Mathematics - 2012-03-16 (page 4 of 6)

t.b.

2:00 PM

@Ben: I have no idea what you want to know from me and I don't want to read the whole thing now.

Rajesh D

@Ilya why don't you go out and take a pic of yourself with a completely stranger girl and post it here

Benjamin Lim

@tb Ok no worries :D

t.b.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I have to go in a few minutes...

Ilya

@RajeshD wow, you're an evil guy. I can do it, but you don't play :D

Benjamin Lim

Ok don't worry man

Kannappan Sampath

2:01 PM

There again, I had a downvoter!

Benjamin Lim

Life is good, may you be happy

Ilya

@tb don't worry

Matt N.

@tb It's ok. We'll come up with a question and we'll ask you tomorrow (or whenever you return) : )

t.b.

@MattN Okay. Fine with me. Later today or tomorrow. Don't know yet.

Ilya

@KannappanSampath and..... Buy a downvoter spray!

t.b.

2:02 PM

Have fun :)

Matt N.

And you : )

Ilya

Axe Upvote - attracts upvotes, not girls!

@tb: see you and have a nice weekend

Benjamin Lim

enjoy the weekend theo

t.b.

I will :)

Matt N.

@tb Sure : ) strokes white cat

Now @Ilya. Before I dare you to do something stupid: let's figure out a personal question.

Kannappan Sampath

2:03 PM

The other answer is ridiculous. Nothing more than the comment I left an hour ago. I could not write up a whole answer as I had class. People here are ridiculous.

t.b.

ducks away

Ilya

@MattN go ahead

@MattN yes. why?

Matt N.

@RajeshD ?

Kannappan Sampath

People, I am serious. Is $i(m)$ not a standard notation for $\mod m$.

Rajesh D

@Matt : ????

Ilya

2:05 PM

??????
PROFIT!

@Matt: done. Are you there?

Matt N.

@KannappanSampath I've never seen it before.

Ilya

@KannappanSampath $i$ for India?

Matt N.

@Ilya Yes sorry. Multitasking is difficult.

Rajesh D

im instant messaging

Hhhahhhaaaa...

@Matt

ymar

I've failed complex analysis. I have to decide: vodka or a hooker. I don't have the money for both.

Ilya

2:09 PM

@ymar: hey, Poland

ymar

Hi @Ilya

Matt N.

@ymar Hooker.

ymar

@MattN Thy will be done.

Matt N.

@ymar Have fun! : )

ymar

@MattN Thanks.

Rajesh D

2:11 PM

@ymar : Why not take a book on complex analysis and do a reading ?

ymar

@RajeshD Too late for that. I've already failed.

Matt N.

@Ilya I dare you to come to Zurich (while dragging Jonas along) and go out for drinks.

Ilya

@MattN sometime I will

Matt N.

That's doesn't make the dare pact fulfilled though.

Ilya

:3846540 the worst. What did you mean?

Rajesh D

2:14 PM

???

What

??

Ilya

with the worst and on the second place stuff

Kannappan Sampath

This site treats its users ridiculously!

Ilya

@MattN well, I told you that I will do it. But you didn't specify the date in your dare, did you?

Rajesh D

@Kannappan : Why

cool what happened /

Matt N.

@Ilya Well if you do it in 20 years it won't be interesting anymore. Because I won't be here anymore.

Kannappan Sampath

2:15 PM

I am in no mood to reply. I am not going to delete the user either. The best is to stop answering on the site.

Rajesh D

which user ??

Ilya

@Kan: through this shit out of your head. Don't give a fuck about others. Even about me. Even about what I've just said.

ymar

@MattN Are planning on dying?

Matt N.

@ymar No, leaving. Soon.

Ilya

@MattN I think I will do it in next 2 years - does it fit you?

Matt N.

2:17 PM

@KannappanSampath Why not just sit back and relax? What happened this time?

@Ilya No, I want to leave here at the end of this year.

ymar

OK, see you guys.

Kannappan Sampath

Can someone read the answer and see if the comment expresses anything valid about why the post should downvoted. I did my best to explain things.

Ilya

@MattN where? Are you in gtalk?

Matt N.

@Ilya Yes.

: )

Rajesh D

@Kanna : link plz

Kannappan Sampath

2:20 PM

-1

A: Homomorphism between cyclic groups

I am not sure if this completely explains why the naive calculations in $(1)$ are not valid. Here is my go at it: I'll list down several points of concern. Firstly your map $x^i \mapsto y^i$ is very naive that it misses some essential details. For convenience of notation, I prefer to loo...

