English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

3:00 PM

And they will probably push it out to October.

So that's encouraging.

Matt Эллен

yeah

Cerberus

addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/old-default-image-style

KitFox

But then again, this is the same guy who said that we weren't going to make any changes, just add some users.

Except that we'd need to mark certain intervention types as "out-of-school."

Cerberus

@Reg ^.

This is the beauty of FF: there is an add-on for everything.

KitFox

Oh, yeah, and then we'd have to allow multiple interventions of the same type at any given time.

RegDwight ΒВB

3:01 PM

@Cerberus That's the curse of FF.

Cerberus

Now if we all install the World Peace add-on...

@RegDwightΒВB No, blessing!

KitFox

Oh, and allow for a different user to begin interventions for other users.

Matt Эллен

> Thank you. I was surelly also not happy with the new totally no sense black background that made it hard/impossible to see transparent images...

Cerberus

Surelly indeed.

It was just surelly.

Matt Эллен

He can see transparent images?

RegDwight ΒВB

3:02 PM

@Cerberus no. Firebird 0.6 was a blessing. When the whole idea of making a browser that is fast and has no shit was still present. Firefox is not a blessing. It's DIY bloatware.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Partially transparent images, yes.

KitFox

God I hate you, Apple.

2

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВB I like it. It is fast, and it is still fast enough with tons of add-ons. And the add-ons make it perfect.

RegDwight ΒВB

It's still slower than the very first version.

Cerberus

@KitFox You mean Steve Jobs, I hate you, Apple.

Matt Эллен

3:03 PM

@KitFox so only a small few things, should be done in no time /sarcasm

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВB Have you tried a fresh profile?

Otherwise I will hear no complaining.

KitFox

"Do you want iCloud?" *checks no*
"You need an Apple ID to use your iPad." *creates Apple ID*
"Welcome to iCloud!" *throws iPad out Windows*

2

RegDwight ΒВB

Firefox is like those stores that give you a 50% discount but only after secretly doubling the prices first.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Right. I can get that done and the site redesign by August, no problem.

Cerberus

I have just read a test about browser speed. They compared FF to Chrome and other with the same number of tabs and extensions, and I believe FF won, though there was very little difference anyway.

@RegDwightΒВB Poppycock.

RegDwight ΒВB

3:06 PM

@Cerberus not at all. People will always compare the recent version to the previous version, or to some 3.x nonsense. Well duh. Of course every version is much faster when compared with the slowest version ever.

KitFox

OK, I can't think about this properly. I have a list of students, and the user ought to be able to check off the students they want and continue to the next page.

But the list is paged and sortable/filterable.

I don't want to unpage the list because it is usually very long.

But the pager is interfering with my checkboxes.

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВB Look, unless you have compared apples with apples (and I don't mean Apples), how can you even know this?

KitFox

Anybody have any thoughts about that?

Matt Эллен

update a cookie when a check box is check and check the cookie to see what things have been checked?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox You need to persist the stored IDs somewhere. You could write them into a hidden variable that you pass from page to page, or put them in the session

KitFox

3:10 PM

Will that be annoying for the user?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox how will the user know?

KitFox

I mean, if they are flipping through the list and checking boxes? Will that irritate them?

RegDwight ΒВB

@Cerberus I have, in point of fact. My point of reference has always been Firebird.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox you mean, would it be annoying to page through the entire list of students and select them with checkboxes? probably

KitFox

Well, presumably they will be selecting just a few.

Cerberus

3:12 PM

@RegDwightΒВB Can furry canines fly?

KitFox

There is a master checkbox for select all.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightΒВB But Firebird didn't have all the features that Firefox 13 has.

Cerberus

I saw a real fox, by the way.

KitFox

I'm not a canid!

RegDwight ΒВB

Firebird was fast and worked like a charm. Firefox is slow like ass. It drags down my Windows PC, it drags down my wife's netbook, it drags down this Ubuntu machine right now.

