English Language Learners

Anonymous

7:01 PM

Oh! I love when words flip polarity :-)

Damkerng T.

Hehe. So the winner a few hundred years ago is now a loser!

Anonymous

Japanese has some of those.

Damkerng T.

curious

Anonymous

For example, sugoi is a word meaning "super! amazing! great! wonderful! terrific!"

Anonymous

It can be used as a generic intensifier: sugoku ureshii = "really happy"

Anonymous

7:03 PM

(Some people these days even use it without inflection, though it's nonstandard: sugoi ureshii "real happy")

Damkerng T.

Ah, yes. That word. (I'm always confused by this one because now Thai seems to borrow it, and changes its pronunciation to su-koi.)

Anonymous

But historically, etymologically, it meant "dreadful, fearful" (both to a great extent)

Damkerng T.

Hah!

I've never known that before.

Anonymous

The first definition given in Nihon Kokugo Daijiten begins zotto suru hodo osoroshii, which literally means "so fearful as to cause one to shiver"

Damkerng T.

Ahh... must be amazing in some way.

Anonymous

7:05 PM

Yes, as you can imagine, it generalized to mean to a great extent, and came to be used positively

Anonymous

Other meanings it had along the way included "dreadfully beautiful"

Damkerng T.

:D dreadfully beautiful is quite something!

Oh, in the last few years, Thai borrows some more words from English. One of them is pronounced /sup-ta/. Can you guess what it was from?

Anonymous

Super?

Damkerng T.

Yes, that's one part of it.

Anonymous

I'm at a loss for ta. I can come up with a lot of guesses but no particularly good justifications for any of them. Terrific?

Damkerng T.

7:20 PM

It's from superstar!

Anonymous

English has had some interesting polarity changes, too: think about awesome and awful

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh! :-)

Damkerng T.

Now every Thai celeb is called supta. :)

Anonymous

What's the Thai title for Jesus Christ Superstar?

Damkerng T.

I don't know. :)

@snailplane Oh the case of awesome and awful.

จีซัสไครสต์ซูเปอร์สตาร์

จีซัสไครสต์ซูเปอร์สตาร์ () เป็นละครเพลงแนวร็อกโอเปรา ผลงานประพันธ์ของแอนดรูว์ ลอยด์ เวบเบอร์ และคำร้องโดยทิม ไรซ์ มีที่มาจากคอนเซ็ปอัลบั้มของเวบเบอร์และไรซ์ในปี ค.ศ. 1970 ซึ่งดัดแปลงมาจากงานเขียน Life of Christ ของบิชอป ฟุลตัน เจ. ชีน ชาวอเมริกัน (1895 – 1979) คอนเซ็ปอัลบั้มของเวบเบอร์และไรซ์นี้ร้องนำโดยเอียน กิลแลน ขึ้นถึงอันดับหนึ่งบนชาร์ตของนิตยสารบิลบอร์ด และนำมาดัดแปลงเป็นละครบรอดเวย์ ภาพยนตร์ ละครเวสต์เอนด์ และออกแสดงในประเทศต่างๆ เนื้อเรื่องกล่าวถึงเหตุการณ์ในช่วงสัปดาห์สุดท้ายในพระชนม์ชีพของพระเยซู ถึงการเตรียมการตั้งแต่วันอาทิตย์ใบลาน เมื่อพระเยซูเสด็จพร้อมด้วยสาวกเข้ากรุงเยรูซ...

It seems like we call it Jesus Christ Superstar too!

Anonymous

7:25 PM

Same in Japanese. There's a tradition though, in Japan, of giving foreign works Japanese titles, called hōdai

Anonymous

Sometimes Japanese titles for foreign things turn out to be pretty neat.

Anonymous

Does Thai have anything like that?

Anonymous

I mean, I'm sure it happens to a certain extent across all language boundaries.

Anonymous

That is, all language boundaries that translations cross!

Damkerng T.

Giving foreign works Thai titles is rather common.

But Hollywood movie titles are particularly interesting (in Thai).

Anonymous

7:28 PM

Oh really?

Damkerng T.

Yes. I think we love to cram everything in a movie into its title. :)

Anonymous

Oh, you like long movie titles!

Anonymous

Whereas in English, we like single-word titles.

Damkerng T.

For example...

Anonymous

What does that say in Thai?

Damkerng T.

7:30 PM

Thai title is สวนสัตว์อัศจรรย์ ของขวัญให้ลูก

สวนสัตว์ = zoo, อัศจรรย์ = amazing, ของขวัญ = present/gift, ให้ = to/for, ลูก = daughter/son

So roughly it means: An amazing zoo (I) bought as a gift for my daughter.

