TRPG General Chat

12:08 AM

1

Q: What are our requirements for tool recommendation questions and answers?

Tool recommendations are a fairly popular category of question (found in tool-recommendation, and a lot of them are simply tagged tools). Being recommendations, these questions and answers need to go a bit further than most questions to be of good quality for the site, and are more prone to run i...

Miniman

[Tears out a chunk of own hair] Why is it so blastedly important to people to not have their actual problem in their question?

3

Q: Does shillelagh require actual wooden weapons?

From the PHB Components: V, S, M (mistletoe, a shamrock leaf, and a club or quarterstaff) The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature’s power. For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee...

dnd-5e spells

Adeptus

@Miniman I know, right? I originally thought the question was, "do I need an actual weapon to cast this on?" and wrote a whole answer to that. Then he clarified, "Does it need to be wooden, or can it be glass?"

(to which the answer is "Yes". Heat Metal only works on metal, Shillelagh only works on wood)

Miniman

12:25 AM

@Adeptus Yeah, but even then, why can't he just put "I got the glass staff from the Starter Set. Can I use Shillelagh on it?"

I rewrote my draft answer about 4 times than just gave up on it as a waste of time.

Adeptus

BESW

@Adeptus [sigh] That's such a silly limitation. It only exists because the New Who writers couldn't think of a better way to limit the power they gave the thing.

The previous time the sonic screwdriver got too powerful, they just blew the thing up and didn't let the next two Doctors use it.

The Second Doctor's Sonic Screwdriver

►

Adeptus

@BESW I like the new Youtube thumbnail, with the title on it

BESW

@Adeptus So long as the title is useful.

(My old clip of the Fifth Doctor's screwdriver being destroyed has been taken down, unfortunately.)

Instead, have a picture of it burning:

RedRiderX

12:42 AM

@BESW they almost did that going from 10 to 11

They brought it back pretty fast though

BESW

I really can't see Moffat, with his "fairy tale wizard" vision of the Doctor, not letting the Doctor have a magic wand.

Miniman

@BESW No magic wand has ever been as intrinsically powerful as the New Who sonic screwdriver.

(They only do up to level 5 spells, after all.)

BESW

Level 3, in 3.5.

Miniman

Oops, my bad.

BESW

Wingardium plotiosa!

2

Miniman

12:46 AM

I let the Artificer in our group remember all the item rules.

BESW

Expellitension!

Avada suspensa!

Miniman

Your first was definitely the best.

BESW

doppelgreener

1:04 AM

@BESW where did this show up again? (and was it unsealed anyway?)

BESW

The deadlock seal was first mentioned in the Fourth Doctor serial The Invasion of Time, but I can't find any subsequent reference until New Who, when it arrived in the Ninth Doctor's series and has been used in just about every series since.

Shalvenay

heh

BESW

It's an advanced security technology, probably first developed by Time Lords.

Shalvenay

/me has a deadlock at work :P bloody Symantec probably tripped over the loader lock and can't get back up, taking out Firefox's main thread in the process

BESW

yeah, in real life "deadlock" is what happens when two processes are each waiting for the other to do something before they proceed to the next step, leading to neither doing anything.

doppelgreener

1:11 AM

it is also the door lock that is simply a bolt positioned above the knob

at least in lingo i'm used to

BESW

Deadbolts are sometimes called "dead locks," but almost always as two words.

doppelgreener

tomato/tomato dead lock / deadlock

BESW

[grin]

doppelgreener

[secretly pronounces both instances of 'tomato' exactly the same, but nobody reading it is any the wiser!]

BESW

[secretly pronounces 'tomato' as 'nightshade berry']

doppelgreener

1:19 AM

@BESW that's some very avant-garde pronunciation

BESW

There's glory for you.

doppelgreener

@BESW how do you pronounce that?

BESW

> '[...] There's glory for you!'
'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'
'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.
'When *I* use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'

Adeptus

This is a deadlock (different to a deadbolt)

doppelgreener

@BESW humpty dumpty did not have a very good english tutor.

@Adeptus oh, okay!

Adeptus

1:24 AM

there's also a deadlatch (which I also refer to as a deadlock...)

BESW

The essential element of a lock being "dead" seems to be a lack of spring holding the bolt in place.

(IE, you have to actually turn the lever to move the bolt, you can't just depress the spring.)

Adeptus

With the deadlatch, there's the usual springy latch, so the door can be shut if it's locked while open, but there's a second, smaller latch that gets depressed when the door is fully shut. This makes the main latch extend further and lock in place.

doppelgreener

1:41 AM

to me a deadlock is just a mechanism which is wholly responsible for locking the door securely with a bolt of some sort, and is not something you use to open and close the door (it won't have a knob on both sides).