Cerberus

3:12 PM

It scurried off into the woods when we were driving by.

RegDwight ΒВB

@MrShinyandNew安宇 ex,act,ly.

Cerberus

@KitFox Not you, honey.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Well, paging through unwanted items is annoying. The best solution is to filter the list first

@RegDwightΒВB So why don't you just use it then?

cornbread ninja

@MetaEd bwa

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I guess you don't want those new features

Matt Эллен

3:13 PM

ugh, this headache is like an ache in my head

3

cornbread ninja

@MetaEd ha

@MattЭллен is it screaming for Excederin?

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВB Have you tried a fresh profile on FF, and have you timed the same action on FB and FF?

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja is that paracetamol? Because it is screaming for that

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I know, but then...I don't know, I just can't figure out what the most natural way to interact with this list would be.

RegDwight ΒВB

@Cerberus I have, even though frankly it shouldn't be my worry that their crap works.

KitFox

3:14 PM

@MattЭллен Yes, and caffeine and aspirin, I think.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен gives you Ibuprofen Been out partying yesterday?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox It depends on your use-case, I guess

MetaEd

@cornbreadninja Mornin!

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВB And what were the results?

RegDwight ΒВB

Anyway, to each his own. You like it, go use it. I don't like it, I don't use it. Except when I must. It's just the next IE6.

cornbread ninja

3:15 PM

@MattЭллен and aspirin, and caffeine.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Thanks! no. it's probably some stress/tiredness headache. stupid life.

RegDwight ΒВB

@Cerberus you can't guess, can you?

Cerberus

Because the strange thing is that all recent tests I saw indicated FF was getting faster and faster.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightΒВB Please. IE 7, 8, and 9 are the next IE6. Firefox is the next Netscape 4.

cornbread ninja

@MetaEd mornin!

Cerberus

3:15 PM

@MattЭллен Uhuh, life sucks.

stamps on life

cornbread ninja

I so should not be in here, so I'll probably be back later. :)

Cerberus

But then there are also the good parts.

@cornbreadninja Hello!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus yeah :) they tend to happen when my head stops hurting

KitFox

You just need a good bleeding.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I see! that would probably be quite helpful

Cerberus

3:17 PM

I see.

KitFox

hands @Matt leeches

I eat these?

sets up buckets

~~om nom nom~~

I mean, bouquets.

3:17 PM

:D

KitFox

@MattЭллен No, no!

Stick them in your armpits.

And one behind each ear.

Matt Эллен

I'll look like some kind of alien!

KitFox

And if that doesn't help, put a couple along your midsection, just below your ribcage.

MetaEd

While you're at it … put a banana in your ear.

KitFox

Trust me. I used to be a neuroscientist.

Matt Эллен

3:18 PM

trusts Kit

trusses Cerberus

Mitch

1

Proto-Indo-European language and culture

Proposed Q&A site for historical linguists as well as those who are interested in reconstruction of Proto-Indo-European language, culture, religion and mythology and relations between branches of Indo-European language family.

Currently in definition.

RegDwight ΒВB

Anyone still needs example questions for ELU Lite? I still have a couple I can't use myself due to the limit.

MetaEd

@KitFox "Trust me. I used to be a policeman." "Trust me. I used to be a day care operator." "Trust me. I used to be a priest."

Cerberus

Hey!

KitFox

@MattЭллен And if that doesn't work, I am fully qualified to do trepanation, so we can let the evil spirits out.

@MetaEd I'm glad someone understands why that is funny.

MetaEd

3:20 PM

@KitFox I, too, have a drill. :-)

Cerberus

@MetaEd I especially love the "I used to be a day care operator". I suggests "but I was forced to give it up after some little incidents".

KitFox

@MetaEd It takes more than a drill!

MetaEd

Not the way I do it.

KitFox

You need a burr attachment, a scalpel, and unless you like things messy, epinephrine.

Plus, some sterile packing peanuts, dental cement, copper wire, soldering iron, and...