Anonymous

Hah

Anonymous

Well, it works!

Anonymous

Hey, did you see that movie? (I hadn't heard of it till you linked to it.)

Damkerng T.

I watched it twice!

Though very Hollywood-ized, I think it's really watchable.

Anonymous

Hmm... What was the last movie I saw in English?

Anonymous

7:33 PM

Oh! I think it might have been How to Train Your Dragon

Anonymous

That was a good movie.

Damkerng T.

Oh that animation! I haven't seen this one yet.

Anonymous

I recommend it.

Damkerng T.

But its trailer looks really cool!

Who do the voice over?

Jay Baruchel, I remember him from another movie.

Anonymous

I don't know.

Damkerng T.

7:36 PM

I know him from The Sorcerer's Apprentice.

Nicolas Cage was in it too.

Somehow I think Nicholas Cage's accent is very distinctive. (I mean it in a good way.)

But I couldn't tell which part of the US he comes from. :)

Oh, Nicolas Cage is from California.

Anonymous

I sort of have a California accent now, though I wasn't born here.

Damkerng T.

Hehe. I think accent is difficult to change anyway though.

Anonymous

Depends on the person.

Damkerng T.

Maybe.

I observe this in Thai language.

Anonymous

Oh, for a fact. It varies greatly on the person.

Anonymous

7:41 PM

Some people pick up accents like sponges, natural mimics, them. Me, not so much.

Anonymous

But I'm a little spongelike.

Damkerng T.

We have mainly 4 or 5 dialects, and it seems to be very hard to change the accent.

Anonymous

When I say I sort of have a California accent, it's because I've picked it up. I haven't tried to. It just happened.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Ah, like SpongeBob?

Anonymous

Some people, when they move, they start to talk like the people around them. That's very natural. Others seem to retain their accents more.

Damkerng T.

7:42 PM

(I've never seen the animation, though.)

Anonymous

Oh, it has a snail in it!

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

I think last month someone told me that Britney Spears seems to change her accent too.

@snailplane If you didn't tell me it's supposed to be a snail, I might think it's a brain!

Anonymous

That's Gary the Snail. He's very famous among snail lovers. (Mostly small children.)

Anonymous

A lot of pet snails have been named in his honor. :-)

Damkerng T.

7:44 PM

Ahh... Gary the Snail.

Anonymous

►

Damkerng T.

It's huge!

I think I couldn't watch it now. :)

Anonymous

That's a Giant African Land Snail (GALS).

Anonymous

And that GALS is named Gary!

Anonymous

Actually, GALS grow to be quite large. Not as large as some marine snails, mind you, but large.

Damkerng T.

7:47 PM

A real Gary the Snail.

Anonymous

I just found that photo online.

Damkerng T.

This one is also huge!

Anonymous

The little snail on top is about how big my pet snails are. The adults, I mean :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh, there are two snails in the photo.

Anonymous

7:50 PM

If you look up Triton's Trumpets, they can grow up to two feet long.

Damkerng T.

Gasp!

Anonymous

They're really pretty snails, too :-)

Damkerng T.

It's amazing seeing how big they can grow.

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

It looks like a conch.

Anonymous

7:54 PM

Oh! It would probably be called that.

Anonymous

Conch isn't a formal classification, I think--just a snail with a shell that's big and shaped like that, more or less.

Damkerng T.

We have a classic Thai lit. that uses conch the same way that pied pipe of Hamelin was used.

Anonymous

Oh! :-)

Damkerng T.

But instead of calling mice, our conch calls fishes.

Anonymous

Well, you know, Triton's Trumpets are so called because they were used as musical instruments in ancient times.

Damkerng T.

7:56 PM

Its name sounds so indeed!

But from which one? Roman?

Anonymous

Triton was a Greek god.

Damkerng T.

Ah, so it must be the Greek.

Anonymous

He had a conch shell which he blew on to command the seas!

Damkerng T.

Is Triton another name for Poseidon?

Anonymous

His son

Damkerng T.

7:58 PM

Oh! I see.

Anonymous

theoi.com/Pontios/Triton.html

Damkerng T.

Oh! He's a merman!

Anonymous

> He raised his horn, his hollow spiralled whorl, the horn that, sounded in mid ocean, fills the shores of dawn and sunset round the world; and when it touched the god's wet-bearded lips and took his breath and sounded the retreat, all the wide waters of the land and sea heard it, and all, hearing its voice, obeyed.

Anonymous

Oh, that transparent question is popular!

Damkerng T.

We've gotten 5 answers already!

Anonymous

8:03 PM

Ooh, it made it to hot network questions!

