chris S

@MarkHenderson In porn mode your normal cache/history is still available. Just nothing you do gets written back to the cache/history.

So you just double tested the same thing.

HopelessN00b

And my lappy?

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS Oh. Ok well let me see if I can find a condom to put over my ethernet cable and fire up IE

No dice, just tried it in IE (which should on its own indicate that it has a completely empty cache and browser history) and I'm still seeing the bad redirect — Mark Henderson 1 min ago

Shane Madden

@Zypher How long are you in town for this time?

Chris S

@MarkHenderson I just pulled up lynx on two different servers, still no redirect.

HopelessN00b

12:47 AM

The thing is, though... unlike all the other sbs tags which got merged into their proper format, sbs-2008 still shows as existing. Odd. And that's from my just booted up, never logged into SF from it before laptop, which does redirect.

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS Weird. So you're seeing a correct windows-sbs-2008 tag with 250 questions in the list?

So far you're the only one who is seeing it correctly :p

Zypher

@shane have a qurter of 11am flight out friday

HopelessN00b

I can't help but notice he's also the one who already merged it the other way. Seems more than coincidental to me.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Well I suspect there's nothing we can do until someone from SE proper comes along and fixes it

HopelessN00b

Ooooo, conflicting mod actions. Which one wins out?

Chris S

12:51 AM

@MarkHenderson Yep, correct on FF and IE on my computer, Lynx on two server, my Android....

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS You're actually clicking on the tag and looking at the question list?

Chris S

@MarkHenderson Yes. windows-sbs-2008 <-- That works 100%, no redirect.

sbs-2008 <-- This doesn't redirect, it should... Needs to be fixed I think.

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS Well... you're just special

HopelessN00b

Oh, weird. Actually, it works from my droid. Kinda. I can see the proper question list, at least, just can't access the tag-wiki itself.

Chris S

tag-wiki works for me

Mark Henderson

12:55 AM

@HopelessN00b Maybe we're hitting different web servers then and there might be inconsistancies between them.

HopelessN00b

Yeah, be my guess too.

Mark Henderson

@Zypher - do you stick sessions to a single server, or do they float around like pixies looking for some smack?

Chris S

@MarkHenderson Oh that just brought back some really good memories... Ah the good old days.

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS I'm curious about which part of that sentence brought back memories...

HopelessN00b

@ChrisS You used to smack pixies around too? Whyever did you stop?

Chris S

12:57 AM

@MarkHenderson I don't think I have any "really good memories" of servers sessions.... soooo

Shane Madden

@Zypher Gotcha. Not sure if I'll be free to grab a beer tomorrow evening - I'll let you know

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS Pixies, or smack?

Chris S

Pixies looking for smack ;]

And other things...

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS Junkies provide you with good memories... ok... moving on...

HopelessN00b

Oh, that's queer. If I click the edit link, it takes me to the proper tag-wiki....

Shane Madden

12:59 AM

I vote 'wacky cache'

HopelessN00b

though, the link under it still says "8 questions asked this year" instead of 250.

Chris S

You two are on a farked webserver.... Where'd @Zypher go?

Mark Henderson

@ShaneMadden Definately. Although I took my phone off WiFi and onto 3G and Im still getting a bad redirect

Could be coincidence though

HopelessN00b

Oh, is @Zypher the guy who needs to reboot the server? That should clear it up, right? :D

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Remember, your phone has a cache, too.

Mark Henderson

1:04 AM

@MichaelHampton Yes, I remembered that, and I cleared it ;)

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Finally, remember that Stack Exchange is caching.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b Yes. Hey @Zypher - can you reboot all of the SE web servers for us? kkthxbye

@MichaelHampton Yah, we think thats the problem we're having. In fact I believe they cache at many steps of the road, including caching data that would normally go to SQL in redis

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson Don't be silly. Not all of Stack Exchange, just the server that's misbehaving. If he does staggered reboots, and reboots all of them one at a time, he'll sure to get the bad one and fix the problem.

