English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

4:02 PM

@tchrist Funny, I guess I just had a brain cramp. Your article reference said Windsor and I read it as Wolcott. Weird.

tchrist

Adam, the ur-gent.

0

Q: Can I really see who closevoted BEFORE a question is closed?

According to this comment... anyone who has access to the database of this website can see who has closevoted Is this true? If so, can anyone post a "template" query showing how to do it? My initial thought was that since this information isn't normally made public until after a question...

discussion

english.stackexchange.com/review/close/history

@skullpatrol Not at all.

16

A: Is “Ur-moment” a normal English expression?

Arguably, no, Ur-moment is not a “normal” English expression for most people. However, it really depends on the company you keep whether it is normal or not. That’s because ur- is indeed a reasonably productive prefix meaning the original version of something in literary and academic register...

skullpatrol

@tchrist :D

@Robusto Surprisingly, the best thing for a brain cramp is the same as what helps a muscle cramp; that is to have a good stretch.

tchrist

Let that be my final update, for après moi, le déluge. And no @RegDwigнt, I still haven’t forgotten not to include cuneiform drivel.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist So the thing to do is not use the Review queue.

tchrist

I continue to marvel at how many self-described “well-educated” native speakers are unfamiliar with literary and academic registers, let alone music. What gentleman knows no music? What would Thomas Jefferson say? What would Aristotle say?

Johan Larsson

4:14 PM

My xpath is not very good

tchrist

@AndrewLeach That’s one way, yes. Another way is not to peak and let that influence you.

Robusto

@tchrist Aristotle famously said, "Every man should play the flute—but not too well."

2

tchrist

@AndrewLeach If you have no urtexts amongst your musical scores, I should be very much surprised. I’m pretty sure that I have choral scores marked that way, but I am dead certain I have piano scores so marked.

@Robusto Modulo gymnasts and other assorted catamiti.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Breitkopf & Hartel scores are generally marked Urtext. I have Handel's Dixit Dominus. I don't know how accurate the edition actually is.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Ah, so you know about that scam. Good.

Robusto

4:21 PM

I favor Edition Peters myself.

tchrist

Well, yes.

Oyez oyez! Have we a saxophone in the house?

0

Q: Saxon genitive to identify algorithms, methods, techniques, theorems,

When identifying an algorithm or theorem, which of these two sentences is preferred, Seifert's algorithm or Seifert algorithm? Does it have to do with the "prestige" of the algorithm/theorem? I mean that we conventionally say Newton-Raphson method and not Newton-Raphson's method, but it seems to ...

saxon-genitive

Robusto

Saxon genitals? Whoa!

tchrist

Painted blue.

Wait, that’d be the Keltoi.

Check your embrasure.

@KitFox That’s a huge whole lot of supporting evidence towards furthering the ᴇxᴛᴇʀᴍɪɴᴀᴛᴇ﹗ ᴇxᴛᴇʀᴍɪɴᴀᴛᴇ﹗ hue and cry.

Mitch

@skullpatrol I just pulled my brain.

skullpatrol

@Mitch sleep it off

Mitch

4:33 PM

@skullpatrol Oops, it came off all by itself. Now I can't get it back on. What do I do now?

skullpatrol

donate it to science :-)

Mitch

donated

Argh...that was the Good Will container. I can't get past the ... that drop box door.

Robusto

Since it is ultimately a stylistic issue, what other way would people expect you to do it than "your" way? — Robusto 57 secs ago

skullpatrol

she blinded me with science

:-O 1982!

tchrist

The OED attests these color words involving “brown”: brown-green, brown-haired, brownish, brownish-black, brownish-crimson, brownish-green, brownish-grey, brownish-red, brownish-white, brownish-yellow, brown-red, browny-green, golden-brown, light-brown, mid-brown, nut-brown, orange-brown, orangey-brown, purplish-brown, reddish-brown, ruddy-brown, yellow-brown, yellowish-brown. — tchrist 56 secs ago

I’m sorry that those aren’t sorted by HSV, but it doesn’t provide those.

