English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Although in dialogue: "Unhand me!" said Tom.

That's pretty normal.

Right!

That may very well be another remnant.

But we would never say "A fine lunch ate we." Unless we were trying to be funny.

Or archaic.

12:15 AM

Still, "For this will Dido tye ye full of knots" is archaic but maybe due more, again, to iambic pentameter.

For this will Di-do tye ye full of knots.

And somehow I suspect recent Vampire fan fiction might say, "Unhand me", Tom said.

@Robusto Well, one would assume only constructions that are legitimate anyway are used metri causa.

Not necessarily. Don't forget about poetic license.

@Cerberus What is weird about it? “For this will Dido tie you full of knots. You shall no more offend the Carthage Queen.” Do you mean "will Dido" instead of "Dido will"? I think it is just because he pulled For this out in front for focus that it provokes the inversion. “Dido will tie full of knots because of this” changes the emphasis.

@Cerberus You can go either way with it. "Tom said" or "said Tom."

@Robusto Not necessarily.

12:18 AM

@tchrist He put it in that order because it fits more easily into IP.

@Robusto Yes, but I would expect said genre to use the uninverted order.

I’ll buy that for a shilling.

Oh, I thought tchrist was @Cerberus for a second.

@tchrist Yes, but that inversion is not possible in modern English, not normally.

@Robusto We don't look alike?

@Cerberus “Not possible in modern English” — really??

12:19 AM

In that design he put it more to fit / In his pentameter thou little shit

@Cerberus No. He eschews custom gravatarianism.

In this project will I put more of myself than ever before.

Not not possible.

The leading adverbial/prepositional phrase frequently triggers inversion.

@tchrist Hardly "modern" and "normal" at the same time.

The modern word order would be: "Dido will tie you into knots for this." Scansion sucks, but there it is.

@Robusto Tsk.

@Robusto He does indeed. So why confuse us?

He is coloured, I am white and black.

@Cerberus For this thou mutter imprecations dark / And never see the inkling of a spark

@Cerberus You were confused already. So confused that you sought my help, in fact.

12:23 AM

@Cerberus If you would have language to converse with homeless drunks with, then perhaps simpler fare is all you deserve. But don’t call it abnormal or premodern simply because unlettered brutes are less than prone to babble it through their vomit.

Thou wert confused already, little dog / Now run along and play in some foul bog

@Robusto Not mutterst?

@Robusto Differently confused.

@tchrist Whatever you call it, it is quite different from Dutch and German.

But it was perhaps not so different then.

Tonight we must in verses only speak / Absent that rule we cannot aught but shriek

@Robusto Where do you think I am??

@Cerberus I'm pacing myself.

@Cerberus In Amsterdam I thought—but marry, why / art thou so cheeky under darkened sky?

12:26 AM

@Robusto So a fairly foul bog!

That picture is not worth a thousand words / But fill that bog up with a thousand turds!

What do you think happens when you're below sea level and it rains all the time?

For this was I made: to lift my shining lamp of reason to every blind barking mutt who would children scare from alleys dark and forest cut.

If metric rule we cannot lower go / than Nederland, ho ho ho ho ho ho.

@Robusto Mary Sue! Mary Sue!

12:29 AM

@tchrist See you not the difference between English and Dutch?

@tchrist I shall not thee cajole a second time / This night must we declare ourselves in rhyme.

Pentameter, in point of fact, must we / Our couplets show the world for all to see.

Are you iambic? now I ask. I am! / An answer quickly seconded: iam!

Pentameter, a verb?

@Cerberus Why not a verb? It's English plain to see / We speak no Dutch, nor sail the Zuider Zee.

I will speak iambic, yes, and you / May speak youarebic. (If you do, I'll sue.)

The Zuiderzee has been closed off long ago and renamed the IJsselmeer, because it be no longer a zee but a meer now.

@Cerberus A sere zee into a mere meer?