Damkerng T.

Happy did it again!

Anonymous

Yay!

Anonymous

Which question did Happy get on the list before?

Damkerng T.

33

A: How do I respond to my Professor's email, wherein he has mistaken my gender?

How about you reply like this: Dear Professor Smith, (content of your reply) Thanks and Regards, Ms. Li Wei That avoids the issue of "correcting" him altogether. He would hopefully get the hint. Edit: Per StoneyB's suggestion in the below comment, I changed Miss to Ms..

That 1k views in a day question. :)

Anonymous

Oh! That one was an answer

Anonymous

8:05 PM

That was a good question

Damkerng T.

I tried to work on this question for a while, but couldn't decipher it.

ell.stackexchange.com/q/17675/3281

(Hmm... strange. One boxing doesn't work with this question.)

Oh, it's been deleted!

Anonymous

I can't tell what it means.

Anonymous

Why -ing?

Damkerng T.

One boxing? I don't know perhaps I got it wrong. :)

Anonymous

Well, I guess it makes sense

Anonymous

8:16 PM

No, that's fine.

Anonymous

I meant the phrase in the question.

Anonymous

Although now that you mention it, I think people write onebox as one word.

Damkerng T.

Afaict, it is related to Mysticism.

Anonymous

I'm always tempted to respond to comments, but I think that a lot of the time it's best if I let their comments speak for themselves. And if my answer doesn't already answer the comment and it needs answering (in a way that isn't wholly off-topic), then I should update my answer instead.

Anonymous

But it's always so tempting to respond. I like talking. :-)

Anonymous

8:21 PM

The most useless kind of comment I've left is "My answer says that already." or other similar things.

Anonymous

I usually realize later that my comment is pointless and delete it :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh!

I usually posted something I think it could be an answer as a comment, when I didn't really want to write something qualified as an answer.

Anonymous

Comments are fun, though. Sometimes more fun than answers.

Damkerng T.

Comments are super-fun!

Anonymous

I risk it sometimes, because people can downvote if they think it's wrong.

Anonymous

8:23 PM

Although I try not to post answers if I don't actually think they're correct myself.

Anonymous

Fact is, I make mistakes!

Anonymous

(I assume you all realize this and it doesn't need saying, but I'm saying it anyway! :-)

Damkerng T.

I don't know how many times I didn't answer because the OP asked too many questions and I couldn't answer some of the questions. :)

@snailplane It's rare, I think. I couldn't recall one. Hehe.

Anonymous

(Sometimes I'm afraid that people take me a bit too seriously because I'm a native speaker and because sometimes I misjudge my own certainty about something, so I assert a mistake confidently.)

Anonymous

Introspection is a hard problem.

Damkerng T.

8:25 PM

nods

Anonymous

I wrote some answers on Japanese, too.

Damkerng T.

Like those three words in my clip. I wouldn't know it if you didn't tell me.

Anonymous

2

A: what exactly is "体言止{たいげんど}め"?

The term 体言止め refers to ending a sentence with a 体言. So, what's a 体言? In Japanese school grammar, a 体言{たいげん} is a type of word which has the following traits: It is an independent word. (It does not depend on another word, like 助詞 or 助動詞 do.) It does not inflect. (In other words, it has onl...

Anonymous

Look! I turned caffeine into words!

Anonymous

proud

Anonymous

8:26 PM

@DamkerngT. Ah! Anytime!

Damkerng T.

言 ~ language?

Anonymous

Yes: word, say, language.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Thank you.

Anonymous

That's another hanzi (kanji) you know, then? Beyond just 一二三十?

Damkerng T.

Yes.

I remember it as wind over mouth.

It might be possible that my Chinese vocab is approaching 100 words. :)

Enough to do a little pidgin, but not enough to speak the language. :)

Anonymous

8:29 PM

In Japanese, 言 is used for gen / gon (a Sino-Japanese morpheme with two forms meaning word/speech), as well as the verb iu / yuu ("say") and the noun koto ("word")

Anonymous

So in Japanese, it has four readings, depending on context.

Damkerng T.

Oh! Four different words on the same character.

Anonymous

Unofficially, it has a fifth reading gin listed in one of my larger dictionaries, but I've never seen that used.

Anonymous

In Chinese, it's yán

Anonymous

8:45 PM

One of my friends says that people say unthaw a lot when they mean thaw

Damkerng T.

Ah...

Anonymous

Wiktionary gives a definition for unthaw as "to thaw out"!

Damkerng T.

I think unravel and ravel is similar.

Anonymous

Hey, my English-Japanese dictionaries all define unthaw with a word meaning thaw, melt :-)

Damkerng T.