Robusto

4:42 PM

Yes, well, use mentions are not rules per se.

They're often just a reflection of stylistic choices.

tchrist

> Her hair was of a pleasing light brown color, perhaps even golden.

> Her hair was of a pleasing light-brown color, perhaps even golden-brown.

Robusto

We don't need an essay. You're making a Montaigne out of a molehill. ^_^

tchrist

I don’t know. I do know that the modern, too-many-hyphens look looks like it should come with a Morse decoder ring.

kwak

poopy-brown

tchrist

@kwak That’s normally spelt shit-ass brown in North America.

kwak

4:46 PM

eheh

can it be shit-somethingelsethanass ?

tchrist

Oh my Lord!

@kwak You. Would. Not. Believe. It.

kwak

I've always assumed shit came from a particular ass

Robusto

@tchrist How about a ROT-13 decoder ring?

kwak

But nothing is created, nothing is deleted, everything is tranformed

tchrist

> × shit → sheet
shit [int.]
shit [n.]
shit [v.]
† shit-abed ← shit
× shitan → Shaitan
› shit-ass, -bag, -breeches, -face, -head, -heel, -pot ← shit
shit-breech ← shit
› shit-breeched ← shit
shit-eating [adj.]
shit-eating [n.]
shite-hawk [n.]
shitepoke [n.]
† shite-rags ← shit
† shiterow [n.]
shit-faced ← shit | shite [n.]
shit-fire ← shit
shit fit ← shit | shite [n.]
shit-for-brains ← shit [n.]
shit happens ← shit [n.]
shit-hole ← shit
shit-hot [adj.] ← shit
shit-house [n.] ← shit
shit-kicker ← shit

@Robusto Everything I post goes through my ROT-26 decoder.

kwak

4:49 PM

@Mitch gravatar.com/avatar/… what is it?

tchrist

> macbook# oed -A '\bbrown\b'
› alligator, bastard, black, brown, grey snapper, red snapper ← snapper
› American, Belleisle cress, Australian c., bank c., bastard c., bitter c., brown c., churl’s c., cow-c., dock-c., French c., garden c., golden c
., Indian c., lamb’s c., land c., meadow c., mouse-ear c., penny-c., pepper-c., Peter’s c., rock c., Spanish c., spring c., swine’s c., Thale c.,
tooth-c., tower c., town c., violet c., wall c., wart c., winter c., wild c., yellow c. ← cress
› Antwerp edge, edging stitch, Antwerp lace, Antwerp pigeon, Antwerp blue, brown, red ← Antwerp

kwak

oh, you've a mac!, damnit

tchrist

There, if you need more brown, ask me when I return. If you need more brawn, ask our local bantam-weight champion.

Andrew Leach

Are bantam-weights brawny?

tchrist

@AndrewLeach They think so.

Andrew Leach

4:52 PM

Right.

Good wishes for tomorrow, by the way.

skullpatrol

All 115 pounds of them.

tchrist

Thanks. I am no longer here. Loading the Audi-qua-speedboat now.

Andrew Leach

115lb = under nine stone, I think.

tchrist

macbook# units '115 lb' stone
	* 8.2142857
	/ 0.12173913

macbook# units '9 stone' pounds
	* 126
	/ 0.0079365079

macbook# units '9 stone' troypounds
	* 153.125
	/ 0.0065306122

kwak

do you really need the single quotes?

Robusto

4:55 PM

@tchrist: I'm trying to think of an aria from a Bach cantata, one that has an intro with a flute duet harmonizing in 6ths. I can't think of the name of it.

I wish there was a way to do musical notation in chat. Grr.

tchrist

@kwak Of course: you need to pass in two arguments exactly.

kwak

@tchrist ok

tchrist

@kwak I renege: doubles work just as well.

kwak

I need a glass of water

skullpatrol

@AndrewLeach The first title fight with gloves was between Chappie Moran and Tommy Kelly in 1889. At that time, the limit for this weight class was 110 pounds. In 1910, however, the British settled on a limit of 118

tchrist

4:56 PM

@Robusto That is only safe because of the flute’s natural soprano. Try that in a bassoon and watch them flee.