12:38 AM

Feet of four‪ fare me well / And better broken ‪ in bitter ale.

I wax not poetic to-day.

@Robusto Hmm I didn't know sere.

@tchrist At least Rob is still comprehensible.

@Cerberus part of Flevoland, yeah?

@Cerberus He's going for alliterative OE with four stresses and a cesura instead of iambic pentameter.

@Robusto No, Flevoland is located in the IJsselmeer, consisting of part of its former floor.

@Cerberus A little alliteration no lad ever harmed.

Riddle me a rhyme that rings for ages.

@Robusto But...what does it mean?

12:44 AM

Words spoken and spent the bard spins his weave.

Swá sceal geong guma      góde gewyrcean
fromum feohgiftum      on fæder bearme

Lucky ge- is never stressed.

It means maybe | he waxes mad
Quite loony will he look | the lunatic

Thus glory endeth and gold fadeth,
on noise and clamours the night falleth.
Lift up your hearts, lords and maidens
for the song of sorrow that was sung of old.

Þá wæs Hróðgáre      herespéd gyfen
wíges weorðmynd      þæt him his winemágas
georne hýrdon      oðð þæt séo geogoð gewéox
magodriht micel·      him on mód bearn

12:56 AM

It’s really rough getting the required caesura past the SE busybodies.

They collapse whitespace.

One armed and mantled as ancient king
wild steed there rode than wind fleeter.
Spear upholding spiked with lightning
her hall he entered hailed her darkly.

I just use fixed font.

Sharp spit shaped he; as shining fire
the fat of Fáfnir there frothed and hissed.
To tongue he touched testing finger –
beasts’ cry he knew, and birds’ voices.

I’m using 8 U+2004 characters in a row.

THREE-PER-EM SPACE, aka thick space.

They haven’t yet cottoned to using Unicode white space properties, but they do snatch up regular space and non-breaking space alike. So U+2004 sneaks them by.

Fixed font is faster for me.

Faster for anybody.

But I have that sequence in my paste buffer.

So Command-V inserts it wherever I need.

All vowels alliterating with each other freely is something that only comes to make sense after spending some time with the meter.

I mean, it begins to feel right.

1:23 AM

> Boulder County and its engineering consultant, AECOM, will provide a presentation and collect feedback regarding permanent repairs to Lefthand Canyon Drive and James Canyon Drive at an open house on Wednesday. ... After the meeting, the county and AECOM will incorporate the public's comments into the final designs of permanent repairs to the two canyon roads. Repairs are anticipated to begin as early as 2015.

Those are repairs to the roads that were destroyed in the biblical floods we had here one year ago, back in September 2013.

So “Repairs are anticipated to begin as early as 2015.” is a bit vexing.

They have temporary fixes in place so you can, with patience, traverse them. But I’m talking about a one-lane road at most in some place, with some places having a coordinated stop-and-go light on either end but others not. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

So right now two-way traffic has to share one dirt lane where once were two paved lanes each with a generous bike lane.

1:43 AM

I hereby propose that we should hone our SE behavior to the day of the week: Mondays we upvote everyone and use smiley-face emoticons, Tuesdays we cast reopen votes and don’t downvote idiots who deserve it, Wednesdays we downvote everything we can and leave comments a-drip with snark, Thursdays we don’t do bupkis, Fridays we edit idiots’ postings into sense, Saturdays we run all the queues, and Sundays we nancy it up to the nines.

2:04 AM

@Cerberus For focussing videos, I'm now using ControlFocus.

My address bar is disabled and I don't believe I have anything else in my FF interface that will allow me to reliably take back focus, so instead of using your script (of which the presence of some parts I didn't understand), I have created a script to just click two times on the drop-down menu button on the side of the Youtube logo (which always remains on the screen) followed by a click on the middle-leftmost point of the screen to make sure the button doesn't remain selected.

This seems to work perfectly except that taking back focus is, currently, Youtube-only.