Zypher

Hey im in denver - had nothing to do with that

Mark Henderson

So for all I know I could be hitting an out of date redis cache, an out of date cache by our office proxy, or my browser caches

@HopelessN00b Don't forget to reboot them twice, or three times

Shane Madden

1:07 AM

App Pool Recycling is for suckers. Just reboot your IIS servers every 20 minutes or so.

(Java servlet engines too)

HopelessN00b

Don't think it's browser-caching, though. My never vistied SF laptop got misbehaviour, as did my never-visited the site from Chrome desktop browser... but my Droid I was on the site with at lunch didn't misbehave. Gotta be server-side.

@MarkHenderson At least. They're Linux, right? So the multiple rebooting is required to load the right stuff into the swap partition. I think the optimal number of reboots for that is 4.6, so round up to 5.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b Nope, Windows

Michael Hampton

Nope, Stack Exchange is a Windows shop. Boo.

HopelessN00b

Oh, then 2 or 3 reboots should do it. That pagefile.sys thing needs less reboots to cache the proper stuff.

Shane Madden

Someone squashed their Server: response header, but the Set-Cookie: .ASPXBrowserOverride=; is a giveaway.

Michael Hampton

1:12 AM

@ShaneMadden So is all the talk about migrating to SQL Server 2012.

HopelessN00b

(I could swear I read something one one of the blogs about SE using cacti for their graphing, though.)

Shane Madden

@MichaelHampton Well, or the infrastructure diagram ;)

Michael Hampton

Yeah, that too. I'm amazed that SE works at all.

HopelessN00b

Though, now that you mention it, I do recall skipping over the SQL 2012 thing. I'll get around to reading it when my shop's ready to upgrade to SQL 2012, sometime around 2018, if all goes well.

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Don't be silly. They'll be out of business before then.

HopelessN00b

1:14 AM

Not likely. As justified as that may be...

Journeyman Geek

2:03 AM

lol

they DO use linux for their load balancers

but they're a good example of going with what they know, and the folks who founded SE are windows programmers.

Mark Henderson

@JourneymanGeek It's all gone back to normal now anyway, it must have been something stuck in an SE cache

HopelessN00b

0

Q: Hardening Windows 8

I am looking for any documentation that may exist for hardening Windows 8 installations. I have looked at many of the traditional sources for such things and cannot locate anything. At this point, I would be interested in anything that is office or unofficial.

windows-8

Does this happen in the Linux world too, or just Windows?

"[blah] is being officially released in 28 days! Who's done any hardening on it?"

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b Honestly, Windows generally ships in a reasonably secure manner. As secure as any Linux distro anyway.

HopelessN00b

Yeah, since Vista at least. That said, there's nothing wrong with a little hardening, it's just the whole... "oh, it's almost released, who knows everything about it already that takes months or years to learn" thing that leaves me scratching my head.

Joel E Salas

Who wants a job?

Shane Madden

2:11 AM

It's not like it's very different.

"Same stuff as hardening Windows 7" is an answer that I'd upvote.

Mark Henderson

@JoelESalas Depends. Is it shoveling human excrement?

If so, then fuck yeah I'm in

HopelessN00b

@ShaneMadden Except that we don't know that yet. It's new kernel revision, has a new FS, and other factors no one's been able to test in depth on yet. It should be more or less the same as Windows 7, but "more or less" doesn't strike me as hardening, or... well, an answer worth giving, I guess.

@JoelESalas Depends on what the job is. Better or worse than the one I got now, for example?

Joel E Salas

@HopelessN00b Heavy on the Linux administration and deployment automation

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas Sure. I could do a very mediocre to sub-par job at that kinda thing. :)

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b thats cool, just ask a poorly worded and formatted question on SF omitting all relevant details

Anyone can be an SA if they follow that one important step!

