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5:00 PM
My fingers apparently have some kind of contract with the OED.
 
> Dinner with Team Gollancz was an exercise in planteration — in that there was more fabby food than even tables of writers and editors could reasonably consume.
 
some of those are in NOAD
never mind. they are not.
👍
 
> I bowed. “Among the divisions of administration, Abdiesus, it has long been
customary to exclude one—my own—from the society of the others.”

“And you feel that is unjust, which is wholly natural. Tonight, if you wish to
think of it in that way, we will be making some restitution.”

“We of the guild have never complained of injustice. Indeed, we have gloried in
our unique isolation. Tonight, however, the others may feel they have reason to
protest to you.”

A smile twitched at his mouth. “I’m not concerned about that Here, this will get
 
Hey so my font problem on FF: turns out it goes away if I disable hardware acceleration in FF.
 
My mouse is complaining that I don't feed it enough batteries.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What font problem was that?
 
5:11 PM
8
Q: Some Unicode fonts not working in Windows 7/Firefox

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇My use-case is that I want to display Egyptian Hieroglyphics: 𓀀 𓀁 𓀂 𓀃 𓀄 𓀅 𓀆 𓀇 𓀈 𓀉 𓀊 𓀋 𓀌 𓀍 𓀎 𓀏 𓀐 𓀑 𓀒 𓀓 𓀔 𓀕 𓀖 𓀗 𓀘 𓀙 𓀚 𓀛 𓀜 𓀝 𓀞 𓀟 𓀠 𓀡 𓀢 𓀣 These are part of Unicode 5.2. I tried installing the Aegyptus font, as well as the Google Noto fonts. The result is t...

 
Hmm.
 
So now at least I know why it's working on the VMs
 
I see. I don't have a lot of call for Egyptian hieroglyphics in the work I do.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That is . . . remarkable.
 
@Robusto Yeah. Well, s/Egtyptian Heiroglyphics/Any Supplementary-multilingual-plane glyphs/ and the problem is the same.
 
5:17 PM
Must. Not. Infest. The. Pineapples.
They prickle enough without adding more to the confection.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Now, that is what I had not previously gleaned from you. I thought some SMP codepoints were fine while others were scuppered, so I could make no tails nor heads of the mystery.
 
@tchrist yes, so far this does seem limited to SMP scripts. But the SMP scripts do partially work. — Mr. Shiny and New 安宇 Jul 17 at 18:26
by "partially" I meant "when not relying on automatic substitution"
 
Ok, I’m back to magnum mysterium.
 
So I'm going to guess that FF is offloading the substitution to the video driver and my driver doesn't support it.
 
This is just like trying to feed an ASCII stream down a six-bit data path.
At some point, Bad Things happen.
 
5:22 PM
Bad Things™
®
 
Note that I cannot, eg, use hieroglyphs in filenames. I see a little square box. (but only one box, not two)
 
I’d bet you a cantaloupe that someone somewhere is somewhen stuffing a 21-bit character into a 16-bit hole.
I think I need lunch.
 
searches for pic of Mad Hatter and March Hare trying to stuff @Cerberus into a teapot
 
You could still see one box not two if the naughtiness I allude to above happens halfway through the API stack at a place you never notice.
 
5:25 PM
@tchrist perhaps. But I think it's just that font-sub for smp isn't supported anywhere. Firefox has its own implementation.
 
Now we know what happened to the Egyptians.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You may be right, but if you are, that’d be a world of dumb, wouldn’t it?
 
@tchrist I honestly cannot explain what is happening otherwise.
 
This is an endemic UTF-16 fuckup. People never make this class of error when they use either UTF-32 or UTF-8 throughout. It’s the damned UTF-16 representation that various and sundry malinformed programmers mutilate so thoroughly.
It of course does not have to be this way, but it is.
It’s an error-prone encoding that fourth-rate programmers keep screwing up.
 
Well. The Windows API predates UTF-32 and UTF-8. It's not easy to fix it.
 
Not much of an excuse there.
 
5:33 PM
Well, how should they fix it?
 
And meanwhile, the cantaloups-garoux are gaining on you.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 By kicking the collective and individual asses of programmers who still think that UTF-16 and UCS-2 are the same thing.
 