I am, however, using your Greasemonkey script which I find very useful. Though it might take some figuring out on my part on how to actually edit it for my use.

2:25 AM

My word, the OED is getting testy!

> helpmeet /ˈhɛlpmiːt/.

Etymology: A compound absurdly formed by taking the two words help meet in Gen. ii. 18, 20 (‘an help meet for him’, i.e. a help (help sb. 2) suitable for him) as one word.
Already in the 17th c. the Scripture phrase is found with the two words improperly hyphened; which led the way to the use of help-meet, helpmeet, without ‘for him’. But its recognition as a ‘word’ is chiefly of the 19th c.: it is unknown to Johnson, Todd, Richardson, and to Webster 1832. In the 17th c. they used more grammatically meet help, meet-help: cf. sweet heart, sweetheart.

I like that: “a compound absurdly formed”.

Why is there a message character limit if you can just bypass it using Shift+Enter?

@Alraxite Right, it only working on Youtube is very limited. And having to click somewhere on the page is not really safe...

I can help you if you want to edit my GM script.

Mini Metro. dinopoloclub.com/minimetro

@Cerberus Yes, I know. I will see if I can find or add something to my interface that'll bring back focus.

But it does work well.

@Cerberus Thanks, I will ask you when I'll need help.

@Cerberus I presume, that's a difficult-to-achieve score then.

@Alraxite The address bar is the only place that works for me. I have tried everything.

Can't you make the address bar tiny or something?

@Alraxite It took me an hour and a half or so.

Today is the first day I have played this game. It's easy to get into and quite fun.

2:40 AM

@Cerberus Hmm, OK. That's not good.

Perhaps your browser is different.

@Cerberus Well, it's unnecessary, since the address appears in the pentadactyl command line.

Mine is of course customised.

@Cerberus Well done!

Yes, maybe.

Still, you could call it tiny "anti-plugin click box" instead of "address bar".

2:41 AM

BTW, instead of the ClickPlace function, why didn't you simply use the ControlClick command?

@Cerberus Yes, haha.

@Alraxite So they don’t have to parse long ones for markup, of course.

@Cerberus BTW, I was meaning to ask you how you had such a thin status bar?

@tchrist Hmm, that sounds very vague to me... but whatever it means is probably the reason.

@Alraxite Autohotkey cannot identify most controls as such in Firefox.

And I also use it for more things than just the address bar. Like buttons. Sometimes buttons are more reliable than some other method.

@Cerberus Yes, but ControlClick can directly click on coordinates too. A control is optional.

Really??

2:46 AM

@Alraxite You never understand me. I suggest getting a pineapple like Cerb or Reg to translate tchristia into Alexa-speak for you.

Yes.

I didn't know that!

Does it actually work? Reliably?

I use ControlClick in my script to click on that dropdown menu button just by specifying its coordinates.

@Alraxite That is the add-on bar, but with the statusbar "widget" in it.

Or maybe it is not the standard status-bar "widget", but a "widget" from an add-on.

@Cerberus Hmm, do you know which addon it is from?

2:48 AM

@Alraxite So then it clicks without moving the mouse?

Mine is very big, I don't like it.

@Cerberus Yes.

Let me show you my script.

It is called "status text", the widget.

> SetTitleMatchMode RegEx
#ifWinActive \Q - YouTube [Plugin]\E$ ahk_class MozillaWindowClass
Capslock & e::
ControlGetFocus, FocusedWin, A
if FocusedWin= GeckoFPSandboxChildWindow1
{
ControlClick, X133 Y35, A,,,2, Pos
ControlClick, X8 Y330, A,,,, Pos
}
else
Send {Esc}
return

Capslock & Space::ControlFocus, GeckoFPSandboxChildWindow1, A

Note I use Caps+e for Escape, hence why I chose this mapping.

Let me check which add-on it might be from. But, again, it might be the default widget that is normally on the status bar.

