English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:03 PM

> His eyes shut of themselves, seeing no less shut than open; and the soft cold swirling snow of another day filled his mind, mocking the dry heat of black night.

skullpatrol

who wrote that?

tchrist

Horn. Or Silk. Definitely Wolfe.

RegDwigнt

@Mitch the German version is filthier still, "better a sparrow in the hand than a pigeon on the roof".

The Russians are more poetic again, "better a blue tit in the hand than a whooping crane in the sky".

tchrist

The children are watching!

But chickadees are cute.

skullpatrol

Yay keep your blue tits away from the hands

RegDwigнt

12:09 PM

So now people ask on ELU what "on hold" means on SO...

skullpatrol

"on hold" means "hold on"

tchrist

It means they’ve battened down the hatches and double-checked the latches.

skullpatrol

and lock up your daughters

RegDwigнt

... and other people migrate it to our meta, rather than migrating to MSO and closing as a dupe. Or closing outright as gen-ref.

tchrist

I propose their language be changed to mine.

skullpatrol

12:12 PM

so you want everybody to talk and to think like you?

RegDwigнt

I suggest that no one talk at all and everyone listen to me.

skullpatrol

i see, we have a dictator in the house

RegDwigнt

Then they can keep their vastly deficient tongue, for all I care.

@skullpatrol that's a malevolent dictator to you. Also, sir.

Robusto

hell-o

skullpatrol

hi

RegDwigнt

12:14 PM

O hell!

Postfixed vocative. Only in this chat, and only on Fridays.

Robusto

馬年

RegDwigнt

Stop sneezing.

Robusto

Post-ruined vocative, you mean.

username901345

hello

“My own experience and development deepen every day my conviction that our moral progress may be measured by the degree in which we sympathize with individual suffering and individual joy.”

RegDwigнt

Poste Rouen, I mean. In the High Normandy.

username901345

12:17 PM

What is this" may be?"

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Normans are always high on something.

RegDwigнt

@username901345 it's the default meaning of may. It is a possibility.

username901345

but it doesn't fit the context.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto yeah, like octane.

username901345

i thought it was th e same as "can be"

Robusto

12:18 PM

@RegDwigнt nontane

RegDwigнt

What a nontensical remark.

No really, no tense that I can see.

Robusto

No tense, no sense.

And I gotta go. Well, it's been fun. Laters.

RegDwigнt

Thank you, tensei.

tchrist

@Robusto We usually use post marks. The post hasn’t accepted runes in at least a millennium.

RegDwigнt

You just live in the wrong millenniumm.

We long suggested that you moved.

tchrist

12:20 PM

Stop that.

RegDwigнt

Harhar.

I always do that. I never do stop.

Five mmississippilli.

kalina

M, I, double S, I double S, I double P I

tchrist

Who in the world pronounces wraith as anything but [reɪθ]?

Matt Эллен

Jonathon Ross

tchrist

Weally.

Matt Эллен

12:23 PM

:D

tchrist

The Silmaril she bound on him,
and crowned him with the living light,
and dauntless then with burning brow
he turned his prow at middle-night.
Beyond the world, beyond the Sea,
then strong and free a storm arose,
a wind of power in Tarmenel;
by paths that seldom mortal goes
from Middle-earth on mighty breath
as flying wraith across the grey
and long-forsaken seas distressed
from East to West he passed away.

Tolkien was rhyming breath and wraith. I am astonished.

As though he were some refugee come south from the Orkneys.

Matt Эллен

[breɪθ] perhaps...

tchrist

I suppose that is the alternate possibility.

I remain astonished.

Matt Эллен

yeah

tchrist

You know he did the wraith entry for the OED.

So he was hardly unfamiliar with the word and all its connotations and origins — and, one would think, pronunciations.

Matt Эллен

12:27 PM

"I wrote the rules, so I can break them"

tchrist

Barry Manilow?

Matt Эллен

I don't think my nose is long enough

tchrist

I wish the kittens would stop treading upon my keyboard.

While I am typing.

KitFox

How was the DNA extraction yesterday?

tchrist

Why is a treadmill a mill?

KitFox

12:29 PM

Because it goes round.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I didn't do it in the end. I needed frozen strawberries

plus I was seconded to make icecream

KitFox

Oh, you are such a treat.

Matt Эллен

because the people who would have done that couldn't make it

tchrist

@MattЭллен You needed frozen strawberries in your bottom?