RegDwight ΒВB

You can do whatever you are thing of using CSS and clean Markup instead of nested table.

KitFox

3:22 PM

Oh wait. We're not putting in cooling probes, are we?

Mitch

@KitFox OMG you actually know what you're talking about. Everyone back away slowly...

KitFox

But realistically, the pre-op ketamine and atropine mixture that we'll whack @Matt up with will probably take care of his headache without the need for surgical intervention.

Matt Эллен

:D

KitFox

Without the need for it.

Matt Эллен

I am disappoint

oh!

RegDwight ΒВB

3:23 PM

How can there ever be no need for surgical intervention?

Matt Эллен

when everyone is well

RegDwight ΒВB

What is this grammar?

KitFox

@Mitch I used to be a neuroscientist. Of course I know what I'm talking about.

Mitch

slowly comes back but with hat

KitFox

laughs

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:25 PM

@KitFox "used to be a neuroscientist... but then there were a couple little incidents, and well, suffice to say, I'm making iPad apps now"

MetaEd

I want the cooling probe.

RegDwight ΒВB

I still am a used neuroscientist.

KitFox

@MetaEd Well, the one probe I implanted actually killed the monkey.

That was a pretty horrible experience.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox dammit Kit, those monkeys ain't cheap!

Mitch

I don't want the cooling probe.

Matt Эллен

3:26 PM

do you want the warming probe?

Mitch

I think I'll pass on the probes for now.

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 About $5,000 a piece not including the per diems.

That's for B-free monkeys though.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox well, geez. Just get the C- or D- monkeys, no need for that organic, free-range bullshit. This is brain-surgery, not rocket-science!

KitFox

Hahaha.

They are tweaked as all fuck, but a hell of a lot safer than the others.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

mmm tweaked monkeys

when is lunch time?

KitFox

3:30 PM

Oh, right! I've got to get lunch together.

Later!

Matt Эллен

CU

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

don't eat all the monkeys without me

Mitch

3:43 PM

@KitFox when you say 'tweaked'...what are you getting at? drugged up? or just bred for a certain disposition? or bred for certain medical situations like predisposed to have eplipesy?

RegDwight ΒВB

0

A: What is the term for the part of a jingle that states the company name?

I'd like to sugeest "Corporate Jingle". Cant guarantee it's accuracy, but logically it fits.

cries

KitFox

@Mitch They are vaccinated and raised in a less social environment, I think. It seems to make them more jittery, although that might just be that most of the B-free monkeys we had were in the drug experiments.

We got them as babies.

Well, not babies but just prior to adolescence.

bbl

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВB it's OK. it'll all end one day.

RegDwight ΒВB

It better end when the Maya promised it would, or else I will kick their donkeys.

simchona

4:00 PM

0

Q: Pronunication of "Dijkstra"

I am a computer professional. I have heard the pronuciation of the word Dijkstra from various sources as di-kstra diji-kstra dik-stra Which is the correct way of pronouncing it?

Just got reopened by nohat.

RegDwight ΒВB

I knew it would.)))

simchona

Dijkstra

Dijkstra () is a Dutch family name of West Frisian origin that may refer to: * Edsger W. Dijkstra (1930–2002), computer scientist ** Dijkstra's algorithm, his algorithm solving the single-source shortest path problem ** Dijkstra Prize, international annual prize for outstanding papers on computing * Lou Dijkstra (1909-1964), speedskater, father of Sjoukje Dijkstra * Bram Dijkstra (born 1938), professor of English literature and cultural historian * Sjoukje Dijkstra (born 1942), 3x World and Olympic champion figure skater * Pia Dijkstra (born 1954), politician and television presenter * Ri...

Gives IPA. Can we close it again?

Matt Эллен

but it's Dutch IPA

which I guess is nohat's pretty scrawny point

Off topic nao?

RegDwight ΒВB

Let's have some background story first.

5

Q: How can the pronunciation of famous people's names be "too localized"?

