This chat is dead.

over 9,000 hours later...

:D

yep

reality is a persistent illusion...

What is real? That is a very deep question...

the deepest

@Arrowfar My mental problems.

the deepest question

for those that do not believe in "God"

dunno

I do not think that those who believe in God will go to heaven and those who don't will go to hell. I think that is bullshit.

somethings are "unknowable"

what does it mean to "know"

yes

Philosophers try.

I believe that the bible and the koran is the perverted word of man, not the perfect word of God.

Believe in yourself.

Justin Bieber. Just believe.

For some people, belief is all they have, so they are willing to die for it.

Mariah Carey. When You Believe

For some people, religion is their only comfort, so they are willing to lie to themselves about what they believe.

some are "born again"

Some people will say that I have been possessed by the devil to say such things.

that's their opinion

I have a friend with some supernatural experiences.

I believe what he tells me about them is true.

that's your opinion

The more he tells me about the Christian God, the more I think that my belief is true. I do believe in the existence of this Christian God.

what happened to Buddha?

He died.

have you finished those books?

Is that what you mean?

Not yet.

Buddhism is still the religion closest to me.

how many are left?

4. I read 2.

are you enjoying them?

Sort of.

My friend tells me that his friend also has supernatural experiences.

do you believe him?

He says that there is this whole hierarchy of beings with God, angels and other beings in the supernatural world.

They are not mentioned in the bible, but he dreamt about them.

Again, this is in line with Buddhist cosmology, how there are many different realms of existence. Yes I believe him.

Buddhism has explained everything to me: science and other religions.

The Buddha spoke about the universe expanding and contracting, which is what scientists are studying only now.

It's time to sleep.

later

pal

Oooh nooo... can I delete the question? (just kidding :)

So, is that "I could agree more" intentional?

@Alraxite Haha it was a typo. I already corrected it.

@IceBoy Indeed.

It could have been a mockery of people who say "I could care less"...

Why did you delete that?

@IceBoy We can agree to disagree. We're adults. Kind of. Sometimes. Right??

no need to dwell on a typo

Oh, it doesn't matter.

correct

@Cerberus Because all newcomers go for the site with the plain domain of "English".

What is the main clause?

Just like people looking to solve a maths problem will go for the site with only "math" in it.

@Cerberus I thought you were saying that a name change won't make much of a difference and so, is not necessary?

That's right.

I don't know where newcomers go.

Well, I told you where they do.

A name change will reduce the number of basic questions on ELU.

The powers that be have said, and I quote: I want to be clear up front not to get your hopes up about actually having the name changed easily - you're going to have to work real hard to convince us.

excuse me? I'm the one giving up my free time to help you make this network more user friendly

@Cerberus Either way, you said that you don't see how it'll make a difference, so I told you how it can.

@IceBoy I guess she could have said it in a friendlier way.

indeed

@Alraxite Right. By just making the site harder to find in general...

@Cerberus Yes, because most people have a basic question to ask. And among them very few are experts who'll have questions for linguists, etymologists, etc.

And if experts go to ELL, they will soon discover ELU too.

Experts will also be less likely to find the site. Like everyone else.

I ain't no expert :D

@Cerberus But they will find ELL. They will stay there and eventually find ELU.

I'm sorry, I'm just not a believer.

Well, ELL is definitely harder to find.

@Cerberus And if any expert is actually looking for a site at their level of English, then they should know better that the first obvious hit for such a site on the internet will most probably be not for them.

But for the majority of internet users who will find it.

How about "English for Experts"?

Like, "englishforexperts.stackexchange.com"?

and English for Learners

Or "efe.stackexchange.com"?

English for Beginners?

now that^ will attract them :-)

@RegDwigнt I have come to the conclusion that I need professional help of a particular sort, and you are the person I most “know” who is likely to meet the requisite criteria. I need to learn far-more-than-everything-I-never-wanted-to-know about programmatic localization. I understand many of the linguistic hurdles (like needing to account for case in say Russian or German), but would like to talk to somebody who has actually l10n’ed a program, preferably using GNU gettext() beneath the sheets.

My current WTF is these damned frameworks. If it were just a simple fricking print() or printf(), I could handle it using Locale::TextDomain, but the damned frameworks are all declarative and in textfiles not codefiles, and they drive me nuts.

@tchrist do you mind if I abandon that question?

@IceBoy Are you Reg?

Or something?

Wait, you are talking about something else.

Aren’t you?

