« first day (1463 days earlier)   

12:17 AM
@Metool that is actually really entertaining chanting type stuff
at least to me it is
 
12:51 AM
[flags a comment as an answer in comments]
[it disappears as soon as i submit the flag]
this is some efficient mod work
(it was probably already deleted between the time i saw the comment and finished flagging i)
 
1:23 AM
 
Question, anyone know of an official Werewolf the Forsaken errata?
 
Hmm let me think
WW/OP is really bad about eratas compaioed to WoTC
I have decided to end my cruisaide against the use of [tag:nwod-god-machine] with [tag:nwod]. At least for Crossover games.
It is still my beleif that a Crossover game is normally a nwod-god-machine only game with some ported content. But I don't care anymore how it is tagged.
 
Ok. I'm looking to see if there is some sort of errata clarification on Two World Eyes.
 
@Dorian. I am fairly sure there isn't. Alot of this kinda thing was lost when Whiteolf reset their site, twice, and closed there forum.
 
lovely =_=
 
1:27 AM
There is a Unoffical Erata on the Onyx Path forum. But it isn't really designed to be used as a Erata
its more like "Here are some spot fixes, you can use some of them, and not others if you like"
 
I didn't find that one. found the one at wikispaces though
 
Threre is this one, that is probably the result of stalking a Dev though his online interactions (I've done htat before)
Onyx Path Devs are on the Onyx Path Forums (Particyularly Rose Baily (Vampire/Demon), and some freelancers show up in RPG.Net and very rarely here.
Also Periodically a Onyx Path Dev will show up on /tg/ and answer all questions (Edwin or eric or something like that I can't remember the name).
 
Hmm.. nothing on two world eyes...
 
...someone has pulled an Oberoni on me in Worldbuilding.
 
Either I heavily misunderstood the gift (so much so that I can't see how I misunderstood it) or since they didn't specify certain things the gift is not worth it.
Question time I guess.
 
1:46 AM
@trogdor I lose myself in the rhythm quite easily, especially on the levels playing tunes in that style.
 
0
Q: How does the gift Two-World Eyes work in comparison to Dual Senses?

DorianThe Dual Senses rule allows a Werewolf to see across the Gauntlet with two penalties, firstly they cannot see clearly, the vision they get is blurred and fogged. The second penalty is of course not being able to see the side of the Gauntlet you're standing in. The only way you can see clearly i...

 
2:01 AM
@Metool I looked up a bit of it, it can be pretty mesmerizing
 
Random probably unanswerable ponderage: To what extent does the Oberoni fallacy contribute to the number of GMs and the kind of person who becomes a GM?
 
To the number of GMs as a whole?
 
(And how has this changed over the history of RPGs?)
@Emrakul Yeah. A common complaint is that nobody wants to GM, and in fact early on in gaming history Rule 0 was in part described as a bribe of power to get reluctant gamers to take up the GM mantle.
 
Rule 0? GM has final say?
 
Yup. Rule 0 is the foundation of the Oberoni fallacy, really.
On an entirely different note, Atomic Robo: The Roleplaying Game has a very unfortunate acronym, especially for talking about it out loud.
 
2:15 AM
Speaking for myself, I generally prefer to play rather than GM. I ended up GMing Shadowrun years ago because it was the only way I'd get to play in that world/system. And I'm only GMing D&D 3.5 now, because our other game kept getting postponed due to unavailability, and nobody else was willing to run it. (and now, my game keeps getting postponed due to illness, and the other game is running on schedule, minus some players)
 
Does that preference have anything to do with the expectation that you'll be the final arbiter responsible for ensuring the system's functionality?
 
ARTRG? Art-turg.
 
I prefer not to GM, because I don't want that responsibility? Maybe. But, more like, I don't want to run the whole world & worry about balanced encounters etc. Much more fun to just embody one character, to me.
 
@shatterspike1 ARRPG.
 
Artur-P-G
 
2:24 AM
@shatterspike1 Ah, that's a Knights of the Round Table retelling without all the incest.
3
 
Ah. The pun. Ow.
 
2:44 AM
Idea.
Exalted idea.
Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold. Vow of Poverty. Feral and Saint templates. Warlock/Hellfire Warlock/Enlightened Spirit with a few dips.
This has the makings of something great, I can feel it.
 
That sounds like , not .
 