HopelessN00b

2:17 AM

Woohoo! I'm a shoe-in, I knew it. What's it pay? 200, 300 grand?

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b $7.50/hr + equity

HopelessN00b

Would be funny if it wasn't so close to being true, I suspect.

ewwhite

2:36 AM

a job?

Paul Ryan is speaking!

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Don't jump at it too fast... I had one of those job things once... they're really not that great.

ewwhite

I decided to take one.

start in a few weeks

HopelessN00b

Oh noes! Whatever made you do a thing like that?

ewwhite

becoming stagnant.

The Republican convention is grating on me.

HopelessN00b

Could be worse. Could have had a presidential visit shut down the only way home that doesn't involve going in a 30 mile circle around the security zone.

How the fuck does anyone think that's a good idea to get votes?

Mark Henderson

2:46 AM

@HopelessN00b Well, maybe not so interestingly, a recent poll showed that if Australians were allowed to vote in the US election, a staggering 72% of us would vote for Obama

ewwhite

I think that makes sense... the conservatives here are an odd mix of policies and traits.

puritans, fiscal conservatives, disenfranchised southern white people, small-government folks, single-issue voters...

HopelessN00b

Enh, I tend to think he'll get crushed just as a result of 4 years of the worst economic performance since the end of the great depression.

Not that I give a fuck either way, given that they're all the same anyway, but it would be great it if I didn't have to drive an hour out my way because some prick threw a "vote for me" pep rally in my neighborhood.

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: eh, part of the 'problem' with the US system is that you only think you have two choices, and they arn't THAT different

ewwhite

In practice, they may not be different, but there are some serious divisions here.

Mark Henderson

@JourneymanGeek Thats pretty normal everywhere I think. It's certainly the same here. Only two real candidates and they both blow pretty hard

ewwhite

2:50 AM

For instance, the Romney/Ryan pairing has something like 0% of the Black vote...

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek Yup. and the problem with a multi-party system is that the minority parties and extremists wield disproportionate political power. No way around it, politics suck.

@ewwhite Yeah, well how many African Americans are going to vote for any white guy over a black guy, honestly?

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: not always. Then again, I'm apparently a libertarian, though a slightly less fringy one.

ewwhite

0% - unprecedented

HopelessN00b

Huffington post? left wing cheering section. I'll pass, and consider the source.

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: well, according to who?

ewwhite

2:52 AM

@HopelessN00b it's that the Romney/Ryan ticket is unappealing... in a number of ways. @JourneymanGeek - Even Bush and McCain mustered 3-4% support.

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek Almost always. Unless there's a single party majority, then the minority parties get to wield disproportionate influence as part of a deal to create a majority government in a coalition. :) I've lived under a multi-party system ya know.

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: oh, we have a single party majority

and, having slightly more opposition members than usual is giving them headaches

but I'd think that in a presidential election, having more candidates is good

you're voting for one guy

ewwhite

What's happening in the US system is each side is painting the other as EVIL. When you do that, there's no way you can compromise or reason with EVIL

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Whole history of politics. Nothing new, and nothing limited to the US.

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, no arguments here. I won't vote Dem or Rep either... which means I just don't bother, since it's not going to make a difference anyway.

Just saying the "other" way isn't exactly problem-free either.

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: thats the thing tho, Dem/Rep is a false dichotomy

ewwhite

2:56 AM

It's particularly bad now. When you see the GOP saying F-it... our path to the presidency is to try to garner the white vote and pass on the minorities, women, youth...

Journeyman Geek

(as is black or white, or liberal or concervative)

Michael Hampton

Look at how "heartless" the Republicans are... bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19418900

Journeyman Geek

It needs to be 'is this the best guy to represent my interests'

ewwhite

@JourneymanGeek what are your interests?

I mean, technically, I should be a republican... I've been in the 1% for the past 5-6 years... I'm taxed heavily. I don't mind. I've been lucky. I guess I run a business, but see that it's no fun doing well when so many other people are struggling.

