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12:24 AM
not much worth voting up today
 
12:35 AM
> 2013-02-01: The "close as duplicate" process has been updated: the interface to search for duplicate questions has been improved, and users may no longer vote to close questions as duplicates of questions that do not have an upvoted or accepted answer
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Q: Changes to "close as duplicate"

Shog9As you may have noticed, Jarrod's been hacking away at some design changes to the "close as duplicate" UI. These are the first fruits of some discussions we've been having internally regarding the "close" UI as a whole, with the goal being a smoother, easier-to-understand experience for all invol...

 
Kit
12:53 AM
Well, I'm all caught up. Later.
 
Interpret it into what? It's already in English. — Robusto 15 secs ago
 
1:12 AM
@Robusto Curious question.
 
@BillFranke: Which USA are you talking about? Where I live you could do that all day and not lose your camera. People would think you were a doofus, though. — Robusto 2 mins ago
 
 
2 hours later…
3:30 AM
@Robusto He’s just scaremongering with Asian-friendly propaganda against America as a culture of thieves. People are forever asking me to do this. I always give them back their camera when I’m done. :)
Then again, maybe they realize I have no incentive: the camera I’m carrying is always better than theirs. :)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:35 AM
Hello.
 
5:31 AM
Hi.
 
5:55 AM
Gah, why are people vacuuming at this hour?
 
 
7 hours later…
1:21 PM
@Mahnax There's room here for a joke about people who suck but I'm not writing it.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:30 PM
Nyarlathotep
 
Is that Egyptian?
 
It had been old when Babylon was new;
 None knows how long it slept beneath that mound,
 Where in the end our questing shovels found
 Its granite blocks and brought it back to view.
 There were vast pavements and foundation-walls,
 And crumbling slabs and statues, carved to shew
 Fantastic beings of some long ago
 Past anything the world of man recalls.
I’m afraid that Lovecraft was just not that great of a poet.
 
Is it I or is the metre weird?
 
It doesn’t feel like a proper sonnet to me.
 
> of some long ago
 
2:45 PM
"None knows" are two strong beats. You can do that now and then, but the whole thing just doesn’t have that Xanadu feel to it either.
And at the last from inner Egypt came
 The strange dark One to whom the fellahs bowed;
 Silent and lean and cryptically proud,
 And wrapped in fabrics red as sunset flame.
 Throngs pressed around, frantic for his commands,
 But leaving, could not tell what they had heard;
 While through the nations spread the awestruck word
 That wild beasts followed him and licked his hands.
Soon from the sea a noxious birth began;
 Forgotten lands with weedy spires of gold;
 The ground was cleft, and mad auroras rolled
 Down on the quaking citadels of man.
 Then, crushing what he chanced to mould in play,
 The idiot Chaos blew Earth's dust away.
That is the whole sonnet.
The one entitled Nyarlathotep.
I note that he in many—maybe most, and possibly all—places uses what today is called “British” spelling. A hundred years ago it was hardly so cut and try.
And this is not even that old.
Then again, he also writes “shew”, so there is plenty of musty odour about the thing.
Er, I mean odor.
Perhaps he did not smoke enough opium.
Until this morning, I had only read the prose versions of those sonnets.
 
Don't you hate how some people use "UK" always, where "British" etc. are much better?
Laziness. Ugliness.
 
It is bothersome, and not usually done in the States.
I do not know why it is bothersome. I thought it a personal problem of mine.
 
Unnecessary abbreviations are bothersome.
Abbreviations are often a necessary evil, never beautiful.
 
I use few.
Did you see the new queue?
 
OK.
 
2:55 PM
That is not perceived to be an abbreviation.
 
Queue? I see no queue. The crowds are moving along as usual here.
It is an abbreviation.
 
For?
 
All Correct, I believe.
 
Not proven.
And certainly not generally recognized.
And abbreviation is a shortcut used in lieu of a longer form. Nobody but nobody ever says “all correct”.
 
It is still an abbreviation in those respects that matter for what I said.
 
