English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

4:00 PM

@Noah stackexchange.com/users/1234954/noah?tab=reputation

I don't see it...

What did it happen, and how much?

It could be due to some user's account being deleted.

Matt Эллен

@Noah Reg has been deleting questions recently, also Nortonn S questions have been getting the boot. if you've answered questions that have been deleted then you'll lose rep on some of them, but not all (depends on the age of the answer)

@JSBձոգչ it certainly reminds me of soemthing

Noah

@MattЭллен Okay, that could be the case then. Yesterday it was 3759 and now it's 3751.

Matt Эллен

that looks like you've had a question deleted maybe

Noah

@Cerberus When a user is removed, it logs that. But in this case I dont see anything being logged.

But I think @MattЭллен is right.

Matt Эллен

byee!

Cerberus

4:05 PM

Hmm I see.

Noah

@Cerberus Wasnt that a quick bye?

Cerberus

Oh dear, we have lost Matt.

Noah

Yeah. Just like that!

Cerberus

> Unless Apple decides to appeal to the UK's Supreme Court, it will be forced to advertise publicly that Samsung did not copy the iPad, despite Apple's vociferous claims to the contrary.

arstechnica.com/apple/2012/10/…

Great!

> "The acknowledgment must come from the horse's mouth," the ruling said. "Nothing short of that will be sure to do the job completely."

Noah

@Cerberus That sucks.

Cerberus

4:12 PM

Why?

Noah

Samsung copied Apple's design and they should admit that. ;)

Cerberus

I love it.

And Apple copied other people's designs.

Noah

@Cerberus Do you own an iDevice?

@Cerberus Those are just red herrings.

Cerberus

Arg, I lost connection.

@Noah Nope, I would sooner chew off my own foot!

@Noah How?

Copying (and improving) is an essential part of human nature.

Recent patent and copyright laws are harmful and corrupt.

There were tons of objects with rounded corners before Apple.

I feel very strongly about this, so beware!

The only legitimate reason to have patent and copyright law at all is to help mankind.

There is very little evidence that those laws do that, and there is lots of evidence of how they damage and harm mankind.

Imitation was long a high ideal in art.

Then in the 19th century, originality came to be favoured more.

But still imitation is and has always been an essential part.

Some people just don't see how it really works.

shakes heads

Patent litigation now costs ca. $ 30 billion in America alone.

All just to protect large corporations, who are able to put small start-ups out of business by suing them: a lawsuit will cost millions even if you win, and you don't get any of this money back. That way, large corporations and patent trolls extort small ones, even though the small one would win the case. Because it's still a huge loss for them even if they win.

Most start-ups just pay up in settlements, because just the threat of a 3-million-dollar lawsuit is enough.

@Noah "There Are 250,000 Active Patents That Impact Smartphones; Representing One In Six Active Patents Today"

> It definitely appears that there's something of a "bubble" going on around smartphone patents -- which is what happens when you have a hot emerging area, combined with ridiculously broad patents. It also makes for an astounding minefield for anyone new who wants to enter the space, especially if you don't have a massive war chest to license or fight in court.

techdirt.com/blog/innovation/articles/20121017/10480520734/…

Noah

4:39 PM

@Cerberus Wow. Thanks for the info. But in the Apple-Samsung case both of them seem to be pretty big. Both in terms of size and cash.

Cerberus

That is true.

So the impact is less severe on the economy.

But the total is still $ 30 billion.

How can you ever build a smartphone and get a license for, say, 100,000 patents?

Even if the licenses were all free, the legal costs of procuring them would make it impossible.

Noah

I see your concern. I am pretty much on your side in this case. But I really hate one thing in todays big corporations: they cannot innovate; innovations get killed before they can even see the light of day.

Cerberus

Many, many of those patents are really like "accessing a database through an on-line connection" etc. etc., overly broad.

@Noah How do you mean?

Is there no innovation?

Lots of innovation is killed or delayed by patents.

Noah

@Cerberus Yeah. I was reading Jobs Bio

Cerberus

What did you read there?

Noah

4:43 PM

You know Mr. Ive.

