English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

8:00 PM

I mean, seriously, if that's what you thought the site would be, I understand why you closed it in the first place. And I can't imagine the value of one awful non-native speaker correcting another one's English. — Robusto 33 secs ago

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It also doesn't mean that phrase was a snowclone.

Cerberus

@GraceNote That is a close call in this case, but I'd vote for the former.

Grace Note

@Cerberus Then "Hohum" wouldn't have been a word.

Robusto

Don't look now, but @Cerberus's "juweller" isn't a word either, at least not in English.

Anyway, it looks like RC seriously misinterpreted the intent of ELL. It's like he wants it to be awful.

Cerberus

@GraceNote Well, it did start with h-, and it was your first contribution to the conversation, so I figured it must mean something like hi or hello.

Robusto

All the non-pineapples knew it was kind of a yawn, not a hello.

Grace Note

8:04 PM

It was indeed closer to a yawn than a greeting.

Cerberus

@Robusto grumbles

If we can have traveller, why not juweller?

Robusto

Because there is no u in jeweller.

Cerberus

I didn't know it was non-u.

Robusto

I am closing your ignorance as Gen Ref.

Cerberus

I suppose it makes sense, what with the nouveau-riche and all.

closed

can't talk

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:06 PM

> Bell Samsung Galaxy Nexus Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich WiFi Mobile Cellular Phone (HSI925BR) $0 Save $649.95 off our regular price of $649.95

Cerberus

Haha.

Marketing people are the lowest of the low.

pdawereld.nl/catalogus/apple/apple-iphone-5/…

Grace Note

@Robusto There's a fair amount of concern rising from "This site proposal caters to the crowd of questions the users on EL&U do not want to allow on their site.", "The EL&U site is where all the experts of the language reside.", and consequently "If the expert users of EL&U do not want to see these questions then it is unlikely they would want to participate on another site dedicated to said questions." This is sort of a brief logical construct depicting part of that concern.

Cerberus

But look at this price.

Grace Note

Robert's probably working up a more eloquent explanation of it, though, in the comments.

Cerberus

Same phone at a different shop.

That's € 370 less.

JSBձոգչ

8:09 PM

holy cow those things are expensive in europe

Cerberus

It is the 64GB model.

Apple charges you a couple hundred extra for that too, I believe.

What does it cost in America?

Grace Note

I don't think it broke 4 figures.

JSBձոգչ

from $399, sez the apple site

Grace Note

I know at launch-ish it was available on a good sale cut down to $199.99 USD

JSBձոգչ

that's probably with a carrier plan, though

Cerberus

8:11 PM

That must be with a very expensive monthly plan, so that you pay € 2000 over 2 years.

I pay € 14 monthly.

@GraceNote If you pay € 50 a month over two years, that's € 1200.

So € 1400 total.

Grace Note

@Cerberus I don't think I pay remotely that much per month

Cerberus

So a price with a plan means nothing unless you include the cost of the plan.

@GraceNote But you would if you had got a cheap Iphone with it...

Grace Note

But I don't have an iPhone, I have a much cheaper planned phone.

Cerberus

Our mobile market is fucked up, it is an oligopoly. But, no offence, your market is way more fucked up even.

Grace Note

It is pretty stupid at times, yeah

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:14 PM

@Cerberus Don't I know it. I'm shopping for unlocked, < $300 Android 4 phones right now. There is basically nothing to choose from in Canada.

Cerberus

I think perhaps our governments should nationalise the networks, leave the service operators/carriers to deal with customers.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's slightly better in the US, because some models are priced more competitively there. But still not much better.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Buy it abroad? Mah, we've had this discussion before.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I might be able to buy from the US. Buying it from Europe won't help and my boss prob won't approve it.

Cerberus

So whom are those phones for?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:15 PM

@Cerberus developers/testers

Cerberus

Ah.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I need at least 3 phones, different models

running ICS

non-Samsung

Cerberus

Have you considered the Acer Liquid Gallant? What do you think? It's relatively cheap, but it looks very good for the price.

€ 180 here, ICS, 4.3ish screen.

Robusto

@GraceNote Well, he's got it all wrong then. Just because we don't want children present at adult venues doesn't mean we hate children or don't wish to help them.

