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12:01 AM
I had a tough time with this answer. Didn't want to reproduce the rules, but all that leaves it with is "ask your GM." Wouldn't mind another set of eyes. (It just feels like a cold-shoulder to a very new querent.)
 
@nitsua60 I mean, "ask your GM" is basically all the rules say anyway, so...
 
@nitsua60 I think that answer is about as helpful as it's possible to be, considering the subject of the question.
 
Cool--thanks. (Both of you.)
 
hey there @Karelzarath
 
@Shalvenay Aloha. How goes?
 
12:05 AM
@nitsua60 I mean, it's not like you said "D&D hates item crafting and the rules for it are stupid".
 
alright here, as for you?
 
Hmmmm....maybe I should downvote you for not saying that.
 
@Shalvenay Pondering the age-old GM question: Do I add class levels or HD to this monster to get its power level where I want?
 
@Miniman =)
 
@Miniman -1: this answer is too helpful
2
 
12:07 AM
@Karelzarath terrain =)
 
@Karelzarath Legs.
 
@nitsua60 I'm building the (semi-cheaty) BBEG for my next campaign, so that will definitely be a part of it, but the base creature is about 11 CR too low to work.
 
@Karelzarath Cool, add 11 legs and you should be good.
 
you need to increase the creature CR by 11 or so?
 
@Miniman Fascinating suggestion, but sadly not thematically appropriate.
 
12:09 AM
5E Simple Crafting: With a maul or warpick, remove a piece of your own flesh equaling 1d4+1 times the weight of the desired magic item, starting at the foot.
Which is why we need half-ogre as a playable race.
 
Hey, @Miniman, good point on meta about not knowing if a question is on topic until we see the answer. Got a sec to chat about it?
 
@A_S00 Sure!
 
Cool
Would you feel that was less of a problem if there were an expectation that story-identification questions included something like "assertion of notability"
Like, "There's this story I've seen referenced on RPG boards about X, what is it" would be more likely to be on topic
but "there's this TV show that starts with kids playing an RPG and fighting a demon with a funny name, what is it" wouldn't?
 
@ShadowKras Essentially, yes. She's the lovechild of the Queen of Succubi and the herald of the goddess of battle. NG half-celestial succubus, CR 18-ish with an emphasis toward martial prowess. Outsider HD can model that pretty well, but she doesn't get, for example, a fighter's prowess with arms and armor.
 
@A_S00 Well, yeah, but at that point the querent knows what they're looking for and should just Google it.
 
12:13 AM
@Karelzarath what system?
 
"I saw some people talking about Old Man Henderson, what is that?" isn't really a useful question.
 
@ShadowKras Pathfinder
 
hey there @ShadowKras
 
That's easy then. Have you heard about the Advanced Bestiary?
There is a template called something like Herald of the Gods. It is fitting if this queen of succubi is actually a deity.
 
@Miniman I was thinking more like "I remember this story from some old thread I can't find, it was about a guy with a super-long backstory nobody ever read who ruined a game, what was his name?"
but yeah the less the asker can remember
 
12:15 AM
Hey @Shalvenay
 
the harder it'll be for them to assert that it meets notability guidelines
next question: do we need notability guidelines?
 
@ShadowKras I always forget I have that book. I'll give it a look and see if that would fit. Thanks for the suggestion!
 
@A_S00 But that's basically what was asked, and doesn't really assert notability.
@A_S00 In general, I'm not sure notability is a good way to judge questions.
 
Its actually called Instrument of the Gods (CR+6, page 180).
 
"Is there an RPG where you explore dungeons and fight dragons?" isn't a better question than "Is there an RPG where you're ludicrously mutated creatures?" - if anything, it seems like a worse one.
 
12:18 AM
mhm
 
@ShadowKras Oof, mythic tiers. That's a bit more punch than I was looking for. I'll have to keep that in mind for another game, though.
 
so would you generally think that "identify this campaign story" questions should be on topic, and sufficiently obscure ones would just be hard to answer?
 
@A_S00 I'm not sure whether these questions should be on-topic or not.
 
Yeah, a CR 10 creature would get mythic tier 5
What is the base creature here, a succubus?
 
yeah I'm not super comfortable saying they should all be on topic, but it also seems ludicrous to me that a question about something like Tucker's Kobolds wouldn't be on topic here
 
12:19 AM
@ShadowKras Yep.
 
but now we're back to topicality depending on the answer
 
@A_S00 I totally get that - it's one reason I really don't know which way to go here.
 
@ShadowKras The idea is to have her detect as evil due to the Evil subtype but actually be good. Hence "semi-cheaty".
Mmm... Flesh Plant template. I forgot how much I enjoyed this book.
 