@tchrist You know that won't really help. For one thing, nobody reads documentation, etc. You can't make people do things right. For another thing, they need to maintain binary compatibility with old UCS-2 programs. So it's not a trivial matter to just change everything.
I mean, I would love to see various dev environments fix things up to make it hard to work with text unless you are doing it right. e.g. assuming there's no default platform encoding, always requiring a character encoding name, using 4-byte unicode, etc.
But all of our platforms are old.
Even the new ones are based on old standards.
 
or we could just force everyone to buy a Mac and that would also solve the problem.
 
Unicode became 21 bits before the end of the previous millennium. They have no excuse for crappy ancient shit.
 
@tchrist Yeah but Windows's Unicode api was carved into stone in the mid 90s.
 
5:39 PM
Then they were idiots.
 
@tchrist if you bold and italic any time reference it sounds like a long time ago
 
Stone tablets are meant to be broken.
 
@tchrist well, so were the unicode people for standardizing on 16 bits first, I guess.
 
We are now in the mid-(two decades later).
 
"Seemed like a good idea at the time" (tm)
 
5:40 PM
I feel that two decades is an idiotically long time to keep doing things wrong.
 
@tchrist There are basically no popular platforms that do things right.
 
Entire internet civilizations rise and fall in that time.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I so want to kickeroo that line. :)
It’s not like “popular” hasn’t never meant brain-dead stupid before.
 
FWIW the .net platform seems to do things right
 
@tchrist Well, are there even any unpopular platforms that "just work" with all of unicode?
@JSBձոգչ can one char in .net encompass all of unicode?
If so, I'm jealous, stuck here in Java land
 
and actually, isn't the entire point of your long answer about perl is that there is no such thing as "just works" when it comes to unicode?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 i believe that a Character in .net is 32 bits and contains exactly 1 unicode codepoint
let me check that
 
5:43 PM
I don’t have problems with it on Macs or other Unix forms, nor in Perl. I’m not sure how many platforms that counts as.
 
@tchrist I dunno. I read that answer you wrote about how to make it work in Perl.
 
@JSBձոգչ No, fucking up the separation between physical and logical code points is a completely different class of screwup.
 
@AndrewLeach - this question really wasn't a good fit on Workplace, as it is not a Workplace question but is a question about the English language
-1
Q: Is it correct to say “remarkable culinary skills” in a résumé?

user280902I’m writing a résumé for someone and under skills I’d like to say that they have excellent skills at baking, cooking, and other kitchen-oriented things. Not sure if I’m phrasing it right, but I want to say that they are excellent at baking and cooking with their own company.

 
That is, you should not have to think about bit representations: that’s the whole point of having a Unicode Transformation Format.
 
> The .NET Framework uses the Char structure to represent a Unicode character. The Unicode Standard identifies each Unicode character with a unique 21-bit scalar number called a code point, and defines the UTF-16 encoding form that specifies how a code point is encoded into a sequence of one or more 16-bit values. Each 16-bit value ranges from hexadecimal 0x0000 through 0xFFFF and is stored in a Char structure. The value of a Char object is its 16-bit numeric (ordinal) value.
 
5:45 PM
People who confuse characters and bytes are the same ones who confuse pointers and integers.
 
@JSBձոգչ yeah they do it the same dumb way as java
 
@JSBձոգչ That’s messed up and you know it.
 
> A String object is a sequential collection of Char structures that represents a string of text. Most Unicode characters can be represented by a single Char object, but a character that is encoded as a base character, surrogate pair, and/or combining character sequence is represented by multiple Char objects. For this reason, a Char structure in a String object is not necessarily equivalent to a single Unicode character.
this is from the official docs
 
If a “char” cannot hold a character, they’ve fucked up. True or false?
 
now i'm wondering if str.Length is the same thing as str.ToCharArray().Length
or if str.Length knows about surrogate pairs etc.
 
5:47 PM
It is obscene to imagine that a single instance of a character data type is incapable of holding a single character.
 
> In 1996, a surrogate character mechanism was implemented in Unicode 2.0, so that Unicode was no longer restricted to 16 bits.
 
What year is it?
 