3:00 PM
When I say to increment the PC by one instruction, everyone knows that I have meant to reset your computer’s program counter, so this is a clear abbrevation.
But if people began to forget what PC meant, it would stop being an abbreviation.
In a certain sense.
 
And what sense do you think I meant when I said abbreviations are never beautiful?
 
Can you think of a real one? Don’t use ok.
Go ahead, say that PCs are never beautiful. You will be 100% correct.
Except that PC means nothing more than unshared computer.
In which case you would be misleading.
The first day I started the new $job, I received a definition list of over a 100 initialisms.
It is insidious and maddening.
 
Ridiculous.
All I'm saying is the aesthetic problem comes on top of the epistemic problem.
 
Then I get things that are not on the list. I ask my boss what they mean. And he has no idea. But they are the names of projects that have zillions of people using them. And nobody can expand the initials.
Are you a NASA person or a Nasa person?
Then there is “UTC”, which has no expansion, for which we have the damned French to unthank.
 
Quoi?
 
3:13 PM
We wanted Universal Corrected Time. They wants Temps Corrigé Universel.
Please do not ask why temps is masculine singular. Better to ask why it didn’t lose its s.
> Singapore adopted a conscription model drawing on elements of the Israeli national conscription schemes. This was done with the help of Israeli military advisers, who were closely involved in the establishment of the Singapore armed forces.
I guess Jasper’s Corporal-Klinger ploy didn’t work.
 
Why would temps not be m. sg.?
 
Since we wanted UCT and they wanted TCU, their idea of “compromise” was to invent the nonsensical UTC, which pleases no one.
 
Sounds like the EU.
 
Because that way it does give gross offence to neither party.
That is the exact problem.
 
Offence? Listen to yourself.
 
3:19 PM
What, you prefer to give offense instead? :)
I meant they were avoiding making anybody unhappy by making everyone so.
 
≠ offence
 
My fences are not for gifting.
“It gives gross offence to neither party” = “Doesn’t piss anybody off royally”
 
Just use GMT.
 
That offended the French. I am not kidding.
> In 1911, the French Parliament sulkily abandoned Paris Mean Time and moved in line with the rest of the world. But rather than acknowledge the British source of their new time, legislators simply announced that the new official time would be ‘Paris Mean Time’ . . . retarded by nine minutes and 21 seconds. This neatly avoided mentioning the non-French word ‘Greenwich’.
GMT is offensive to the fucking French. FTN.
 
Retarded, even?
The French are silly patriots.
 
3:24 PM
Yes, it’s retarded. :)
 
But your use of "offensive" I cannot understand.
You are inflating what the word means.
To offend does not mean to cause dislike.
 
A patriot is somebody who says “My country right or wrong”, and is just as wrong as someone who says “My mother drunk or sober”, except that it incites entire populations to committing nonsense.
 
It is charming.
With respect to the French.
They wouldn't be the same without it.
And it is mostly innocent.
 
They need to get used to the novus ordo seculorum, and recognize that they lost long ago.
I am pretty sure you use the offending words differently than I do.
 
They would sooner chew off their own feet.
 
3:30 PM
> The second president of the United States, John Adams, predicted in 1780 that “English will be the most respectable language in the world and the most universally read and spoken in the next century, if not before the end of this one.” It is destined “in the next and succeeding centuries to be more generally the language of the world than Latin was in the last or French is in the present age.”
That really pissed them off.
But Adams was undeniably correct in his prophesy.
From here.
It just took a tad longer than he thought.
 
Talking about silly patriots.
 
Who, Adams? A patriot? Whatever makes you say that? :)
> English had become the first worldwide lingua franca.
We need a better term.
Lingua XXX, not franca.
It pays the Franks too much false credit.
 
Why don't you continue your attempts at social engineering while I get dressed.
 
averts eyes
 
What's a 'thumb rule'? — Mitch yesterday
Am I weird?
wait.. don't answer that.
 
3:35 PM
You gotsta admit, coming up with a substitute term for lingua franca as applied to English is a more on-topic discussion theme than most in ELU chat.
 
Am I weird in thinking 'thumb rule' is weird?
 
A thumb rule is surely something else.
It is not a rule of thumb.
That is NNS talk.
 