BESW

2:16 AM

The Last Merwhale.

BESW

2:28 AM

Hmm. Character aspect: Vengeful killing sprees are good for the soul.

Invokable for violence, compellable for same and for past violence to catch up with the character.

doppelgreener

Invokable/compellable for offputting zen insights.

BESW

3:01 AM

@doppelgreener Indeed!

Inspiration is a character from Sanctuary who spent 100+ years possessed by a spirit of rage.

He didn't know he was possessed, though, so he'd done his best to come to terms with what he thought was his own true nature.

This leads to a very unsettling kind of person to talk to: someone who knows he's a monster, wishes he wasn't, but has given up hoping he can change and is just working on coping.

doppelgreener

oof. that sounds heavy.

BESW

Yeah, well. Immortal teleporting Jack the Ripper.

Powered by vampire blood and possessed by a rage elemental.

I love Sanctuary so much.

trogdor

7:05 AM

Sanctuary is one of those shows I didn't see too much of

it was one of the better ones in that category though

BESW

It's one of those gleefully self-indulgent shows that basically exists to do all the B-movie plots.

They filmed almost everything on greenscreen--in most shots, only the things the actors touch are real--which let them do a very wide range of shooting "locations" on a shoestring budget. It almost never looked real, but it was always good enough and honestly I thought it helped with the "embracing the B movie" thing they had going.

trogdor

7:21 AM

I didn't get too much of the entire plot, but I did generally know what was going on

BESW

Depending on the season, the plot may have been very different.

trogdor

yeah I know

the main plot I remember is the hollow earth thing, where supernatural entities were basically littering the streets

Althis

Hey, is there any way to filter the results in the main page to show only pages NOT containing certain tags? For example, it displays a lot of questions regarding Pathfinder, which I don't have much experience with nor interest. Is there a way to filter those out?

BESW

@Althis On your site profile page, click "preferences" and scroll down.

There's a place for you to list tags to ignore.

Althis

Thanks.

just to make sure, you actually ever play in these chatrooms here, do you?

BESW

7:37 AM

We do! but not really regularly.

Althis

Interesting.

You have my interest.

Congratulations.

BESW

For example, you'll find a lot of game sessions recorded here from when Fate Accelerated was in beta.

doppelgreener

We have dice, which helps.

Dice roller & formatting tests playgr…

The roller supports: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20. You can roll ...

Althis

Also, since you did play FAE, I had a question that I do not think is worth posting on the site.

Do you think playing FAE FEELS different from playing regular FATE?

doppelgreener

yes

BESW

7:40 AM

I call it "TV logic."

doppelgreener

fyi it's just Fate; they ditched the acronym ages ago and no longer write it in all caps.

except in the logo, which is confusing.

BESW

Approaches describe "how you do things," while skills describe "things you do."

Althis

I guess it was just because of the gorilla in the cover.

You can't have a gorilla in your cover and write your title in regular letters.

2

One must go all caps.

Like the gorilla itself is shouting the name of your book.

doppelgreener

Gorillas on covers do change things.

Althis

They should put more Gorillas on covers.

If I am not mistaken, GURPS player book also has one.

Hence why it is all caps as well.

BESW

7:48 AM

Whups, almost forgot to put the chocolate in my chili.

doppelgreener

GURPS books have an awful lot of things on the cover, but I am not sure this is connected to why it's written in caps ;P

@BESW goodness gracious, close one

BESW

(And no, that's not a euphemism.)

Althis

Its innuendo.

BESW

It's in the cooking pot now.

...the problem with cooking dinner during the Fast is that if you want dinner to be ready at sundown, you can't taste it while you're cooking.

[smells carrots]

doppelgreener

and if you begin cooking after sundown, you'll probably be eating stuff along the way before it's even cooked?

BESW

7:53 AM

And everyone else will be bellyaching.

Althis

Wait...

Fast?

Wat?

BESW

I'm a Bahá'í (that's my religion). Once a year we have a Nineteen-Day Fast, at about this time.

During those nineteen days, I don't eat or drink from sunrise to sunset.

Althis

That is a good example of a name that is easy to pronounce but really difficult to type.

doppelgreener

only because of our keyboards being a US layout!

somewhere in Europe they'd probably have a very easy time typing it.

BESW

Try mašriqu-l-'aḏkār.

