English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@Kit Ah OK. I also include other stores, like the tea shop where I buy my tea, and the cheese shop, and the Turk where I buy aubergine rolls and mayonnaise...

But not the market, because that's cash. But I rarely go to the market.

Kit

@Cerberus We don't have those sorts of things here.

Cerberus

No shops other than the supermarket? I get most of my stuff there too.

Like 95 %.

Johan Larsson

2:08 PM

@Kit There probably are but you have to look for them.

Cerberus

Supermarkets are so terribly convenient.

Kit

Not where I live. There are a few bakeries, but they mostly sell to the local grocer.

There are no cheese shops or butchers.

Cerberus

Hmm.

I wonder why.

How many inhabitants does your town have?

Kit

We send our pigs and cows a few towns over for butchering.

Cerberus

Heh.

Johan Larsson

2:09 PM

I don't like supermarkets because then some CEO gets the money. I rather pay the double and know that the farmer gets the money.

Kit

@Cerberus Not enough to make cheese shops relevant.

@JohanLarsson We don't buy a lot of produce at the store except in the winter.

Which, granted, is half the year.

We get fruit there.

Cerberus

Where I grew up, we had 60k people. And various cheese shops. Then again, this is cheeseland.

Kit

Otherwise, we get our vegetables from a CSA share or friends.

Eggs too.

Cerberus

CSA?

Kit

Community supported agriculture.

Cerberus

2:11 PM

I wish I had something like that.

Kit

It's a farm share.

Johan Larsson

If the farmer makes good money he can provide better for the animals. If the CEO gets them he just wants to keep maximizing his profit margin.

Kit

We go to the grocer for boxed stuff and staples.

And it's a locally owned store to boot.

Cerberus

I know there are people who get "vegetable baskets" or something here, but I think they are fairly expensive. And I know I'm not good at remembering what I have lying rotting in the fridge, alas. But I like the idea.

Johan Larsson

But you said you had no alternatives to supermarket and then you say you have the best alternative possible!

Kit

2:12 PM

No alternatives for shops.

We trade apples.

Although we didn't have much of a crop this year.

And next year we'll be living someplace new.

Cerberus

I guess little shops are hit-or-miss for small towns, as in less than 10k people.

Kit

So we'll have to plant a new orchard.

Cerberus

Or 5k. I don't know.

Kit

@Cerberus It's not American culture either.

Cerberus

Hmm really?

Small shops are more expensive.

So they normally sell higher quality stuff than supermarkets.

Kit

2:14 PM

Nobody wants to go to a half dozen shops just to get the basics.

Cerberus

Yeah.

Especially not if they are more expensive.

Johan Larsson

I do that, small & expensive, really like it.

Cerberus

Which is why I buy nearly everything at my supermarket.

But high-quality products you will rarely find in supermarkets. Perhaps yours are better than ours: at least mine is pretty meh. Small too. I picture American supermarkets as huge! Like French suburban supermarkets, those are great.

Kit

Americans don't do that. Especially not rural farmers.

Johan Larsson

I strongly dislike spending money on big companies products.

Cerberus

2:16 PM

@JohanLarsson Oh, I like it already! But...

Kit

I don't know what you think of as huge.

Cerberus

Let's say everything in your country is huge to us, hehe.

Kit

And for what we buy, well, we still buy mostly local or regional products. Yogurt from Vermont, for instance.

Rice and pasta come from farther away.

Johan Larsson

@Kit Minor detail : ' He tapped his pencil, agitated.' for some reason that broke the magic a little for me, made me aware of the writer I guess.

Kit

@JohanLarsson makes note Thanks.

And we can request things at my supermarket too.

Cerberus

2:18 PM

@Kit Oh, that's great! We hardly have that in supermarkts, nearly everything comes from huge factories/distribution centres.

Johan Larsson

Failed at quoting

Cerberus

Does this supermarket look small to you?

Johan Larsson

Love that!

Kit

@Cerberus Looks like a convenience store.

So yes, small.

@JohanLarsson It's the multiline. It doesn't like the >

Cerberus

It is a regular supermarket, in that it has mostly the same kinds of products and prices as the largest supermarkets, just fewer.

I have tons of "supermarkets" in my neighbourhood where they sell mainly cigarettes, coke, pizzas, crisps, that sort of thing.

Johan Larsson

2:20 PM

@Kit I really liked the multiline for some reason.

Kit

@Cerberus Yeah, those are just "convenience stores" here.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Thanks! Although it could have been larger, grrr...

Kit

I do marketing analysis for c-stores.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus larger?

Kit

You guys tweened and now you're all confused.