KitFox

eats Matt up

Matt Эллен

12:29 PM

yes, they're too squishy, otherwise

@KitFox arrrrgh! is devoured

but we can probably do DNA extraction either at the next stammtisch or next week

depending on what people want. I'd quite like to try

RegDwigнt

@MattЭллен who in the world is Jonathon Ross, and why do I care that he pronounces, much less what and how?

KitFox

Was ist ein Stammtisch?

RegDwigнt

He can't even spell his first name correctly.

tchrist

@MattЭллен How does one make eyes cream?

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt Jonathan Ross, with an o where an a should be

RegDwigнt

12:32 PM

@KitFox when you gather at the same table in a pub regularly.

Regulars' table.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist with a blender

KitFox

Und trinken Bier?

RegDwigнt

The extended meaning is that you don't even have to drink or eat. It can just be a meeting to discuss things.

Like, a LEGO Stammtisch.

KitFox

Ich mag das Wort.

Matt Эллен

Well, I don't honestly know why it's called a stammtisch. We're not German and there were a lot of irregulars

RegDwigнt

12:33 PM

Of course it's still usually in a pub of some sorts, so you are still very likely to actually drink or even eat.

Matt Эллен

there was drinking and eating, though not in a pub

RegDwigнt

There was eating, though not LEGO.

Matt Эллен

it was at the art warehouse

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Dialogue Blogue.

KitFox

Stammtisch. Wo ich esse keine LEGO.

tchrist

12:35 PM

Or dialect.

> Ross exhibits something I like to call “non-rhotic dialect r fronting.”

KitFox

Jetzt ich bin hungrig.

tchrist

> To put this into plain English, it means that where an average American or Brit would pronounce “r” with their tongue planced on the ridge behind the top teeth, Jonathan Ross and people like him pronounce it with the bottom lip placed near the top teeth. It’s not actually “w” we’re hearing, but something in between Standard English “w” and “r.”

KitFox

!!lego 72205

KitSox

brickset.com/detail/?Set=72205-1

KitFox

Oops.

tchrist

12:36 PM

Baba Wawa.

Baba Yaga?

KitFox

Uh...where is Brickset?

tchrist

The briquettes are in the barbie.

Matt Эллен

oh dear

KitFox

I can see from the cache that it says "Come test drive the new site" or somesuch.

"Before it goes live on Feb 3rd"

But I get a big blank page.

And an error if I try to access subpages.

Matt Эллен

big blank page for me too

KitFox

12:40 PM

Well.

Someone is probably feeling pretty awkward about that right now.

Matt Эллен

how could you tell?

oh, you mean at brickset

KitFox

Haha.

grumbles, shakes fist at Brickset I'll be back later, Brickset. Just you wait.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox they've been experiencing problems for two plus days.

KitFox

I see.

RegDwigнt

They only came back up to announce that they were down, then went right back down again.

Matt Эллен

12:44 PM

I think it's interesting that Cockneys tend to pronounce final /l/ like [əʊ]. So, e.g., pail sounds like [peɪəʊ]

actually, that's not entirely accurate.

RegDwigнt

Cockneys with lazers. Peɪəʊ-peɪəʊ!

Matt Эллен

I think well is pronounced [wɛʊ]

if that's possible

RegDwigнt

Who let the Cockneys out, wɛʊ, wɛʊ, wɛʊ-wɛʊ.

Matt Эллен

maybe [wɛw]

RegDwigнt

Wews.

Matt Эллен

12:48 PM

I'm not too great at the old IPA

RegDwigнt

Hey @Kit you already saw the next Cuusoo set?

Them's making Ghostbusters.

KitFox

Really?

RegDwigнt

Also, they have a new announcer for their videos and OMG so annoying.

I haven't seen it.

12:49 PM

[pɛʊ] but as two syllables

RegDwigнt

I literally cringed all the way through.

It was physical torture.

Her facial expressions and gestures are a weird mix of... things.

KitFox

That's what I look like. My headphones have gone wonky though, so I can't tell what she sounds like.

RegDwigнt

Yeah no.

I know what you look like.

Matt Эллен

You look like a weird mix of things

KitFox

I mean my facial expressions are like that.

That annoying kind of pathetically empathetic.

RegDwigнt

12:52 PM

That's impossible. This gal clearly had decades of training.

Not sure to what end.

Other than killing me unsoftly with that LEGO set.

KitFox

I've had decades of training. sulks

RegDwigнt

Anywevs, I must go buy some Sprudel.

KitFox

Why are my headphones refusing to work?

RegDwigнt

Oh, and I wonder if they will butcher Ghostbusters like they did DeLorean.