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: well, I'm libertarian. I'd like my government (in singapore) to act less like a nannystate. I'm also concerned with free speech issues, immigration as a shortcut to short term economic growth - and related human rights issues. I believe the government has also made several long range mistakes due to their nanny-stateness

HopelessN00b

3:00 AM

Aye. But there's no political party big enough to matter that runs on a platform of.... reducing its own power and influence, which is why that doesn't work too well.

If only it did, but, it doesn't, so we're relegated to picking the guy that'll fuck us the the least, or fuck us in the slightly more palatable way.

Journeyman Geek

On the other hand, while its a nanny state, it ALSO has dismantled much of the social safety net there was before, and has been, through its policies, causing a housing bubble. On a short term, they might need to work out how to balance having government housing as an investment, and afforability

locally, the opposition tends to split up wards. as far as local political parties go, SDP has the closest ideological viewpoint. I'd happily vote for the workers party cause they've been doing an amazing job this parliment

ewwhite

In the US... do we have a nanny-state? Sometimes, yes... Sometimes no...

Joel E Salas

@ewwhite Congrats on the job! Who finally nabbed you?

ewwhite

One of the jobs that shows up on the right-hand side of Server Fault.

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Or depends a lot on where you live, but mostly "yes."

ewwhite

3:03 AM

When Conservatives speak of "freedom", what are they referring to?

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: As i see it, a government has a responsibility to its people

neither US political party has that

nor mine, though they did in the early years

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Not that I'm a conservative, but I'd ask a similar question of liberals.

It really is like deciding between which sexual position you're going to take while getting ass-raped.

Journeyman Geek

oh ya. and anyone who's willing to get our asses back into space gets my vote ;p

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b Liberals aren't concerned about freedom.

More about fairness... civil rights...

@HopelessN00b Freedom to buy lots of guns?

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Why I said `similar` and not `same` .

And freedom from government interference is what I believe they're generally referring too. Though for how big government even they are these days, I get kinda confused on that point myself.

ewwhite

3:13 AM

What type of interference?

I could agree with opposition to regulations and bureaucracy, but seeing the GOP efforts at voter suppression and curbing other rights.... it's quite awful.

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: actually gun control is one of those things.

Michael Hampton

I can find stuff to complain about from both parties. Which is exactly the problem. They're both about half right and half wrong. If only we could get a party that was 100% wrong and another that was 100% right...

Journeyman Geek

I'd buy a gun if it was legal here.. cause shooting targets is hugely fun

Michael Hampton

@JourneymanGeek I control my guns with a firm, two-handed grip.

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelHampton: I'm somewhat sad that I have a non combat job as a reservist

HopelessN00b

3:20 AM

@MichaelHampton Damn straight. Gun control means hitting your target with each shot.

ewwhite

@JourneymanGeek I don't see gun laws as being particularly restrictive.

I've been shooting... It's not difficult to buy here.

Michael Hampton

Try living in Chicago.

ewwhite

I do.

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: well, to some extent there's a whole hysteria about it on both sides

ewwhite

(suburb)

Michael Hampton

3:21 AM

Aha, that's why. Until a couple of years ago you couldn't even bring one home if you lived in the city.

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite When you consider that all political power is ultimately dependent on physical force... what's not restrictive about them?

If guns are so bad, I'll throw mine away as soon as the government throws theirs away too.

Journeyman Geek

assault weapons? They DO realise military weapons operate under a set of rules that make them less effective than civilian weapons

@HopelessN00b: not necessary just physical

its also social and psycological force

Michael Hampton

"Assault weapon" is a phrase meant to scare people who don't know anything about guns.

Journeyman Geek

precisely

then there's the brits...

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek Not to mention that the legal definition of an "assault weapon" bears no resemblance whatsoever to any actual functional differences, but are mostly cosmetic.