How was this question closed as 'too localized'? I asked the same question about Gaudi and Louis Armstrong and got great answers with no votes to close. Has the policy changed & why? How are these Brazilian Portuguese names pronounced in English?

discussion

Oh and I gotta commute!

Latorz.

Matt Эллен

me too bai

MetaEd

4:21 PM

@KitFox metaed.com/scratch-monkey

Mahesh

4:45 PM

hi guyz!. dont laugh, but i have a dispute.

"did you try?" or "did you tried?" which one is correct?

I say its the former, but theres someone who bets on the latter

simchona

@Mahesh Former. Latter is incorrect in any situation

Mahesh

:) thanks.

simchona

You're welcome

KitFox

5:00 PM

@MetaEd raises eyebrow

That's just too ridiculous.

MetaEd

@KitFox To be true?

KitFox

Do you have any idea how impossible it is to implant electrodes in rat brains?

5

@MetaEd Yes.

MetaEd

Contact Eric Postpischil and Laura Creighton.

KitFox

OK.

MetaEd

it was Laura Creighton's software which was abused for the monkey project; she's the closest one to what really happened.

Matt Эллен

5:07 PM

KitFox

I am extremely skeptical @MetaEd.

If you can give me the name of the research who used the driver at the some-other-institution, I would go so far as to contact him or her about it.

After I get my son to sleep.

But it just doesn't compute.

Electrodes don't work like that, and implanted electrodes are extremely rare.

Even if they had implanted electrodes, they aren't left hooked up to a machine 24/7.

And certainly if they had happened to be hooked up at the time, the equipment would have been very nearly adjacent to the monkeys in question, not in some remote room somewhere where no one would have known what was happening.

simchona

0

Q: Diffusing as an adverb

I thought that diffusingly is the adverb of diffusing, but it turns out wrong cause my spell checker in firefox red-underlined diffusingly, so what's the adverb of diffusing? Any other similar words to look out for?

grammar

"are there any other words I should watch out for"

All of them.

Matt Эллен

They are coming for you.

Mitch

maybe we should have a link to yahoo answers?

MetaEd

@KitFox The only public information I know of is the two memos from Eric and Laura. There is always the possibility of error, but they identify the location of the monkey installation as the physiology section of the Department of Medicine at U Toronto.

KitFox

5:16 PM

Nah, you've got a "somebody I forget where" in there.

I mean, I know the other one identifies U of T, but the second one says that the details are wrong.

Mitch

@MattЭллен so pork products are more important than the others?

MetaEd

@KitFox Disagree on the co-location. A VAX-11/780 was the size of 1 or 2 large refrigerators and had special cooling and power requirements. It would have been expensive: would not have been bought just to control some electrodes. This would have been a device in a central machine room used by various researchers. So using it to control a lab experiment would have involved running a cable to the lab to connect to the terminal equipment.

Where the second one refers to "the story has been garbled", it does not mean the first memo.

KitFox

Still and all. You don't hook monkeys up and leave them. There are rules, you know.

MetaEd

Both memos are attempts to set the record straight about an incident which became an urban legend. There are lots of stories about this incident out there.

KitFox

Oh, I understand.

But I worked with monkeys for years. I find the details barely credible.

Matt Эллен

5:21 PM

@Mitch a world without bacon? it would be worse than the apocalypse

MetaEd

The one who might remember names of researchers would be Laura Creighton. Also there is probably a UT historian who has information about the two controversies: the one about the rat experiments and the one about the monkey deaths.

KitFox

Well, I will put it on my to-do list because my curiosity has certainly been piqued.

Mitch

@MattЭллен I understand your anxiety, but surely nutella would come before it on your list.

KitFox

I've heard of "scratch monkey" before, but I had no idea it was supposed to be a real story.

Mitch

nutella, bacon. hope, cash, jobs,...maple syrup, some other stuff, and then nixon.

Matt Эллен

5:24 PM

@Mitch why on earth would Nutella come before bacon? Are you feeling unwell?

