@Monica Yes, I know what you mean. I have a son who is completely different from me in every way. And I am proud of everything he achieves. But some part of me is even prouder if he achieves something that I could have achieved when I was young.

I feel the same about my sister. She can draw while I can't.

@Meysam I am not a good swimmer, and I don't really like swimming pools; but thanks for the suggestion anyway. It was a good one.

@Monica Is she similar to you in other ways?

and she plays the piano better than I do. I do feel proud. Sometimes I feel like she is my daughter. Maybe because she's 16.

Yes, she is.

I am the youngest of three children. I often wonder what it would have been like to have a younger brother or sister.

And I always wanted to have a brother.

So you just have one sister?

Oh, and she plays chess well. I taught her how to play it. I used to win all the time. :D

yes, only one.

@Monica I havent seen you before. Are you new in here?

No, I am not.

I'm sure that you two have both been in here at the same time, in the past.

yes, most of the time.

So, that should be because of your avatar that I think you are new

Oh, the avatar is definitely new :-)

Yes, I changed my avatar yesterday.

I need to take a better photo of myself, and change my avatar too. I don't like this one very much.

You have kind eyes.

@DavidWallace I saw you had a new one a few days ago. Why didn't you stick to that?

I remember you had another picture.

Oh thank you, Monica. It's very sweet of you to say so.

But it was small.

So your picture is nice. Don't worry.

I didn't stick to the new one, because I liked it even less than this one. I hate most photographs of myself.

The light always seems wrong, or something.

It's because I'm tall, I think. So the camera is usually some distance below my face; whereas most photographs of people work better if the camera is higher than their face.

So, Meysam, when will you change your avatar to a REAL photo of yourself?

I have to go.

@DavidWallace I don't think I will ever do that. I like this old guy very much. He gives me hope

Well, it was really lovely talking to you again, Monica.

Thanks. The same to you.

See you

I hope we'll meet here again soon. Bye for now.

@Meysam You did tell me who he was, and I have forgotten.

He is an old Sheikh who went to bazaar an hour ago and has not returned back since then

I don't think you mean "an hour ago". So do you mean that he has probably been abducted?

Yes, I really meant "an hour ago". My guess is he has been abducted. Everybody is desperately looking for him but still no clue as to his whereabouts

Is he Iranian?

@DavidWallace He is someone beyond borders

So, how did you come to learn about him?

I know him from the very moment I created him. He lives in one of the imaginary worlds of mine.

Oh. When you first described him to me, I assumed that he was a real person. I didn't understand that you are someone who creates fictional disappearing sheikhs. You are indeed a man full of surprises.

"fictional disappearing sheikhs"! not all of them disappear though. Some of them are appearing indeed.

Ok I have to go. Later

OK, bye. It was nice that you came by.

I must go to bed anyway. I hope I don't dream of sheikhs who vanish at the bazaar.

@tchrist It was a first thought, before doing any research. I've since explored it further, as my successive dialogue with Cerberus should indicate.

Huh what?

Oh, that.

@Tchrist: As David said, it must be a form of ce.

Ce(t/tte) comes from ecce + iste/istum/etc.

And the TLF gives cestui (among many other forms), so that's what it must be.

@Reg: I distinctly remember trying to translate this into German when I worked for the German bank. I think I said, Man kann mehr Fliegen mit Honig als mit Essig fangen. They puzzled to understand the point I was making. It was at that point I realized I didn't want to work for the Germans anymore.

Is there an equivalent expression in German? Perhaps they were just putting me on.

Maybe my German phrasing just sucked.

“On the cruelty of really teaching computing science”. Gosh, I do so love PDF.

@Cerberus The man has a remarkably clear bookhand. But I wonder about his F and f: are those the way they teach you to make those in Dutchland, or is it a personal affectation?

His lowercase f has quite a shepherd’s hook, and a descender.

His uppercase F is symmetric across the stem, with both pieces crossing to the left as well as to the right.

There’s a transcription of Dijkstra’s longhand manuscript referenced above into greppable HTML text here. But you lose his handwriting.

Of course he can’t find pictures of cocks: he has safe-search turned on.

Hello

Hello.

You are becoming quite a regular visitor.

Indeed :)

I am not complaining! :-)

:D

Are you excited about going to Geneva?

Good to know that

And how!

days seem so long and boring. I can hardly wait to relocate there.

I have never been abroad yet.

Really?

Really.

I think travelling can be a wonderful experience.

Is there something specific you'll be doing in Geneva?

It's my dream to become an art historian. So I am going to school again.

Wow. That is fantastic.

:)

I envy people who are motivated enough to go about chasing their dreams.

English major is very popular here, but it was not exactly what I really needed.

Everyone should do that.

Sometimes, reality gets in the way of dreams.

Chase your dreams and goal until you get what you want.

hmmm, yes. Unfortunately.

And to do that, you have to be certain of what you want. But before you become certain, life keeps happening.

Do you live in a big city, in Russia?

I don't live in Russia.

But in Georgia if you have heard :D

Oh, sorry, I thought you did.

Of course I've heard of Georgia.

By the way, where is our friend from Russia?

I guess I just figured that because you speak Russian, it must be where you are from.

Do you mean RegDwight?

He kind of flits in and out a bit.

I see

when I mention that I am from Georgia, in chat rooms most Americans think that I mean the state not the country.

He puts a lot of effort into moderating this site. Then occasionally, he comes in here to calm himself down, and stays for a while.

@Monica Oh, well I knew that you are not American.

They probably didn't pay attention to mistakes.