KitSox

Headphones

Headphones (or "head-phones" in the early days of telephony and radio) are a pair of small loudspeakers that are designed to be held in place close to a user's ears. They are also known as earspeakers, earphones or, colloquially, cans. The alternate in-ear versions are known as earbuds or earphones. In the context of telecommunication, a headset is a combination of headphone and microphone. Headphones either have wires for connection to a signal source such as an audio amplifier, radio, CD player, portable media player, mobile phone, electronic musical instrument, or have a wireless rece...

RegDwigнt

12:54 PM

Possibly misspell "ECTO", too.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox the magnets have fallen out

KitFox

Oh, I got it, I think.

RegDwigнt

@MattЭллен how do they work?

KitFox

It didn't switch over automagically.

RegDwigнt

Lators!

Matt Эллен

12:55 PM

@RegDwigнt well, the elctrons spin and if there are an odd number of electrons then you get magnetism

@RegDwigнt CU

KitFox

Many youtube videos are now crashing.

frowns

I think I will reboot. brb

Matt Эллен

youtube. more like crashtube. amirite?

skullpatrol

KitFox

Still can't watch the new Ephemeral Rift video.

sad panda

Mitch

1:10 PM

@KitFox You should make an appointment with your ophthalmologist then.

Also get some meds for your panda.

@RegDwigнt on the contrary, that's rather hygienic. Pigeons are like rats with wings, you don't know what they've gotten into.

skullpatrol

Damkerng T.

1:25 PM

Cute!

skullpatrol

but sad

Damkerng T.

Why is it so, the panda looks happy, doesn't she?

And bubbles too.

skullpatrol

dunno, that's what came up on the image search

Mitch

2:01 PM

@MattЭллен What...there's a new IPA?

KitFox

2:17 PM

Ich habe etwas Frühstück gegessen.

Es wast gutundyummy.

username901345

2:48 PM

If I say, "What was my surprise when I saw him!"

is it natural>

to mean, "Oh man! I was surprised when i saw him!!"

KitFox

Only if you are about two hundred years old.

username901345

oh

is it old fashioned+

?

"I ate the humble bread." "I ate humble bread"

what is the difference?

does the first mean, "bread is typically humble." the second means "bread is not typically humble but what I ate was humble."

?

skullpatrol

3:19 PM

The difference is obviously one word, right? The impact on the change in meaning of the sentence needs more context.

@username901345 normally the word the means a particular bread or whatever..

when "the" is omitted, you can think of it as "any" humble bread

I ate the humble bread that was offered to me by the poor farmers.

I ate humble bread because we couldn't afford the fancy stuff.

Like I said @username901345 the change in meaning of the sentence needs more context.

username901345

3:51 PM

i see

thanks

skullpatrol

thanks for asking, I hope that makes some sense :-)

MετάEd

@Mitch There's one born every minute.

username901345

@MετάEd What does this mean? "He made me as I am now."

MετάEd

@username901345 Context?

username901345

Oh

wait

He abandoned his ship and escaped with the passengers still on board a sinking ship.

And he is talking to this old man.

He says he was scared...

then this

God alone, who had willed him as he was, knows what he made of it in his heart.

i don't understand this as

MετάEd

4:14 PM

@username901345 I suppose this is the same old idea that people are the way they are because God makes them that way.

14 minutes to go \o/

till?

12 minutes \o/

till?

@MετάEd so if I say, God made me as I am now. it means I am like this coz god wanted me to be this way?

MετάEd

4:21 PM

@username901345 Isn't that a completely different statement?

username901345

what do you mean

Mitch

4:48 PM

@MετάEd IPA = suckers, got it.

@RegDwigнt Crane's are good eating? What kind of poetry is that?

RegDwigнt

5:16 PM

@Mitch Crane is are? What kind of grammar is that?

This is disturbing on so many levels.

I am tempted to make a ripoff ad saying "Reg does not use SE Android app".

Johan Larsson

5:57 PM

Feel like some Friday music but can't think of anything

MετάEd

6:13 PM

@JohanLarsson You can never go wrong with classical guitar.

Johan Larsson

you have any links?

Listening to Trojan now but it is not what I need

MετάEd

6:27 PM

@JohanLarsson I would just plug classical guitar into Pandora.

There's a theme station already set up.