Thanks a lot, Robusto. This explains much! I occasionally see or hear sentences using "zero article plus a singular abstract noun" where the use of "a" or "the" seems appropriate and have become really confused. Your answer is a great help! — Fairdinkum 4 mins ago
 
Perhaps a thumb rule is a 12” ruler.
 
Thanks for no reach-around, Fairdinkum.
 
3:37 PM
@tchrist exactly what I thought!
 
There you have it then.
 
@Robusto yeah...thanks a lot.
Oh...reading all of it, it seems sincere.
 
But why not accept or at least upvote?
Praise is nice, but reps are shiny.
 
because he's totally new to the site?
and has no clue?
 
The effect is the same.
 
3:39 PM
and...woke up too early?
and...his mom is drunk or sober.
 
This is the only place I put in work without expectation of even imaginary payment.
 
Oh... can imagine paying out all sorts. like a broken ATM.
or taking a stack of bills and ...how they do that when they let fly a bunch of bills one by one over a bunch of dancers?
...that I saw on TV.
...once.
 
Una regla graduada que mide pulgadas, es decir, una que viene con graduaciones en pulgadas tiene que ser una regla (de) pulgada(s) — o sea, un “thumb rule”. Hence, a 12” ruler.
Or a a giant amongst Lilliputians, no doubt.
 
Hi guys. I need your help. I wrote a motivation letter for the scholarship programme which I want to apply. Since my first language is not English, I need some volunteer whose first language is English to check its grammar. Today is deadline. It's very important for me. Could you help me please?
 
Dudo que esto vaya a salir bien.
 
3:46 PM
@Mitch, can you help me if it is possible?
 
@Mitch Son esos billetes siempre de un solo dólar? No se usan nunca los de $5 or mejor?
¿Pero dónde está ese marqués de Dalí y de Púbol que nos hace tanta falta en estos días nuestros?
 
In your "cessation" and "registration" examples, the omission sounds fine, and I agree that it is probably best characterised as ellipsis. The question is, in which situations is this ellipsis acceptable? Ellipsis like this evokes head-line language, or a cursory style. If the sentence contains elements that are the opposite of such a style, ellipsis is either judged incongruous or not recognised as such. In the original "reduction" example, there may be some elements that seem to clash with the required cursory style; I, for one, find the ellipsis less palatable there than in your examples. — Cerberus 41 secs ago
@Rob I'm not sure how to vote.
You plead a nuanced case, but I'm still not sure about the OP's example.
 
Guys is there volunteer to check grammar of my letter, please ?
 
vote for Carlo
 
votes for Matt
0
Q: English language

WongI would like to know whether 'I park my car 'on the porch' or 'in the porch' is correct?

 
3:52 PM
goes back to drumming :D
 
This question wins our yearly award for "best title", hands down. English language, a brilliant find. But I have an idea for next year's best title...
 
Se cuenta del marqués nombrado que si intentases hablar con él en inglés, cambiaría al francés, y si lo (per-:)siguieses en francés, entonces cambiaría al castellano — y si todavía lo entendieses, ese cambiaría al catalán. ¿Y que haría si hablases también el catalán? Pues en ese caso el pintor se callaría la boca esperando a que lo dejases en paz.
I am utterly astounded. Safari didn’t red-line that, and in fact, found a spelling error, which I corrected. I didn’t know it did simultaneous polyglot spelling correction!
@Cerberus Usage.
 
Cece n’est pas une pipe.
 
It says "French authorities have declared war on the English word "hashtag" in its continuing drive to keep its language as free as possible from English loan words." which sounds incorrect to me.
It should use their continuing and their language not its.
 
3:59 PM
Obviously it is incorrect.
 
Am I correct?
 
It is French.
 
@tchrist @Cerberus @MattЭллен guys, who can help me?
 
prepares to invoke a higher power
@code4eight Yes, in my dialect at least I would say that you are correct. It should be their because the antecedent is authorities.
Where are our custodians?
 
@tchrist thank you.
 
4:02 PM
Cavorting about the vasty deep and leaving us to our own devices, ’twould appear.
 
