TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2015-03-03 (page 1 of 2)

yo'

12:32 AM

@PauloCereda Good night!

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Night Tom! <3

yo'

12:43 AM

@PauloCereda :)

Faheem Mitha

2:56 AM

@HenriMenke That's interesting.

@DavidCarlisle I thought you live in Oxford. Isn't that like super-wired with the University and all?

@DavidCarlisle Ok, never mind. Apparently not Oxford after all.

Though the Uk is so small one imagines fiber every which where.

Faheem Mitha

3:22 AM

Every which way, sorry.

Faheem Mitha

4:05 AM

@DavidCarlisle random question - how far are you from Sutton Courtenay? The WP entry says it is in Oxfordshire.

Sutton Courtenay

Sutton Courtenay is a village and civil parish on the River Thames 2 miles (3 km) south of Abingdon and 3 miles (5 km) northwest of Didcot. It was part of Berkshire until the 1974 boundary changes transferred it to Oxfordshire. == History == Settlement in the parish dates from at least the Neolithic era, when the alluvial plains of the Thames made the area fertile for agriculture. The Romans were present in the village as evidenced by a surviving ceremonial site and road. Excavations have revealed rough Saxon huts of the early stages of Anglo-Saxon colonization, but their most important enduring...

Joseph Wright

8:22 AM

1

Q: Which Windows editors have comment/ uncomment keyboard shortcuts?

I'm a longtime user of TeXnicCenter. I like the fact that there's a keyboard shortcut I can use to comment or uncomment large blocks of text (Ctrl-Q and Ctrl-W, respectively). Are there other LaTeX editors for Windows 7 that also have this feature?

Do people agree with my latest comment here? I'm really not sure that such a 'focussed' question really works that well in terms of editor features.

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha I work in Ocford, and live in Oxfordshire, bit this bit of oxfordshire hasn't really changed for the last 300 years when they moved the road not to go through the village...

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle What road is that?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes

daleif

8:59 AM

@PauloCereda, as expected, not a single reply regarding localization of arara. (not sure if that is down to people not using it...). As I mentioned earlier, I don't think a Danish translation is worth it.

Paulo Cereda

9:19 AM

@daleif Oh. Sorry for the trouble. Living and learning. :)

daleif

@PauloCereda, no problem, nice of you to consider us.

Paulo Cereda

@daleif It's quite the opposite of what happens in the Brazilian scenario: the majority doesn't know English, not even a small language subset (that applies to Spanish as well!).

daleif

@PauloCereda, that too bad. Even the French are getting better at English.

Paulo Cereda

@daleif it is. In academia, it's even worse.

clemens

9:55 AM

@LaRiFaRi doesn't look too bad IMHO

Joseph Wright

gust.org.pl/bachotex/2015-en

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright: ^^ :)

LaRiFaRi

@clemens thanks. Have included your tip

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Something like that

@PauloCereda Have you seen the latest CTAN update for expl3 :-)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright ooh hold on

LaRiFaRi

10:03 AM

@clemens feature request: the nodes AO2 and AO8 do not align vertically as I would have expected.

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Try \str_lower_case:n and \tl_lower_case:n with some Unicode input (and a suitable engine)

LaRiFaRi

@clemens I think it would be nicer to have the horizontal line as anchor.

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright YAAAAAY

yo'

@JosephWright svn 3990?

Paulo Cereda

That's why UK-TUG rocks.

Joseph Wright

10:04 AM

@PauloCereda The \str_... ones are @clemens's fault :-)

yo'

hello, btw

LaRiFaRi

@clemens and one more thing, the three lines notation for 2p seems to be common for some people. Maybe this could become an option.

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Yet another German to make things work? Tell me about it. :P

LaRiFaRi

@clemens Just ideas. I never use this package and never will, as I am not in chemistry. However, I respect and appreciate your work. Keep on going!

Paulo Cereda

arara is quite popular in Germany. :)

LaRiFaRi

10:06 AM

@PauloCereda I am not that famous in Germany...

Paulo Cereda

@LaRiFaRi Neither am I. :)

LaRiFaRi

But I do my best to promote it... with every answer...

Joseph Wright

@yo' 5547

Paulo Cereda

I like German food though.

@LaRiFaRi You sir deserve a badge. :)

@LaRiFaRi: Heiko uses it.

clemens

@LaRiFaRi really? They do for me. Just checked...