Jonathan Ive.

Cerberus

Who?

Noah

Jonathan Ive

Sir Jonathan Paul "Jony" Ive, KBE (born February 27th 1967) is an English designer and the senior vice president of industrial design at Apple Inc. He is the lead designer and conceptual mind behind many of Apple's products, including the MacBook Pro, iMac, MacBook Air, iPod, iPod touch, iPhone, and iPad. Early life Jonathan Ive was born in Chingford, London. His father was a silversmith who taught at the local college, "He's a fantastic craftsman, his Christmas gift to me would be one day of his time in his college workshop, during the Christmas break when no one else was there, he...

Cerberus

OK.

user19161

@Noah Innovation is also something that is not well-defined. Some people come up with all kinds of silly new things that are really silly.

Noah

He says that in most organizations ideas never get executed. They have to go through many organizational processes and might eventually get killed by top managment. He says that that's not the case at Apple.

@JasperLoy Is that YOU?

user19161

4:52 PM

To me, many stupid ideas get implemented, and the great ones are killed.

Noah

@JasperLoy Yeah, that's my point.

I should have added great before ideas.

user19161

An organisation with poor leaders will have difficulty improving because poor leaders elect poor leaders to take over them. This is a vicious cycle.

user19161

This is actually the law of inertia at work!

Cerberus

The problem is that an idea itself is not very valuable: I have lots of ideas, and most are just not practical. The application of an idea is what's difficult and costly. That's why ideas cannot be patented, not even in American law, only the practical application—except that people use loopholes, and the patent office is misguided and badly affected by regulatory capture.

Regulatory capture

Regulatory capture occurs when a state regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or special interests that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. Regulatory capture is a form of government failure, as it can act as an encouragement for large firms to produce negative externalities. The agencies are called "captured agencies". Theory For public choice theorists, regulatory capture occurs because groups or individuals with a high-stakes interest in the outcome of policy or regulatory decisions can be expected to focus ...

And the patent court is affected too.

The large majority of patents granted by the US patent office are later annulled or limited in court, when challenged.

Noah

@Cerb and why is that?

Cerberus

4:56 PM

Because they are too broad or there is prior art, most of the time, I think.

user19161

@Noah Indeed.

Noah

I am pretty sure the same thing is gona happen to the recent Apple-Samsung case.

Cerberus

@Noah And you must consider that it is the patent court that ultimately decides this, and they are very unbalanced themselves, favouring patent-holders.

@Noah I doubt it. It has been held up by the jury (who were instructed to look at prior art, but literally said they did not); and the appeal will go to the patent court, I think?

Noah

@Cerberus Do you think the court system is flawed at large?

Cerberus

There are some major flaws, but the court that decides on appealed patent cases is a special problem.

Noah

5:00 PM

omm, interesting.

Hey, @Cerberus I gotta disappear

Cerberus

(A major problem in the system itself is that judges don't investigate themselves, so you need to spend millions to defend yourself, or the judge will just only look at the evidence of the plaintiffs (I'm exaggerating a bit).)

Noah

It's been nice talking to you...

Cerberus

Ok later!

Noah

See you guys, @Cerberus @JasperLoy(Nice pic, dude)

Cerberus

(Another problem is that you will rarely get your legal costs back from the plaintiff if you win, so it will set you back millions even when you win. So just threatening someone with a lawsuit is enough to force them to pay up, if you have lots of money and they don't. Of course this does not apply to Apple v. Samsung.)

@JasperLoy Hey! I see you are yourself again!

Cool.

user19161

5:04 PM

@Cerberus It happened 9000 years ago, you need to refresh browser! Well, I store no cache!

Cerberus

That's why I see it now!

user19161

By the way I think Bieber sounds terrible now.

Cerberus

Have you considered growing your hair a bit longer?

@JasperLoy But he is your idol!

user19161

@Cerberus You just can't see it well in darkness.

Cerberus

I can see it, and it's short.

user19161

5:06 PM

@Cerberus Yes, a terrible sounding idol! No contradiction! Love is unconditional!

Cerberus

OK, OK.