Vow of Poverty is an exalted feat :P
Saint requires three exalted feats.
This is an exalted kobold of divine power!
 
Any particular reason why you chose VoP as one of them?
 
Glaivelock build doesn't require weapons, and there are a list of stackable bonuses too.
Add to that a dip into Battledancer, and with Saint's AC bonus... Feral too. You'd be rocking AC so high armor would seem redundant. The only thing the build's lacking is SR and reactive resistance but I can deal.
Dip Binder so you don't have to worry about Hellfire Warlock's con drain and you don't have to get items to do that.
Between DR, AC, and fast healing... You'd be one tough cookie.
 
VoP is an universally weak option, as it's always better to have adaptable money-derived benefits than fixed benefits (and pure numbers-wise, you're losing effective bonuses compared to someone using the wealth expected at any given level).
From a purely optimisation-for-power standpoint, it's a bad choice.
I've used it when optimising for other considerations, deliberately reducing the complexity and power of my character.
 
2:52 AM
Won't need weapons due to Eldritch Glaive. That portion of the character is the optimization for power.
Plus, it matches the Sagelike/Yoda type of vibe I'm trying to give off.
 
If it's for RP or meta-game reasons, that's obviously a different kettle of fish. But when I asked why you chose it, you said it was because it'd make for a powerful character.
 
And I can dump a good portion of my gold into the party fund, so my fellow champions of good can use it, and the rest I can donate to various churches.
 
I like the feat, flavour-wise, a lot. But mechanically it's trash, and that's a choice I had to make when I was in that system.
 
The flavor fits, and mechanically it also stacks well enough that it won't cripple this build
Most builds need weapons, mine doesn't. Many builds need armor, mine does not. I don't even need spell components, healing, or many other things most adventurers need.
 
> Having a character in the party who has taken a vow of poverty should not necessarily mean that the other party members get bigger shares of treasure! An ascetic character must be as extreme in works of charity as she is in self-denial. The majority of her share of party treasure (or the profits from the sale thereof) should be donated to the needy. [emphasis mine]
 
2:56 AM
I know that BESW.
I've read the book back and forth.
 
If your GM is willing to overlook or re-work that paragraph, that's fine. But as worded, "A good portion of your gold" should not be going to the party.
 
it would still be my allotment, and the "party fund" is not increasing shares to the party.
It is "as needed for the good of the party"
"As needed for the success of the mission"
"As needed to further the good cause we work for"
It's essentially a pool of money everyone contributes to and people take when needed. Thus far we haven't touched it.
A good portion could vary alot. Most treasure items would go to the party member that needs them the most regardless (last encounter we had a good 75% of the loot went to one dude, it was all caster stuff and he was the only caster in the party).
The only thing that gets split in "shares" in this party is the stuff we sell.
Hmm... Can Subduing Strike make Eldritch Glaive nonlethal? That would be quite interesting... and make Vow of Peace a viable option.
 
Didn't we have the "Eldritch Glaive is a weapon"/"No it isn't" thing already?
 
:P
 
If it's a weapon, Subduing Strike applies. If it's not, Subduing Strike doesn't, because Subduing Strike only works on weapons.
 
3:04 AM
Right.
And again, RAW on whether it is or not a weapon is unclear.
Something to ponder though...
Depending on how this goes... I'm going to need to look at templates that buff charisma I think.
 
It is "weaponlike," but I have too little interest to investigate all the implications of that term.
 
Finally dropping swordsage if I can get the Saint template.
But I might consider dropping Swordsage if I can't still... I need to chat with my DM the implications of the Saint template, how they interact with say Hellfire Warlock (I know there's a flavor adaptation in there, but that's DM option).
Dropping Phrenic altogether too I think... Too much to worry about.
There's also the problem that one of my party members is Lawful Evil... And another is Chaotic Good leaning towards Chaotic Neutral. The CG is the Hulk, and him I can work on and steer probably. The LE is the Trip God (now with demonic wings). He's not an outsider, but I doubt he'd be willing to convert. I'd be worried that that would hurt my Sainthood.
 
3:35 AM
@BESW kettle...?
 
Hey, I have a question about posting links... When I tried to post a link to some creatures from the compendium it says that I'm not allowed to post links from D&Dinsider; however, I got the links originally from a question I asked previously...
So clearly, someone did it.
 
What's "it" that tells you this? The Stack Exchange site, the Wizards site, something else?
 