See, if only they'd done that in 1994 instead; then Java would've been okay with 4 byte chars
 
> Because a single character can be represented by multiple Char objects, it is not always meaningful to work with individual Char objects. For instance, the following example converts the Unicode code points that represent the Aegean numbers zero through 9 to UTF-16 encoded code units. Because it erroneously equates Char objects with characters, it inaccurately reports that the resulting string has 20 characters.
 
There is no excuse for this to keep going.
 
5:48 PM
But .net is way later. It has no excuse.
 
I have never seen Linux make a UTF-16 error. Gee, I wonder why?
 
@tchrist The excuse is binary compatibility with existing stuff.
@tchrist Linux is not immune. Every single program needs to be coded separately.
And most of those programs are coded in C, which is like the worst-case scenario for unicode support.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 If you never use but UTF-8 and UTF-32, not the invitation-to-a-fuck-up we call UTF-16, it is not a problem.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 i think the excuse is that many programmers want a string to be an array of char, and want to be able to manipulate that array using ordinary array tools. they seem to have implemented that correctly, but the docs warn you that this doesn't work once you leave the BMP
there are additional classes like StringInfo which let you do fancy unicode stuff
 
@tchrist You know as well as I do that it's more complicated than that. If you have a UTF-8 string in C you can't use any of the stdlib functions to deal with it. You have to take special care with every string. You have to ensure that your imported libraries also do the same. etc, etc. And because ascii is a subset of utf-8, your program may appear to work until you feed it Chinese.
@JSBձոգչ Yes, but the char could be just 4 bytes instead of 2 and it'd be fine.
Instead they made it match the old, internal Windows implementation of unicode.
 
5:52 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You have a legitimate point there, but you are also neglecting one. sizeof(wchar_t) == 4.
And if it doesn’t, it’s wrong.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Which is why Linux doesn’t suck.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 i rather suspect that the answer to that is "memory usage"
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Without glibc or ICU, all hope is lost.
 
@tchrist Exactly. Without using a special feature and ignoring all the old default features, everything is lost. Well, the same goes for Windows and .net and Java and perl. If you know what you're doing, full unicode support is possible. If you don't, all hope is lost.
@JSBձոգչ I think it's so that they can easily provide compatibility between Win32 and .net
 
No, people are just dumb. strlen returns a size_t result.
It’s a byte thing.
And technically, you can’t even use it on UTF-8 to get UTF-8 bytes.
 
part of me would like to say that a string should be an array of UTF-8 bytes, and you can go ahead and get the individual bytes if you want, but if you want the 32-bit char object then by gum you'd better invoke this here Unicode parsing state machine
 
5:58 PM
@JSBձոգչ You have to do that to get grapheme clusters anyway, so it is no great loss.
Please add a length to your string structure. Then it is doable.
 
@enderland It's off-topic here because we don't do writing advice. It's not asking for synonyms or anything. Workplace mods were consulted and accepted it as on-topic there following suggestions from the community here. The question concerns how best to big up a particular set of skills and how that should appear on a CV.
 
@tchrist we have one, but i strongly suspect that it's the Length of the 16-bit char array and not the character lengeth
 
@JSBձոգչ shakes head
This is all conflating physical bits with logical code points. Down that road lie madness and despair.
 
> The Length property returns the number of Char objects in this instance, not the number of Unicode characters. The reason is that a Unicode character might be represented by more than one Char. Use the System.Globalization.StringInfo class to work with each Unicode character instead of each Char.
^ as expected
 
Dumbissimo.
So screwed up.
By design, no less.
 
6:02 PM
@AndrewLeach I"ll ask around I guess, thanks
 
They should not have named them Char types. They should have named that type an unsigned hexadecimal double_octet or something equally tedious.
If you can’t call a spade a spade, for the love of the Mike don’t call it a char.
 
and yet, in practice, this almost never matters, because almost no one ever uses char (in .net)
you can sling non-BMP text all day long and it never misses a beat
 
@JSBձոգչ Tell that to Stack Exchange.
They are constantly getting it wrong.
 
sighs
 
Ok, I want to know what all the delayed-blast fireballs are about.
I keep getting pinged when nobody pings me, and there are no non-stealth edits, nor does anybody pop up in the roster for the stealth ones, nor am I being mentioned in some other room.
This happens now and again. I had a run of it some time ago, too. Months like.
 