Journeyman Geek

3:23 AM

POINTY KNIVES ARE DANGEROUS

@HopelessN00b: precisely why its stupid

HopelessN00b

You can be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon in the UK if you have a screwdriver in your pocket. True story. Result of "knife control."

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: my swiss army knife is illegal in the UK ;p

though, singaporean knife laws are suitably vague

Michael Hampton

Pop quiz. What's the difference between a hunting rifle and a sniper rifle?

HopelessN00b

And @JourneymanGeek Actually, the root of all power is the ability to do physical force. It's rooted very deeply in our primitive brains and a billion years of evolution. When the metal meets the grindstone, I have power over you if, and only if, I can make you do, by physical force, what I want you to.

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelHampton: not very much

@HopelessN00b: I disagree. Social cohersion works too

Michael Hampton

3:25 AM

@JourneymanGeek The hunting rifle has a wood finish, and the sniper rifle is black.

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton Well, I don't go hunting with a ,50 cal Beretta, but I suspect that's not the point you're making...

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: supposely those are VERY useful with hunting very large boar

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek And form where does social coercion draw its power? From the fact that a large group of people can easily apply overwhelming physical force to any single individual.

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: thats assuming we act only on lizard brains

I could walk outside wearing a skirt

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek NO. They just make a huge mess on any animal or person. They're really a small anti-materiel rifle.

Journeyman Geek

3:27 AM

I don't (well other than I'd look silly) because I'm concerned with what people would think

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek Oh, you have some compelling evidence that we don't all act on our primitive lizard brains?

Mark Henderson

@JourneymanGeek Scottish men go out wearing skirts regularly

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: well, thats part of the point. apparently you arn't allowed to eat them, or they're inedible, and they're supposed to be a pest

@MarkHenderson: they're scottish.

Michael Hampton

Scottish men are inedible, and sometimes pests.

Journeyman Geek

are YOU going to go tell him he's wearing a skirt? ;p

HopelessN00b

3:29 AM

@JourneymanGeek Lizard brain again. Acceptance in the larger group is a survival behavior. If you are accepted into the group, you enjoy its protection. If not, you may be its next target.

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelHampton: its legal to shoot scots in some parts of england

HopelessN00b

At best, it's harder to make it on your own than it is with a group behind you.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b But what about when the group is filled with assholes?

HopelessN00b

Social norms and mores, lizard brain behavior too.

@MarkHenderson Given the choice, I'd rather have the assholes protecting me than preying on me. You wouldn't? :)

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b Honestly, it would seriously depend on the situation

I am very picky about who I choose to associate with

If I were in a war-ravaged situation and there's a high likelyhood that I'm going to die, then yes, of course

But if I'm just out with my friends, and my friends were being assholes, I would leave

HopelessN00b

3:37 AM

Well sure. In that scenario, leaving doesn't mean banishment from the tribe. JourneymanGeeks example is a much better one for involving the possibility of being shunned.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b I dunno, I wasn't really paying attention, I was just being devils advocate

When people start talking about guns I tune out :p

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson I do the same thing when people start talking about Group Policy and Active Directory.

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton To be fair, I even think most Windows admins do as well

ewwhite

Ouch.

Michael Hampton

3:56 AM

Besides, I find that guns are of vital importance in the system administrator's overall toolbox.

They're about the only way to fix a Macintosh, for instance.

Mark Henderson

I dunno. I just don't find guns interesting. My wife said that if we move to the US she wants to learn how to shoot and buy a gun, so maybe I was born with a vagina, who knows

Michael Hampton

That part I agree with: One should not own a gun without at least basic training.

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton I can honestly say I don't think I've ever even seen a gun in real life, with the exception of being on a policemans belt

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Tell your wife to join a pistol club. They will give her training and help her apply for a NSW firearms licence.

Mark Henderson

4:18 AM

@MichaelHampton Did you really just research how to get a gun license here? ;)

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Not really, I've had the question come up before.