Johan Larsson

6:39 PM

never heard of Pandora before

aw got canceled today, I went down to work for some wa instead

aedia λ

7:31 PM

tiptoes quietly around everyone sleeping

KitFox

7:54 PM

@aediaλ bark!

aedia λ

Eep!

cyril

8:25 PM

The word excerpt is not really used right? (too formal maybe)

as a synonym, (not exactly ther same meaning) of description

aedia λ

Normal people probably don't walk down the street saying "excerpt" a lot, but plenty of people use it in technical contexts.

cyril

Yes I see, it still has a particular meaning

aedia λ

Programmers talk about displaying an excerpt of some text on a search results page, librarians might talk about an excerpt shown on a cover, etc.

cyril

thanks (extrait in French) like extract

!!define extract

KitSox

@cyril extract That which is extracted or drawn out.

cyril

8:30 PM

!!define excerpt

KitSox

@cyril excerpt a clip, snippet, passage or extract from a larger work such as a news article, a film, a literary composition or other media

aedia λ

excerpt is really only used to talk about a part of a larger work (especially text). extract can have that same meaning, but also has other meanings like in chemistry where it isn't a synonym for excerpt.

Damkerng T.

lurking into the room to see if anyone's still awake

aedia λ

Me!

Thanks to copious amounts of coffee.

Damkerng T.

Ah, hello!

I just finished chapter 2 of A Farewell to Arms.

aedia λ

8:41 PM

Good afternoon (or appropriate time of day for your location)!

Damkerng T.

It's in the night here. (My timezone is GMT+7.)

Good afternoon!

aedia λ

Ah, how are you holding up with Hemingway so far?

Damkerng T.

Just two chapters. :-)

I'm hoping that I don't have to throw the book out of the window like in that movie. :P

I think I like it.

Up to this point, I'm still unsure who our protagonist is.

An Italian officer, perhaps.

Gonna take it easy. One chapter a day. :D

How are things going there?

aedia λ

Pretty good! Freezing cold, but not snowing, so I'm happy.

Damkerng T.

Oh, that sounds great!

KitFox

8:50 PM

Oh, Hemingway. Excellent choice.

Damkerng T.

Thank you.

I was inspired by that trailer.

Jasper Loy

@KitFox Hi, it's Friday!

Hi.

Oh, Silver Linings lol.

Damkerng T.

8:53 PM

I didn't watch the movie yet, but the trailer made me curious. :D

KitFox

Hemingway is really lovely to read. I aspire to write like that.

Damkerng T.

I really like the way he narrated the scene in the first chapter.

KitFox

He's very thought-provoking, mostly because of what he doesn't write.

Damkerng T.

I can imagine it, though I've never seen a chestnut tree before. :-)

@KitFox Oh, thank you. I'll keep that in mind while reading his books.

KitFox

I can't remember if I read A Farewell to Arms. I know for sure I read For Whom the Bell Tolls and some of his short stories.

One in particular, I think it was called Cat in the Rain, was so moving that I can still remember how I felt when I read it twenty-five years ago.

Damkerng T.

8:58 PM

We also got a quote from The Moveable Feast in one of ELL questions too.

In his quote, I think he sounds a little out of place.

KitFox

There was all this superficial discussion about the observation of a cat out in the rain, and the subtext left you with a very subtle ache.

Jasper Loy

It's so hard to get from main to meta and meta to main now.

Damkerng T.

@KitFox Now you made me want to read it. :-)

@JasperLoy What happened?

KitFox

@DamkerngT. english.heacademy.ac.uk/explore/resources/seminars/activities/…

Jasper Loy

Somehow I don't enjoy reading at all...

@DamkerngT. It used to be much easier in the past, before they changed the interface.

Damkerng T.

9:01 PM

@KitFox Thank you very much!

Oh, it's a short story? Two pages.

The story is lovely.

@KitFox When I read the word kitty in the story, somehow it reminds me of you. :-)

KitFox

I get that a lot. Except I'm a kit fox, not a kitty cat. But similar. Kinda.

Damkerng T.

A tortoiseshell cat is also nice. I have a cat too.

Jasper Loy

When I google kit fox, all I see is pictures of foxes, no Kit Fox.

Damkerng T.

The story also reminds me of myself somehow.

KitFox

@JasperLoy You have seen plenty of pictures of me.

Jasper Loy

9:15 PM

@KitFox Yes, over 9000 years ago!

Wow, this Susan is earning rep very quickly.

So after trying out linux for some time, I am thinking of trying out BSD.

I think I will try GhostBSD and PCBSD first since they are the easiest.

