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8:03 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, and don't tell me about hostile, toxic school systems. I went to Catholic school for 12 years, including an all-male prep school where we were brutally beaten for minor infractions. I could tell you true stories that would shrivel the hairs off your arse.
 
@Cerberus read up on "Othering"
@Robusto That's one kind of hostile and toxic, yes. But just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean that other people aren't also having bad experiences. Just because women, LGBT people, etc, aren't being literally beaten in schools now doesn't mean their situation is optimal either.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 There's a big gap between sub-optimal and what I went through.
 
@Robusto That's completely true. And also completely irrelevant.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Irrelevant to you, maybe. Not to me.
And if the only people who deserve sympathy are LGBTQ, well, that is a weird definition of inclusion.
 
@Robusto No, irrelevant to women and minorities in schools today who are facing institutionalized (though often subtle) discrimination and harassment.
@Robusto That is not what I'm saying. When did this conversation become about everyone? We started with a discussion on gender.
 
8:08 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And of course they are the only ones having problems.
 
@Robusto Again, the existence of other problems has nothing to do with this.
 
I should just take the tack that what you're saying is irrelevant.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's a short answer.
 
Anyway, this is boring. I don't discriminate against anybody, and I don't feel I have any special mission to espouse anyone's special cause. Life is what you make of it.
 
@Robusto It's a total non-sequitur to claim that your abuse at the hands of a teacher has anything whatsoever to do with sexism in schools, the workplace, etc. Why does it matter? You're talking about a different problem. A real problem? yes. But a different one.
 
8:12 PM
Orwell.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So the only things we can talk about are things you want to talk about? OK, I didn't realize that.
 
Euphemism Treadmill.
 
There was a 20-car pileup on the highway near where I live. Some people were killed. Is that relevant? No. Some students were shot in a school in the US. Is that relevant? No. Are those problems? yes.
@Robusto Dude. You brought up the gender language thing.
 
Dude?
 
@Cerberus Whatever. Orwell is a god, he was never wrong or hyperbolic, and any change must perforce lead to the worst possible extreme you can imagine along the road to that change.
 
8:14 PM
I haven't heard any reason why a choice between man/woman/other should be a problem.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And you're the one who brought up the whole women suffering at the hands of male oppressors thing. Which is largely irrelevant to the language thing. You seem to be conflating things that aren't related.
 
@Robusto I can explain its relevance but I guess you stopped listening a while back so whatever. I'm sorry I tried to help you understand things.
 
@Rigor Hello, person.
 
Get back on your high horses and mock what you don't understand.
 
Hi pal @Cerberus :-)
If you're gonna ride, don't ride the white horse :D
If you're gonna mock, don't mock raider nation.
 
8:18 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't understand it because I have heard only vague, indirect things.
But no matter.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Don't be patronizing.
You're obviously the only one in chat who has the "correct line" in this. So I will just have to be content to be wrong and a monster.
This makes me sad that I am a I identify as a liberal. Because PC liberals have no fucking sense of humor and everyone has to think the way they do.
 
8:39 PM
@Cerberus I took a dump on the Euphemism Treadmill.
 
It won't like that.
 
@Mitch That's not very clever now, is it? It'll just end up on the floor.
 
And it should prefer if you said "I evacuated downwards upon".
 
@Cerberus No. No he doesn't. It's all about God and me.
> [Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.[a] 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.](biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10:29-31)
 
!!!
 
8:43 PM
@terdon Shit.
 
Ah, now you see the problem.
Apropos of nothing, have you all heard of Gin Wigmore? I'm quite impressed by the few things I've heard. For example:
 
@terdon That has nothing to do with poop, treadmills or sparrows.
@terdon People are so shittest
 
@Mitch Precisely. I said "apropos of nothing".
 
I thought by nothing you meant evacuation.
 
@terdon The bible quote was intended to show that God even cares how much a sparrow costs (1/2 cent!) so if he cares about that he certainly cares about nothing at all.
@Cerberus depends on where you're looking. the evacuated space is hopefuly empty if everything 'works' right.
 
8:47 PM
@Mitch Are you sure that's from the bible? It sounds like the kind of thing Santa would do.
 