Andrew Leach

@Robusto This one? jsbachcantatas.com/documents/chapter-32-bwv-55.htm

tchrist

Check for 1st, 2nd, 3rd overtones/harmonics for that interval.

Robusto

@AndrewLeach I don't think so. I believe the aria involves an alto or two.

I only remember it because I played in it, but so long ago I can't remember which cantata it was.

tchrist

It’s like how you normally omit the 3rd from the bass in a full chord: its overtones muddy everything too quickly. So C-G in the bass but C-E-G in the treble.

Robusto

@tchrist It's bass to go below middle C. I thought everyone knew that.

tchrist

4:58 PM

@Robusto I don’t think the baritones will approve of the tenor of that statement.

Of course, an amateur / sub-concert baritone might as well be called a pentatone.

Robusto

@tchrist You could say the same thing in a less formal register.

tchrist

@Robusto Ok: Just-pubed junior-high-school baritones seldom manage more than a fifth before they pass out.

Plus you’ll never get an even temperament out of such hormonally poisoned lads.

Robusto

How will they ever negotiation the circle of fifths?

tchrist

Flatly. Very flatly.

Robusto

That would only be natural.

tchrist

5:04 PM

♮𝄫

Bah.

kwak

I'll show you how I look like in public

tchrist

macbook# uninames  'FLAT|SHARP|NATURAL'   music
‭ ♭  266D       MUSIC FLAT SIGN
‭ ♮  266E       MUSIC NATURAL SIGN
‭ ♯  266F       MUSIC SHARP SIGN
        = z notation infix bag count
        x (number sign - 0023)
‭ 𝄪  1D12A      MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE SHARP
‭ 𝄫  1D12B      MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE FLAT
‭ 𝄬  1D12C      MUSICAL SYMBOL FLAT UP
‭ 𝄭  1D12D      MUSICAL SYMBOL FLAT DOWN
‭ 𝄮  1D12E      MUSICAL SYMBOL NATURAL UP
‭ 𝄯  1D12F      MUSICAL SYMBOL NATURAL DOWN
‭ 𝄰  1D130      MUSICAL SYMBOL SHARP UP

@kwak You have red hair???

Are you sure you aren’t a Scot?

Or some other Celt?

Wait, you’re French.

kwak

@tchrist nah, the sun from window, I've chatain hair

tchrist

Are you Breton?

Oh.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Well, apart form melanoma.

kwak

I've tons of grain de beauté

tchrist

5:08 PM

Comme tu (le) dis.

Yo por mi parte creería cualquiera cosa que dijeses en cuanto a todo ello — y todo cabello además.

kwak

te puedues (tener confianza de mi) fijarte en mi

tchrist

Pero fíjate bien que cabello no tiene nada que ver con caballo, cuyos nombres de color son distintos y no siguen las normas del pelo humano.

@kwak Eso tiene que ser en mí porqué es pronombre tónico y no adjectivo pronominal como lo es en mi cabello.

El acento agudo los distinguen.

¿Ves?

kwak

si, vale

Johan Larsson

in F# on Stack Overflow Chat, 3 mins ago, by user3892448

Inheritance is the base class of all evil.

kwak

Pero, es muy difficil, poner le mascara cuando estar sobre la bicicleta

me falta aire

el possible si voy lentamente

Shit extends Inheritance

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:37 PM

@JohanLarsson Inheritance isn't a class in any language I use.

Johan Larsson

but you get the meaning right?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:49 PM

Well, yes, I can see through the wrongness

Johan Larsson

I liked the way he put it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It bugs me when people try to make technical jokes but get the principles wrong.

I mean, in most object hierarchies, "Inheritance" would be a leaf class, or maybe have a few subclasses like "MultipleInheritence", "MixinInheritence"

kwak

6:45 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Polymorphism isn't an interface in any language I use

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@kwak No, it's not an interface.