@Cerberus Pfft. The question title is too wordy. What would be wrong with the simpler English? That says it all, to my way of thinking.
 
@tchrist Ding!
 
Ding dong, dang dung. We want for only deng in English.
And that one we spell funny.
 
@code4eight You are right.
 
@tchrist What are you bitching about? Your typos ride roughshod over English spelling and you don't seem to care much.
 
4:07 PM
@Robusto A close contender!
 
@tchrist Deng rhymes with dung.
 
@Robusto It didn’t correct cece to ceci in French. I am disappoint.
 
U R.
 
@code4eight The writer probably subconsciously shifted to singular because they thought of "France" instead of "French authorities", and possibly also under the influence of singular "hashtag". It is called grammatical or syntactic or morphological attraction.
 
Tough crowd on ELU today. Who do you have to fuck to get an upvote around here?
 
4:09 PM
@Robusto I thought it rhymt with shopping.
 
@tchrist Only for smaller values of shopping.
 
Thanks for your explaination @Cerberus :)
 
De rien.
 
De chien.
@Rob I am weary of that user’s questions, where he asks all these ridiculous super-extra-hyper-technical things that no native speaker every concerns himself with.
And uses terms not one in a hundred knows.
wanders off to attend to the chores in waiting
 
4:25 PM
@tchrist Which user?
 
@Robusto Listevener. Listenever. Whaveter.
 
Oh. I don't keep track, normally.
> With a gun barrel between your teeth, you speak only in vowels.
 
Ooooeoeoo yyyyyeeeoeoeieiie ioiiiiiaaaa
 
Not true.
All the back consonants remain available.
Unless it has gone down your throat. Good luck with that gag reflex.
 
I don't think I want to test the assertion.
 
4:41 PM
@tchrist so ancien regime. hm... did they have one in Spain? when did they go to metric?
@tchrist Oh I woud only ever use dollar bills. Sorta like when you want a reinforced fist, use a pack of nickels because they're cheaper than quarters. Dimes are just wimpy.
 
> Until the ascent of the Bourbon monarchy in Spain in 1700, each of the regions of Spain retained their own system of measurement. The new Bourbon monarchy tried to centralise control and with it the system of measurement. There were debates regarding the desirability of retaining the Castilian units of measure or, in the interests of harmonisation, adopting the French system.
> Although Spain assisted Machain in his meridian survey, the Government feared the French revolutionary movement and reinforced the Castilian units of measure to counter such movements. By 1849 however, it proved difficult to maintain the old system and in that year the metric system became the legal system of measure in Spain.
 
Hmm, my virus protection is telling me that "http://www.googleadservices.com" is a known malware site. Weird.
 
@tchrist you've stretched the bounds of my comprehensibility. are those guys the pictures on Spanish bills?
 
@Mitch No, I am being Dalí-esque in my approach to not talking to people I don’t want to talk to.
@Robusto Ads are mal.
 
Oh, I clicked on the wrong thing. There was a download link, and also an ad with a big DOWNLOAD button. I fucking hate when they do that.
So the thing I thought I was downloading was actually something else.
Fucking advertisers and their bullshit. They should all hang.
3
 
4:46 PM
Hear, hear.
 
Couldn't this be considered an example of a subject predicate? "Her teeth gleemed white" is structurally very similar to "her teeth were white" and "her teeth looked white." — Tobias Patton 10 mins ago
I thought Gleem was a type of toothpaste.
 
Where is Neil Postman when we need him?
 
There.
I don't even know what Tobias is asking.
 
There is a Postman quote about ubiquitous advertising being a cause not for rejoicing but for contempt, but I cannot find it.
 
Jailbreak a phone, go to jail.
New ad slogan for the U.S. Government.
 
4:52 PM
@tchrist That is impressive because done totally without your thinking about it, an interesting design strategy (reched withou some intermediate knowledge phase). iPhone spellcheck changes according to keyboard chosen so it is by choice.
 
@Mitch The would-be Google Translate of that line is unreadably mangled.
And Safari actually did a better job, since it knew how to inflect the irregular.
 