Bye folks.

Matt N.

@KannappanSampath See you later!

Rajesh D

@Kanna : I do not know the subject matter......but people do make mistake and downvote.....Have patience.......and do not take things seriously.....

Kannappan Sampath

Well, I am keeping my head cool this time. It upsets when people give you ridiculous reasons you know.

Rajesh D

@Kanna Thats life

Matt N.

@KannappanSampath Yes. Don't take it so seriously. This is just a website with random people on.

2

Heh. Back he is.

t.b.

2:26 PM

@KannappanSampath Kannappan: I'm afraid to say but you're wrong here.

It is seriously misleading to claim that $y^{i+j}$ is not an element of the group.

Kannappan Sampath

@tb All I am trying to say, $y^{i+j}$ does not make sense without reading the exponent modulo the order.

There is no distinct element called $y^{i+j}$ and is one of those previous guys you have already met.

t.b.

But it does make sense. You do have the relation $y^n = e$, so the exponent is automatically taken modulo the exponent.

Rajesh D

@Kanna : I suggest stop arguing here (it could only make worse)...sit somewhere and think coolly about the problem at hand you might have made some simple mistakes

t.b.

In other words if $k \equiv l \pmod n $ then $y^k = y^l$.

Kannappan Sampath

But, then, how do you know that $y^{i+j}=y^i y^j$ then?

This might not be true!

@tb Sorry the ping.

t.b.

2:31 PM

Huh? Of course this is true. Or you're using notation I don't understand.

Kannappan Sampath

Take the example from $\Bbb Z_6$ to $\Bbb Z_4$.

t.b.

That's what Jyrki is complaining about, as far as I can tell.

Kannappan Sampath

$x^2 \cdot x^3=x^5$

This gets mapped to $y^5=y$

I think I have a bad example here. Wait.

Ilya

t.b.

@KannappanSampath I see what you want to say: $x \mapsto y$ does not give a well-defined homomorphism from $\langle x \mid x^6 = e\rangle$ to $\langle y \mid y^4 = e\rangle$. because the image $y$ of $x$ doesn't satisfy the defining relation. But that's not what Jyrki is complaining about. He only speaks of the passage right after the colored box.

Rajesh D

2:35 PM

@Ilya : good one

Kannappan Sampath

Well, is the contention about well-defined element that is false, or the answer is wrong?

I thought Jykri complains my answer is faulty.

t.b.

The point of contention is the bullet point starting with "secondly" which is misleadingly written.

Kannappan Sampath

OK, I will edit that.

Matt N.

@tb Just so you know: I think I have a question (that is not too personal) but I'll ask you later or tomorrow, it's off topic at the moment. Let me know when you're ready.

Kannappan Sampath

I have realised I am at fault. And, it is genuine.

Matt N.

2:41 PM

@KannappanSampath So no need to delete your account! : )

You actually benefit from SE : )

Kannappan Sampath

:-)

t.b.

What Matt said...

@MattN I'll be back in a bit.

Johnny Lim

Hi

Rajesh D

Hi @Johnny

Johnny Lim

Nice to meet you @RajeshD

Kannappan Sampath

2:53 PM

@tb I have now edited how does that look?

Rajesh D

Iam eating dinner so won't be able to type for a while

Johnny Lim

@RajeshD Enjoy your meal :-)

t.b.

@KannappanSampath your penultimate paragraph. The In general ... still suffers from the same flaw, I'm afraid.

Kannappan Sampath

$(5+6) \bmod 3 \neq 5\bmod 3+ 6 \bmod 3$... No?

Rajesh D

@Kanna : take a break from this and njoy worry about the answer some other time.....no one is gonna get you for posting and keeping a faulty answer

Kannappan Sampath

3:01 PM

But, even I'd like to understand. So, I am not bothered about getting it now. I learn from criticism that is justified.

@tb ^ (The ping.)

Rajesh D

I gues you can learn on your own...that gives a nice feeling than knowing from someone on your faults

t.b.

@KannappanSampath (the thing is that if you take $i,j$ that is well-defined mod $m$ then $i+j$ is not well-defined mod $n$ -- sorry phone call again)

Rajesh D

woooo : my dinner is so quick

Kannappan Sampath

I am not sure I get it. Can we go over it again, please @tb?

t.b.

Sure, give me three minutes, I'm somewhat distracted right now.

Kannappan Sampath

3:04 PM

OK.

t.b.

But your equation says $2 \bmod 3 \neq 2 + 0 \bmod 3$... doesn't it?

Kannappan Sampath

There are particular instances when that is true. In general, it may not be true. Am I right here?

t.b.