Mitch

Philistine. You mean you've never heard of Bob Nutella, the guy who invented go-go music?

KitFox

crosses fingers that son is sleeping

Carlo_R.

@simchona - I have posted my first good comment, but the asker deleted his question. I said in that comment: "diffusely" is the adv. form of "diffuse". What do you mean with "diffusing"? The user answered: oopss... I think you're right. I don't know what's going on my mind just ... .

Why am I right?

MetaEd

@KitFox The first time I heard it was at a technical conference in the 1980's. Believe it was related by Eric P.

KitFox

I suppose it was Canada.

And ethical standards were different in the 80s.

Carlo_R.

5:30 PM

@KitFox - Exscuse me, what is an 'ethical standard'?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Carlo_R something you won't find around here.

simchona

@Carlo_R Standard of ethics

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox allegedly Canada.

simchona

@Carlo_R "Diffusingly" is found in several papers, so it wasn't wrong

Cerberus

unfolds standards

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:31 PM

@Cerberus Those are all unethical! I "protest"

Cerberus

Get your standards here! Come to my booth, first customer gets an extra leg, fully inflatable!

3

simchona

@Carlo_R Just not common, I think

Carlo_R.

Thank you everyone! Especially to @simchona

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 How are they unethical?

Carlo_R.

AFK BBL

Cerberus

5:32 PM

They are made of first-class plastic.

simchona

I don't know why I'm the new favorite.

But cool.

Cerberus

Hehe.

Noted.

It's what you do.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus am I first?

Cerberus

Congratulations!!!

Matt Эллен

What standards do you have on offer?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:35 PM

@Cerberus They're not free-range, fair-trade, organic, all-natural, conflict-free standards.

Matt Эллен

damn right they're not conflict free! I intend to fight with mine

KitFox

Gah. Baby is making me crazy.

Matt Эллен

is he doing that thing where he taps you on one shoulder and stands behind the other?

I used to do that, it annoyed lots of people

KitFox

He's doing that thing where he is not napping.

He needs to nap so I can get this little tiny bit of work done.

MetaEd

@KitFox Found and added an article about the end of UT primate experimentation. The article names George Harapa and quotes him. He was apparently a University veterinarian as far back as 1977. So he might well be a good contact.

KitFox

5:37 PM

Of course, the dump truck dumping loads of dirt next door isn't really helping.

Matt Эллен

indeed, noisy and distracting

KitFox

@MetaEd Excellent. That is the perfect person to ask, thank you.

MetaEd

let me push that article out where you can find it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

blog.makezine.com/2010/02/09/…

KitFox

At least, if the vets oversee the animals like they did at my institution.

MetaEd

5:38 PM

Okay try that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> Current University of Toronto sysadmins have expressed skepticism. For one thing, in almost all versions of the story, including the ostensibly documented one in the Jargon File, the computer is a VAX; at the time a VAX would have been a very unusual platform for this kind of data acquisition (they used PDP-11s).

> The Toronto zoology department has never been licensed to work with primates; the only section of the university that could have done experiments of this nature was the School of Medicine. Investigation continues

MetaEd

(Same link as before; has the article attached)

Cerberus

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus been shopping?

Cerberus

The dolls costs only an additional € 999,99.

Is this up to your standard?

KitFox

5:39 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 The memo says that it was in fact the School of Medicine.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus that's not really my style. do you have any pre-enlightenment dictatorial standards?

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Just rummaging through my wares.

MetaEd

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes ... however the memos agree that the zoology department was not the one doing the primate brain research. One of the memos points to the School of Medicine.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Hmm let me see...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd I'm still skeptical

KitFox

5:40 PM

It would be difficult indeed to get permission to use monkeys for anything other than medical studies.

MetaEd

@MrShinyandNew安宇 and in fact the article you quote goes on to say "the only section of the university that could have done experiments of this nature was the School of Medicine".

Cerberus

This one's as good as new! Now let me find a fitting standard...

