« first day (2304 days earlier)   

12:00 AM
I personally don't like grim bleak stories too much
at the very least it has to have hope injected into it
 
To much sex, violence and corporate greed.
 
same, those things are a turn off for me
we have enough of that in real life, and other media to boot
 
Aye!
 
I can get it if it's meant as a critique of society, though even in that case too much of it is still,... too much
but the way I see it, it usually isn't actually literally meant in that way, it's meant as entertainment
with possible pretensions towards a critique thrown in :/
(as an afterthought, rather than the first, and main, idea of the work in question)
 
12:25 AM
@BESW Sounds about right. My daughter likes all three - Lumberjanes, Steven Universe, and Adventure Time.
 
Steven Universe is awesome
Adventure Time didn't grab me when I tried to watch it, and I have not tried Lumberjanes
 
@BESW I had a flick through Rat Queens. Looks like it could be good.
 
@SevenSidedDie how's the experiment in organized large-scale schooling going?
 
@nitsua60 Mixed results but mostly on the positive side! A long weekend may help, and further experiments next week should give a larger effect size from which to draw conclusions.
 
Glad to hear it. Good luck!
 
12:37 AM
@nitsua60 Thanks. :)
 
Hmm. The Sage Advice in the first half of this podcast might clear up a bunch of 5e questions relating to targeting. dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/…
Lots of commentary on twinned spell, what's considered a target, etc.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:02 AM
@MikeQ There's nothing as formal as that. However, if I were interested in running a game and having some stackizens play I'd probably drop a line here and ask BESW (room owner) to "pin" it. (The top three (currently) messages on the star-board are pinned and won't move from those locations until BESW un-pins them.)
 
@nitsua60 speaking of which, do you want me to un-pin the 5e thing?
 
Another route would be to post an "ad" in meta, though I'm not sure the reception that would get. (I mean, you'd probably get players, but you'd probably also get yelled at for using meta incorrectly. And maybe it'd get closed/deleted before you got players.)
 
(also, to nit-pick, pins drop automagically after two weeks.)
 
what is the reason for that?
 
@BESW Maybe--I got some interesting things that first day or two, but nothing really after that. OTOH, I'm still just in brainstorming mode; any more thoughts/suggestions that came my way could be useful. Maybe next week?
@BESW Iiiiiiinteresting...
 
2:06 AM
@trogdor Because most room owners aren't nearly so active as I am, and the primary purpose of the star bar is to show folks what's happened recently in chat.
 
ahhh ok
that actually makes perfect sense
 
2:23 AM
@SevenSidedDie Dammit, I did not read Vattu, instead I went past the first few pages of Saga and found it readable and now it's half three in the morning and I planned to work tomorrow.
@trogdor Partly because that thing, in all the fight and war and stuff, seems to be about hope.
 
2:34 AM
@Anaphory which thing?
 
2:48 AM
hey there @MikeQ
also hey there @RollingFeles
 
@Shalvenay morning!
how is it going?
 
That reminds me, what time zones are people located in?
 
that varies a lot; we've got some (semi-)regulars in the UK, US East, US West, Guam, Australia, Russia, and a few other parts of Europe
 
Hi there @JoelHarmon and @MikeQ!
 
hey, how are things?
 
2:58 AM
@JoelHarmon I will have my second first session today =)
With another group.
 
@RollingFeles the DW game, right?
 
Yep!
 
I hope you play and find out some really cool stuff
 
Thanks! :)
I think aloe-goodbye will be left to another time, because I really like "You're looking through a keyhole and see the man you came to kill on the other side. Who is he and why have you come to kill him?" as first question to my players.
But this one is great too.
I have a thief, who (unexpectedly) wants to steal things. So, I'm inclined to give them start in some settlement.
 
I started a game with "You're in a carriage chase, barreling down the road. Are you chasing or being chased?"
 
3:08 AM
This one is nice too!
 
@RollingFeles alright.
 
turns out that, since they were an evil party, they were doing the chasing.
hey @Shalvenay
 
@JoelHarmon If the players chose otherwise, (how) would that affect the direction of the campaign?
 