What's the over/under on which year will see competent language translation software?
 
Isn’t it always ten years away?
But both were confused by my pun. No surprise there.
 
@tchrist I thought that was competent speech recognition software.
We're still 10 years away with that.
And will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
 
> Television screens saturated with commercials promote the utopian and childish idea that all problems have fast, simple, and technological solutions. You must banish from your mind the naïve but commonplace notion that commercials are about products. They are about products in the same sense that the story of Jonah is about the anatomy of whales.
 
4:57 PM
I think the progress is pretty steady. even with chinese. usually you at least get the right words (if you get the right encoding) and you just have to read it like a bag of words and make up your own synta.
 
From here.
 
@tchrist Obvious response: it's not about the anatomy of whales? That's what I remember about it. At least from the Pinocchio version.
 
> In 1984, Huxley added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.
 
@ValehHajiyev sorry, we missed that...how long is your letter? just post the text and we'll see.
@tchrist every 17 year old guy is wondering what the hell is wrong with that.
 
In the Huxleyan prophecy, Big Brother does not watch us, by his choice. We watch him, by ours. There is no need for wardens or gates or Ministries of Truth.
When a population becomes distracted by trivia, when cultural life is redefined as a perpetual round of entertainments, when serious public conversation becomes a form of baby-talk, when, in short, a people become an audience and their public business a vaudeville act, then a nation finds itself at risk; a culture-death is a clear possibility.
> Americans no longer talk to each other, they entertain each other. They do not exchange ideas, they exchange images. They do not argue with propositions; they argue with good looks, celebrities and comercials.
> People of a television culture need “plain language” both aurally and visually, and will even go so far as to require it in some circumstances by law. The Gettysburg Address would probably have been largely incomprehensible to a 1985 audience.
Isn’t that something?
 
5:02 PM
@tchrist nobody's worried about the infant mortality rate?
 
I bet it is right, too.
Hence, ELU.
 
@tchrist Americans aren't special in that regard
 
They cannot even understand the Gettysburg Address anymore. Just imagine if the Lincoln–Douglas debates were held today!
 
@tchrist I bet most people didn't understand it when it was first given.
 
You’d lose that bet.
> [It] is not that television is entertaining but that it has made entertainment itself the natural format for the representation of all experience. […] The problem is not that television presents us with entertaining subject matter but that all subject matter is presented as entertaining.
 
5:04 PM
the hoi polloi people were totally uneducated...I take that back..
 
> Television is altering the meaning of 'being informed' by creating a species of information that might properly be called disinformation. Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial information - information that creates the illusion of knowing something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing.
> Our politics, religion, news, athletics, education and commerce have been transformed into congenial adjuncts of show business, largely without protest or even much popular notice. The result is that we are a people on the verge of amusing ourselves to death.
End of rag.
s’amuse
 
@tchrist that's the way -all- news has been. I think it's a testament to modern education that people are much more skeptical of the claims of news.
@tchrist it is funny though.
the overload of information is just giving us a lot more opportunity to hear non-elite voices, which have their place but also are not attempting to be authoritative and so don't have the effort of thought behind them.
that stuff's thirty years old.
 
5:33 PM
@MattЭллен :Hi
@Robusto:Hi
@Mitch:Hi
 
6:06 PM
@tchrist This is a valid and tragic point.
 
6:46 PM
Hi @OliverSalzburg
 
How are you?
 
6:56 PM
@Sudhir I'm well. Thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
8:36 PM
@Cerberus Your flaming radical is at it again.
Except for the fact that there's no subjunctive mood in English. But tags are irrelevant anyway. — John Lawler 50 mins ago
@JohnLawler Perhaps you might someday please explain precisely what you mean by “English does not have a subjunctive mood” by first explaining what a “subjunctive mood” (not to mention a “subjunctive” or a “mood”) is intended to mean or not mean. Otherwise it is impossible to evaluate the truthfulness, let alone the usefulness, of such a controversial statement as you have just made. — tchrist 1 min ago
2
 
 
3 hours later…
11:45 PM
@tchrist I love it.
 

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