How noble.

user19161

I am a noble gas.

user19161

Over and out!

Cerberus

Bai.

Zairja

Can someone please tell me how to drink a bottled soft drink? Should I put my mouth completely over the bottle's mouth, or should I put my upper inside the mouth (but still make a seal to prevent getting the soft drink on myself)?

David Wallace

5:20 PM

Why don't you try both ways, and see which is easier?

Zairja

Both seem equally effective. However, I do not want to appear foolish in front of my guests.

David Wallace

I don't think you'll appear foolish, whichever you do. I usually put my mouth completely over the bottle's mouth, but I really think it doesn't matter at all.

Zairja

I'm not sure if there's a conventional way to drink from a bottle. I can't find any commercials or advertising images that show the act in detail. Sometimes it appears people just pour it straight into their mouths with their heads leaned back.

Alright, thanks. If all else fails I was going to pour my drink into a cup! :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Zairja That certainly won't appear uncouth. It might appear overly fussy.

David Wallace

@Zairja The only people who do that are in advertisements.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:24 PM

Just make sure you face the bottle label towards the camera so they get a clear product shot.

Zairja

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 haha will do :b

Matt Эллен

EL&U Blog

Discussion for the EL&U Blog. For more info see meta.english.s...

blog chat!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Hire someone to act as a foley tech to add sound effects that are better than reality.

Robusto

You mean foley artist, surely.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Perhaps. Some are, some aren't.

Zairja

5:26 PM

The sounds I produce are better than any notion of a "sound effect better than reality". This sonorous quality extends to objects I come in contact with, as well.

David Wallace

@Zairja The mind just boggles.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Zairja Maybe you can find work as a foley tech then.

actually I am LOLing imagining you pouring water into a glass, saying "doup doup doup doup doup!", then putting the bottle down and saying "clink!"

Matt Эллен

@Robusto no! You're a mean foley artist, and don't call me shirley.

Zairja

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But that would lose the beautiful, ephemeral quality of my audible productions. :b

tchrist

5:45 PM

This is not the same question, and should not have been closed. Whether the verb wish governs the past subjunctive is utterly different from whether the conjunction if governs the subjunctive, be it past or present. These are not at all the same thing. — tchrist 1 min ago

Robusto

@MattЭллен That's right. I am a mean foley artist. So watch out, or I will mess with your sounds for real.

Also, is it "each user" or "each users"? — didibus 9 mins ago

Take a wild guess.

Cerberus

@Zairja The etiquette is that it doesn't matter if you don't share the bottle (no normal method looks weird); but, if you're sharing the bottle, you press your lips against the thin circle that is the opening, such that your lips touch the bottle as little as possible, i.e. on a surface as small as possible.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto all user?

Zairja

@Cerberus Excellent tip!

tchrist

Wrong dupe, darn it.

If you're going to close as a dupe, fine, but at least use the right one.

It's the wish-subj-dupe, not the if-subj-dupe.

See comments.

2

Q: was or were in Subjunctive Mood

Which of following sentences is formed properly? Why? Although Reza has a successful career as a lawyer, he still wishes he was a rock musician. or Although Reza has a successful career as a lawyer, he still wishes he were a rock musician.

subjunctive-mood

And yes, I answered after I checked Barrie's dupe link, but before I found the real dupes.

Sorry.

Cerberus

5:51 PM

@Zairja Then again, I don't know your culture, so perhaps it is customary to amply lubricate the opening before passing it on.

6

Haha.

@MattЭллен Wild.

@Cerberus

0

Q: Is "would" some times exchangeable with "may"?

Is "would" some times exchangeable with "may"? In http://english-zone.com/verbs/would-may.html I read that both can be use for Asking permission and Polite requests.

word-usage

Gawd.

Matt Эллен

5:56 PM

Wood and May... I'd only get in trouble

Cerberus

This seems more accurate.

Robusto

I'ma get my machete and have some pineapples.

@Cerberus I don't concede that point, but I will note that your art sucks.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Haha, right!

@Robusto How nice of you to take the time to note that.

Robusto

@Cerberus You're welcome.

Cerberus

Unlike the other pineapples?