@MikeQ Are you familiar with Dungeon World?
The base philosophy is "play to find out"
I had a few people/groups likely to come up; a few of them did, and I improvised some others on the fly
 
"draw maps, leave blanks" =)
 
3:17 AM
I had zero pre-planned interactions
 
"fill their lives with excitement"
 
"Ask questions, use the answers"
"Read the rules yourself before Joel and nitsua recite them all in chat"
3
(they're available online for free)
 
@JoelHarmon this ^^ has infected my D&D GMing. (in a good way)
 
I remember that happening; now I use it as a general reference for DMing
 
"fill chatizens' screens with widely-available references"
 
3:20 AM
What are these quotes from, are they just common sayings or are they something specific?
 
aside from the last two, they are the "GM principles" from Dungeon World.
[rummages]
 
@MikeQ Dungeon World has a set of imperatives for Game Masters, like "fill [the PCs'] lives with excitement."
These guys are re-appropriating them for jokes about the Stack and the chat.
 
@BESW most were legitimate
In particular, the GM has some Principles and an Agenda. They are rules, not guidelines.
 
new baby's agenda: "fill Joel's life with excitement"
(no sleep, just excitement)
 
3:29 AM
yeah, I'm feeding her and typing one-handed right now.
 
@JoelHarmon those one-handed skills get pretty impressive with enough practice
 
agreed
 
[rummages through memories]
cooking entire meals...
 
hey there @Reibello
 
folding laundry...
 
3:31 AM
my pinnacle so far: she is comforted by holding things, so she holds my thumb in one hand, my pinky in the other, and I use the other three fingers to keep the bottle stabilized. My other arm is holding her up, as I walk around talking to my wife.
 
I was thinking about parent-dexterity last night: I was lying with my daughter, who's currently croupy, and folded a blanket with my feet to pass up to my hands and prop up her head/chest a bit more.
 
@nitsua60 Did you have a question you wanted to ask me this weekend?
 
@JoelHarmon mad skillz! :)
Ah, listening to parents story I realize that I really want kids.
 
@JoelHarmon oh, it wasn't so much a question as a weird, almost stalker-level bit of parent-sharing. (I'd not slept much the night before--with same croupy daughter--and awoke with the urgent thought "I wonder if Joel's had to deal with croup yet?!")
 
hello @Shalvenay !
 
3:33 AM
and during all this, I'm sitting here wondering just what broke the anemometer at the local AFB because it clearly wasn't the wind's fault :P
 
@RollingFeles Kids are like dishwashers or cars: once you've got one you'll never go back to not having one.
 
@Reibello how're things going?
 
Strike that. That is the most-useless thing I've ever said.
 
@nitsua60 Fortunately, her health has overall been good
 
@nitsua60 As someone who used to have a car and got rid of it because driving terrified me, I worry what that implies for kids. :-P
 
3:35 AM
@CTWind ...adoption?
 
(Again, I'll blame it on many nights of nursing sick kids. One's got a stomach thing right now.)
 
@Shalvenay It goes. Have free time again, so I'm back on the stack. Also hopefully GMing stuff on a maybe semi regular basis, which is cool
you?
 
@BESW Yeah, I think that's the parallel.
 
@nitsua60 how many kids do you have? (speaking of stalker questions :P)
 
3.
That I know of.
 
3:36 AM
:)
Nice!
 
[/rimshot]
 
@Reibello alright here. managed to swing a seat at a 1e table at the local FLGS, which is nice.
 
Cool
 
@Reibello what are you GMing if I may ask?
 
@nitsua60 yeah I don't know what the hell that was supposed to mean XD
 
3:36 AM
(I also am trying to keep an intermittent 5e game together online, but scheduling is proving tricky)
 
Phoenix: Dawn Command for now.
 
@Reibello ah. ships in space or?
 
online games are hard
 
@Reibello they are
 
no - fantasy apocalypse
 
3:37 AM
@Reibello ah, interesting.
 
here
 
kinda reminds me of Dark Sun?
 
ah you found it
yeah a little
 
@trogdor Just that I, like I assume most parents do, sometimes wonder "what would life be like without them?" But I'll never not have them. Which made me think of how long I put off ever buying a car, and how I'll probably never go back to not having one.
 
less blasted and more oh god it's about to be
but yes
 
3:39 AM
@nitsua60 but dishwashers on cars? I don't think I want one of those, and that isn't me saying I don't want kids, it's me saying I don't want a dishwasher on a car,......
 
what do you have against multitasking?
 