:D
 
@terdon I like it.
 
That was a euphemism for either constipation or diarrhea. Either one is a tragedy, both sounds like absentmindedness.
 
@Mitch *she
 
@Cerberus There's something very special about her voice.
@Mitch More like terminal indecision.
 
8:49 PM
@terdon They didn't say if God knew if the sparrow had been good for goodness sake, or was actually sincere.
 
@Mitch Is there still space after you evacuate?
 
@Cerberus he, shmee, all the good pictures show God as a dude. It's Zeus and Hera, not Zeus and Hima.
@terdon Brings a new light to "I can't go on, I'll go on!"
 
@terdon Like a black woman?
 
@Mitch Hmm, the little colon that could?
 
@Cerberus Philosophy is literally horse shit!
 
8:51 PM
@Mitch Heh tell that to the homophobes.
 
@Cerberus No, though yes, there is that, it cracks in a beautiful way.
 
@Mitch In a way.
 
@terdon I was thinking "I'm a little teapot"
 
Oh yeah? Where's your spout then?
Though you have, in all fairness, been known to spout.
 
Spout what?
 
8:55 PM
"Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."
how much is many? I need change for the meter.
 
@Mitch I bet that's what you say to all the boys.
 
9:37 PM
@terdon Dude...that's a Jesus quote
The next line after the quote above
Apropos of something, going through the review queue, there's a whole bunch of dumb questions and answers.
 
10:29 PM
@Mitch It's true, too. Cost of raw materials -- you can make nearly 3000 sparrows using the red clay you would otherwise fashion into a person.
 
@terdon He doesn't spout, he barks.
 
10:39 PM
Mecca in 1887.
Mecca now.
 
user116848
Yeah it has changed a lot.
 
user116848
Been there many times :)
 
user116848
And hi!
 
Many, even?
And hi!
 
user116848
So... I just happened to be here.
 
10:43 PM
Hi pal :-)
 
Looks like the Saudis have destroyed most of their cultural heritage.
 
user116848
@Cerberus Sorry, even?
 
user116848
@Rigor Hello!
 
You have not just been to Mecca, but you have even been there many times.
 
user116848
@Cerberus Like four times.
 
10:45 PM
@Robusto Waste of ten minutes.
 
user116848
Hi @MετάEd.
 
@MετάEd Agreed.
 
@Robusto Response to the last question was "Access denied."
 
Mine just started over after time ran out.
 
The football player would have said f*** it long before. Football player wins.
 
10:46 PM
Football player wouldn't have taken that sorry thing in the first place.
 
@Arrowfar Hi.
 
@Arrowfar Impressive.
Is it hard to get there?
 
user116848
@Cerberus Have you heard about the recent crane accident there?
 
Certainly.
Pretty horrific.
 
user116848
@Cerberus No, for muslims it is kinda easy. And I'm a Sunni muslim so I feel very comfortable there overall.
 
10:48 PM
OK I see.
Do many people from Iran go there?
 
user116848
Yes, they do of course.
 
Do they forbid anyone to go there?
 
user116848
Yeah they do. You have to be a muslim to enter Mecca.
 
I see.
 
Sir Richard Francis Burton KCMG FRGS (19 March 1821 – 20 October 1890) was a British explorer, geographer, translator, writer, soldier, orientalist, cartographer, ethnologist, spy, linguist, poet, fencer, and diplomat. He was known for his travels and explorations within Asia, Africa and the Americas, as well as his extraordinary knowledge of languages and cultures. According to one count, he spoke 29 European, Asian and African languages. Burton's best-known achievements include a well-documented journey to Mecca, in disguise at a time when Europeans were forbidden access on pain of death; an...
There's one who wasn't.
 
10:53 PM
In disguise.
 
Still . . .
 
user116848
@Robusto Yeah interesting.
 
user116848
And hi Rob.
 
Salaam aleichem.
 
user116848
:)
 
10:57 PM
:Ö:
 
@Robusto Arf
 
 
@Arrowfar That's pretty fortunate. Do people go just at one time of the year or can you do the Hajj any time?
 
user116848
@Cerberus Yeah they are just making high rise buildings there.
 
user116848
@Mitch No, Hajj is only once a year. You can do Umrah anytime you want. I haven't performed Hajj though.
 
user116848
11:10 PM
Also Hajj is pretty tough. In that there is a lot to do.
 