@Karelzarath just for fun, i applied the advanced template and added a bunch of racial hit die to get a CR 18 succubus. The result is.... Are you sure you dont want to use mythic instead?
 
@Miniman What limit do avoid when editing one of these questions? Would it be reasonable to rewrite the question to be more leading, after the answer has been given? This would offer the benefit of directing later google searches to that answer.
 
12:25 AM
@ShadowKras lol, yes, no mythic in this campaign. That's a whole subsystem to add solely for one creature, so the added complexity isn't worth it.
 
So she is supposed to be good? Do you want to turn her into a paladin?
 
She doesn't need to be a powerhouse. In fact, killing her is a "lose" condition for the campaign.
 
Because with 42 char, thats a good option
cha*
 
I considered that, but paladin's a bit too obvious.
 
@JackStout Not sure. I don't have the answers here, just a vague uncomfortableness with "this question is open because everyone knows the answer" vs "this question is closed because no-one knows the answer".
 
12:28 AM
@Karelzarath Gotta avoid classes with the Aura ability.
 
@ShadowKras Short short short summary of the plot: PCs are commoners in a village. NPCs find her in disguise and end up accidentally razing the village. PCs hunt down the NPCs and learn their mission to destroy a great but subtle evil (possibly killing them). PCs hunt her down and confront her.
@ShadowKras Yes. Very much so.
 
@nitsua60 @Miniman except that we admit the possibility that our on-spec judgment of a question might be fallible, and that seeing answers may inform our understanding of the question.
@nitsua60 Does that help us here? There aren't really any cues in the question that tell us the answer is something notable; guildsbounty and I just happen to have known that it was. If we hadn't, would the question have been closed as off-topic because it didn't appear to be about anything notable? If someone later came along who did know the answer (and knew it was something RPG-culture-relevant), how would they go about
answering the question?
Or would it just stay closed (incorrectly) as off-topic?
 
@Karelzarath, in what facets do you think this monster is lacking?
 
@A_S00 I wasn't really addressing this question there, just @Miniman's previous comment.
 
@nitsua60 so do you think (in general, not about this question in particular) that it's ok for a question's topicality to depend on what the answer to it is?
 
12:34 AM
@nitsua60 And you're right, of course. I'm just struggling with "Tell me the name of a story about a long and ever-changing backstory" being on topic while "Tell me the name of a story about a wizard drinking a martini" not being on-topic.
If the questions themselves aren't fundamentally different, why should one of them be on-topic and the other not?
 
@godskook A CR 9-10 monster isn't realistically capable of staving off an attack that would destroy the starting village, since the NPCs will need to be around level 13-ish to pull that off. Story-wise, she's the product of the love of two very powerful outsiders and should reflect such, especially the martial prowess of the herald. The default succubus... does not.
 
I guess sometimes it's unavoidable; if somebody asks an identification question on movies.SE and it turns out that the thing they were thinking of was in a TV show, then it was off topic but you don't know until the answer is posted
 
@A_S00 I believe movies.SE covers TV as well though
 
(well NEVER MIND THEN)
 
@A_S00 heh
 
12:35 AM
@Shalvenay It's fine as an example.
 
@Karelzarath, so just generally underpowered compared to her target CR, and within that, notably of a martial nature?
 
@godskook Pretty much spot on, yeah.
 
@Karelzarath what is the target CR?
18?
 
Does she have much background as being a ~trained~ character?
 
@ShadowKras 18 is what I'm ballparking now because that ends the campaign around 15th level.
 
12:39 AM
this is simply an HD advancement with the advanced template applied 3 times: mega.nz/#!dlUDGLSA!HFIA8z4Mh7ZElAqCNqIqNfKvOC_ulnQCORhYHZZv9AE
 
@Miniman Naively, maybe it's that the notability will take care of it? On average, if a question comes in that ends up being about Tucker's or OMH, an answer will come before 5 hold-votes. Or someone will notice the held votes and take it to meta "folks! that's OMH!" and we'll reopen. If it's not notable it'll get closed or not, and it'll go unanswered.
 
Her CDs are pretty high, but you should have at least 7 free feats to pick
 
@Miniman If someone came with the question "I remember reading some story about a campaign with a wizard with a martini, what is it?" I probably wouldn't close-vote. I wouldn't upvote, either.
 
@nitsua60 I'm not questioning that notability can be used as the deciding factor, I'm suggesting that maybe it shouldn't.
 
and roughly 82,000 gp in treasure to work with.
 
12:41 AM
(But I might read a decade of Dragon just to see...)
 
@nitsua60 Like I said, I also don't know whether these types of questions are on-topic or not.
 