@Cerberus Hmm, OK.

2:50 AM

@Alraxite I'll try it, just for fun. Maybe it's faster than my ClickPlace function.

@Cerberus Yes, sure!

Caps+Space focusses the Youtube video if it's on the screen.

Pressing escape (which is Caps+e for me) returns focus.

@Alraxite I think it is the default widget, try dragging the status text from your status bar onto your addon bar in "Customize" mode.

If not, it might be from Extended Statusbar: addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/extended-statusbar

@Cerberus Are you using Classic Theme Restorer?

I think so, yes.

@Cerberus Oh, I haven't seen this one before.

@Cerberus It comes with its own status bar. I use that one.

2:54 AM

But I've always had it this way: I only installed CThR when I was forced to switch to Australis.

@Cerberus Hmm, I don't exactly know what status text is, but that might be because I'm not using your status bar.

@Cerberus Your interface is very space efficient, I like it.

@Alraxite I don't think so? What do you see on your status bar when you enter Customize mode?

blushes Thank you.

@Cerberus Um, apart from what I already could see, the white space boxes.

What I mean to say is I don't know what you mean by "status text".

This is what I see in Customize mode.

No, I don't see anything like that.

I did remember seeing it when I used Statusbar-4-ever.

3:00 AM

@tchrist I don't think that is "of course". But it is probably true.

Hmm I remember that add-on.

I'll try using the Extended Statusbar addon that you suggested.

@Alraxite Yup I'm using that one!

BTW, does NoScript not block the Detect Embedded GM script?

Just looked at my addon list.

@Alraxite Well, Noscript will block all plugins anyway.

@Cerberus So, you've two status bar extensions?

@Cerberus Oh, that is true.

3:02 AM

Oh, many.

I have this white-to-grey background colour changer GM script that NoScript doesn't like.

Which is the reason I currently have it disabled.

@Cerberus But you have only Extended Statusbar running?

@Alraxite Ah. But it will work if you allow Javascript on the page?

Though, I did find a way around it.

It included converting it into an extension.

@Alraxite No, also the other one. And the Theme Restorer.

The only problem being that I sometimes need to disable it too. And the extension needed restarting.

3:04 AM

@Alraxite Hmm smart. Was that easy?

@Cerberus Is there such an option in NoScript? Many a times I have to click on "Allow all of this page" or something similar.

@Cerberus Yes, there's a nice website that does that.

@Alraxite Ah, yes, that makes it less useful. Why not use a userstyle?

@Alraxite Not sure what you mean.

@Alraxite Hmm that could be interesting.

@Cerberus Um, well, that's the only script I know that does that and I have zero knowledge on how to convert a script into a style if that's what you mean.

Maybe someone has created a userstyle that darkens the background in some way? You could search for it.

@Alraxite If you remember the URL or the name of that website, I would be grateful.

@Cerberus I don't think there was an option that said "Enable JS for this page". Most of the time I had to click on "Allow all of this page" to get that colour changing Gm script working.

3:07 AM

I have a GM script that I want enabled everywhere.

@Cerberus arantius.com/misc/greasemonkey/script-compiler.php

@Alraxite Isn't that the same thing? Not sure what you want to accomplish.

Thanks!

Also, try Scriptify.

No wait.

Yes, I did mean Scriptify.

addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/scriptify/…

That's a pity.

@Cerberus Oh, OK. I wanted to have it working without having other JS scripts on the page executing.

Perhaps that's not possible then.

@Cerberus Those are a lot of extensions.

@Alraxite Hmm I have converted the script and installed the extension, but I get error pop-ups and it doesn't work.

@Alraxite Ah okay, no, that is not possible.

@Cerberus I remember I did get mine working.

Which one is it, if you don't mind telling?

3:15 AM

Hmm. That didn't happen to me.

Have you tried Scriptify?

It is Enhanced Word Highlight, an essential script that I want to work on all pages. Now it only works on pages where I have allowed Javascript.