I mean, to be fair I certainly don't want any kids right now, but I reserve the right to change my mind later in life XD
 
@Reibello "it's a blast, but it's not fun!"
 
@nitsua60 My colleague has 3 too. And after his stories I think that it will be perfect number for me. Sometime in future. But for now I'm working on stable basis for family.
 
@Shalvenay Is that the tagline for magic missile?
 
3:41 AM
@BESW no, it's actually the title of a NASA ASRS Callback report on the topic of jet blast encounters
 
@RollingFeles 3 seems like a good number, I am biased in that I have exactly two siblings XD
 
So I'll share anyway: my older daughter had croup last weekend and got really worked up around 2am on Saturday night. So I bundled her up and took her out on the back porch, as one does.
And I was sitting there in 15-deg. air, looking up at the stars, with a 40-lb sack of "I love you" and "I'm so miserable" on my lap, thinking back to eight years ago (probably to the month) doing the same thing for the first time with my oldest.
Back then we lived in a 3rd-floor walk-up, so my wife and I were trudging up and down the stairs with a wheezing baby, delirious for lack of sleep.
 
@nitsua60 There has been many a costume change
and also many a late night
 
@RollingFeles Number is weird, in my experience. Before my first was born, I was convinced four was the number for us. After my second was born, I was convinced one was our number. Then, after all the trouble it was getting to three, I'm just happy they're all healthy and (usually) happy.
 
@nitsua60 my parents were only trying for one more kid after me, as they say it, and they joke about how I tricked them into thinking it was easy, plus they had twins instead of the one kid they expected XD
 
3:49 AM
@nitsua60 There's a Monty Python for that.
 
@trogdor There's a great bit Louis CK does about twins. Basically, that the word is a sham and that we should replace it with "two f----ing babies." As in, don't say "awww, how adorable, you've got twins," or "oh, it must be tough having twins." Say it right.
I mean, Joel's only got two arms. How do you expect him to type with twins [redacted]?
 
lol
 
@nitsua60 I'm glad to hear, that you and your family are happy :) I really like stories like this. But I'm not yet ready for this myself.
 
@nitsua60 "It must be tough having two flailing babies." Yeah, that sounds more accurate.
 
having twins for siblings was certainly an experience, (as was having twins for kids as my parents have described it)
 
3:53 AM
@RollingFeles You're never ready. That part doesn't matter.
 
@nitsua60 no but like, double not ready
 
(I'm not trying to push you or anything--it's just my knee-jerk response to "I'm not ready..." statements.)
 
@nitsua60 Grandparents.
 
@nitsua60 like, when I feel ready I won't be ready, but I don't even feel ready now, so I am double not ready
 
I'm pretty sure that feeling ready is when you're actually double unready.
 
3:54 AM
plus it isn't like there is currently another person to have them with XD :P
@BESW maybe, but then that means when you don't feel ready "yet" you are triple not ready
 
@nitsua60 readiness here is more about foundation for a life without general problems and thoughts like: "damn, where we have to live" or "damn, I wish we had a car", or "damn, I don't have money for anything". I'm sure there will be hardships and challenges for me. I just don't want my children to remember their childhood as "our family struggled through hardships".
 
this rabbit hole goes down further than anyone is willing to go
 
@SevenSidedDie hi!
 
@RollingFeles Yeah, I certainly know what you mean. I'm just remembering all the times in month 8 people asked me if we were ready. "pshhh-no! But it doesn't matter!" was generally my answer. We were prepared, we were capable, but we were not ready.
We had no idea what was coming down the pike, nor how we would handle it.
Just that we would. Together.
@trogdor s/willing/ready =D
 
@nitsua60 in a matter of choosing terms, yeah, prepared and capable - that's not about me :P
 
3:58 AM
it's definitely to the point that not being in a place in your life where it would be in any way responsible/possible to have kids, and relating that to not being ready, is a step of a differnce to "not being ready/prepared for it"
@nitsua60 the rabbit hole is not having kids, the rabbit hole is a bottomless pit
I would rather a teacher and father of three not fling himself into a bottomless pit, please
 
That's the kindest thing someone's said to me in a good twelve hours =)
 
especially if he is going to leave a note to his family saying "Trogdor made me do it"
:P
 
(You're victim to the fact that a student from six years ago wrote me out of the blue this morning.)
 
hence it only being twelve hours, got it XD
 
Alright, I'm going to call it a night, all. Be well!
 