Cerberus

Slow CPU and little memory, of course.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:16 PM

@Cerberus As a user I might consider it. For testing, it probably represents approx zero% of the market.

Cerberus

Well, the market is still on GB...

So why ICS?

Grace Note

@Robusto Less "got it all wrong", more "shouldn't have to worry about this".

Robusto

@GraceNote If he thought he had to worry about it then he got it all wrong.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus GB is flat now, and besides, we have some GB phones. ICS is where the growth is, and we have no ICS phones (unless I flash my GB nexus S to ICS, but then I have no GB phone)

Grace Note

I supposed framed that way, then yes.

Cerberus

8:18 PM

@GraceNote A large number would like to participate in such a site and answer ELL questions, like myself. It's just the whiners that you hear: the majority may actually like such questions.

Robusto

0

Q: Does "I am hungry sad" mean " I am sad because I am hungry"?

Let's assume that Tom and Jane are talking. When Tom says " I am hungry sad" to Jane, does Jane understand that Tom is sad because he is hungry? Otherwise, is it right to say " I am hungry to be sad"?

grammar

See? This is what should be on ELL. I would help that person on ELL, but here I just wish he would go away.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Flat?

But, sure get ICS phones.

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Isn't JB out already?

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So how about a GN, an S2, and ehm an HTC something? One X?

Oh, you said non-Samsung.

@Robusto Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Yes, but hardly any phones have it.

Cerberus

8:20 PM

They probably already have JB phones? Mr S has his own Galaxy Nexus with JB.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Many GB phones are upgrading to ICS. Most new devices are shipping with ICS. GB is not growing, it is flat or shrinking. ICS is growing fast.

Cerberus

By the way, I just got the 4.1.2 update. I still need to check my applications for compatibility first.

Robusto

BTW, we are pretty good at telling when someone is a non-native speaker and when they are just poor at English for other reasons.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, OK. But you will probably still want GB compatibility too, right?

Grace Note

@Cerberus Mmhmm.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:21 PM

@Cerberus Well, I have my personal GN which I reluctantly use for testing. And my personal Nexus S which I slightly less-reluctantly also use for testing. Another dev has the S2, and the QA have the Galaxy S (2.3) and the Galaxy 551 (2.2), and the Motorola Atrix (2.2 for now, hopefully soon updated to 2.3)

Cerberus

Ah OK.

So get a Sony Experia and an HTC One something.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes. I can test 2.3, 4.0, and 4.1 on my Nexus S, and others have some 2.3 devices too.

Cerberus

There must be several that run ICS now.

Maybe a Motorola with ICS.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Most phones that run ICS are more than my boss wants to pay, or aren't available without a contract at any price.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:23 PM

It's fucking annoying.

Cerberus

Let me see.

You could buy them second hand.

If you buy with warranty, you should be fairly safe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That's problematic from the business's perspective

Cerberus

Why?

You factory-reset them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

accounting bullshit

Cerberus

Seriously?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:24 PM

It's not a REAL problem, it's an imaginary problem, but it's a real-ish problem.

My boss insists on transactions with proper receipts and blah blah blah anyway, whatever. It's his money, his dev time wasted tracking it all down his way.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 tweakers.net/categorie/215/mobiele-telefoons/producten/…

These phones ship with ICS and are available to buy here.

Sorted by price.

Robusto

@Cerberus My Droid Razr runs ICS.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yes, we've already established that your phone market runs more like a proper market.

Cerberus

@Robusto Yeah, like that.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You could check which of those phones you can buy in Canada.

Or look on Amazon.ca.

Robusto

They're only letting us have 4.0.4 already. We get updates very slowly.

Cerberus

8:28 PM

Don't worry, I hardly noticed any different between .0 and .1.

And now I'm letting the .1.2 update sit and wait, harr harr.

It's staring at me from the notification tray.

I must say the start-up animation in ICS is a bit kitsch.

Robusto

0

Q: Does "I am cold naked." mean " I am cold because I am naked"?

Let's assume that Tom and Jane are talking. When Tom says " I am cold naked" to Jane, Does Jane understand that Tome is cold because he is naked? Otherwise, Is it right to say " I am cold to be naked."? Please, give me the answer.

grammar

The new Nortonn S?