Cerberus

2:22 PM

@Kit Yeah, I don't know what we call convenience stores. We don't call them supermarkets, although they often call themselves that. The picture I posted, however, is a real supermarket. Just small.

@JohanLarsson MOAR FOOD!

Johan Larsson

oh, I meant I loved that passage in the story.

So simple, so perfect.

Kit

blushes

Cerberus

This is the same brand/chain, just a much larger store; they have the same products as in the small one, in addition to many other products.

Ah, well.

I wish they had a huge supermarket underground.

Kit

That looks about regular sized to me.

Ours might be twice as large, but it probably services a larger area.

Cerberus

Yeah, it is large for us, but that may also be because all shops are deeper than they are wide, if you know what I mean. The front is always the short side.

Kit

2:26 PM

Yeah, OK. It might be about the same size then.

But it serves several towns.

Cerberus

The small one is 2 minutes from here on foot, the large one 10 minutes.

And there are probably 10 others within walking distance.

Kit

Ours has probably about a 10-mile service area.

Cerberus

How many people?

Kit

Maybe bigger if you consider the population to the east.

A few thousand.

Cerberus

OK.

Kit

2:28 PM

The nearest town has a population of around 30,000 including the close rural areas.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Kit

There are maybe five grocery stores there.

Cerberus

Right.

That is probably similar to here.

Kit

Although I can only think of three off the top of my head.

Cerberus

They always hide the cheaper ones from you!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:30 PM

@RegDwighт Almost. She had me up until the magic underwear.

Kit

She's Mormon?

follows links OIC

Johan Larsson

But there something is wrong about this memory. <- Correct?

Kit

Yes?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kit No, actually she's Muslim. But she's reading "God is not great" by Hitchins and I think she might be reconsidering her position

Kit

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And you're ministering to her? God help us all.

chortles

Cerberus

2:33 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Heh, probably...interesting.

Sooo.

Johan Larsson

@Kit I really really liked the story!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kit I wouldn't say "ministering". We were both discussing how many things about religion don't make sense and how Egypt, where she's from, used to be way more liberal and relaxed, and how the fundamentalism that's there is really a product of the last 2-3 decades. Then her husband came home and the three of us further discussed things that make no sense in religion.

But if you point out enough things that make no sense in religion, sometimes religious people become less religious.

Cerberus

Yeah.

Kit

1 hour ago, by Kit

I could never fathom why it wasn't convincing to people when I could stand in a coffeeshop and blaspheme God and nothing happened.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 In my experience, if people don't resist your arguments, it usually means they are have doubts.

Johan Larsson

2:38 PM

@Kit I can remove the star if you want.

Kit

@JohanLarsson I'm glad. It is one of my favorites.

@JohanLarsson I could remove it too, if I wanted.

Johan Larsson

@Kit One of my too!

mine?

Cerberus

*mineses

Johan Larsson

meh

Kit

Mods have that power.

Cerberus

2:39 PM

You're as good as God.

(M/G)od.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus "doubts"? perhaps. They could also be just not into arguing, or perhaps they have a more relaxed belief system. Like "Sure, maybe the bible is mostly wrong, but so what, there's probably a god anyway".

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 If they say that, it is resisting. If they don't, that is a sign.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus That's how my son talks.

Kit

It amazes me how regular my children's grammar is.

Cerberus

We're cute, huh?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:40 PM

@Cerberus I see what you mean.

@Kit yeah seriously. It's "wrong", but so logical.

Cerberus

Of course people can surprise you.

And the most confident, erudite believers may smirk or smile at your arguments without challenging them.

Kit

It's hard to figure. They must learn abstract rules because they've certainly never heard me say "catched."

Cerberus

Yup.

Animals are hard-wired to try and identify patterns, regularity, in everything, especially humans.

Patterns allow us to predict things better.

And deal with those things.

Kit

Not having the correct irregulars is not too surprising, but there are some constructions that I didn't notice until I heard my eldest use them wrong.

Cerberus

Like which?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:44 PM

@Kit Yeah, exactly. The hypothesize what the rules are, then experiment by saying things, and as they get corrected or pay attention and listen more, they learn stuff and change their behaviour.

Kit

I can't quite think it right. "To be" "He bes" something, but he uses it only in the conditional position.

Cerberus

"If he be rich"?

How learned.

Oh, "if he bes".

Kit

Not quite, but similar.

Cerberus

"If he bes rich, his mother wasps a WASP."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My son says things like "who is them" or "where are them", "that's mine's"

Kit

2:46 PM

Like "bees". He bes laying down cover, then the droids could intercept the bombs.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My daughter still has a few irregular verbs wrong too, like "my hands were freezed"

Kit

But he means it as a conditional.