4:03 AM
good night
 
@nitsua60 My general feeling was "about 100 billion people before me seem to have figured this out. We're pretty smart; we'll manage."
 
@nitsua60 good night! Have a good sleep :) You deserve it!
 
 
5 hours later…
9:31 AM
1
Q: Links to RealmHelps.net

JackyzOn the same vein of the question about dndtools. Realmhelps.net too have complete description of non-OGL item. This time the scope of use is way smaller, we have only 39 istances where the site is used, in both questions(15) and answers(24).

 
10:13 AM
@RollingFeles Do we have a list of them somewhere?
@trogdor Saga
 
@Anaphory there are several thread at r/DungeonWorld and I saw some sites with Dungeon Starters(PDF with a bunch of start questions, custom moves, location moves, monster/npc descriptions for masters to start right away with some interesting premise).
But I haven't seen one whole list yet.
 
On a related to this chat note and since I'm trying to familiarise myself with combat encounters that aren't just life-or-death, have you guys played Descent 2e or Imperial Assault? They excel at that kind of thing.
 
@Anaphory ah, so did you like that aspect of it or?
 
10:30 AM
@trogdor The whole thing starts with a childbirth, drawn in quite some detail, a firefight, and some war fugitives. The war and the fugitives remain, but it's about how this child of two enemy ex-combattants-gone-somewhat-pacifist grows up.
 
ah
 
And how its very existence poses a threat to the two societies that are very much formed by the war, through the positive message it brings.
There's still a lot of gore and pain and dying, so it won't grow to be my favourite, but getting past the first few pages and getting used to it made it readable.
 
ah
yeah, I prefer most stories to keep the gore, pain, and dying to the absolute most dramatic moments
rather than being littered with it
 
11:05 AM
Saga is too much “War is BAD!” for that. I mean, there are streaks without it. The stuff during space flight is just marvellous. But even there, Hazel's baby sitter is a constant visual reminder of the war going on outside.
 
mm
it does sound like a really bleak setting though
 
Yep.
 
Yeah, thinking about it most of the Image Comics I've read are not made of glitter and hugs.
Boom! Studios does better with that, from what little I've read of theirs.
 
I don't need it to be glitter and hugs,... I just prefer it not to be total hell
 
Saga's a bit more... R-rated Firefly.
 
11:12 AM
I sorta prefer stories set in worlds/universes where I would actually like it if I visited them
even if not for too long XD
it isn't so much the concept that I would be in danger, in the hypothetical scenario for me, upon visiting a story place, I would be safe, but watching a ton of people die every once in a while would certainly be a downer in the extreme
 
 
2 hours later…
12:52 PM
@nitsua60 So far we've avoided croup, but there has been plenty of times where she refused to sleep. So I have spend many hours with a baby/toddler on me slowly drifting off into the sandy realms of sleep
 
1:03 PM
Hmm. I'm worried about how much hints and handholding I should do for players completely new to RPGs and I don't know if it's a good question for SE - might be too broad or subjective.
By handholding I mean explicitly suggesting what actions they may take to overcome a challenge, for example.
 
Yeah, that's gonna need a lot of 'reading the room.'
My advice is, tell them exactly what you just said: that you're not sure how much you should be suggesting actions for them. And then ask them to help you make an environment where they're comfortable asking for help.
When in doubt, recruit the players to help.
 
Thanks. Have you had experiences with such scenarios?
 
Yes.
You're all in this together, the GM doesn't have to be the Magical All-Knowing and Errorless Arbiter of Fun.
My groups got happier and I got less stressed when I finally figured out how to invite them up on the stage with me to help facilitate together.
 
Heh, I've read plenty of stuff that suggests as much. It's difficult to get into the right mindset, however, especially considering the start of the game is still a bit away. I just want to prepare everything now to have the opportunity to revise later.
 