@KannappanSampath No, the equality is always true. If you write $a \equiv b \pmod c$ you say $p(a) = p(b)$ in $\mathbb{Z}/c\mathbb{Z}$.

and $p: \mathbb{Z} \to \mathbb{Z} / c\mathbb{Z}$ is a homomorphism. The problem is that you seem to mix up cosets with the actual numbers.

Kannappan Sampath

I actually am! Why did I think of elements in a quotient group as elements of the group?

sigh I am crazy!

t.b.

Well, that I don't know :) Don't worry, this happens to all of us...

Matt N.

3:12 PM

@KannappanSampath Yes because you were thinking about deleting your account.

t.b.

...and what Matt said.

(seem to say that a lot, today)

Matt N.

: )

Kannappan Sampath

@RajeshD Yes, agreed! : ) (BTW, I had no second opinions to this statement.)

Matt N.

I declare the 16th of March to be my holiday.

t.b.

^ good idea...

What is this whole (removed) thing @Rajesh D has going over the last few hours?

Asaf Karagila

3:16 PM

My quickest badge yet, methinks. :-D

Matt N.

Peer pressure I suppose. He saw everyone else do it so... : )

Rajesh D

@tb

woooooo I am deleting it

t.b.

@AsafKaragila well, you headed out and I thought you missed the one question taylor made for you over the past week :)

Kannappan Sampath

What about $9 \bmod 11+3 \bmod 11=(9+3) \bmod 11$

Asaf Karagila

@tb I finished a pile and took a short break.

Kannappan Sampath

3:19 PM

Here the addition would be like $\bar 9 + \bar 3=\overline{9+3}=\bar 1 $ Right?

Asaf Karagila

Then I was sure we lost some exams, so I frantically called the other professor grading and then we found out that I just missed some lists. So it's all fine.

t.b.

@KannappanSampath right.

Kannappan Sampath

So, now I get all of this right!

Asaf Karagila

Ohhhh it's that guy which asked all those other set theory questions which I have answered! :-D

t.b.

@AsafKaragila It wasn't me :)

Asaf Karagila

3:20 PM

No, that guy.

Rajesh D

@MattN funny but true

t.b.

@AsafKaragila No, I'm going to ask one for you when your hair is already green tomorrow :-P

Asaf Karagila

Even when completely wasted I can still do set theory. The question is whether or not I can lift my arms to type something in.

t.b.

Well, the goal will be achieved no matter what the reason is, then...

Kannappan Sampath

That downvote is gone!

Jykri took it away! Yay!

t.b.

3:23 PM

@KannappanSampath I just saw...

Rajesh D

@Asaf : How come this guy profile is showing in the old format ?

Asaf Karagila

@RajeshD It's the questions tab.

t.b.

@KannappanSampath So, some people here are fair, after all

Asaf Karagila

Yes. I just passed someone...

Kannappan Sampath

@tb Very fair. :-)

Asaf Karagila

3:24 PM

They were to get like 53, but I felt bad and scratch out a few more points to a 56...

More of "unfailed" than "passed"...

Kannappan Sampath

Well, Asaf a clarification: Do you get to grade the entire answer script or only an answer?

Asaf Karagila

I grade one question, but this is the last question to be graded so I also sum the final score.

Rajesh D

@Asaf : this is internet. Why are you sharing secrets...they may someone who knows you watching this

for example : The Mossad !

Kannappan Sampath

Oh, I see. But you cannot add grade points on others' grading. So, you will have to add gradepoints in the answer you evaluate! : (

Asaf Karagila

Yeah.

t.b.

3:32 PM

apparently...

Kannappan Sampath

I think I got what he meant, sort of.

Asaf Karagila

I didn't see what was written there...

Matt N.

@KannappanSampath With his last sentence he said that you misspelled his name in the penultimate comment.

Kannappan Sampath

Hah! Yes. : (

t.b.

@David: you commented on an old version of the answer.

Kannappan Sampath

3:34 PM

@MattN Got that last part anyway. Felt like it and you confirmed!

Rajesh D

Its all happening....two sixes in a row...I hope India doesn't loose

Matt N.

@KannappanSampath Ok : )

Asaf Karagila

LOL!

Someone made a typo in the Hebrew word for "contradiction" and wrote "slap". :-D

Kannappan Sampath

That might have been intended to tell you that they had to prove this by slapping you, a new form of proof by intimidation. : )

Rajesh D

LOL

@Kanna : do not spoil the mood of Asaf : He might fail the guy

Asaf Karagila

3:38 PM

Actually he got 54... let's see where I can endow him with one more point.

t.b.