@IceBoy Please specify the question to abandon.

@tchrist the name change

If you mean the meta.ELU question about how to optimally rename ELU and ELL into something that would cause less trouble, then you could alter the title.

Rather than suggesting a particular name, you could solicit names that would help clarify the situation.

The topic merits discussion.

ok

Just because "English Overflow" is misliked does not mean that the topic does not bear exploration. It may simply lead to a different solution.

The trick is to be obvious to people who do not know English very well.

@tchrist When you enter hints mode, does the "load more messages" button at the top of this page highlight?

@Alraxite Are you talking about under Pentadactyl?

@tchrist yes.

No one in Root access uses it, and you're the only one I know who does.

I am just-right-now as we speak currently running Safari from the box, not Firefox with Pentadactyl. I could fire it up and check, though.

Oh.

@tchrist There's also one more glitch that I encountered that you may know of. Whenever you type your message and hit enter, the cursor shifts one line down. Do you remember that happening when you were using it?

Not in particular, although I think the last time I used it was like three weeks ago.

Hmm, OK.

I was under the impression that you could do everything without the mouse.

Anyway, I have fixed the one-line-shifting down problem.

I just made a site-specific remap of <CR> to <CR><BS>

@IceBoy I’m betting that they won’t entertain some usefully descriptive albeit intentionally abstruse oppositional pair such as English for Simpletons versus say Songs for the Philologists, for example.

@Alraxite eep

It erases the new line which is added along with sending the message whenever I press enter.

And I can still enter new lines by using Shift+Enter.

Sorry, the Lit-v-Lang meta.ELU post provoked ancient memories.

@Alraxite One does what one must.

Why not have a Latin title for the "expert" site?

And it is only for chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/*

Only for educated people.

So it works well.

Or perhaps Old English.

I think "English" uses Latin letters.

Anything to deter the plebs.

@tchrist We could call it Litterae Anglicae.

Hwæt would probably scare them off.

Anyone who doesn't know Latin isn't educated enough to be able to understand the history and culture that carry the English language.

But that is not going to make them happy.

Anything to reduce the number of visitors to the site to an absolute minimum.

Remember: there is no road that leads to fruition but that should run through the happification of the Powers.

Indeed.

@Cerberus I think you need to think a bit more about what you’ve just said from the perspective of a for-profit organization.

And luckily they cannot be appeased in this matter.

@tchrist Irony.

> "God is an iron," I said. "Did you know that?" I turned to look at her and she was staring. She laughed experimentally, stopped when I failed to join in. "And I'm a pair of pants with a hole scorched through the ass?" "If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron."

amazon.com/God-Is-Iron-Other-Stories/dp/1410401154

In vain I keep searching for a definition for niron.

I wonder what sort of “convincing” Merced Suya has requested and required of us.

@Arrowfar I think he's being sarcastic.

Sardon the Mage.

@Arrowfar That was irony.

@tchrist How does God commit irony?

And is someone who commits depravity a depravit?

Adultery, an adulter?

Well, part of the fun that you have to read carefully to know.

When someone says something that obviously cannot be meant seriously, it must be ironic.

That's funny

Throwing stones in glass houses.

Someone who names himself God must think himself Very Important. He must care primarily about himself...

SO has four users named GOD.

I’m moderately surprised those have not been flagged for having offended the offendable.

It also has lovely users named Godwhacked (not Gobsmacked) and Godwin.

Correction, So has five users named God, plus many with god as part of their names.

There is also ProudAtheist.

There’s an iGod.

I think the gods must be crazy.

My godness but some of those names are going to provoke the wrath of someone or other, with other currently being the leading candidate.

There are 40 pages of them. I won’t point them out, because that would just be ugly.

I was hoping I would be able to successfully incorporate the SE Chat Modifications script in conjunction with my current browser set-up.

So, I've resorted to the Chat Helper.

Now typing :<Caps-k><message here> I can reply to the last written message. But I can only do that.

I can also edit. Though pressing Esc doesn't return me to the chatbox.

But it is better than leaving you in edit mode and simply focusing the whole page.

It also entails one other minor issue. But overall, it works.

Why can't you simply use the script as normal?

@Cerberus Because Pentadactyl has its own key mappings.

I don't know, but maybe if I knew Javascript I could fix it.

I have sort of built a temporary solution but it's not perfect.

So I've resorted to Helper.

If I press Ctrl-Caps-j (=Ctrl-Up) then reply I need to press R.