Wait...what is Umrah?
 
user116848
The Umrah (Arabic: عمرة‎) is a pilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi Arabia, performed by Muslims that can be undertaken at any time of the year, in contrast to the Hajj. In Arabic, Umrah means "to visit a populated place". In the Sharia, Umrah means to perform Tawaf round the Kaaba and Sa'i between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah, after assuming Ihram (a sacred state), either from a Miqat like Zu 'l-Hulafa, Juhfa, Qarnu 'l-Manāzil, Yalamlam, Zāt-i-'Irq, Ibrahīm Mursīa, or a place in Hill. It is sometimes called the 'minor pilgrimage' or 'lesser pilgrimage', the Hajj being the 'major' pilgrimage and which is compulsory...
 
user116848
Umrah is pretty easy compared to Hajj.
 
user116848
The Hajj (/hædʒ/; Arabic: حج‎ Ḥaǧǧ "pilgrimage") is an annual Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca, and a mandatory religious duty for Muslims that must be carried out at least once in their lifetime by all adult male Muslims who are physically and financially capable of undertaking the journey, and can support their family during their absence. It is one of the five pillars of Islam, alongside Shahadah, Salat, Zakat, and Sawm. The gathering during Hajj is considered the largest annual gathering of people in the world. The state of being physically and financially capable of performing the Hajj is called...
 
@terdon Back in my presenescent salad days. Those brain cells are lost beyond the event horizon of shrinking prefrontal lobes.
 
11:13 PM
@Arrowfar It seems like if you're in Mecca you might as well go all out. Oh but if you're there at the wrong time of year I guess.
 
@Arrowfar Looks like a lot of trouble either way.
 
@tchrist I've learned good news re age...at least for scriabble players.
 
user116848
@Robusto Yeah, heh.
 
> Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause. —Sir Richard Francis Burton
 
Is there such a thing as a "born again" Muslim? @Arrowfar
 
user116848
11:16 PM
@Mitch Yeah wrong time there is summers. It is crazy hot there if the hotel is not nearby. Although in the mosque they have air conditioners.
 
user image
2
 
@Mitch That graph leaves out irascibility. My best years are still before me.
 
user116848
@Rigor Yeah of course. I believe in that.
 
The kids can do their number list memorization.
@Robusto No I think you're at your peak.
Snap!
 
@Mitch I have not yet begun to irasce.
 
11:18 PM
@Robusto Fortunately it leaves out sex also.
 
@Arrowfar did you stay in town or in those rows and rows of tents?
 
But I still plan to be a dirty old man.
 
@Robusto I rass a bull.
Then abominable.
it was noble.
 
@Mitch Followed by noble.
Damn.
 
@MετάEd which reminds me, what is the best age for chess?
@MετάEd ha ha jinx!
 
11:20 PM
@Mitch The age you discover Go. Earlier the better.
 
user116848
@Mitch No, those rows of tents are only open during Hajj season. To perform Umrah people just stay in the hotels. There are lots of them.
 
@MετάEd like for fencing it is supposed to be around 50.
 
@MετάEd Actually, to be quite honest, the subsidence of that is not so bad. You look back on it, if you've had your share, as an ass-ton (literally, I guess) of effort spent for a rather brief payoff, out of all proportion to the time spent bringing it about.
Like Jack Nicholson says in The Departed: "And I don't need pussy anymore, either. But I like it." That pretty much sums it up.
 
@Robusto A friend used to say there is nothing so overrated as good sex and nothing so underrated as a good crap.
 
@Arrowfar what do people eat there? Or rather, what did they used to eat a hundred years ago, because the pictures look ike mostly rock.
@Robusto Are you guys still talking about sex? We've all moved on to coal mining.
 