Cerberus

I love this conversation.

Robusto

Mama told me there'd be days like this ...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, finding phone models that have ICS is not the problem. It's finding phone models that can be actually purchased without entering into a contract.

Mitch

@Robusto there is so much fun here

Robusto

8:41 PM

Cold open

A cold open (also called a teaser) in a television program or movie is the technique of jumping directly into a story at the beginning or opening of the show, before the title sequence or opening credits are shown. On television this is often done on the theory that involving the audience in the plot as soon as possible will reduce the likelihood of their switching away from a show during the opening commercial. In some movies the title card does not appear until the end. In such cases one cannot refer to the entire movie as the "opening"; the term "cold open" in these instances refers t...

Cf.

No "cold naked" though ...

Matt Эллен

I am hot naked

5

Mitch

probably just doesn't get the etiquette. His/her first question of almost identical structure was closed, so they tried again. (i.e. only looks like NS superficially in a first couple questions.

but even better:

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So can you order from Amazon.com?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus phones? dunno. Probably

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It says the Xperia Arc is upgradable to 4.0, and it's not that expensive.

Robusto

8:42 PM

@MattЭллен Well, no wonder you took your clothes off. You were too hot! Now if only we could get hot chicks to follow suit.

Mitch

Where did this sentence occur? Was somebody actually speaking or did you read it somewhere? It sounds like it may be from a bad translation of a conversation. — Zairja 26 mins ago

Matt Эллен

:D

Mitch

"Where did this sentence occur? Was somebody actually speaking or did you read it somewhere? It sounds like it may be from a bad translation of a conversation." — Carlo_R. 18 mins ago

Matt Эллен

??

one can upvote a comment

Robusto

And if Carlo disses you like that ... wow.

Cerberus

8:43 PM

Haha.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

lol

Cerberus

He is using quotation marks.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yeah our user-agent stats suggest the Arc is very popular for some reason.

Robusto

박용현 has been sent back to Cho Sen.

Mitch

@Cerberus That's what got me curious.

Cerberus

8:43 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 amazon.com/Sony-Ericsson-Xperia-LT18a-Display--U-S/dp/…

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 amazon.com/Sony-Xperia-MT25i-White-International/dp/B008N7PNSQ/…

Shipped with ICS, and cheaper.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Worth considering.

Cerberus

@Mitch Well searched. And found.

Mitch

@Cerberus imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Might be able to get them shipped to our florida office, and then smuggled across the border by an unwitting mule.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Anyway, I was just checking out some of the phones from that Dutch list on Amazon.com.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ama.com won't ship to CA?

That must be annoying.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:46 PM

@Cerberus Well, they don't ship everything.

Cerberus

European Amazons usually ship across the continent, luckily.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Eg they won't ship lego.

Cerberus

No, not everything.

No lego??

Why the heck not?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The only way to know is to try to complete an order.

@Cerberus probably some agreement they have with Lego corp.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, that is the most annoying thing about Amazon.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:47 PM

It's annoying as hell, because Lego is cheaper in the US than anywhere.

RegDwighт

@simchona wait, what?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And not only is it cheaper, but it goes on sale more.

RegDwighт

God this is confusing.

Cerberus

I got some credit on Amazon.com once. It can't be transferred to Amazon.de or .co.uk or .fr; and Amazon.com will hardly ship anything to me!

There are some international and British shops that are active on Amazon.com. But few.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

anyway, time for me to go.

bye folks.

Cerberus

8:53 PM

Bye!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 By the way, when you come back, I could use some advice.

Grace Note

Take care!

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How do I convince my uncle to buy an Android phone (and not Apple)? And what models do I recommend?

He says he only wants to browse the web and send e-mails, but you know what they're like.

So I need a few good arguments from an independent expert such as yourself for Android and against Apple.

His friend told him Android was crap and Apple was where it's add.

I don't know how much money is a concern for him, he was vague about that.

Grace Note

@Cerberus S3 comes in Blue. No Apple phone comes in Blue. Case closed.

Cerberus

@GraceNote Haha, well.

I'm not sure whether blue is at the top of his list...but why not?

Robusto

I am out. Latour.

Grace Note

8:58 PM

Enjoy!