Mark Henderson

We've actually investigated it. It's approximately a 12-month waiting period to get your application processed

Michael Hampton

True, but you can still be a probationary member of the club and take training during that time.

Mark Henderson

Couple of interesting stats came up about gun ownership in Australia lately. After a massacre in 1996 the government had an amnesty and a buyback scheme, where 700,000 guns were (allegedly) destroyed. But last year, we imported 750,000 guns alone

There were no numbers about how many were military weapons (assault rifles etc), or were for hunting/security etc

Michael Hampton

ewwhite

4:21 AM

I'm not sure I understand gun culture.

Michael Hampton

Those guns are going somewhere.

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton Thats SOP

@ewwhite Me neither. I guess I do on a primeval level, the ability to kill something and cause massive damage. But I like to think I've evolved past that, at least a little bit

ewwhite

@MarkHenderson Does the rest of the world look at the US and think, WTF?

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite Well, when arguments like "If everyone had guns, there would be no gun crime" surface, yes we do

ewwhite

@MarkHenderson We had an interesting one in New York last week.

Mark Henderson

4:25 AM

We also say "wtf" when you repeatedly have massacres in public, but it doesn't seem like anyone ever does anything about it

Michael Hampton

OH yes. Some disgruntled employee shoots his ex-boss, so the cops shoot him and a bunch of innocent bystanders.

ewwhite

Guy shoots someone in the middle of the day... near the Empire State Building...

Yesh...

So there's outrage...

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite Ah yes I did hear about that, but only because I happened to be reading an article on The Onion about it

It didn't make the mainstream media here

Michael Hampton

The media doesn't like to talk about things that make the cops look bad. :)

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton Oh, here they do

Sometimes I think the News Corp hate the police here

Michael Hampton

4:27 AM

Oh, that's News Corp.

Mark Henderson

But more and more of our police are being equipped with tasers rather than pistols

Michael Hampton

I can wholeheartedly agree with the police being disarmed. Most of them don't need them, and apparently can't handle them.

Mark Henderson

We tend to think that capital punishment is also massively unjust, especially as it seems to be the fundamentalist christian states who execute people

ewwhite

The NYC thing was tricky. Gun fight in the middle of morning rush hour.

@MarkHenderson We like jailing people, it seems. Good business.

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite One of the very first things us normal people learn in basic firearm training is to know your target AND what's behind it.

ewwhite

4:29 AM

@MichaelHampton So you think it was poor shooting?

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton Although I don't believe that video games cause violent behaviour, I do believe that they have given people false expectations of what happens when you shoot someone

ewwhite

@MarkHenderson From the movies...

"wait, the bullets keep going?!?"

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite It wouldn't be the first time. One thing I do know is that everyone I know has more and better firearms training than most police.

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite - op has asked us to nuke this question:

1

Q: Taking two actions in monit

My monit script works to detect an outage with a process and inform me when the rule is: IF DOES NOT EXIST THEN ALERT My monit script works to detect an outage and automatically fix it when the rule is: IF DOES NOT EXIST THEN START But, what I want it to do is inform me AND fix it. Two...

monit

Do you mind if I nuke it with your +2 accepted answer?

Michael Hampton

Of course, that may be because I know the owners of the local pistol club...

Mark Henderson

4:32 AM

Or should I advise him that cos its got an upvoted and accepted answer we should leave it

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Still awake?

ewwhite

I'd leave it... since it helps to know you can take multiple actions.

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite Shall do

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Do you have a brother named Terry?

ewwhite

A lot of Monit questions... I'd like to see some complex sample configs.

WesleyDavid

4:33 AM

Or a family member?

ewwhite

@WesleyDavid Why?

WesleyDavid

Know of a guy in Chicago named Terry White who's a big photographer / Adobe evangelist.

ewwhite

No, no relation.

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid I know a guy called Chris Black, but he's the whitest guy on the planet

ewwhite

In Conservative-speak, what does "take our country back" mean?