11:23 PM
Go (simplified Chinese: 围棋; traditional Chinese: 圍棋; pinyin: wéiqí, Japanese: 囲碁 igo, literal meaning: "encircling game", Korean: 바둑 baduk) is a board game involving two players, that originated in ancient China more than 2,500 years ago. It was considered one of the four essential arts of a cultured Chinese scholar in antiquity. The earliest written reference to the game is generally recognized as the historical annal Zuo Zhuan (c. 4th century BC). There is significant strategy involved in the game, and the number of possible games is vast (10761 compared, for example, to the estimated 101...
 
@Mitch Coal mining for sex? How does that work, exactly.
 
@Robusto Leads to Coalminers Daughter.
 
@MετάEd another friend used to say that there's nothing as good as good kimchi, and nothing as bad as bad kimchi.
 
@Mitch Same thing.
 
@MετάEd Black Young Disease?
 
11:24 PM
@MετάEd ewww....
 
@Mitch Evidently you've never tasted good kimchi.
@Robusto Canary Syndrome.
 
@MετάEd how come only two people can play regular checkers but 6 people can play chinese checkers? I'm asking for a friend
 
Dwindling Seam.
 
user116848
@Mitch Yeah there is nothing there except dust and rocks. But the place itself is considered holy and spiritual. These days we get all kinds of food there, you name it. But except pork, alcohol and other stuff that are not allowed for muslims. In old times people used to live a very simple life there I hear so not much variety in old times I reckon.
 
@Mitch I need my own column in the NYT where I can answer imponderables like that.
Axe Tip Wilt.
 
11:27 PM
Four people can play chess. It's called kriegsspiel, and it's a lot of fun.
 
Cydroharboniosis.
@Robusto Yikes.
I wonder if people play four-way Go.
 
How it works is you have two boards on the table. Teams are two players each on one side. One team member plays white, the other black. And here's the trick. When you capture a piece it doesn't just go off the board, it goes to your teammate, who gets to place it wherever he wants. Loads of fun, if you like chess.
 
There are many variations of the simple rules of Go. Some are ancient digressions, while other are modern deviations. They are often side events at tournaments, for example, the U.S. Go Congress holds a "Crazy Go" event every year. == National variants == The difficulty in defining the rules of Go has led to the creation of many subtly different rulesets. They vary in areas like scoring method, ko, suicide, handicap placement, and how neutral points are dealt with at the end. These differences are usually small enough to maintain the character and strategy of the game, and are typically n...
 
Sounds never ending @Robusto :-/
 
Hmm wonder why I get image not found.
 
11:30 PM
@Rigor No, it actually goes pretty fast. When you can place a captured queen right next to the opponent's king, well . . .
 
Have you tried atomic chess?
 
@Robusto THere's a new sport MMC, mixed martial chess. You can use moves from go, chess, parcheesi, risk, and twister.
@MετάEd "Ancient digressions" - sounds like they started talking about the huns.
 
There's also chess between boxing rounds.
 
or running around the house after every move.
too much room for cheating though.
 
:D
 
11:38 PM
The weirdest amalgam is the biathlon. X-country skiing and then you shoot a rifle. Imagine how many other sports would benefit from firearms practice. Like platform diving, synchronized swimming . . .
 
user116848
@Cerberus So, "brain drain" is a pretty interesting topic. You must have heard about it. I think it is affecting all the developing countries including Pakistan. No wonder we are lacking so far behind.
 
user116848
Human capital flight, sometimes called brain drain, refers to the emigration of intelligent, well-educated individuals for better pay or conditions, causing their places of origin to lose skilled people, or "brains." Typically, such emigrating individuals have learned English and have moved to the United Kingdom, the United States or some other English-speaking country. Brain drain is common in developing nations, particularly in former African colonies of the United Kingdom, the island nations of the Caribbean, and in centralized economies such as the former East Germany and the Soviet Union....
 
user116848
Off topic, but I was reading about it so I shared.
 
user116848
> The ever-increasing Pakistani diaspora through the migration of skilled labour from Pakistan to industrialized nations in Europe, North America and the oil-rich Middle East has contributed to a professional brain drain in the country. In recent years, the uncertain political situation and better job opportunities abroad have caused many Pakistanis to seek prospective gains outside the country.
 
@Arrowfar *lagging
 
user116848
11:48 PM
Ah, yes. Thanks!
 
user116848
:)
 
So embarrassing:
 
Nice humble-brag.
 

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