@KannappanSampath maybe you ping him with a quick apology for that and a thanks for removing the downvote?

@AsafKaragila give him an extra point for the slap?

Kannappan Sampath

@tb I am typing up one and it's taking a long time.

Asaf Karagila

Sure, why not.

t.b.

okay, gotta go.

Matt N.

See you later! (maybe)

Asaf Karagila

3:40 PM

Ciao.

Rajesh D

bye

David Wheeler

@tb i made two comments....one was directed at a previous comment

Rajesh D

Hi @David

David Wheeler

my second comment is more pertinent...when Kannapan starts with:...."in general..."

the point being, addition modulo m may not "match up" with addition modulo n, one of his variables should be different

Kannappan Sampath

I think I have learnt from that blooper!

Hi @TheChaz

David Wheeler

3:54 PM

a cycle of length m has to "fit inside" a cycle of length n for i+j (mod m) = i (mod n) + j (mod n) = i + j (mod n), another way of saying m has to divide n

The Chaz

howdy

Kannappan Sampath

The topology Room is up, did you see that? : )

The Chaz

No. I'm rather inactive on chat.

David Wheeler

most of the commenting on whether $y^n$ "exists" was rather pointless, in my opinion

Kannappan Sampath

May be you can take a brief look, although I personally would like if you participated. : )

David Wheeler

3:56 PM

all one has to do is define $y^n = y^{[n]}$

Kannappan Sampath

@DavidWheeler Yes, I missed out here.

David Wheeler

most people tend to omit the brackets when talking about equivalence classes mod n as being "understood"

The Chaz

@KannappanSampath Done :)

Rajesh D

Hi @David !

David Wheeler

@RajeshD hello

Kannappan Sampath

3:58 PM

From now, I won't make that mistake! Does this make you happy? :-)

David Wheeler

it gets a lot more interesting when one starts talking about extension fields (modulo classes of polynomials)

Kannappan Sampath

Am I OK?

David Wheeler

what does "ok" mean?

Kannappan Sampath

As in am I the same as I where or do I look different or what!!? These things make me wonder if people think I am arrogant.

Rajesh D

@David : are you a software engineer ?

David Wheeler

4:01 PM

@RajeshD no, not at all, why do you ask?

Rajesh D

I somhow remember clicking on your icon it showed primary account as stackoverflow...may be i am mistaken

David Wheeler

i don't think i've ever posted on stackoverflow...interesting...

Rajesh D

@David : In your page you say "leave a comment on my profile" What does that mean...how can one leave a comment there ?

David Wheeler

it's a joke

Rajesh D

ok

so what do you do @David ?

David Wheeler

4:07 PM

nothing at all :)

Rajesh D

I mean Occupation ?

@David ?

David Wheeler

none

Rajesh D

ok

sorry for asking a lame question

David Wheeler

don't be, i don't mind :)

Rajesh D

So what is your age ?

The Chaz

4:12 PM

But what if his answer had been "monitoring a nuclear reactor"? Then the question would have been... ??

Rajesh D

nice

ofcourse

now you can stop asking @The Chaz

The Chaz

(I don't understand the last sentence...^)

David Wheeler

@RajeshD i am half a century

Rajesh D

ok

@David @THE : even i am jobless and thats why i asked the question...Now if that comforts you @THE Chaz

The Chaz

You are replying to things that I haven't said, implied, or intended (to communicate). Sorry that we weren't able to speak more plainly.

Rajesh D

4:22 PM

@THE : Sorry about that

I was completely out of my mind : that happens when you are jobless

The Chaz

I understand! Well good day to you sir. I will keep the chat tab open, but won't be active much.

Rajesh D

ok

BTW its night over here

;)

Hi @Gigili

Hi.

4:25 PM

are you female ?

Gigili

I am.

Rajesh D

I am asking by the way your name is sounding

Gigili

I see.

Rajesh D

So wassup

You from ?

Gigili

Not much.

@RajeshD Huh?

Rajesh D

4:27 PM

I mean where are you from ?

If i may ask

Gigili

Um, from my room.

Rajesh D

I meant city/country But never mind

The Chaz

@everybody: A/S/L !!!

Kannappan Sampath

How I wished some one upvoted some answer of mine before I went to bed. But, never mind, what you wish never happens!

Rajesh D

@Kanna : Hmmm

Kannappan Sampath

4:30 PM

Huh?

Rajesh D

never mind

Kannappan Sampath

I am going to bed yeah. See you all tommorrow!