6:20 PM
@tchrist Is it possible you have a browser tab that is trying to play audio, but getting blocked, and then when it unblocks it suddenly plays a bunch of sounds all at once?
That used to happen to me in the old days, when my linux system could only handle one app playing sounds at once.
 
7:05 PM
is it okay to mark a question as a dupe if it's not exactly the same, but asking about the same idea?
I thought this was a dupe.
because I googled it in more general terms, and the same thing he's asking exists already.
flags things and causes a ruckus
also, this question is so funny.
> Can someone please explain the difference between literal and figurative to me, with a bunch of examples and whatnot?
aaah! and some asshole named Josh or Jim or something keeps orphaning my comments.
is frustrated
 
7:34 PM
He didn't orphan your comment. It was boilerplate from his close vote that was removed after the question was closed.
@GeorgeCapote And yes.
 
ah.
I cannot see these things.
is just a kleinkind
 
@tchrist how about charizard, charmeleon or charmander?
 
My sons love those guys.
 
I'm more of a squirtle, wartortle, blastoise kinda guy
 
I get that.
 
7:45 PM
:O
the number of the beast
 
goes looking for something to upvote to kill the beast
 
ah.
stops listening to metal
 
Now the hippo is innocent again :)
 
I am very happy that that cool guy RegDwigнt edited my question!
but then choster did too, and changed the word "effected" to "affected" and that's not what I mean.
I mean the verb "to effect"
 
as in "he effected a swarthy manner"?
just edit it back
 
7:51 PM
is it okay to edit back when someone cooler than me edited it forward?
 
if it's not what you meant, then yes. there's an explanation box you can comment in, to explain why you rolled it back
 
okay, cool. that made my comment redundant too, so it's neater.
 
indeed
 
@oerkelens innocent, but still loud and fussy.
@MattЭллен what sound does Э make?
Эllen
 
which skin is the toughest hippo or croco?
 
7:56 PM
is it just 'eh'
I guess it depends on language. words/names that start with 'e' in Romanian can be kind of a 'ye' sound too.
 
@GeorgeCapote /ɛ/
@GeorgeCapote depends how you pronounce eh :D
 
posted on July 29, 2014 by sgdi

There once was a tower of hats Precariously balanced by gnats One gnat moved away The tower did sway Collapsing and then that was that

 
I pronounce eh like in meh
or in bokeh
 
êèéëh
 
@kwak since I'm a hippo my answer to that would be biased.
or like the french è
 
7:58 PM
@GeorgeCapote yes, like that
Эллен -> Ellen
 
merguez -> merg/è/z
air-> èrr
 
my dad made me learn cyrillic letters, and I purposely forgot everything my dad taught me during my hating my dad phase.
 
well done
 
dunno if that answers anything…
but we're tough.
 
that just prove hippo's teeth are tougher than croco's skin, the opposite is true also I think
 
8:02 PM
chomps at the air
 
!!define scutes
ohhh KotFix leaved :( ?
 
leafed. like a tree.
 
Crocos have scutes
 
yeah well hippos have giant butts.
 
Hippos have just thick skin
 
8:05 PM
we also can run much, much faster.
 
Crocos can run
 
we can run at 30km/h
 
that weight and speed combined would smush any croc
 
@GeorgeCapote but scutes beat your fat ass skin, like diamond beats iron
 
8:10 PM
turns around really fast and hits you with hind quarters
 
I'm a croc now, a giant and centenary one
and I can chew any big marchmallow hipster
 
are you actually a crocodile enthusiast or just want to mess with me?
because I'm a hippo enthusiast and hippos are much better.
I've done so much unit testing today that the word assert looks like a combination of ass and the name Bert.
and I'm going nuts too, additionally to that.
 
8:51 PM
wow, my answer got inundated and lost in a pack of very un-answers very quickly.
hmm… and now people deleted them.
 
@RegDwigнt Looks like they’re whining about you down in Aisle Huh — unjustly so IM!HO, but so it goes.
No, I had not read your question before the edit but I have now. I think @RegDwight has completely altered the nature of your question. My answer is therefore different. The verb 'to grow up' usually refers that long process over the years from childhood to adulthood. If it meant the 2nd sense (a glimpse of children acting like adults), you (one) would probably say 'acting grown up' or 'looking grown up'. But the verb implies a passage of time. — Mynamite 29 mins ago
 
So who is this medica person? She's been here for 7 months; whats the problem now?
 