Robusto

5:58 PM

I don't know how you are defining accuracy.

Perhaps you meant to say "more inaccurate"?

Cerberus

Lying happily together v. being penetrated by a metal cutting object.

Robusto

@Cerberus I was trying to be welcoming. You are just being mean.

Cerberus

Which resembles the typical pineapple experience better?

@Robusto Just describing the facts! I wasn't advocating this practice.

Robusto

"Can" and "do" are also used for asking permission and making polite requests. That doesn't mean they are synonyms, or in any way interchangeable. — Robusto 39 secs ago

David Wallace

@Robusto Ugh, I hate seeing the word "more" followed by a word with a negative prefix. Can't we say "less accurate" instead?

Robusto

6:02 PM

@DavidWallace I feel your pain. But no. We can't.

I would find that a more unsatisfactory solution.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I wouldn't find that not more unsatisfactory neither.

KitFox

@Zairja In my neck of the woods, the first technique is the way children do it, the second the way adults do it, generally speaking. It wouldn't be improper, but might seem...youthful to do it the first way.

Zairja

@KitFox I imagine that as the mouth of the bottle gets wider things would get a bit ridiculous.

KitFox

Indeed.

Robusto

6:18 PM

Inword.

Zairja

Is codswallop considered a nonce word?

KitFox

I don't know what that means.

tchrist

codswallop /ˈkɒdzwɒləp/. slang. Also cod’s wallop.
Etymology: Origin unknown.
Nonsense, drivel.
1963 Radio Times 17 Oct. 52/2 ― Just branding a programme as ‘rubbish’, ‘tripe’, or-there are a lot of these-‘codswallop’, gives little indication of what moved the viewer to write.
1966 J. Porter Sour Cream vi. 72 ― It had all seemed a load of old cod’s wallop to me at the time, but those lecturers were experts.
1966 A. Prior Operators vi. 64 ― All that stuff about mutual respect between police and criminal was a load of old codswallop.

@Zairja So, no.

KitFox

It's the use of "nonce" that I don't understand.

tchrist

Oh.

@KitFox A nonce word is a special one-time usage.

> 4. attrib.: nonce-word, the term used in this Dictionary to describe a word which is apparently used only for the nonce (see vol. I, p. xxvii); similarly nonce-use, etc.; similarly nonce-borrowing, -combination, -form, -formation, -meaning.

@KitFox Citations go back to 1884. So nonce-word is clearly not self-descriptive. :)

> 1957 R. W. Zandvoort Handbk. Eng. Gram. i. ii. 43 ― Some of them are nonce-words, i.e. spontaneous creations by a speaker or writer, coined for the occasion.

That is a good one.

KitFox

6:31 PM

I figured that "nonce" was like "one-off" but I didn't understand how it combined with "word."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so is every nonce word a hapax legomenon?

KitFox

Yes.

I have to go play now. Bye.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

thinking about it further, it might not be HL. unless you extend the definition of HL to include words used multiple times but only in one single work.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not quite.

Exactly.

And it isn't.

An HL is for a given work, or chapter, or page.

It's one instance of a word.

That word might occur in other writings.

A nonce-word is different.

RegDwighт

@Robusto may I can or do I would?

Robusto

6:40 PM

Yes, of course.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus yeah yeah. I knew you would say that.

tchrist

I'm going to whine if they closedup the subjunctive question to the wrong master.

Yes, it is a dupe, but not the one everyone keeps saying.

I am going to vote to close it for the right one, which I didn't know when I answered it.

I always get growled at for this.

This is advance notice.

Damn it.

Too late.

They did it to the wrong one.

@Reg Please explain why this isn't the right dupe:

3

Q: How to conjugate the verb in a sentence that starts with "I wish..."

I generally find it hard to construct some sentences that start with "I wish, ..." Example: (Background:) Due to an incomplete technical documentation, we chose the wrong path, and ran into an unforeseen limitation. What's the correct way to state my frustration? I wish, the documentation wou...

tense subjunctive-mood

Wish clauses are not if clauses. The question was about a wish clause, so it should be dupclosed to a wish clause question, not to an if clause question.