@Alraxite Will try it now...

Though Scriptify didn't create a working extension for scripty...

Arantius did, however.

The former created a restart-less extension while the latter didn't, though only one worked.

I'm afraid Scriptify doesn't work either.

No error messages this time, but it just doesn't do anything.

Oh. Sorry to hear that.

3:28 AM

I create the add-on, but it has no effect.

Arantius worked for my script though.

Oh, it's all right.

Neither works for me.

So I see you use ControlGetFocus.

I think I just pasted the whole script into the text box and clicked on Compile without changing anything else.

@Cerberus yes.

@Cerberus Also, just so you know, I've read that Tab Mix Plus is a resource hog.

Also Focus Regainer.

Oh, really?

It says right in its description.

3:30 AM

Perhaps I should disable it, then...

@Cerberus yes.

@Cerberus What do you need it for?

I don't remember.

Have used it for so long.

Haha.

OK.

You can try disabling it and see what changes.

That's why I don't like changing things. But I have disabled it, let's see what happens.

Oh, dear.

Now my tabs are a lot wider.

Oh.

3:33 AM

They don't fit on the bar any more.

Let me remedy that.

Why don't you use vertical tabs?

Have you tried this? addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/noverflow

Also this addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/faviconizetab

Ugh, I can't fix it in the about:config settings.

@Alraxite Tried that, interfered with some stuff.

Also this: addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/small-tabs

@Cerberus All Tabs Helper?

Tabs Kit 2nd Edition?

They did?

@Alraxite I have heard of that one. I used to be able to do that by a simple about:config setting. But perhaps I will have to use that. Install yet another extension hehe.

@Alraxite Have used that one. But I want automatic.

@Cerberus I think this one might be better than the rest: addons.mozilla.org/ru/firefox/addon/custom-tab-width

This is a 2014 article: techpp.com/2014/03/08/make-firefox-tabs-smaller

Looks promising.

I'm sure at least one of these will work for you.

3:42 AM

Haha yes.

This is a new window I opened.

I find vertical tabs very space efficient

Yes, but you can't fit as many in a row, right?

Most pages don't use a lot of the horizontal space

Or does it does two columns?

There's a scrollbar.

3:46 AM

@Alraxite Yes, that is why I wanted to use it.

The scrollbar doesn't appear until I fill it up.

(Also, that grey colour is due to the script I was talking about.)

Anyway, you should try the two that I suggested.

You can also try Tree Style Tabs but I found it a bit heavy on resources.

There's also Vertical Tabs, but I remember it losing all my open tabs if I was using it with Classic Theme Restorer.

Okay, I have installed Custom Tab Width.

OK.

It works, thanks.

Good

3:53 AM

The only thing is that it doesn't show close buttons on tabs.

Oh.

Perhaps you can try that article?

I can enable that with a userstyle, as one of the reviewers said, but then the buttons also appear on pinned tabs, which takes up a lot of space.

It gives a way of doing this without any extensions.

I scanned the article; it recommended Custom Tab Width.

I see.

3:55 AM

The other tips were less impressive.

Oh, well.

The userChrome.css one?

I can enable the close buttons on the fly with the userstyle I created.

So I can live with that.

@Alraxite Yes, well, using a userstyle is much easier.

Don't you use userstyles?

I currently don't have any enabled.

They are more powerful than you might think.

They probably are.

3:56 AM

Those work on all urls. I have a couple more that work only on some pages.

Actually, I think you can accomplish this with Tabs Kit 2nd Edition too.

@Cerberus I see.

I highly recommend "Display keyword field in Bookmark dialog".

OK, will try.

If you add a bookmark, you can immediately add a keyword. That is normally not possible.

Is possible with dactyl!

3:58 AM

Haha OK.

I type a then if I want to add a keyword, -k <the keyword I want>.

That's nice. If you're going to type a keyword anyway, you'll be using the keyboard.