Cerberus

Boo.

kwak

Booby

A booby is a seabird in the genus Sula, part of the Sulidae family. Boobies are closely related to the gannets (Morus), which were formerly included in Sula. == Description == Boobies hunt fish by diving from a height into the sea and pursuing their prey underwater. Facial air sacs under their skin cushion the impact with the water. Boobies are colonial breeders on islands and coasts. They normally lay one or more chalky-blue eggs on the ground or sometimes in a tree nest. === Name === Their name was possibly based on the Spanish slang term bobo, meaning "stupid", as these tame birds had a habit...

Jason C

If I say "Something that I ate was spicy", what's the name for the "that I ate" part? I don't remember this from grade school English...

kwak

"was spicy" no?

idk for your question else

Jason C

6:54 PM

@kwak I guess they're both in the dictionary, but yeah...

Anonymous

@JasonC A relative clause.

kwak

yep that since "that" is a relative pronoun

Jason C

@snailboat Thanks!

Anonymous

[I ate something] → something [that I ate ___]

kwak

@snailboat what about "the person whose name is very long said blabla" (it's same I guess)

Jason C

6:58 PM

Huh; looking up "relative clause" in wikipedia might answer my question about why "if somebody you know or you" sounds awkward. If I say "you or somebody you know", is "somebody you know" a "bound relative clause"?

With the second "you" referring back to the first "you"?

Cerberus

> you [pronoun] or somebody [noun] you know [relative clause modifying somebody]

Phonics The Hedgehog

Is that what they call censorship

Jason C

@Cerberus I got that much I think; you or somebody you know is two subjects, and somebody is the second subject, and somebody is modified by the relative clause you know. But, when you switch the two subjects, it sounds really weird: "Somebody you know or you".

Cerberus

Yes.

Jason C

I guess... in "you[1] or somebody you[2] know", what is the difference between you[1] and you[2]?

Anonymous

7:05 PM

@kwak Yes, that is also a relative clause

Cerberus

If you switch the order, there are two ways you can parse the sentence, one of which wrong.

Phonics The Hedgehog

You've confused me enough. :P

Anonymous

The person's name is very long → the person [ whose name is very long ]

Cerberus

> somebody you know [is stupid] or you are stupid
somebody you know or [that] you [know] is stupid

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: There once was a man from on far Who got where he was in a car He finally stopped When all his ty…

posted on July 30, 2014 by sgdi

There once was a man from on far Who got where he was in a car He finally stopped When all his tyres popped He that that was quite bizarre

Anonymous

7:07 PM

@JasonC I'm not convinced by blgt's answer

Cerberus

The second parsing is wrong, but it would be possible grammatically (just not semantically). That is (part of) the problem.

Jason C

@snailboat Me neither.

@Cerberus It seems like a stretch to imply a missing "know" in the incorrect parsing, does that happen in casual speech or writing?

Cerberus

> somebody that your mother knows or your father will fix it

@JasonC How would you read that?

> somebody that your mother knows or that your father knows will fix it

> somebody that your mother knows will fix it or your father will fix it

You'll agree that both options are theoretically possible.

Jason C

@Cerberus Hm; interesting, but actually I'd read that as a compound sentence but with the first part being incomplete. "Somebody that your mother knows" or "Your father will fix it". Then my response would be "Somebody that my mother knows... what?"

kwak

@StackExchange Is that correct English?

Cerberus

7:15 PM

Well, I'm not saying the example is realistic. I'm just saying this is what may happen grammatically.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@kwak looks like it's missing a word in the last line

Cerberus

And it may explain the example sentence.

kwak

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 a double "that"

"from on far"

Jason C

@Cerberus Ok, I'm sort of buying that; but... I need to chew on this for a while. I wish I was more familiar with sentence structure terminology; there's subtle differences that I can't describe and it makes it hard to express questions.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> He thought that that was quite bizarre

That's how I'd write that line... it needs a certain number of syllables

Also I'd change "When all his tyres popped" to "When his tyres all popped"

Cerberus

7:19 PM

@JasonC Understandable.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Iz in ur chat room fixing ur limrix

Anonymous

@JasonC I would think it's a semantic constraint.

Anonymous