But that just reloads the page.

Well, actually

I could make <Left> into a pass-through key (i.e. dactyl won't handle it but pass it to FireFox) for this site only.

Then, I will need to press Ctrl-Caps-j multiple times and then press Caps-l

Alternatively, I can also make <Up> and <Down> be pass-through and then I will only need to press Ctrl-Caps-j and then Caps-j and Caps-k to go to the relevant message.

@Alraxite Who or what is that?

(Note: In SE Chat Modifications, pressing left works the same as pressing R unless it's your own message in which case it edits it. I didn't sort of think about that earlier)

Pressing "let"?

@Cerberus It's a Firefox extension. It's a fork of Vimperator.

Oh.

@Cerberus "Left". Fixed.

Ah.

Using it, you can browse without moving your hands off the keyboard.

I am apparently using three scripts for SE chat.

Which are?

Other than Modifications and Helper

SE Modifications is useful to me in some respects.

/load loads more messsages.

And I can't seem to press the load more messages button using dactyl.

Also, I think there are other things I haven't looked into.

SE Chat Easy Input Tools

No idea what it does, though.

In SE Chat Modifications, you can probably change the keycodes if they conflict with your other extensions.

38 is the Up key, I think.

@tchrist Doesn't the LitLang thing reduce to descriptivism/prescriptivism?

You can look up key codes and edit the script, test it.

I think I can perhaps. But I know nothing about JS.

Which keys are conflicting for you? You can look up what their key codes are and change them in the script.

I can test it for you if I know which keys you want to change into something else.

Oh.

@Cerberus Actually I can sort of accomplish that with Pentadactyl too.

I can map any unused combination to the one in the script.

Okay.

So, I could map Ctrl-j to press Ctrl-<Up>

So then there is no problem.

And Ctrl-k to Ctrl-<Down> and Ctrl-r to simply sending r.

All of these Ctrl combinations are unused by dactyl.

But for other functions I'll need to find other unused combinations.

And I don't think there are many simple unused combinations in Pentadactyl. I will be creating my own for general use too.

I mean, for replying I could do what I just said.

But :<Caps-k> is just as easy.

And I would argue, simpler.

I wanted to be able to use all SE Chat's functions.

Including delete, quoting, etc.

And that'll all require unused combinations.

So why do you need to use so many hotkeys with Pentadactyl?

Pentadactyl comes with its own hotkeys. There is room for unused combinations. But not so many.

At least, for combinations with only one modifier.

If I did implement it, it'll take about half of those unused Ctrl combinations.

Only for one specific website.

A better solutions would be to turn R into a pass-through key whenever I use Ctrl-Up to select a message.

But that requires JS.

But, the current set up works for me well. If I only need to edit and reply, I can do that easily.

To edit, I use Caps-j to send <Up> to my computer (this I've implemented through AHK).

Okay.

Using a touchpad is more annoying that using a mouse.

Which is why I'm implementing ways to get things done using the keyboard.

What I like most is not switching between input devices.

Yes.

So I use hotkeys when I'm busy typing.

I use mouse gestures when I'm busy using the mouse.

Touch pads suck. Why not use a mouse?

Well I could attach a mouse.

But I move my laptop sometimes.

Quite a few times actually.

Get a wireless mouse.

That too.

Or get a desktop.

But they will only work on a flat surface.

@Cerberus That's my XP machine.

It is better for your body if you work sitting at a regular desk.

Yes, I know. But I get tired sitting. So I change places.

Most people I know who use laptops mostly use them sitting at the same table.

And occasionally in bed.

But only for casual use.

I also have a dedicated table! I just at least move once per day to somewhere else when I get tied of being at one place for a long time

I see.

Anyway, you can do most stuff with the keyboard anyway if you have the right tools.

It would seem more convenient to get over it and remain at the same place rather than suffer the inconvenience of lacking a mouse.

And I haven't even started about using a decent keyboard and a large screen.

Well, I do agree. But even if I had a mouse, I would try to implement keyboard methods.

It's just more convenient.

And can be done.

I do need the mouse sometimes.

But not that many times now.

I find the mouse very convenient.

Sometimes snobbery leads people away from the mouse and towards the keyboard...

It is, but if you knew their keyboard shortcuts, you won't need it.

And no that's not snobbery.

It's convenient in that you don't need to move you hand again and again.

It's not about the mouse. It's about switching input tools, as you said.

And the mouse can't do everything.