Cerberus

It is strange that he should use bes only in if-less conditionals...could it be related to "had I told him, he would..." and "should I see him, ..."?

Or is it just a circumstance rather than a condition, as regularly expressed by the continuous?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm the first two are interesting.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yeah. There are some other subject/object pronouns he messes up too.

Cerberus

As long as he doesn't say "that's me", God forbid!

Or gasp there's bees in my bonnet!

Kit

2:50 PM

My eldest got gender-specific pronouns very early.

That surprised me.

I blame breast-feeding.

Cerberus

Haha.

Kit

Now even the littlest likes to announce that I don't have a penis.

Further convincing me that penises are the only thing that boys ever think about.

Johan Larsson

It is mainly considered a thinking device i think

Cerberus

@Kit How nice of him. Does he do it on the bus too?

Johan Larsson

punnish

Cerberus

2:54 PM

Haha.

Kit

@Cerberus No, just at the dinner table. When he's thinking about it.

Johan Larsson

A recursive thinking device.

Kit

He'll get a thoughtful look. "F—, do you need to use the potty?"

He shakes his head. "I have a penis. Daddy has a penis. E— has a penis. MOMMY DOESN'T HAVE A PENIS!" Then he laughs.

And goes back to eating yogurt.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It could be worse.

Jez

anyone here have experience with ASP.NET MVC programming?

Kit

2:58 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 At the pool too. And the hardware store. I don't mind it. I think it's funny.

@Jez asp.net yes, mvc no.

Jez

0

Q: Good naming convention for classes associated with an MVC app directory?

I'm developing an ASP.NET MVC web application, and so far, my project structure looks like this: I have various one-off classes I use with the controllers and views in my application (like CachingAndUtils.cs, and they're not comprehensive enough to warrant their own directory, so I stick them ...

i'm looking for advice on application file/directory structure

i think i've got it mostly right but there's a disparate collection of classes (like caching, Automapper stuff, etc.) that I currently have in "Helpers"

but Helpers doesn't really sound right to me

Kit

Hmm, that I can't be useful for.

Support?

Jez

nah

Kit

Looks like mostly Extensions.

Utility?

Jez

well Utils was one of my considerations

i use the name Utils all over the place

Kit

3:00 PM

That's pretty common I think.

Jez

utility:

2. something useful; a useful thing.

rather generic name

Kit

My neighbor has this kind of lisping voice that just makes me feel sleepy.

She's on the phone right now and my eyes are drooping.

Cerberus

@Kit As good a time as any.

On the phone with you?

Or are you eavesdropping?

Kit

No, some friend of hers I guess.

Cerberus

OK.

Kit

3:03 PM

Eavesdropping only because she's left her door open.

Cerberus

Front door?

I didn't think you lived that close to other people.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

presumably it's a work neighbour

it's too cold to leave your house door open

Kit

Yeah, work neighbor.

Cerberus

Ahh.

That splains it.

Johan Larsson

@Jez I don't like that about SO, that everything has to be closed. Good question imo.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:19 PM

@JohanLarsson I voted to reopen.

Johan Larsson

nice, i would too is i could

upvoted at least

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

►

2

Man whose house-for-sale ad says "no asians"

Johan Larsson

wtf/minute ~200

Kit

Hahaha.

Johan Larsson

Have I spammed the wtf meter here yet? Mousewheel is only input, Apple that!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:27 PM

@JohanLarsson what is it?

Johan Larsson

It is a small app i wrote to learn some WPF

ah

Nice.

You should hook it up to Kinect so that it can recognize gestures like facepalm, or shaking your fist in rage, or giving the screen a middle finger, and register a higher wtf rating.

Johan Larsson

3:32 PM

yeah

Also that it goes down to zero is not very realistic, there should be some input validation there.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hilarious!

Australians. Tsk, tsk.

@JohanLarsson Are those pieces of apple I see in the back ground? Granny Smith and Golden Delicious, for instance?

Johan Larsson

Win 7 logo, vanilla desktop.

Cerberus

I know.

Johan Larsson

I failed, again. :)

Cerberus

Hehe.

I was just messing with you.

Johan Larsson

3:39 PM

I understand that now

Cerberus

I know.

Kit

I keep debating whether I should try deploying these changes to production or not.

The last time I did that on a Friday, it did not work well.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

maybe do it during off hours

Cerberus

Hmm is there no way to test them?

Kit

I should probably do it on Monday instead.

Cerberus

3:49 PM

Probably.

Is there any reason to do it now?

Kit

I'm impatient and I want my sites in sync.

It's a change that is unlikely to be noticed by the users.

I switched the content to database tables.

Cerberus

Heh.