Is there a problem now?
I don't think there's a problem now
 
If people in here are having fights about it, I would consider it a problem. :P
Long time no see Matt
 
9:32 PM
It has been a while.
 
some guy is unleashing a crazy fit on me, and claims to have "reported me to the moderators"
is this something I should be concerned about?
 
sighs
he claims I silently downvoted him… but the only reason he knows it was me and was able to downvote me out of anger is because I told him my reasoning. I feel like I'm in a storm of mental.
 
"RESPECT MUH AUTHORITAH"
Is that what he is saying
 
nice characters 👍
I guess I shouldn't worry because I didn't do anything wrong.
 
9:40 PM
Ty. Although it gives people more trouble than its worth to ping me.
 
@SȱɳɨȼƮħeǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ
three keystrokes.
 
Mods look at flags raised on a case by case basis. If someone has raised a flag about something you've done but you've not done anything to worry about, don't worry
 
cool.
 
Unless, you did do something wrong >:)
 
9:44 PM
Good night!
 
well, apparently I'm horrible
 
@tchrist yeah sure thing I have completely changed his question. It was not in English and now it is. If I have altered its nature in the process, that is only further proof that it was completely incomprehensible to begin with.
Anyhoo, anyone involved is welcome to roll back, yet nobody involved has done so.
Meanwhile seeing how none other than Mr Fumble left a comment that's pretty much identical to what I would have commented myself, everything is in order and I can go to bed.
Toddles.
 
10:00 PM
guat nach
 
Hello.
 
hej
Do you have ^
 
11:05 PM
Brandnetels!
I think everyone does.
Do you?
 
I underestimated them today, was wearing shorts & sandals and had to clear 5m^2 of them. Decided to just eat the pain and kick them to fragments. Still have a funny feeling in my legs five hours after.
Feels like the calves are filled with beer.
 
Oww that was unwise.
@JohanLarsson Ice will probably help.
Nothing else helps except certain creams that you don't have at home.
 
I'll try to sleep it off
 
11:25 PM
Poor you!
You could put your legs in a cold bath.
 
@RegDwigнt I did say that I thought it was baseless whinery.
@JohanLarsson Is that for soup, cigars, or bongs?
 
@tchrist Surely you recognise the plant?
Soup you can make of it.
 
11:42 PM
Why try to "kick them to fragments"?
 
@Cerberus I knew it from Wisconsin. Stinging nettles don’t flourish in my own immediate vicinity, preferring the lusher montane biozone 2–4 hanging kilofeet above my own theoretically semi-arid foothills one. I don’t much care for its trichomes. But we’re having flooding again, so who knows what’s next.
Notice that the biozones are not symmetric across the Continental Divide.
 
You're lucky, then.
Brandnetels grow fast and everywhere.
 
I’d rather step in a nettle than a cactus.
 
But cacti don't grow fast, nor everywhere.
You're less lucky with your flooding...
What do they predict?
 
Up to three inches of rain.
 
11:49 PM
Ereyesterday's torrents caused €2 million in damages here.
I think we had 150mm in some places in a single day.
That should be...how many inches?
7?
 
It isn’t clear what that will translate to here at the foot of that right-hand rise in the picture above.
 
Naturally.
Flat land is safe, in some ways.
 
All I know is that it isn’t the three inches that fall on me that is the problem, but the stuff that falls between me and the Divide.
@Cerberus I’m sure you call it seven inches, but I call it six. Matter of perspective.
 
I was just guessing.
Too lazy to calculate.
 
Now why would you do that?
Bah.
 
11:52 PM
It's faster and easier.
 
AKA rounding error
 
How many times does 25 fit into 100?
If you can’t do that sort of arithmetic stone drunk, then I have some lovely beachfront property I’d like to sell you.
 
That's not the same calculation.
And there was no need for precision.
 
1.5 is a sesquisomething.
You get 4 something per 100.
So 6 per 150.
Trivial to the point of non-thinking.
 
@tchrist I have only tried the soup.
@skullpatrol I needed to remove them and could only think of better ways that would take more time :)
 
11:58 PM
icic
 

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