Althis

7:56 AM

That looks like those words you see on dictionaries that tell you how to pronounce stuff, but you never really pay attention.

BESW

I once spent an evening being coached by a Persian woman until I could say it without her mother laughing at me.

Althis

Bahá'í is Indi?

You still fumbled it when it counted and she laughed anyway, didn't she?

BESW

Its mother languages are Persian and Arabic; it came out of what is now Iran, about 170 years ago.

@Althis By that time I think she was just laughing on principle.

Althis

It serves you well, though? Bahá'í?

BESW

It does.

Althis

7:59 AM

What are the precepts?

BESW

The Oneness of God and of religion, the inherent unity of humanity, the eternal ever-advancing spiritual nature of the individual and of civilisation, and the achievement of universal peace. This web page is a good portal for more details.

(Wikipedia is generally kept pretty accurate too, although there are some awkward bits like having a picture of the Founder of the Bahá'í Faith. General Google searches sometimes turn up Weird Things That Are Not Quite Right, though.)

Althis

Hm...

Interesting.

Very progressive.

So, what are you guys doing this time of the(Whatever it is where you live).

BESW

Guam. It's just past 6pm Wednesday. The sun sets in about 20 minutes, and I'm making vegan chili.

Althis

Wow, that is a tiny country!

BESW

Thinking about making some penne to go with it, since we're out of bread and the barley has weevils.

Althis

8:09 AM

Sorry, no offence intended, but wow.

doppelgreener

@Althis you should see what he has to go through to get people to ship stuff there sometimes.

sometimes that involves convincing them it actually exists.

BESW

Guam is the largest island in the Mariana island chain, and one of the larger, more developed islands in the region.

Althis

Honestly, I am looking at the map right now and I not entirely convinced.

541.3 km².

Wow.

BESW

Yeah, but you should see the funny looks the people from Kiribati got when they showed their passports at Tel Aviv.

(Doesn't help that it's pronounced more like "KIRRY-boss.")

Althis

Dude, it must be weird to be from such a place that people have to google search to make sure it actually exists.

Interesting.

The feed.

So that is how you respond so quickly when a question is posted.

Technology just removed a bit of magic from my life, right now.

BESW

8:13 AM

Chat feeds are controlled by room owners and mods here, and we've set up this meta post for suggestions on what should go in it.

Althis

I am reading about stuff. Like semi-imaginary countries and progressive religions(which, if you ask some would be a blasphemy), and trying to get the courage to convert part of the Sorcery system into Fate Core for the campaign tomorrow.

I am not sure I will be able to bother enough to do it, though.

BESW

I'm not familiar enough with Sorcery to help with that, but--I've found that the best Fate games are the ones which involve all the participants from the beginning, including hashing out how mechanics will model desired narrative elements.

Game prep is play.

Althis

Yeah, but that is mostly for story. Most players don't have in their heads to go deep into game design.

Specially the boring process of translating abilities from one system to the other.

doppelgreener

I am not sure that'd be strictly necessary?

Althis

I am not sure you've seen it, but I'm the guy that posted the question a couple of days ago about running a game with teams of ritualists/spirits working together to achieve different goals.

BESW

8:19 AM

Yeah, don't do that. [grin]

All you need are Sorcery's narrative elements.

doppelgreener

Here's how to make a fire-wielding sorcerer:

Aspect: Fearless master of the flame!

done, now they can use fire to do things as justified by their aspect.

BESW

Trying to do a transliteration of mechanics isn't gonna work. Get the things the mechanics do for the story which you like, and use Fate to tell stories about that. Fate needs story before it can do mechanics.

doppelgreener

oh, and they can pick up a stunt if they want to do anything rule-breaking, or be more effective in certain ways.

Althis

I can already tell this will be a lot more trouble than I anticipated at first.

BESW

Eventually, through play, you'll codify some "here's what we do mechanically for this kind of narrative event" traditions.

Althis

8:22 AM

Yeah, but I NEED mechanics in this case.

BESW

But the key is this: Fate's got a pretty small set of very adaptable mechanics.

Althis

That is why I was thinking of using it.

Since they are very adaptable, I could change the unusual Sorcery mechanics into something my playgroup already knows well.

BESW

When you run into a narrative thing that you want to have mechanics for, you sift through "Aspect, Invoke, Compel, Stunt, Attack, Overcome, Defend, Create Advantage" and pick what fits best for that particular moment.

Throwing a fireball (to continue Greener's example) might be creating an advantage like On fire or Charred supports, or it could be a straight-up attack, or an overcome action to blast through a door.

doppelgreener

and you'd do it by e.g. using the Clever approach, or the Shoot skill, or maybe Provoke if you're trying to frighten people rather than physically hurt them.