[rummages for link]
Here we go, this isn't exactly your situation but the experience may be useful to read about:
35
A: How do I convince my group to try a new system without always having to DM it first?

BESWI've had similar challenges, both with getting group buy-in to try new systems and with getting people to feel comfortable GMing anything at all. My solution was a long-game process of changing the "landscape" of how people at the table viewed their role in the game. I didn't set out to delibera...

 
1:10 PM
Thanks, will take a look.
(it's also difficult because in our country's the RPG scene is only now coming to the realisation that this is how things should be done; I'm in a very old-fashioned game right now, too, so it influences me)
 
Yeah, I've been there.
I was a pretty dictatorial GM at first, in large part because I started GMing specifically so that I'd be able to leverage that in-game role into out-of-game social influence to control the environment.
Reversing that to instead invite other people into the sphere of influence took a long time.
 
Interesting. I've started GMing because RPGs seemed cool and nobody at school even heard of them.
Later turned out my dad played a bit of AD&D back in the day so that was cool to hear.
 
I mean, there were definitely other factors. I was declaiming a monologue from Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead to some friends when one of them decided I'd make a great GM. I was given the books and about a month to prep over break while he gathered a group for me.
Then I embraced it in part because it gave me tools to create a social space apart from my friends' friends who could only socialise in ways I wasn't comfortable being around.
Being the GM meant that even if we were at someone else's house I could enforce a set of expected behaviours.
I still do that, creating safe, calm environments for my friends to socialise, but I've learned to do it without conflating it with the role of GM.
 
That's good. Not in an ideal world where everyone always understands each other's desires and all that, but in this one :)
 
Speaking of which, I should get some sleep. Tomorrow's game night.
ttfn
 
1:21 PM
Nighto.
 
yeah, just about to nod off myself
it got late fast today somehow XD
 
2:07 PM
@Magician Binge-reading your blog a bit, stumbled upon a link to something called Horizon which I'm interested in, but the link's broken now. Do you know where I can find it? The main site is just one post.
 
Can you remind me where I link to it?
 
Here for example.
I can probably derive it from the implementation (reverse-engineering, ho!), but might miss some things.
 
Ah. I don't know if it's still around in any way. From what I recall, it was a similar idea to the one I'm describing there, if a bit less playful.
 
Alright. Thanks.
 
Basically, GM declared that when the counter reached a certain number, something bad would happen. The vampire lord would wake up, cultists would finish the ritual, whatever. And incremented the counter whenever PCs would rest, or when other conditions would be met.
 
2:11 PM
(I love the square-to-hex idea, by the way; and big props for the blog in general)
 
mornin
 
@UristMcDorf Glad you're finding it useful!
 
That reminds me of how Descent 2e does solo/co-op scenarios, where the Overlord is replaced with a semi-AI engine.
 
@Magician oooh, I like that
 
@DForck42 Follow the link in the message above for my own spin, then :). Can't take credit for the original idea.
 
2:16 PM
Any blog that discusses game design (both the mechanical perspective and the social/whatever to call it one) is useful to me, what with me being an aspiring game designer. This one's one of the better ones though.
 
@Magician that sounds really fun
 
It was!
 
On a side note, the small chat version of your avatar looks like the Paradox logo to me.
 
...I can see that
 
2:37 PM
Oh, and @Magician in regards to the consequences of combat and all that - have you seen/played Descent 2e or Imperial Assault? They're boardgame basically built around the principle - you have a big campaign, each combat is a tactical challenge for both the Overlord and the heroes, and winning/losing a combat means some changes to future combats, but never actual death except for the final scenario (obviously).
 
hey folks
 
@LegendaryDude mornin
 
I have played Imperial Assault, it's awesome
 
Outcomes include getting artifacts, new allies/lieutenats, straight more gold/xp to spend on powers, stuff like that.
Evenin'
 
I own it and the Hoth expansion
The campaign is great
 
2:38 PM
Regardless of who won though each side gets the basic reward - some xp and credits/influence (depending on the side)
 
Rather, campaign "mode" is great
Sorry, jumping right into the conversation here.
 