Robusto

7:08 PM

If wishes were clauses, a frog wouldn't bump his ass so much.

simchona

5

Q: Reinstating the English Learners' Proposal

Proposal: English Language Learners Following the conclusion of the Definition phase, this proposal was recently closed in support of our English SE site. After a lot of discussion here and internally, we decided to re-open this proposal. There were a lot of intriguing arguments throughout. I ...

culture closed-proposals

Did I miss a discussion on this?

Matt Эллен

Oh! Ace! Should I delete this question now?

simchona

@MattЭллен I can close it, maybe? Who knows what will happen, though

JSBձոգչ

man, it's always a bad sign when this sucks is the only comment you can leave in your source code

simchona

It doesn't really deserve closing

Matt Эллен

7:20 PM

ok, I'll leave it

it can serve as a reminder on how we treat GR questions

Grace Note

@MattЭллен You could just reframe the question.

Either that, or have it answered as "The proposal has been reopened".

Matt Эллен

good thinking!

Robusto

> Our current English community will have to be patient while we build a strong foundation for a high-quality learning site. The Learning community will have a tough challenge ahead of them to strengthen that tenuous line between "feigning knowledge as a beginner"

> and enforcing English proficiency for those who are willing to help others advance their learning. You have to build up that confidence in the knowledge you pass, despite the inherent language barrier. But that's what early betas are for.

What does this mean, pray tell?

Cerberus

@Robusto I can tell you.

Robusto

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, exactly, but still ...

@Cerberus Do so, please.

Cerberus

7:31 PM

It is a text written to mean nothing at all on purpose.

Phrases like "high quality", "the learning community", and "challenge ahead" should be clear enough as clues.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Oh David

> My last concern is that it will cause ELU to wither and die. We will throw out the bathwater and discover that there is no baby. The true English experts will lose interest, and leave one by one. And I shall join them.

simchona

I think his answer basically says "close this because it's horrible". If you don't like it...don't support it

Robusto

Still, it's Tiffany's to a tin can that the mighty hand of JA Rule can be felt in this.

Cerberus

Oh!

It has been reinstated!

Yay!

I am amazed!

That must be Jeff's doing.

His help is perhaps the most amazing aspect to this affair.

Robusto

2 mins ago, by Robusto

Still, it's Tiffany's to a tin can that the mighty hand of JA Rule can be felt in this.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:36 PM

Dear stack-exchange chat: please don't present an error when I respond to chat flags. You asked me to respond. If I am not the FGITW, just STFU about it.

Cerberus

@Robusto Yes! I missed that line.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah it always does that.

Robusto

@Cerberus And I worked so hard on it. pouts

Cerberus

The issue is probably that the pop-up doesn't disappear when someone else has handled it.

simchona

@Robusto Well, I liked it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yeah and it's still a bug even though I expected it to behave buggily.

Robusto

7:38 PM

You work so hard on something and then the dog comes in with muddy paws and frisks all over the rug.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The user experience should be the exact same when I respond whether or not anyone else has responded: make the popup go away and don't report errors. I don't fucking care about errors. And it isn't an error if the flag was already answered.

And they are like super-sensitive over in DIY

Cerberus

@Robusto To be honest, I don't get your Tiffany's reference.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Of course. It annoys me too, to the point of just ignoring flags. I invalidated that "fucking" line btw.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus so it was YOU!

Cerberus

For once it was!

Would you have validated it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

no

Cerberus

7:40 PM

You know what the most annoying issue is?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No context

Cerberus

You know you should really click on the chat room and investigate the context, but then someone else will have handled it before you return.

Robusto

Tiffany & Co.

Tiffany & Co. () (known colloquially as Tiffany or Tiffany's) is a luxury American multinational jewelry and silverware corporation, with headquarters in New York City. Tiffany sells jewelry, sterling silver, china, crystal, stationery, fragrances, personal accessories, as well as some leather goods. Many of these goods are sold under the Tiffany name at Tiffany stores and through direct-mail and corporate merchandising. Goods are also sold wholesale to third-party distributors. Tiffany is renowned for its luxury goods, especially for its diamonds: diamond jewelry, and especially its dia...