Althis

The problem I NEED mechanics for is because I have a player that can affect the world, and other that plays as the spirit that enables the supernatural stuff. But the supernatural stuff won't be going on all the time, which means I need to keep the spirits engaged through ways they can meddle with their vessel's daily lives.

BESW

8:24 AM

This may be useful:

21

A: Approaches for shooting?

Use the approach which makes sense for how you're shooting at the time. Approaches were a little difficult to wrap my head around at first. Unlike skills, they aren't about what I'm doing: they're about how I'm doing it. Any approach could be appropriate for shooting a gun, depending on the cont...

Althis

So it is not so much as mechanics for doing shooting and stuff.

BESW

@Althis Fate points and the Create Advantage action.

The spirit's player can spend Fate points for invokes and event compels even if the character isn't able to influence the scene.

Althis

I get your idea, but how would a spirit earn fate points?

When it's interaction with the world is limited?

The weird thing with the spirit player is that it isn't really an actor in the world as much as it meddles with the actor.

doppelgreener

to be fair, you probably would not model a spirit character so as to let them do very little.

BESW

afk dinner time.

ttfn

Althis

8:27 AM

He enables, denies or manipulates the character so that it can achieve it's own goals.

doppelgreener

BESW is going off to refuel his body and will be preoccupied for a while. ;P

Althis

That is VERY entertaining, just not in the most usual way for an RPG.

doppelgreener

So is the spirit player genuinely going to be a player? Does it have to be? Is it usually?

Althis

Be careful with that penne, dude! I am not sure that is 100% vegetal!

My idea came mainly because of how difficult it was to maintain groups with 8 players, and how much meddling some players did on other's turns.

doppelgreener

mainly what I'm trying to do is understand whether the spirit is usually a character and that's the default to implement, or whether you have a problem and have decided that someone playing the spirit is the solution.

In Fate, there's other tools, such as having aspects or stunts or extras representing the character having a meddling spirit companion, and the player just roleplays that out.

Althis

8:29 AM

I thought using this spirit mechanic would be a good way to keep them interesting since they would like the challenge and meddling with stuff, and reduce the number of actual characters to a more manageable level.

doppelgreener

If I understand rightly, you want people to meddle with each other to amusing or dramatic effect, to hinder or help each other?

Althis

Exactly.

user61230

@BESW I think we both just forgot.

doppelgreener

Ok. two options here:

(a) Some people are spirits that are just passively there. They use their actions - create advantage and overcome mostly - to interact with people, make things true, break through obstacles, and so on. They can use this to screw around to their hearts' content.

Althis

brb, keep talking, I am going to get a pizza out of the oven.

doppelgreener

8:32 AM

(b) Everyone should be compelling the heck out of each other: "Sorry, did you just say you were going to have a calm conversation with that shopkeep? I see you have an aspect showing you hate the Imperialists, and this guy has a portrait of the emperor on the wall. Maybe you'd like to start an argument with him instead?" [offers fate point]

(the other player may grin and accept, or they will have to pay a fate point to not do it.)

Of course, the players at the table - including the GM, in their role as first among equals - have veto power over compels. So if one guy is having to tear through all his fate points because three different people want to compel him to start an argument, anyone at the table can just say "No, this isn't cool, let's not compel this please." Including the compelled player himself, if he doesn't feel it's a valid compel.

Althis

b doesnt solve my problem with the number of players.

And A creates the problem of possibly not being engaging enough for the spirit player

which I am trying to deal with by increasing the complexity of the spellcasting by porting over some stuff from sorcerer, that should make being a spirit more difficult.

for instance, they might not have power to do something the mage wants or needs and need to look in the astral plane to find, summon and bind the required glyph.

This way they aren't simply limited ghosts and have to work hard to fulfill their own agenda.

But it's difficult because it need a lot of modding to work. And what I think will mostly likely happen is that people will just end up playing two different systems in the same game. The spirits will play a stripped down version of Sorcery while the mages play Fate.

So, no objections?

doppelgreener

8:57 AM

What you're basically asking for is for several players to participate less. Naturally that can make some of them less engaged, unless there's something to keep them regularly engaged: maybe each pair can work together or something?

Althis

Each pair does work together.

doppelgreener

How much Fate have you played?

Althis

I think 2 campaigns.

And one heavily modded, I don't think it counts.

doppelgreener

How many sessions?

Althis

6 on the first. 4 on the second.

I think.