WesleyDavid

4:36 AM

@ewwhite It means guns and minimum wage I think... ?

Mark Henderson

Funnily enough, he married a full african woman, who is as dark as they come. So her surname is now Black. She said that she often gets strange looks when she introduces herself

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Conservatives feel as if they are constant victims of a liberal majority that want to take away personal rights, freedoms and choices. Conservatives of late seem to be intimidated by... well... I don't know really. They don't have much to be intimidated by.

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite I'd ask "take it back from whom?"

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite You act like the US is the only place with a gun culture. Lots of European countries have very high gun ownership too... Switzerland, Norway, Finland, etc. In fact, because Swiss men are required to serve in the national militia, and have the option to keep their equipment, a lot of Swiss civilians legally own fully automatic, military grade small arms.

WesleyDavid

I say that as a former conservative republican from a near-fringe Conservative family.

HopelessN00b

4:37 AM

(Not to steer the convo back to that, just pointing out that gun prohibition is actually very recent, and not universal by any means.)

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b We have an odd gun culture. I look to Canada, and they love their guns... but they're not constantly worried about losing them.

WesleyDavid

@HopelessN00b The Swiss gun laws are very differernt though. Comparing gun ownership percentages seems to be a bad metric.

ewwhite

And barring Chicago, it doesn't seem to be a big issue elsewhere.

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Because they've already been taken away. I'm from Canada. Owning a gun up there is more of a pain in the ass than it's worth.

WesleyDavid

Where's @LucasKauffman when you need a Belgian to talk guns with?!

Belgians make some sweet-ass weaponry.

ewwhite

4:41 AM

@WesleyDavid This campaign is interesting because it's like the last-effort... demographic changes are coming. I think it's taking the country back from... immigrants, people of colour, Barack... The constitution is being held up as a religious text.

HopelessN00b

Indeed they do. Of course, thanks to American gun laws, you can't buy the fun new toys. Legally. As a civilian. Shame, really. Being relegated to old guns from before 3 decades ago is really... Meh.

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b Is it for the skill in shooting? Hunting? Or protection?

HopelessN00b

Is what?

WesleyDavid

If conservatives that are so worried about government healthcare encroaching on personal freedoms would turn their sights on the Patriot Act as well as Insurance/Pharma meathooks in the government's neck, I might take them seriously.

ewwhite

The appeal... I could see a mechanical person loving the technology, craftsmanship and design aspect. But there's also the skill involved...

HopelessN00b

4:43 AM

@WesleyDavid an dif liberals would stop trying to force "help" I don't want down my throat, they might be worth taking seriously.

"God protect me for those who would protect me from myself" and all.

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b What type of health?

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite I really have no clue what the conservative movement is all about these days. I'm so far removed from any political interest these days that I'm really out of touch with any party or movement. The Romney support seems to be a SNL skit... just horribly unfunny.

@ewwhite Weapons appeal to me mostly for protection. However, I don't own one yet because I don't have enough training to feel responsible enough to own one. I know plenty of guys that open carry at my church though, however they're all ex-military or have gone through some pretty strict training. I think all the people I know that carry/own are pretty responsible that way.

ewwhite

What's the open-carry about? It's a little awkward.

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite It's a lot of things, but the best way to know is to experience it. (Probably not in Chicago), but spend a week a with a gun. Carry it with you in whatever legal fashion is permitted, see if you don't feel safer and more confident. Take it out to the range, or the country and shoot at some targets, see if that's not a pleasant and... serene experience. Examine it, learn how to maintain and use it.

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite Open carry is when somebody can see that you have a firearm.

WesleyDavid

4:47 AM

But IMO a gun will be my fourth line of defense of my person and loved ones. The first being making the house less of a target (lit, locked, with sharp pointy bushes around the windows), the second being a dog (a big one that barks and bites), the third being personal martial disciplines (krav, judo).