Cerberus

So I just invalidate everything I see, unless it seems a personal insult.

@Robusto I know of this shop.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus In fact I always go to the room to see the context. Which means I almost never get to handle flags. Which is too bad because I'm at least honestly trying.

Cerberus

7:42 PM

I just didn't get how it was involved.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And instead of just thanking me, the system punishes me.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, I stopped doing that, because my success rate is next to zero then.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So you'd rather handle a flag, maybe incorrectly, than be right? You're a flag whore!

waits for flags

LOL

Cerberus

I am mainly against censorship, and those stupid people are offended by every little cuss word, so chances are 99 % that it is harmless, and I invalidate it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yeah I've never actually seen a valid flag yet

Cerberus

7:44 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am tempted!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I should just adopt your strategy

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And yet I got suspended for "Iphones are gay".

2

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

shoot first, re-flag later

Cerberus

That must happen all the time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The irony!

Cerberus

7:44 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, or that.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The irony was all my work, not the situation's.

Robusto

@Cerberus So you do get the reference of you don't? I'm mixed up and/or confused.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If you got suspended for that, I wonder why I didn't get suspended for insulting ... what was it? Islam? Christianity? both? that time. Well, one of the times.

Cerberus

@Robusto I know that Tiffany's is a juweller. I don't understand how it is related to JA.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Because it's bad and arbitrary.

Robusto

@Cerberus You are a pineapple indeed, sir!

Let's get @MattЭллен in here to sort it out for you.

Cerberus

That helped, now I understand.

Robusto

7:47 PM

It helped you to be called a pineapple? makes a note

Matt Эллен

hello!

simchona

@MattЭллен ELL is open again

Cerberus

Hi!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto I'm not sure I get it either. Is it an idiom? Or are you stating it as a sort of wager: jewels vs a tin can?

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, no, you're supposed to get it.

Matt Эллен

7:48 PM

29 mins ago, by Matt Эллен

Oh! Ace! Should I delete this question now?

;)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus s'posed to, sure.

simchona

@MattЭллен It's...an odd day.

I said nothing.

Nothing at all.

Matt Эллен

:D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

24 secs ago, by simchona

@MattЭллен It's...an odd day.

Robusto

It's an absurd statement of odds: a fancy jeweler worth lots of money vs. a tin-can. As in "I'll lay you odds of Tiffany's to any old piece of trash in the recycling bin that [condition is met]."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:49 PM

26 secs ago, by simchona

I said nothing.

Saying nothing is saying something!

@Robusto okay. That's what I gathered after reading it again. Like "dollars to donuts"

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Like "dollars to donuts" but, I think, fresher and more interesting.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Is it a snowclone of some other X to Y?

@Robusto well, donuts better be fresh, or the wager's off

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, it's not a snowclone. Geezis.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Are you being sarcastic? Because I've never heard your version.

Robusto

7:52 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Of course you haven't, because I just made it up. It's called writing.

Cerberus

The comparison of shop against trash can threw me off a little bit. It did make me think of odds in some way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto oh pish. that makes it s snowclone then.

Robusto

Lies.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

There there. I didn't say it was a bad snowclone.

hands over donuts

Robusto

You don't deserve good writing. I will leave my brain at home from now on.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:54 PM

Me too! But then, I work from home.

Cerberus

What brain?

Oh.

Robusto

I am immune to Dutch insults. Especially lame ones like that.

Grace Note

Hohum

Cerberus

You had it coming.

Hi!

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's not a snowclone at all. Typically when laying odds one would say "I'll give you ten to one that ..." or "It's ten to one that ..." Which is not a cliche.

Cerberus

7:57 PM

@GraceNote It's funny how your first word is already a made-up word!

@Robusto It's usually numbers...

Robusto

@Cerberus All words are made-up. Especially in Dutch.

Cerberus

Perhaps it's Dutch.

But I wasn't talking to you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Just because there are non-snowclone uses of the phrase doesn't mean that there aren't also snowclone uses of the phrase.

Grace Note