The stack exchange site.
 
Hmm. That sounds like a good meta question.
 
3:51 AM
Nevermind, was my own error.... was a space in my 1st link. :P
 
@Masaka that would be it
also check this out:
 
Oooer. Hey, @trogdor, remember that "you get to pick who goes next at the end of your turn" initiative thing we used in the latter days of 4e?
 
aw, that doesn't onebox. But it's our markdown editing help.
 
ARRG uses it as a default!
 
wait a minute
 
3:57 AM
And even suggests a similar prop use to what we were doing.
 
@BESW are you suggesting there's an RPG with 'ARRPG' for an acronym
and it isn't a pirate RPG?
 
@doppelgreener Atomic Robo: The Roleplaying Game.
 
... ok this is permissable
Somehow I feel like there should be a YARRPG, or a YAHARPG, about pirates
2
 
The Young Alien Highschool Athletes Role-playing Game?
 
No! About pirates!
Sailing the seas! Raiding ships! Getting various liver and oral diseases! Drinking rum! Getting wooden limbs! Getting into fights and losing teeth! Getting wooden teeth!
and instead of saying it verbally as "that pirates arr pee gee", I can call it the "yaharrr pee gee". The book will instruct the reader to try and make the "yahar" part sound as piratey as possible.
 
4:04 AM
Ye Alcoholic Heel-Arsed Rogue: The RPG.
Hmm. ARRG models "surprise" as "roll 4dF for defence but don't add any skill rating to it."
 
@BESW that sounds like a glorious title.
@BESW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course! Surprise attacks are a fun part of H&S. 8)
I think I should get this Atomic Robo RPG's book and absorb it into my brain.
 
ARRG is swiftly becoming my favourite reference guide for Fate implementations.
I really REALLY like going back to the choose-as-you-go initiative order.
Oooh...
> The best way to understand stress is that it represents all the various reasons why you just barely avoid taking the full force of an attack. [...] Stress boxes also represent a loss of momentum—you only have so many last-second saves in you before you’ve got to face the music.
Evil Hat is getting better and better at explaining Fate mechanics.
Although ARRG is using mental and physical stress boxes, and I'm still not seeing a good reason for that beyond "legacy."
At some point along here I'm going to write up "BESW's sweet spot for the Fate dials."
Oh, and the book uses frames/pages from the actual comics to illustrate the mechanics in action.
Oooer. They've got a group pool of consequences which simultaneously do four things: It lets the party hang on through ridiculously challenging events; it modles the impact of the party's actions on the environment; it encourages the group to clean up its messes (as you have to remove a mild or moderate collateral consequence right away or it sticks around for a long time); and it forces character and setting development (as severe and extreme consequences help define the next story).
 
4:44 AM
Oh, man. Brainstorming is awesome. And stuffed with SCIENCE!
 
@BESW yeah I do
why?
are you thinking of using it now?
 
ARRG uses it as the default initiative model.
And, yeah, I really like it. Not gonna implement it for the DFAE game, but afterward...
 
@BESW the schwa?
is that the talk/act/run/fight thing?
(or talk/run/act/fight)
 
@doppelgreener No, though it's somewhat similar in its dynamism.
We implemented it toward the end of our D&D 4e campaign, and I rather liked it.
We'd lay out index cards on the table with everybody's name on one card. Then we'd roll initiative like normal to see who goes first.
When that person's turn was over, they'd turn over their card and choose who went after them from the face-up cards.
Then that person, at the end of his turn, would turn over his card and choose who went next from the remaining face-up cards.
Repeat until all the cards are facedown: end of the round, turn all the cards face-up again and the last person in the previous round picks the first person in the next round.
This was great for a tactical game like 4e, and I imagine it's just as good for a narrative game like Fate.
 
Source. Lifted wholesale from Marvel RPG.
I was thinking of trying it out in our game, would love to see its implementation in ARRPG.
 
4:58 AM
@Magician It's exactly the same. If someone obviously initiated the conflict, they go first. Otherwise roll skills (in ARRG, it's modes) as appropriate to determine the first turn.
 
Is ARRPG significantly different from Core? I'm thinking of getting the physical book to have a handy rules reference.
 
There are two stores in the city here that reliably stock RPGs: Good Games and Ace Comics & Games. The former can't stock it, the latter's ordered it but it hasn't arrived yet.
So there is some hope!
@Magician Yes.
 