Cerberus

Bye, Foucault.

cornbread ninja

googleresearch.blogspot.com/2012/10/ngram-viewer-20.html

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja Nice!

> Now, for instance, you can compare the verb and noun forms of “cheer” to see how the frequencies have converged over time:

But this sounds like they promise more than they can make good.

Matt Эллен

how so?

Cerberus

You can't automatically determine parts of speech.

Matt Эллен

9:07 PM

you can

so can i

Cerberus

With some words, you may get a fairly workable approximation. With others, you can't.

Matt Эллен

maybe they've had millions of humans go through all the books and mark them up

Cerberus

Of course.

WTF, you can't see the words in context??

Matt Эллен

yeah, that's annoying.

Cerberus

That is perhaps the most important part of Ngrams.

Jesus Christ.

Matt Эллен

9:10 PM

also it's telling me to come back alter

Cerberus

Thank God the old version still works.

@MattЭллен What?

Where?

Matt Эллен

I ran bats _DET_ _NOUN_, bats _ADP_ _NOUN_ and I got...

oh, ok, it's coming back now

it was saying something like "please try again later"

Cerberus

Oh, weird.

So it is impossible to check their PoS recognition.

Matt Эллен

indeed. that's quite unfair

@Cerberus :D

9:18 PM

Haha.

noice.

a message we can all relate to. I know that's how I hold onto my Empire

Cerberus

They called it pacifying.

Their verb paco, "to pacify", basically meant to subjugate or conquer.

Matt Эллен

!!

Cerberus

9:20 PM

Yes.

Matt Эллен

conquering children sounds... wrong

Cerberus

Hehe.

And stuffing your object into chilren's mouths does not?

cornbread ninja

"Religion is like a penis . . ."

Matt Эллен

I do no such thing!

@cornbreadninja LOL

a penis for the masses

cornbread ninja

catholic masses?

dreams of penises

2

Matt Эллен

9:22 PM

that would have been a very different sitcom :D

cornbread ninja

I Dream of Penis?

Cerberus

Haha.

Matt Эллен

:D

time to be subjugated by sleep. I wonder what I will dream of

cornbread ninja

:D

I hope they aren't big enough to hurt you.

So, uh, how 'bout those Romans?

Cerberus

Good night!

cornbread ninja

9:29 PM

Good night to you!

I shall commute.

Cerberus

That was to Matt...

Oh ok, bon voyage!

cornbread ninja

@Cerberus sorry!

Cerberus

No need to say sorry!

cornbread ninja

._.

Cerberus

I apologise for having given you the appearance that it might be necessary!

cornbread ninja

9:30 PM

Aw, shucks!

Cerberus

Hehe.

cornbread ninja

:D

le turs.

Cerberus

Le quoi?

Marthaª

10:08 PM

The apocalypse must be nigh: Yoichi-san has answered a question.

4

0

A: Is “the girls are want to gossip” correct?

Isn't this typo of 'The girls in office are wont to gossip."? “Genius English Japanese Dictionary” at hand defines “wont” as (1) adjective meaning ‘accustomed to’ and (2) noun meaning ‘habit’ and ‘custom.’ Thus I interpret the expression, ‘The girl in office are wont gossip” is similar to “The g...

David Wallace

@Marthaª It's a shame he didn't read the existing answers first.

Marthaª

@DavidWallace Well, yeah, but I guess when the 4 horsemen are just over the horizon, you get too flustered to read stuff.

David Wallace

Are they? I didn't see them.

I guess because they were OVER the horizon, as opposed to this side of it.

Marthaª

@DavidWallace Yoichi has answered a question, therefore they must be.

David Wallace

:-)

This is the second time in the last few days we've discussed Yoichi's question:answer ratio here.

But I think it's part of the idea of the SE sites - people start out by asking questions more than providing answers, and if the site is doing its job, they gradually move towards providing answers more than asking questions.

user19161

10:58 PM

Just lost 10 due to user removed.

user19161

@cornbreadninja You can eat some from bulls in some places I think, not that I would try.

user19161

Hey @kit! So did anything happen that day you said you were not properly dressed?

user19161

Guys, this is my report for Ubuntu 12.10. The colours look better than 12.04. End of report.