That's fine
I've played IA myself (also called Descent 2.5)
Though the heroes keep stomping my forces :(
 
Ha! I have the same problem
I've yet to win a scenario :(
 
They're too good at their tactics, the bastards
Reminds me of the time I played a treasure hunter in Descent 2e, though on the other side of the barricades, obviously.
 
I came close once but we missed a rule and didn't realize there was a turn limit or something like that, so I got right outside the door to the security codes or whatever (this was a mission where the heroes were defending) and the mission ended
I would have played it more aggressively
And won
But because of whatever the restriction was and our misunderstanding of it I missed my chance
 
2:43 PM
It was a perfect fit for my style. I was always a greedy bastard before, but in this case? The class gave me benefits for being greedy! Now I could steal all the loot and leave my friends to die without feeling bad about it :)
Aww
I hope you win soon.
 
It's tough
It suffers from the death spiral problem
 
It certainly is.
 
If you lose you don't get the rewards
And the winners do
So they get stronger and you don't
Making it harder to win the next mission
 
Yeah. And in-game, you go second so even as you spawn in a wave of reinforcements (which you have to save up for) you might find them DoA
 
2:45 PM
oh my, taking a look at IA on amazon, and it looks pretty bad ass
 
@DForck42 It's so much fun
 
It's incredible despite some of the aforementioned issues
Funnily enough, I've read some articles that claim that the game is stacked in the Overlord's favour.
And none claiming otherwise.
 
@UristMcDorf Really?
That's surprising
 
Yup.
Well, by some I mean two, I think.
So not a big sample.
 
I mean, from a certain perspective it is, only because the Overlord/Empire gets all the mission details
And the Rebels only get what the Empire tells them
 
2:48 PM
I haven't tried either.
 
So the Overlord knows what his options are and can react according to how the mission is going
While the Rebels just have a single objective at any given time
@DForck42 If you do pick it up I highly recommend buying the box organizer from the Broken Token
 
I think that's a bad approach to outright balancing though.
 
There are so many tokens and figures and cards and pieces and the box comes with no built-in organization
 
Because it means the game is one-use. Which is fine for some (Legacy games, anyone?), but not for this.
 
@UristMcDorf It's only kind-of one use
@UristMcDorf Okay, so once you learn the first mission, you know the first mission
But the rest of the missions are at least semi-random
And the expansions greatly increase the variability
Plus a lot of the variability comes in using different heroes and different Empire classes (and the expansions add to those, too)
 
2:51 PM
Fair enough, but still shouldn't be a balancing mechanic imo. I liked Descent's approach better, it didn't take that into consideration.
Everyone knew everything except for the Overlord's "take that" cards
Which are much more limited in IA
You could completely screw up a player's turn in Descent
 
But, the Rebel heroes have way more abilities than any Overlord unit or class card in IA
And the Hoth expansion heroes are even better
 
Yep.
 
One of them has, essentially, Cleave a la D&D 3.5
 
It's a bit unfun for the Empire that way. But I've managed.
 
And an extra weapon card
 
2:54 PM
So far anyway.
 
We haven't finished a campaign yet
It's our go-to when we can't get the D&D group together or someone drops last minute
But that hasn't happened recently, plus we have been trying to beat Fury of Dracula
Which is another asymmetrical competitive/co-op board game that I highly recommend if you like that kind of thing
 
I played Fury of Dracula once. Was pretty tense.
Which edition?
 
Cool.
 
Without a doubt Dracula has the upper hand in that game
 
2:58 PM
Indeed.
 
If you want to talk about balance in a competitive co-op game, do not use FoD as your example
 
@LegendaryDude lol, ok
 
At least until you have a solid strategy and a good understanding of the rules
But that takes a few playthroughs
Out of the box the hunters have pretty much no chance of winning except by sheer luck
 
I'm not using FoD as an example :)
Well
We almost won
And everyone was a first-time player
So I dunno. Sheer luck is possible.
 
I know, just making a point to say that, since we're on the topic of asymmetric board games and balance therein, that FoD is not exemplary :)
"Almost" won
Isn't it really more of a binary state?
 
3:01 PM
@LegendaryDude participation trophies?
 
@DForck42 "Congratulations, Dracula's influence has spread across all of Europe! Here, have a cookie."
 