@Miniman Right. I wouldn't worry about closing any of them. If we get a "flood" of them and our unanswered-rate ticks up from 0.1% to 0.5%, then we'll worry about it?
 
@ShadowKras For some reason, that hard-locks my browser when I try to download it.
Ah, crap, I need to get food and get to my game.
 
@Miniman They're about RPGs facially, they require expertise--or at least serious experience--to answer... I'm not strongly motivated to hold. (As off-topic, that is.)
 
Let me upload to dropbox
 
12:43 AM
@godskook @ShadowKras Thanks for the help. :)
 
@Karelzarath May the dice be in your favour.
 
@Karelzarath, you could go something like.....Swordsage 2/Sorcerer 4+ with Ascetic Mage
 
@nitsua60 I would upvote a write-up of this approach on the meta question
 
@Miniman (uh-oh, now it looks like we're having at least two conversations in three different places!!!)
 
hey there @Papayaman1000
 
12:44 AM
@A_S00 Can't do it now, but I'll try to get to it tonight.
 
@nitsua60 Yep, it's a little messy.
 
@Shalvenay eyyyyy
 
@nitsua60 that might be my fault, I came here to poke Miniman about the first comment because I didn't want to start a giant comment chain, but I didn't leave any tracks on the answer to show I'd done so
stack is hard
 
@Papayaman1000 how're things going?
 
12:46 AM
@nitsua60 I mean, to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time [*-identification] questions have been called into question. I'm not suggesting they should be off-topic, just questioning the validity of using notability as the primary criterion.
 
@Karelzarath, I take that back. Monk 1/Sorcerer 8 gives you access to Thunderlance and +Cha to AC. Combine with Luminous Armor spells for when she REALLY is desperate, assuming good alignment, which I think is accurate.
 
@Shalvenay okeyyyyyy
 
Basically, Sorcadin, monk-style, so she doesn't literally radiate alignment.
 
4
Q: Should we ban Game/System identification questions?

wax eagleJeff's Final Blog post discussed the issue of identification questions. We've gotten them from time to time. I support banning them for the following reasons RPG questions are often potentially incredibly localized ("I remember an adventure I played back in the 90s with these elements" - "Umm...

 
alright here
say, you mind if we hop over to the NAB to chat a bit @Papayaman1000?
 
12:49 AM
@Shalvenay sure, why not
 
@Miniman Watch meta--I think my thoughts are congealing enough for an answer. (But to which question...?) =)
 
@nitsua60 Ooooh, so enigmatic...
 
@godskook there are many builds that can work on that juicy charisma score of hers. Oracles, Monks (see paizo.com/threads/rzs2pa2b?Succubus-in-a-grapple#1), or even swashbuckler has good options.
 
@BESW Apparently I was a liberal goober back in 2012
 
If it's any comfort, I've never thought of you as a chocolate-covered peanut.
 
12:55 AM
what?
 
@BESW nor an individual peanut still in the shell.
 
@BESW a liberal goober translates to a chocolate covered peanut? where are you getting the chocolate from?
 
hey there @daze413
 
@A_S00 oh
I should have known, except I didn't so I didn't should have needed to
 
12:56 AM
@trogdor Everything is better with chocolate
 
@Shalvenay heya! Table Top DAY is coming! I'm excited to try and find a Catan Seafarers expansion somewhere in this table-top-forsaken country
 
@ACuriousMind well,.... not everything
 
@nitsua60 Incidentally, since we don't have enough concurrent discussion going on, I finally got to finish PotA!
 
@daze413 ah. as in a convention, or?
 
putting chocolate on Bacon ruins it, I bet
 
12:58 AM
@Shalvenay >_< tabletop DAY is coming. sorry was too excited
 
dont be a goober
 
@trogdor oh, you have never had a molé sauce I bet
@daze413 oh, xD
 
@trogdor I tried it, and it's actually really good
 
@trogdor I'm...not certain about that. Sounds like a case for science!
 
hey there @JoshuaAslanSmith
 
12:58 AM
but doesn't it like, smother the flavor of the bacon?
 
Mmmmh, bacon science.
 
@BESW I can already see that you late late man
do you not see the virtual torrent I have realeased by turning that floodgate handle?
:P
 
@trogdor not at all. Just melt some choco, fry some bacon, and dip em in it. (careful not to accidentally get the choco off-temper, though)
 
@Miniman Planking on the Aleutians?
 
1:00 AM
@BESW President of the Australia.
 
I hope you plan to share the pictures.
 