LaRiFaRi

10:07 AM

@PauloCereda I want gold... :-) nothing else counts

Paulo Cereda

@LaRiFaRi Das Money!

^^ it has begun

yo'

@JosephWright ah. Why ctan.org says svn 3990 (2012), but actually contains the most recent one?

ctan.org/pkg/expl3

1010011010

@StevenB.Segletes In regard to your answer at tex.stackexchange.com/questions/230840/…, I will put a bounty on it to see what will happen. You deserve more than +10 for the answer anyhow (the answer is of a lot of value to me).

LaRiFaRi

@clemens ups... Knick in the optic... sorry

clemens

@JosephWright :)

Joseph Wright

10:08 AM

@yo' ctan.org/pkg/l3kernel

@yo' I'll ask them to alias that

LaRiFaRi

@PauloCereda Das money... was that German or wrong writing of "does"

"Das Geld"

yo'

@JosephWright ah I see now

Paulo Cereda

@LaRiFaRi I don't know German, the only thing I know is Das. :)

LaRiFaRi

haha, I see

well, you could learn "Der" and "Die" next

and voila. You made three words out of "the"

Paulo Cereda

@LaRiFaRi Christian wanted me to use Die Ente but I don't want to kill ducks. :)

LaRiFaRi

10:10 AM

Der Arara, das arara

clemens

@LaRiFaRi there are lots of things I could add to modiagram... this is somewhere on my TODO list. :)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright: how long does it take to go from UK to Germany?

clemens

@LaRiFaRi what do you mean exactly?

LaRiFaRi

@PauloCereda which would be das Ende der Ente

oh, German is great

Paulo Cereda

@LaRiFaRi I love it, it's so easy.

LaRiFaRi

10:11 AM

@clemens the line was an error by me

Paulo Cereda

The pig -> Das Bakon.

3

So easy. :)

LaRiFaRi

hehe.... The pig - Das Schwein / The bacon - Der Schinken

clemens

@PauloCereda :)

LaRiFaRi

@clemens or do you mean the triple lines?

Paulo Cereda

@LaRiFaRi WOW!

LaRiFaRi

10:12 AM

@PauloCereda I know... I'm a real pro

Paulo Cereda

@LaRiFaRi <3

clemens

@LaRiFaRi I don't really understand what you mean by chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/20340684#20340684

LaRiFaRi

@clemens I thought they were not lining up vertically. But they do.

as I said: Knick in der Optik

@clemens Everything fine with this topic

clemens

@LaRiFaRi Ah, so nothing to worry for me then? :)

LaRiFaRi

no

@clemens but thanks

Joseph Wright

10:18 AM

@PauloCereda Depends how you travel :-) Flight from Heathrow or Birmingham to Frankfurt is about 90 minutes, for example

David Carlisle

@JosephWright going?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle No, just advertising :-)

@DavidCarlisle Certainly can't do that and TUG2015

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Oh cool. I was taking a look at the trains in Europe because I'll probably go from Barcelona to Lourdes. Sadly, I believe I'll have lectures to give in July and cannot move them forward in schedule, so I'm not sure I"ll be able to make it to Darmstadt. :( I thought of getting a plane to Frankfurt then try a hotel reservation in the very same hotel of the conference, arriving one day before the conference start and leaving one day after the end.

yo'

"Do not use a valuable password as it will occasionally be emailed back to you in cleartext." -- tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tug2015-attendees

at least they tell you in advance :)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright: Any plans for TUG 2016?

yo'

10:22 AM

@PauloCereda where's it gonna be?

Paulo Cereda

@yo' I want to know as well. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda ah :)

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Ah

@PauloCereda I'm getting the train to Darmstadt I hope

Paulo Cereda

~~Because I'm working to host TUG 2017~~ I said nothing. :)

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda I believe that's going to be in Canada (there was a rumour)

yo'

10:23 AM

@PauloCereda that's not worth it, and this is really stooopid :((

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright No carpool from David? Boo.