@LegendaryDude lol
 
It is a binary state, yes, but at least on first glance I'm more likely to think a game is balanced if I had a fighting chance until the end than if it was decided mid-game.
It could be a freak occurence, sure. But it's not like I have a larger sample to analyse.
 
@UristMcDorf That's fair, and you make a good point. The last time I played as Dracula, they had me cornered in Italy and it came down to only a few health left before the end of week 3.
I think the best part of that game is playing as Dracula and listening to the hunters try to figure out what cities you've been to and what direction you're traveling in.
 
3:17 PM
INdeed.
 
3:31 PM
@Ahriman I don't envy any tiny human the job of learning to calmly surrender to what must seem like a tiny death every night.
 
@nitsua60 lol
 
@DForck42 hiya =)
 
@nitsua60 morning, how goes it?
 
@DForck42 Sick kid, up half the night, trying to remind myself through headache how precious those times are. (It's funny what's on an eight year-old's mind at 2am.)
@DForck42 You?
 
@nitsua60 yeah, sounds like fun. the fiancé and I are scheming having kids at some point
@nitsua60 good, tired, didn't sleep great. need more coffee
 
3:44 PM
Scheming, huh.
 
@UristMcDorf yup
 
My fiancee and I do as well, though she wants to have kids later and I want them earlier. At least we settled on an amount and names (if all goes according to plan, anyway).
 
however, we dont' really want to have kids in the city (town, really) that we currently live in. we're talking about moving to st. Louis soonish
 
Bluh. A bit of a bad topic for me because she really wants to leave Russia and I really don't. And we definitely won't have kids before we settle on a place and country.
 
@UristMcDorf I remember scheming... =)
 
3:50 PM
@UristMcDorf ahh
 
My wife and I are scheming. Roughly September of next year is what we've planned out. :D
 
@nitsua60 yeah, we're thinking 2, but what happens happens
 
(Married for 8 months next Sunday)
 
@LegendaryDude nice, our wedding is planned for november
 
@nitsua60 So funny how that changes. I enjoy the learned ability of being able to fall asleep literally anywhere and at any time.
 
3:52 PM
@LegendaryDude I learned that in the army.
But it was mostly my own fault.
 
Those "tiny deaths" are almost always a wonderful respite.
 
Being the, for a lack of better word, secretary of one of the officers I had access to a PC and smuggled in some vidya. Then I'd stay up till like four hours before I had to wake up.
That's considering that I require more sleep than the average person to function normally.
At least 8 hours, preferrably 10-12.
 
There was some research done that supposedly found a genetic mutation that allows people to have a shorter sleep cycle, with those people found to only need 6 hours of sleep to function normally
I am fairly certain I fall into that group
Because whether I get 6, 8 or 10 hours of sleep I feel generally the same level of awareness throughout the day
 
There're a lot of people like that. It can also be a result of a behaviour change from what I understand - you can condition yourself to be fine with just 6h of sleep.
 
That is to say, on a normal day I get 6 hours of sleep and I don't feel any less awake than on a day where I sleep in
 
3:57 PM
Modern lifestyle having a lot of influence on that.
Well, LD, it might be the other way around and you've just forgotten what it feels like to be fully awake, and the extra hours of sleep not helping to alleviate the long-term problem :D
(sorry, I couldn't resist)
 
That is a possibility
There is the concept of sleep debt
Which is what you get when you habitually don't get enough sleep
I don't know how scientific that is, though
 
probably not very
 
Who knows.
 
Yeah, sleep is a very misunderstood phenomenon.
 
I've noticed that undersleeping for a while makes me perform worse in the following days too, but maybe that's just placebo or stuff like that.
I'll go check google scholar
 
4:02 PM
"There is debate among researchers as to whether the concept of sleep debt describes a measurable phenomenon. The September 2004 issue of the journal Sleep contains dueling editorials from two leading sleep researchers, David F. Dinges and Jim Horne.
A 1997 experiment conducted by psychiatrists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine suggested that cumulative nocturnal sleep debt affects daytime sleepiness, particularly on the first, second, sixth, and seventh days of sleep restriction."
 
...it would help if I actually knew how many citations should a good article have
 

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