HopelessN00b

There's a beauty in the action of the slide and the crack of the bullet, and the way that feels in your hand... it's just... it's very must be experienced to be understood.

Michael Hampton

And trust me, there's absolutely nothing like the feeling of putting extra holes into a Windows DVD.

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Yeah, seems a little over the top sometimes, but I respect it and tend to support it as long as the person isn't a yahoo that has adequacy issues. So far those are the minority.

ewwhite

Well, I've spent my time in Texas with people and their concealed-carry...

Shane Madden

256GB of VM takes too long to vmotion over slow network.

That's my contribution to the political discourse ;)

HopelessN00b

4:48 AM

@ewwhite mostly because most states ban or restrict concealed carry. So the only legal way to have a gun on you is if it's plainly visible. I think it's dumb too, but am not doing 5 years in the slammer to make a point.

rnxrx

Also potentially a really neat historical aspect - old-school craftsmanship of rifles from WWI, WW II or even earlier

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b I go shooting at a range in LA.

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Texas. It's like a whole other country

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Ever spend a day carrying one?

ewwhite

I've learned a little... became a regular thing with my old college roommate.

Mark Henderson

4:48 AM

Anyone know of a good way of visualising the individual port traffic on a 48-port switch?

ewwhite

But no, never spent a full day with one.

Mark Henderson

i.e. all at once, to show the entire throughput of the switch at any given moment, and preferably, show each individual port?

WesleyDavid

@HopelessN00b Plus some states require the weapon to be unloaded while it's being openly carried.

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson cacti.

ewwhite

@MarkHenderson Observium... is handy for that.

Mark Henderson

4:49 AM

As what? A stacked line chart?

rnxrx

@MarkHenderson What would that visualization even mean? By definition the input traffic on the switch is also output traffic

Mark Henderson

@rnxrx Honestly? Nothing. It impresses customers when they want to see our monitoring systems.

ewwhite

@mark here's from a Cisco 4507...

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite @Polo!

Oh wait.

Mark Henderson

I want to be able to show them that we can spot who is hogging bandwidth/network traffic in a way that their simple brains can understand

rnxrx

4:50 AM

ahh... go for stack graphs with a custom cacti template, then

ewwhite

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite thats exactly what I'm after

rnxrx

might be more interesting to put up Netflow top talkers?

Mark Henderson

Looks like a stacked line graph it is. We do that for ingress/egress at the edge, but we don't bother for internal networks cos I didn't think it would be that useful

@rnxrx No netflow on these switches

SNMP baby ;)

rnxrx

go for ntop - generate your own netflow

also check to see if your switch does RMON

ewwhite

4:52 AM

@MarkHenderson observium.org/wiki/Main_Page - Pretty-enough graphs. Great for this type of thing. Can do realtime (.5 second) charting of ports.

rnxrx

observium is pretty impressive - especially given how young it is

ewwhite

@rnxrx Just no alerts...

rnxrx

@ewwhite Yeah.. a lot of stuff I wish it had, but the things they have done they've done well

kind of a rare thing, especially for open source monitoring sw

HopelessN00b

Oh, hell... it's 1 in the morning. I need to get some sleep if I'm going to stay awake filling out bullshit paperwork tomorrow. Have a good one, all.

ewwhite

@rnxrx It's not bad. I never look at it, though... just leave it running in the back ground

WesleyDavid

4:55 AM

Okay deskphone, why did you not send me that voicemail for 11 days. >_<

Shoot, I just noticed the VM light flashing. It wasn't flashing for weeks!!

rnxrx

I've been back and forth over the various flavors of Nagios, opennms, zabbix, etc and most are still kind of painful

ewwhite

I use Monit+OpenNMS+Orca+Observium

sucks.

Michael Hampton

Somebody was swearing by Opsview.

ewwhite

All of these tools work... Monit for application and daemon monitoring, OpenNMS for alerts and notification. Orca for good graphing. Observium for network-centric graphs

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