And even if I didn't know whether you were American, I have no reason to assume that you would mean the state.

Err, you don't make very many mistakes.

I don't think you've made any in the last half hour. Whereas I have made two minor grammatical errors; and I am a native speaker.

why no reason?

how many administrators are there on this site?

@Monica Well, this chat room is accessible from everywhere in the world, right? I have no reason to think that someone is talking about an American state, when they could be talking about an entire country. I'm not particularly focussed on America; I guess because I live a long way away from there.

ah, I see

@Monica There are lots of administrators. I have no idea how many. I don't think any of them are currently here in this room.

I don't know what Georgia is like. I have never been anywhere in the former Soviet Union.

I always wondered how do people become site administrators.

Not a big loss for you.

Oh, well they are Stack Exchange employees. Every now and then, Stack Exchange advertise jobs.

It's like having a job.

Why is it no loss for me never to have been to any Soviet country? I'm sure it would be very interesting, and I would learn a lot.

I don't think so.

@Monica You of course have to say you’re from the country of Georgia, qualifying it appropriately. That is no different from someone in Virginia referring to Washington State, or talking about New York City. Or Mexico City.

Or New York State.

It is absolutely different. And she "has to" do no such thing.

Wah wah.

No, it is quite the same.

If you are using a word that normally means something different, you have to qualify it or be misunderstood.

If there were a country somewhere in the world that had a state called America, would you go round telling people that you are from "America, the country"? I think not.

As she has just explained.

When words have more than one meaning, to use its uncommon meaning in an unqualified way is to court, nay to invite, misunderstanding.

I never thought I would be misunderstood.

But you were, right?

Uncommon to whom? I talk about countries far, far more than I talk about American states. If someone says "Georgia" to me, it is natural for me to think of the country.

Because I was sure that native speakers would guess which Georgia I meant

Why would they think that?

It is abnormal.

It seems to me that you are using the word "abnormal" to mean "non-American", and I find that quite objectionable.

I find your use of American to mean abnormal to be quite objectionable.

Flaggable, in fact.

I thought my English would be a hint. I did take the misunderstanding as a compliment sometimes.

Less than 5% of the world's population are American.

On the Internet, no one can tell you are a dog.

David, you are being words that I am not allowed to type here.

You are certainly being completely unreasonable.

And I wish you would stop.

You are starting to sound mean.

Your anti-American bashing is something you can kindly take elsewhere.

WJW

Hey @Mitch, did you know that Monica is from Georgia?

She is.

I had no idea.

:D

Which one?

Well, now you know.

SEE!!!!!?!?!

Is she Geordie?

Exactly. Not making an assumption.

I rest my case.

Are we all trolls?

David is being his typical anti-American self.

I have a European background, so I am not really from georgia

Neither are most Georgians these days.

Excuse me? You were the one who came here and started using the word "normally" to mean "American". How DARE you accuse me of a prejudice! It is you who are being obnoxious.

Hardly.

@tchrist You're kidding, right?

@DavidWallace he's drawing you out.

I feel like what is going now is my fault

It is perfectly normal for Americans who learn that someone is from Georgia to assume they mean the southern state.

@Monica Please don't.

We are not talking specifically about Americans. We are talking about people on the internet, in general.

Go talk to those people, then.

@tchrist it all depends on context. To assume the context of all American listeners is... presumptuous.

@tchrist I was talking to one such. You came along and interrupted, spouting your Americo-centric nonsense.

It is not abnormal for an American to think someone from Georgia is from America.

It is the default context.

It's not my fault that Georgia is not as famous as the US state

Just always say "the country of" and you will be fine.

Just like people say New York City vs New York State.

Or who say Mexico City.

@Monica Please forgive me for responding to tchrist, rather than ignoring him. You said I wouldn't find the former Soviet Union interesting or educational, and I don't agree. Any country that's different from my own will teach me something about life and about people.

That way you are never going to confuse anyone.

There are so many places that I would like to travel too, but it's not always easy to do everything one would like to do.

You probably shouldn’t say you are from Iberia, either, and for the same reason.

Good day.

Hi, @Mahnax.

@DavidWallace Hello. How are things?

Still much as they were the last time you asked. How about yourself?

Things are going well for me. I'm going out in a few minutes to buy some clothing for work.

@Monica What you should learn from this is that at least one American (OK almost all Americans, including myself) without any other context, would interpret Georgia to mean the US state rather than the former, and non-Americans would not. So that if talking to an American (if you happen to know that) say 'Georgia the country, not the state' but for pretty much the rest of the world say 'Georgia' (for where you come from). For the US state, do it the other way.

You know, I always hated the soviet union. It destroyed my grandmother's family by sending her father to a Stalin's camp. My great-granfather on my mother's side was sentenced to be shot. He was a priest.

That's why I still hate

Oh, that sounds terrible.

@Monica That is horribly sad. I am very sorry for you. Your hate makes sense.

@Mitch Many Canadians too, eh?

Is that part of the reason why you have decided to go to Switzerland to study?

I work with someone from the ex-Soviet Union. He has really incredibly miserable stories to tell of the whole experience.

@tchrist probably.

> The term Caucasian Iberia (or Eastern Iberia) is used to distinguish it from the Iberian Peninsula, where the present day countries of Spain, Portugal and Andorra are located.

And Gibraltar. :)

Not to study only, but to live and enjoy peaceful life.

Of course.

And I'm sure it's an excellent choice.

:)

Not for me.

I always wanted to live in the US.

Why Switzerland in particular? Do you know it already?