Nice! :D

Anonymous

8:48 PM

The ODE says: "Logically, the verb unthaw should mean 'freeze', but in North American it means exactly the same as thaw (as in the warm weather helped unthaw the rail lines); because of the risk of confusion it is not part of standard usage. Unthawed as an adjective always means 'still frozen', but it is best avoided because many contexts may be ambiguous, such as use frozen (unthawed) blueberries.

Anonymous

The OED on the other hand just says "to thaw" :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh, ODE and OED look similar.

Anonymous

They do!

Anonymous

They're completely different, though.

Anonymous

The ODE is also a very large dictionary. I think it might be the largest single-volume dictionary of English.

Anonymous

8:52 PM

But the ODE is not a historical dictionary of English. Although it contains brief etymologies, it focuses on the modern language.

Damkerng T.

I thought they are from the same publisher.

Anonymous

It contains things the OED does not. For example, it contains more proper nouns. It has an entry for Arnold Schwarzenegger!

Anonymous

They are from the same publisher.

Anonymous

Oxford makes a number of very different dictionaries!

Anonymous

The OED is a historical dictionary with a very large scope.

Damkerng T.

8:54 PM

Hah! Mr. Governor!

Anonymous

It has detailed entries and analyses of a lot of things.

Anonymous

And it has historical citations, focusing on earliest usage and how usage evolves.

Damkerng T.

Which one is bigger: Merriam-Webster's or OED?

Anonymous

The ODE focuses on modern usage. It has fewer citations. It has more usage notes, and I think more informal terms, . . . I'm not sure how best to characterize it.

Anonymous

The OED is much larger than M-W.

Damkerng T.

8:55 PM

Wow! And I thought M-W was huge!

Anonymous

The OED on paper spans many volumes.

Anonymous

Most people who use it these days don't use paper editions, though.

Damkerng T.

I got M-W somewhere in my house, but don't know exactly where. :-)

Anonymous

Just a moment.

Anonymous

I should take some dictionary pictures.

Damkerng T.

9:02 PM

Argh! I couldn't find it... going out to try to find it again.

My cat probably ate it!

Anonymous

Oh! Good Hagu!

Anonymous

If you eat a dictionary, you get smarter.

Anonymous

That's from the big ol' Webster :-)

Damkerng T.

Hah! Thailand's on the page!

I wonder where my M-W was gone.

Anonymous

9:11 PM

I like single-volume dictionaries.

Anonymous

I'm happy about my denshi jisho.

Anonymous

It has the most popular single-volume Japanese dictionary, which is Koujien.

Anonymous

Which is really a pretty big dictionary, and I mean that in terms of its physical girth.

Damkerng T.

It must be heavy.

I didn't know that a book has its girth before.

Anonymous

I've seen it at the store, but I don't have a physical copy.

Anonymous

9:13 PM

Damkerng T.

Looks really neat!

The set includes a small book too!

Anonymous

If any single-volume dictionary can be said to have girth, I'd say that one does.

Damkerng T.

Also looks precious.

Oh, have you ever seen this Japanese TV show, the MC will visit people and ask them to show their precious treasure!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, it does.

Anonymous

I think it's primarily for looking up kanji you don't know, so you can look those words up in the main volume.

Anonymous

9:17 PM

So it's kind of like a tiny kanwa jiten.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. No, I haven't!

Anonymous

I have another paper dictionary from the same publisher as Koujien, by the way.

Anonymous

Again, it's a completely different dictionary.

Damkerng T.

I like this show (TV Champion) a lot.

►

Anonymous

9:42 PM

Oh, that looks hard!

Damkerng T.

This show is about challenging things.

I usually watch it with Thai voiced over.

The challenge topics could be almost everything, I think.

Theta30

11:20 PM

Hemingway not yet?

Damkerng T.

It should start in the next hour.

I'm going to post an answer to that headlines grammar question.

Anonymous

"historical present"

Damkerng T.

11:37 PM

I don't know that term, though, but I tried my best to explain it.

0

A: Differences in meaning when the verb tense changes

Why news headlines are written as "He says ..." or "He kills ..." instead of "He said ..." or "He killed ..."? That is because news headlines are written in a compressed telegraphic style, also known as Headlinese. It might be the best for learners to read this writing style differently from or...

I hope that my answer is easy to read enough for the OP.

I think I need to do something with my browser, it's painfully slow. Clicking on something and I need to wait for a few more seconds before I get the response.

(I can count to 6 seconds if I want to scroll an ELL web page.)

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I'm not sure if anyone could really survive if a shell nose-cap was exploded in their face.

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