:)

@yo' I know, but as I said, I have a busy schedule in here and could not spend too much time in Europe. :(

yo'

@PauloCereda you can't get 2 weeks of holidays? Find a substitute for teaching... we do that all the time

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda I could drive but it would be a lot of work

Paulo Cereda

@yo' No. :( Unless the lectures end before TUG.

yo'

@PauloCereda no! :(

@JosephWright and it's not quite cheap if you pay the Tunnel

Paulo Cereda

10:26 AM

@JosephWright Let's all get a Cinquecento (@egreg) and put 5 blokes in it and let's go to Darmstadt while singing songs about ducks. :)

@yo' :(

egreg

@PauloCereda Sorry, but my 600 bike is better. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg boo :)

@egreg: I was arriving at my dept last week and I saw an identical bike of yours! I thought, ooh egreg came to visit me. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda lol

@egreg 5 blokes on a bike? no problem...

Paulo Cereda

@yo' \expandafter

:)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda Joseph can take my car. If I go I'll probably fly

Joseph Wright

10:35 AM

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle Heathrow or Birmingham?

yo'

@JosephWright those people with choices or airports :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright it's an hour up the M40 in either case so whichever looks cheaper on the day I look.

egreg

@yo' Try that in Germany!

yo'

@egreg :) My mom used to drive like that with her brother and both parents. My granddad was of course driving

Joseph Wright

10:53 AM

@DavidCarlisle :-)

David Carlisle

11:08 AM

@JosephWright tex.stackexchange.com/questions/231080/…

LaTeX2e <2015/01/01>
Babel <3.9l> and hyphenation patterns for 79 languages loaded.
(/home/l3svn/latex2e-public/build/local/report.cls
Document Class: report 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class
(/home/l3svn/latex2e-public/build/local/size10.clo))
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/lipsum/lipsum.sty)
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amscls/amsthm.sty
Runaway argument?
\x@protect \[\protect \[  \@nil  \@ifpackageloaded {amstex}{\def \@tempa \ETC.
! Paragraph ended before \@tempa was complete.

@JosephWright I feel a \tracingall coming on, it works fine with 2014

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Something for me to do or ...?

@DavidCarlisle Ah

David Carlisle

@JosephWright not yet I'm just looking. I fear my plan of using2015 for MWE here is proving to be a good test:-)

simpler version:

\documentclass[a4paper]{report}
\usepackage{amsthm}


\stop

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle It's trying to patch \[ :-)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes

@JosephWright so no one has ever used fixltx2e with amsmath? interesting...

Joseph Wright

\def \@tempa ##1$##2##3\@nil {\def \[
{##1$##2\def \@currenvir {displaymath}##3}}\expandafter \@tempa \[\@nil

egreg

11:18 AM

@DavidCarlisle I never use fixltx2e because it conflicts with amsmath and amsthm, that's well known.

Joseph Wright

@egreg That's a bit of an issue: everyone should have been using fixltx2e really so this should have been fixed at the AMS end

@egreg Someone might have mentioned this before :-)

egreg

@JosephWright Oh, well, I forgot to. But, as I said, I never use fixltx2e.

Joseph Wright

@egreg @DavidCarlisle Problem only comes up if amsmath is not loaded (the \[ patch is conditional)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg : set lugosi-voice on

egreg

@JosephWright Yes, perhaps that's the reason: I always use both packages. I think to have something about that on the GuIT forum.

Joseph Wright

11:25 AM

@egreg Would explain it: probably most people do so if fixltx2e gets loaded they don't see the issue

@egreg For example fontspec loads fixltx2e but amsmath certainly works using XeLaTeX/LuaLaTeX in a 'standard' set up

@DavidCarlisle Issue for AMS?

egreg

@JosephWright I thought that fontspec doesn't load fixltx2e any more.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright possibly or we could cheat and use \protected instead of \makeRobust then he ams patch would probably work...

Joseph Wright

@egreg It seems not but it certainly used to

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that also occurred to me :-)

@DavidCarlisle Of course, \RequirePackage[2014/12/31]{latexrelease} also solves the problem

@DavidCarlisle Note that the amsthm change makes \[ fragile :-(

David Carlisle

@JosephWright team list again....

David Carlisle

11:45 AM

lets see what @barbarabeeton says...

Steven B. Segletes

11:56 AM

@1010011010 Apparantly, what I attempted could be done a lot more simply with \spaceskip and \xspaceskip. However, from my lack of experience, I was not able to recreate that effect with those parameters. I don't deserve any bounty for my answer, though feel free to offer one to entice others.