@Magician It is. It's MUCH crunchier and better explained in several places, but it doesn't have the concept of dials.
 
I see. Well, I want to see the crunch anyway, and we may well end up using it.
 
@Magician It's different enough from Core I'm picking it up mostly as reference for designing my own Fate RPG thingy.
 
5:00 AM
It delves into point-buy customisation at the "make your own skill" level and has some really cool alternate takes on default Core settings.
 
Because it comes with a lot of ideas that are excellent for it.
 
For example, Fate Core has extras cost Refresh. ARRG has extras give the GM more Fate points.
 
Huh.
That's... huh.
 
@BESW which is a fantastic idea - it means a net increase in Fun Things, rather than a decrease of fate points.
 
This is partly because many extras are equipment on loan from your Science Organisation sponsor rather than your own stuff, so you'll be gaining and losing them between scenes and stories.
 
5:02 AM
It's almost like being able to eat your cake and still have it.
(Brief soapbox: the saying "can't have your cake and eat it too" would make more sense if it was reordered as "can't eat your cake and have it too")
 
If you bring a Tesladyne Charged Particle Beam Cannon to a fight, the GM has the resources to ensure you'll need a Tesladyne Charged Particle Beam Cannon in that fight.
 
@BESW Oh god this turn order sounds brilliant
 
@doppelgreener It's going to be a little harder to track over Skype.
 
@BESW Yes. But, this is all impetus to keep working on Fate Looms.
 
Yes.
 
5:06 AM
I have realised I have a destructive pattern I am now catching and avoiding:
1. Decide I want to do a thing.
2. Start doing the thing.
3. Doing the thing is going pretty well. Get more ambitious, and decide I want to do some extra things too.
4. The extra things prove difficult/impossible.
5. Stop doing the thing AND the extra things.
I am tuning down #3 where I think I should just finish #2 before #3. I am also replacing #5 with "Stop doing the extra things, just do the original thing."
 
yey!
 
Is that the Thing(tm)?
 
@Miniman Hm? Is what what thing?
Oh!
 
@doppelgreener A reference.
 
No. Not that thing. I will have nothing to do with that thing ever I hope.
this is just an arbitrary thing.
 
5:14 AM
@doppelgreener I don't think we're talking about the same Thing(tm) here. Since for legal reasons the Thing(tm) can only ever be referred to as the Thing(tm).
 
@Miniman Do we mean the one made of rocks, or the one that features in a horror movie set in the arctic, or some other the Thing(tm)?
 
@doppelgreener The Thing(tm) from the Soddit was the one I was talking about.
 
@Miniman Oh. I don't know this variety of the Thing(tm).
@BESW also various little web experiments like the Kittens game have let me relax: the first version can have loads of imperfections, it just needs to be fairly functional.
 
Kittens game?
 
the game where you pretend to be cute while you wait to be big and coordinated enough to murder things?
 
5:21 AM
@Magician The kittens game. It's a progress game, like Cookie Clicker. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
And for the love of everyone in this channel and their productivity, I know sometimes we star messages that share resources or sites, but don't star that message.
 
Hah. I'm already playing it :D
 
Me too hahaha.
 
Probably the best incremental that I've seen.
As in, an actual game.
 
Yes I agree. :)
 
ARRG has subsystems dealing with inventing Weird Things and figuring out what Weird Things the PCs are encountering. In both systems, there's a brilliant little bit of Fate narrative authority:
When Action Scientists are hypothesising about Weird Science, they're never wrong. They either figure out what Weird Science is happening, or they don't, but they're never WRONG about an answer they come up with. This means the players get to tell the GM significant things about the plot.
And when Action Scientists are inventing Weird Things, they never fail: instead the invention process's mechanical purpose is to figure out what it does well and what its flaws are, and whether the players or the GM get to choose for each of those.
 
5:35 AM
That sounds awesome.
 
So if I turn on my calibrifier, and unexpectedly it begins melting and channeling lightning from the sky, my character could shout out over the racket: "THE ELECTROMAGNETIC ACTIVITY MUST HAVE REVERSED THE POLARITY!!" - they might never find out whether that was truly the case, but because they guessed it was, that's what was happening?
 
Oh, man, I love brainstorming. Especially the way it fits into combat.
@doppelgreener Not quite. Brainstorming is a fun interactive process!
When Action Scientists are trying to figure something out, they don't just start with a hypothesis! That's bad science.
 