Matt Эллен

looks like it was used for toilet paper

KitFox

Damn it, baby, go to sleep!

bangs on wall

Mommy is trying to work here!

Cerberus

MetaEd

5:42 PM

@KitFox I would love to know what you find out if you contact the vet.

Cerberus

This one is suggested to be from the 17th century.

Parts may have been restored.

You pay € 99,99 extra for the child-slave.

Matt Эллен

excellent! I'll take it!

KitFox

@MetaEd Do you suppose he's tired of talking about it?

Cerberus

I hope you will have a satisfying experience with it!

Matt Эллен

Me too. Thanks!

Cerberus

5:44 PM

If you post a picture of the standard in front of your house and like us on Facebook, you may get yet more goodies.

Mitch

@simchona You're the new Jasper to Carlo. but now you can't say anything that is not superlatively positive.

Cerberus

Like this:

Also for goyim!

It's only 2 metres tall so it should fit in your sitting room.

Mitch

19 mins ago, by Carlo_R.

Why am I right?

Cerberus

@Mitch And Carlo is the new Jasper to Sim.

simchona

@Cerberus Oh, dear.

Matt Эллен

5:47 PM

bbl eating

simchona

He already asked for pictures

Cerberus

Haha seriously??

Tell him your boyfriend won't allow it.

simchona

A long, long way back.

Cerberus

Wow.

MetaEd

@KitFox I haven't seen anything public to indicate that he's ever talked about it.

I don't even know if he was involved in that particular project; surely there were more than one vet working at UT at the time.

KitFox

5:50 PM

True, but he had charge of the monkeys.

I think.

MetaEd

There's nothing to connect him with the story except that he was involved with primates at UT over that time period. Which I think makes him a great independent witness.

KitFox

And as such, he would know if the monkeys were hooked 24/7 to computers, etc.

MetaEd

But then again there might have been a different vet assigned to monitor that project. Still, you'd think he would have heard about this disaster.

So I'm pretty happy to have come across his name.

KitFox

I hope I don't come across as a jackass.

MetaEd

Better you than me. I know a lot about the computing equipment of the period but nothing about medical experiments.

I wouldn't even know what to ask.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:53 PM

I'm still not convinced this story even happened.

Too many details don't add up

KitFox

What's a good general link to the story? Wiki?

Cerberus

What happened?

MetaEd

Scratch monkey

A Scratch Monkey is a term used in hacker jargon, as in "Before testing or reconfiguring, always mount a scratch monkey", a proverb used to advise caution when dealing with irreplaceable data or devices. It is used to refer to any temporary configuration changes to a computer during any risky operation which include a replacement for some precious resource or data that might otherwise be destroyed. The meaning is based upon the use in the 1980s of a scratch tape, or other storage device which was available for temporary use, to temporarily store a copy of valuable data or provide extra sto...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

dammit MetaEd beat me to it

MetaEd

That's not a GOOD link to it

but it's a link

simchona

5:55 PM

@Cerberus chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/4205558#4205558

MetaEd

The story became infamous in hacker circles because of the "scratch monkey" tagline.

Cerberus

@simchona Oh, dear.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

This story has all the hallmarks of being an urban legend. Conflicting details. Humorous moral. No primary sources. Distant past. Also, Distant location: University of Toronto is plausible but unverifiable for most Americans.

simchona

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Toronto doesn't exist. It's part of Atlantis. Right?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@simchona may as well be

simchona

5:57 PM

I knew it!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That would explain our mayor, he resembles certain aquatic animals

MetaEd

@MrShinyandNew安宇 The story is an urban legend. However in this case the legend apparently has a real origin. And Laura Creighton is a primary source.

simchona

-1

Q: Meaning of "far and few between" in this context

I came across the following sentence in "The Carpetbagger Report:" The administration published this afternoon a newly released, and surprisingly short, declassified summary of the key judgments of the National Intelligence Estimate on al Qaeda. The document is online for all to see. ...