@daze413 so the temperature does tend to matter then
but it can certainly still be done right apparently, not the first time I have said something stupid and been immediately corrected by 3 or 4 people, I'll live
 
Projections of the Apocalypse (a financial planning seminar)
 
@Miniman President of the Australia,.... that sounds like someone did something real weird to Australia
 
@trogdor if chocolate gets too hot, it won't solidify when cooled-down, turning into something like chocolate (syrup?)- the kind you use for chocolate fountains. Rather, I should say, it's really tough to get back to its "tempered" state.
 
1:03 AM
@trogdor Too late!
 
@BESW curse you you thorn, one day I will be rid of your annoying banter :P
 
it's doable (DC15 Intelligence) but a real pain and a waste of otherwise good chocolate blocks.
 
Yeah, shell syrup usually relies on something like coconut oil for the re-hardening.
Related: lacquered bacon.
 
that I can definitely get behind
 
@Shalvenay hey man hows it going
 
1:15 AM
@JoshuaAslanSmith OK here, as for you?
 
@trogdor it has to be done right, either you want freshly cooked bacon and a drizzle of like a ganache OR you want bacon cooked sorta dry and left to cool and dry out that you then hardcoat with a dark chocolate
@Shalvenay just got caught up on the big doppelgreener and mxyzplk conversation over his meta post
it was insightful
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith to be fair to me, I think it's fair anyway, I was thinking of just freaking dipping the bacon in like, molten chocolate and calling it a day,.... which I am still sure is not the best way to do it anyway XD
 
I feel that Mxy really does at his core have the site's best interests at heart but that he has a hardcore Type A personality that doesn't always translate the best in the limited medium of internet text
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith I think he isn't the only person who has frequently been misunderstood on the internet either ^^
 
@trogdor I mean yeah if you wanna do a chocolate fondue that works too, Ive just had both experiences as sort of part of a job I once had and have some industry knowledge on chocofying bacon
@trogdor 100 percent yeah
 
1:20 AM
@JoshuaAslanSmith [sets chin in hands and gazes intently] Please tell me more.
 
cough heritic cough
 
@BESW are you looking to make some at home? how much experience do you have with tempering and cooling chocolate?
 
I'd like to be able to chocofy things (though probably not bacon) and have no experience with liquid chocolate.
 
@Miniman Oh, I missed this one, sorry. Will want to hear--ping me in another day or two?
 
@nitsua60 Sure, will do!
 
2:05 AM
@A_S00 the thoughts I was expressing above--did you think they should be an answer on the "questions about people's campaigns" meta question? They don't quite seem to fit, to me.
 
@nitsua60 -- p.s. I had something I wanted to toss your way on DIscord that we didn't get to in our earlier conversation
 
@nitsua60 I thought so - I've posted "yes this question is on topic because it's notable, but that raises the question of whether topicality should depend on answers." If you wanted, you could post an answer that says "yes this question is on topic because it's about RPGs, and the notability thing isn't really a problem - it will take care of itself because [reasons you outlined before]"
but like, only if you want to post that because you think it's a good answer
I don't get a say in the answers you post!
 
@A_S00 ah, that makes sense. I wasn't really seeing the daylight between me and your existing post until you put it that way. [crafts meta A]
@Shalvenay There now.
 
2:50 AM
@A_S00 okay, I barfed something out. Time to head home--don't want to hit 15 hours in the office in one day =\
 
@nitsua60 Looks good. Now go home!
 
 
1 hour later…
3:52 AM
@BESW Try cooking for engineers; it's where I've gotten a lot of how-to and technique info. Like making (sour) butter.
 
@Chemus sounds hilariously fun
 
@trogdor ...we really need sarcasm punctuation, so we can tell the diff...
 
@Chemus it wasn't sarcasm,.....
 
Irony punctuation is any proposed form of notation used to denote irony or sarcasm in text. Written English lacks a standard way to mark irony, and several forms of punctuation have been proposed. Among the oldest and most frequently attested is the percontation point proposed by English printer Henry Denham in the 1580s, and the irony mark, used by Marcellin Jobard and French poet Alcanter de Brahm during the 19th century. Both marks take the form of a reversed question mark, "βΈ®". Irony punctuation is primarily used to indicate that a sentence should be understood at a second level. A bracketed...
 
@BESW This is what they say for Tempering Chocolate
 
3:55 AM
@Chemus I just meant like, that cooking with that mindset is funny, but not that it is actually "silly"
 
@trogdor I see, but it's so hard to tell without cues. And it easily could have been.
 
@Chemus fair enough
 
@trogdor I like it because it's got so much of the 'why' of cooking. Much like Alton Brown's Good Eats. But without the sock-puppets...
 
@Chemus, thanks for that cooking site
 

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