Rajesh D

GN

Matt N.

@KannappanSampath See you tomorrow!

Ilya

oh, too much of beers :( one of my colleagues has a Birthday

Kannappan Sampath

4:34 PM

@MattN Bye Matt. Take Care until then. :-) (I got a nice answer badge just a few minutes ago. Yay! A good reason to go to bed blisfully!) Thank You if that was anyone on this earth who upvoted an answer. He/She made my day and made me happy!

Matt N.

@KannappanSampath : ) You'll never know whether it was anyone on this earth : )

anon

Two questions. First, on this question, why are my \{ and \} not showing up (click "Edit"; they are there, despite the LaTeX code view from right-clicking) on the very last line of my answer? Second: how did the OP of that question know I turned 21 today (according to my profile anyway)?

Ilya

@KannappanSampath if you think your answer deserves upvotes - just tell me the link. If I agree I will upvote it - otherwise I rarely drop by your answer by an accident

anon

@Kanna: When people downvote your posts arbitrarily just imagine them in their underwear.

6

Matt N.

: D

Gigili

4:36 PM

@TheChaz :D

Ilya

@anon no... if it is a man - maybe

Kannappan Sampath

@MattN Hmm. I believe ET does not exist and hence I know for sure there exists an earthling who upvoted that. But, yeah, I am very happy! :-)

Matt N.

@KannappanSampath I'm glad : )

Ilya

drunk Dark Lords are so miserable

Rajesh D

So you guys are back !

Kannappan Sampath

4:39 PM

@Ilya Ilya, if you find an answer of mine of some utility to you, you may upvote. Some of the good ones have no vote, barring a few recent ones. (<-Hint!) And, I think I won't proclaim an answer good, unless it's too good.

Rajesh D

Suggest me some good music

Gigili

I thought you were already in bed.

Ilya

@RajeshD Mylene Farmer, Je Te rends ton amour

Kannappan Sampath

@anon I did not understand that. : (

Ilya

@Gigili you have dirty thoughts, don't you?

Matt N.

4:40 PM

@RajeshD Here.

anon

@anon: My questions or my joke?

Ilya

@KannappanSampath when someone downvotes you imagine them miserable, e.g. in underwear and socks

@Raj: here

Rajesh D

ok thanks @Ilya and @Matt

anon

For the joke: It's a play off of a common joke about public speaking - when you're presenting in front of a large number of people it can help to imagine them in their underwear so that you don't take them seriously and therefore some social anxiety is relieved. Here it means - how can you take a downvoter seriously if they're downvoting you in their Hello Kitty drawers?

Ilya

@MattN I should have asked you today about your musical preferences

Kannappan Sampath

4:43 PM

@anon I think I get what you mean. Secondly, I should tell you are awesome. I thought you were much older than I was. But, no, you actually are not. I am tempted to say, you're a good mathematician.

(And I believe that you are one.^)

anon

What the hell. Raj, did you seriously just ask Gigili for asl in a math chatroom?!?

Ilya

@anon asl?

The Chaz

^^

anon

@Kanna: Thanks very much. The feeling is mutual :)

The Chaz

Can't wait to hear of the first romance that was started in this chat room

Kannappan Sampath

4:44 PM

@anon No. He did not. He asked for the last two discretely though. s......l......

Rajesh D

I never used the words ASL...and seriously I do not see what it got with asking Gigili about Gender

@anon

Kannappan Sampath

Argh. I decided to sleep twenty minutes ago.

N3buchadnezzar

@KannappanSampath I challenge you to sleep!

anon

You don't have to use the word "X" to ask for X, or some significant subset of X. And indeed, it got you nada :)

Matt N.

@Ilya : ) You can still ask.

Rajesh D

4:47 PM

@anon : What is nada ?

Matt N.

"Nothing" in Spanish.

Ilya

@MattN let me feel better before

anon

Difficult to google.

Ilya

@RajeshD nada = you have to

in Russian

Kannappan Sampath

I challenge you to prove only from the axioms for a group that a group of order 35 has an element of order $7$ and another of order $5$. No, Cayley tables, don't re-invent Lagrange's Theorem @N3buchadnezzar

Ilya

4:49 PM

@KannappanSampath that's how the duel should look like here!

Matt N.

@Ilya -> "what ABC looks like"

Ilya

@MattN X looks like crossed legs. Why did you ask?

Rajesh D

@anon : I do not know what you mean by 'nada'.....but seriously..I am not able to appreciate your comments.......

Ilya

is it a psychological test?

@MattN yet again, like two crossed legs