Mitch

9:35 PM

@RegDwigнt You should ask that at ELU. It's called the Oxford apostrophe. I call it a stylistic choice, but those uptight bastards there will say it is necessary. Some will say it is forbidden. I say go with the flow.

@DamkerngT. no. no one's awake

RegDwigнt

@Mitch there are no greengrocers in Oxford. Not even in Oxford, Michigan.

But I'm not sure what I'm even doing here.

The site's dead already, and will be deader still in the two days ahead.

So speaking of going with the flow, perhaps I should just sleep through.

tchrist

No greengrocers because of the snow.

I want to sleep.

RegDwigнt

Again?

Or still?

tchrist

Well, again.

I mean, I think we slept about the same time.

So I have been up almost 12 hours again, and didn't get enough last night.

Plus the work stress makes me want to pollute myself, which is unusual, but everyone is doing it.

RegDwigнt

That reminds me. I can't sleep through, either.

tchrist

9:45 PM

Read: alcohol

RegDwigнt

tchrist

Mine or thine?

RegDwigнt

Not that it means anything, but.

Mine.

Not sure about yours.

You were like on hiatus the last week or so.

tchrist

Mine broke during the troubles last fall.

Coding.

RegDwigнt

That, too.

tchrist

9:45 PM

I'm still here.

The hacking is stenuous.

RegDwigнt

Use a larger axe.

tchrist

Keeps moving out form under me.

And the people both upstream and downstream of me are Very Very Difficult.

RegDwigнt

I'm not sure which of sensuous, strenuous, tenuous you meant.

tchrist

I should just get out of the way and let them fight it out.

RegDwigнt

But: do use a larger axe.

tchrist

9:47 PM

My kitten, the longhaired one, is insane.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist you forget India.

tchrist

My ass I forget India!

RegDwigнt

@tchrist insane insane or just insane?

tchrist

Who the hell do you think is driving me nuts?

He is sitting out all day in the snow below freezing lurking under the big rock under the birdfeeder.

RegDwigнt

Well I wasn't sure how India was [anything]stream of South Park.

T's been a while since I consulted a map.

tchrist

9:48 PM

The shorthaired one refuses to go out for more than 5 minutes, but the other lies there all day long.

Listen, young man, I’ve been to South Park.

And to North Park, for that matter.

RegDwigнt

Exactly. But you only ever phone to India.

tchrist

A "park" in this sense is not what you think it is.

It is an old term for a wide open high steppe, unforested.

RegDwigнt

A wal mart parking lot?

Ah yes. That's a yes.

tchrist

Like a plateau between mountain ranges.

It has pronghorn living on it.

And it has 2-mile-high stadium, too.

RegDwigнt

Long live pronghorn.

tchrist

9:50 PM

They will.

They are the fastest sustainable speeded land animal.

RegDwigнt

Prongs, horns, and cockroaches will outlive the sun.

tchrist

They evolved to run away from cheetahs.

Which are no longer resident.

And pumas have no chance.

RegDwigнt

Shirley there's no shortage of Texans with big 'uns shooting around?

tchrist

Hm. Well, I think they go up to Wyoming for that. We get kinda jumpy here.

RegDwigнt

Interesting.

tchrist

9:51 PM

We believe in keeping rifles and shotguts if you live in the woods, because bears.

RegDwigнt

I suppose you'll have hippies with small guns, though.

tchrist

Never tell a man he has a small gun.

RegDwigнt

Not a man. A hippie.

tchrist

But I don’t know anybody who would own a handgun.

RegDwigнt

I see. All traded in for bong.

tchrist

9:52 PM

It’s best that way.

RegDwigнt

I won't be disagreeing with that.

tchrist

Who would you be more afraid of, you know?

There are people in the inner city of Denver with handguns I know. Gangs and such.

I go not there.

RegDwigнt

So okay. No cheetahs and no guns. That does leave the pronghorns.

tchrist

Yes. They are phenomenally fleet. I use a very long lens.

RegDwigнt

Never tell a man he has a very short lens.

tchrist

9:54 PM

When I shoot them.

That would be wide.

RegDwigнt

Exactly. Nice euphemism.

tchrist

Just call it wide. Doesn’t smart as much.

RegDwigнt

Your lens is so short but wait, don't kill me, the girth also matters.

tchrist

Bend over when you say that.

See, can’t be done.

RegDwigнt

Hey I'm still trying.

Mitch

9:58 PM

@RegDwigнt In Oxford, Mississippi, they don't even have green groceries.

RegDwigнt

Yeah all brown there.

Because of the many floods.

Or the much burning.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…