@doppelgreener I think you have to roll first, and hammer it out with the group
 
So it starts with a series of opposed checks by all the Action Scientists involved in the brainstorm. The winner of each round gets to establish a fact related to the Weird Thing they're trying to figure out.
If, after three rounds of this, there aren't at least three facts, they don't have enough information to form a hypothesis. This means the GM gets to place an aspect like Science can't explain it! to represent their puzzlement.
 
yeah,.. and not like,... freaking everything about it
it would be messed up if it worked that way
 
5:40 AM
But if there are at least three facts, then everyone rolls again to see who gets to combine those facts into a hypothesis to explain the Weird Thing.
The hypothesis is an aspect with free invokes based on how many facts informed it, and the hypothesis is always true.
So it's basically the players vying to come up with various true statements about the Weird Thing which one of them gets to combine into an explanation of the Weird Thing.
 
I presume the players who really, really want to create the hypothesis can spend fate points on their roll?
 
Naturally.
 
That sounds really fantastic.
 
In fact, that part of the book concludes with a few paragraphs about how the GM may get to just sit back and listen during a brainstorm, but should always be ready to take advantage of opportunities to compel them for drama.
> “Seems like a Team Player wouldn’t be so adamant about advancing his own ideas when another scientist’s have already gained traction. I don’t know; maybe it’s just me.”
> “Strong and weak forces? Really? And not the Freemasons? Does that sound like something a Conspiracy Theorist would buy into?”
 
@BESW Hahaha!
 
5:47 AM
This whole "Action Scientists are never wrong" thing is actually rather similar in concept to the DFAE "If you can perform a ritual, it always works" idea.
I suspect we're seeing a relatively recent Evil Hat epiphany.
 
About making the players better able to shape the story and such?
 
Yes, and about where drama should be.
 
(Heck, in DFAE, if they can theorise how to perform the ritual, they're already telling the GM what they want to be doing next...)
 
> Now that you know the invention’s purpose, it’s time to decide how it actually works—in game terms, anyway. Don’t sweat the actual science too much. Let the characters worry about that.
 
like: "time to turn this into mechanical bits"?
aspects, fractals, etc?
 
5:52 AM
Specifically picking what stunt-like effects it has, if any.
 
Ok :)
 
(This defines the difficulty of the Science roll to make the thing, how many complications it introduces to the story, and whether the player or the GM chooses those complications.)
Complications can be just adding points to the GM's Fate pool, or the process of making the invention has a "catch," some story complication which might require its own adventure to resolve.
Bweheheh. Catch: You attract the attention of Majestic 12. Serious catch: You attract the attention of Dr. Dinosaur.
 
"The descrambliser is complete! We'll be able to crack that safe's combination now. Now then... does anyone remember the password for activating it?"
@BESW Fate is on Sunday this weekend, right?
 
@doppelgreener Yes. 6:30ish.
 
Perfect; I'll be spending a good chunk of Saturday assembling furniture.
 
6:07 AM
Woo?
 
Yes. :D
 
lol
it works out fine for me too
though I would have still gone if we had it on Saturday
I am a pretty predictable person
 
6:27 AM
Posting so that 'load to my last message' works and I don't have to scroll through extra transcript.
 
[amused]
 
ha, good idea
 
that has actually been an issue for me
 
6:44 AM
...I'm only halfway through the ARRG manual.
Though a lot of this GM material is very familiar. [skims]
 
7:26 AM
"This is 33% less bullet in my body than my average shooting. I'll call this a good shooting. 4/5 would be shot by this man again"
2
 
Perspective!
 
Indeed
(Also Adventurers.gif)
 
7:53 AM
....Atomic Robo and Lupe Fiasco just collided in my head and I really really shouldn't try to make the resulting scenario happen.
 
@BESW I was under some Elder Influence in thinking of a character while mowing the lawn just an hour ago or so
I think he even actually works in the Atomic Robo Universe though
from my understanding at least
 
Oh, my.
 
then again, you know this kind of thing is relatively normal for me
especially when we were playing 4e, my free time didn't pass most weeks without me making at least one character, in my head or otherwise
and by otherwise I mean on the Character Builder, even if the majority of them sat in a folder and never got used
I made way too many of them XD
 
8:11 AM
Good morning.
 

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