I know the feeling. Better do it on Monday.

Kit

So that I can just copy the web files without having to worry about the differences.

Mahnax

Good morning.

Cerberus

Monastery in St Petersburg.

Hello.

Kit

3:51 PM

Hey @mah.

Mahnax

How are you all doing?

Oh dear, I need to go.

OK and you?

Bye!

Bai.

Probably old ^

3:52 PM

@JohanLarsson That's right, bitches.

Johan Larsson

I have deleted a bunch of unit tests today.

Matt Эллен

hello!

Kit

Hullo!

Ima get lunch. you want?

Cerberus

Uh, yeah!!

Hello!

Matt Эллен

4:10 PM

Yeah! I'ma have pizza!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 priceless :D

Kit

Taco salad day. Taco salad day!

Johan Larsson

@Kit when I said I liked the story I was not being polite. Feel I should point it out as I have been so fkn nice all day :)

Kit

Well, my ego disallowed that as a possibility.

Matt Эллен

@Kit yeah! taco salad

Johan Larsson

4:28 PM

I did not even hate the spider.

Kit

You couldn't. It was impossible.

Now I've killed chat.

laments

Matt Эллен

at least you haven't killed cats

Kit

looks evasive

Matt Эллен

4:44 PM

takes evasive action

Mahnax

@Cerberus I'm well, thanks.

@Kit Yay!

Kit

5:02 PM

I can't decide on a new fox.

Johan Larsson

@Kit Have you read Imre Kertész?

Kit

The name sounds familiar, but I have not read any of those works.

Johan Larsson

I think you will like him, I did, Fateless is absolutely beautiful.

Kit

I will put it on my list of things to read.

Johan Larsson

It is short, you read it in one night.

Kit

5:13 PM

I read most things in one night, before I had children.

Now it is difficult to focus for that long.

Matt Эллен

►

Kit

?

Is that you?

Matt Эллен

me? no it's a facebook friend

Kit

Ah HA!

I was wondering how you would have found it what with only 3 views.

Matt Эллен

the picture in question

Kit

5:26 PM

She's too young for you.

lol

Hi @MattЭллен

Hi

How are you?

I'm fine. How are you?

Sudhir

5:29 PM

I'm good

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен She should have linked to the language-log post that explains that "aks" is at least as old as "ask"

Kit

She should rather just not feed trolls.

Matt Эллен

@Kit we were all 19 once

Sudhir

I just seen your FB profile

Looking so nice

Kit

@MattЭллен I still do it. I can't help it.

Sudhir

5:31 PM

@MattЭллен

Matt Эллен

That's kinda intrusive, @Sudhir. Why have you sought out my Facebook profile why I told you I didn't want you to have it?

Kit

@Sudhir. Settle down and don't harangue.

Sudhir

I'm not sure

its you or someone else

I seen your website

there I found your FB Profile

Matt Эллен

my website is public. That's what I want people to see. My FB profile is private.

Sudhir

still not sure

Matt Эллен

5:33 PM

you can't have found my FB profile from my website. they are not linked.

Sudhir

Your name I got

from there

Kit

From there? It's also right here.

Sudhir

Sorry!@MattЭллен

If you didn't liked

Actually I seen your pic

from your site

Matt Эллен

Yes, you've seen things I'm happy for anyone to see.

that's fine.

Please don't go trying to find me on FB

Sudhir

ok

dear

I read your about us

You were thinking to go to Japan?

@MattЭллен

Matt Эллен

5:41 PM

Japan is an interesting place. I might want to go there, some day.

Sudhir

that's great

My English is weak @MattЭллен

What should I do to improve it?

you there?

bye

@MattЭллен

It seems you got angry with me.

Kit

@Sudhir, you are being pushy and intrusive.

Matt Эллен

Yes. I am quite angry that you have done something I clearly didn't want you to do

Kit

It is not considered proper social behavior.

Sudhir

@Kit: What I have done wrong?

MετάEd

5:48 PM

Stalking

Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted or obsessive attention by an individual or group toward another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them. The word stalking is used, with some differing meanings, in psychology and psychiatry and also in some legal jurisdictions as a term for a criminal offense. According to a 2002 report by the National Center for Victims of Crime, "Virtually any unwanted contact between two people [that intends] to directly or indirectly communicates a th...

Kit

@Sudhir Well, you are being overly personal with Matt.

And demanding.

It's not nice.

Sudhir

Sorry if you guys treat me a Stalker.

Kit

Just stop being one and it will be fine.

It's like jumping rope. You have to watch for a while and get the rhythm.

You can't just jump right in or you will hurt yourself and annoy people.

Sudhir

Oh