The next phase, if still interested, would be to set what I did in a trial box, use the tabto package to measure the final x-location, and recursively adjust the added space gap until the trial end of text corresponds to the right margin.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle, @egreg (others ...) Did you see the c.t.t. post from Bruno Voisin? Problems with frenchb.ldf assuming e-TeX as he's still using Textures :-)

I mean, it's only been finalised for 16 years!

egreg

@JosephWright I've not looked at the newsgroup for several weeks.

Joseph Wright

@egreg :-)

In short: is it possible to simulate \ifdefined in non-eTeX-based engines, and if yes, how?

Why: recent versions of babel's French package frenchb.ldf (I don't know exactly since when) make extensive use of \ifdefined. For those of us still using a non-eTeX based engine (in my case the venerable Textures), that is a major annoyance.

egreg

@JosephWright Easy answer: no.

@JosephWright Why would anybody still use Textures is unknown to me. Flash mode is not an excuse.

daleif

12:14 PM

I haven't gotten round to testing the 2015 stuff yet, and problably will not until late next week. Just wanted to note that mathtools also messes with robustness of some macros. That problably also have to be tested.

David Carlisle

12:26 PM

@daleif Thanks I'll look

@JosephWright why update your packages in that case?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle: I'm sure M is far more advanced than me regarding Minecraft, but I should say this Feed The Beast thingy looks quite challenging! Maybe M could take a look at it some time. :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright @daleif so we learn that (a) mathtools takes care to check these things before patching and (b) they forgot that spaces get ignored in L3 code:-) if you use mathtools with 2015 you get in the log:

< LaTeX Info: Thecontrolsequence`\('isalreadyrobust on input line 129.
< LaTeX Info: Thecontrolsequence`\)'isalreadyrobust on input line 129.

daleif

@DavidCarlisle, It is basically my very humble attempts. I think it was Andrew Swan that reported that $...$ wasn't really robust when the mathic option is used. Andrew is one of the few people I know that always uses the $...$ syntax. I think it was @JosephWright who helped with it in the end.

David Carlisle

@daleif we'll blame @JosephWright for the missing spaces then. Good to have someone to blame.

daleif

@DavidCarlisle, remember that mathtools is a bastard. It is mostly written in a semi LTX3 syntax. So it does switch spaces of on its own. Perhaps I'll attempt to convert it into proper LTX3 this coming summer.

Joseph Wright

12:57 PM

@egreg Production workflow I guess

yo'

@DavidCarlisle this currently has no reasonable solution either than using \space everywhere :-/

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle That was part of my 'likely response' to asking for a fix at the babel end

David Carlisle

@yo' you don't need \space use ~

yo'

@DavidCarlisle where? In \ProvidesExplClass I need <space>, but in \ProvidesExplFile I need ~, that's such a mess that I switched to \space in both.

David Carlisle

@yo' once you are in L3 code ~ is catcode 10 so is a space, but \Provides... might be read when coming in from a 2e convention document so ~ is not yet set up. But in messages and things you can use ~

yo'

1:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle yes, anywhere else it's fine, but in \Provides... you can't know from what context you come. So \space it is.

David Carlisle

@yo' after the revolution the document level usepackage will turn on l3 conventions just as currently it flips @ so your problem is a temporary historical blip.

@yo' or write \ExplSyntaxOn on the line above:-)

yo'

@DavidCarlisle temporary in the sense that it'll be there when I die? :D

David Carlisle

@yo' Your grandchildren will appreciate your pioneering spirit

yo'

@DavidCarlisle I thought about this and found it ridiculous. But I already do that with @, so...

David Carlisle

@yo' or make all your package identification strings in german, then you don't need spaces.

yo'

1:06 PM

@DavidCarlisle but I'd have to deal with non-standard letters :D

egreg

1:38 PM

Why doesn't $\textit{Some long text in italics}$ break across lines? Mystery. ;-)

yo'

@egreg a nice one indeeed :)

David Carlisle

@egreg because we use \hbox{} not \begingroup\endgroup (I'm sure the OP would feel enlightened if you answered in this way)

People should be banned from reading the texbook. tex.stackexchange.com/q/231088/1090

Paulo Cereda

Guys, am I missing something obvious? overleaf.com/2332445pffncv

yo'

1:54 PM

@PauloCereda I dunno, looking into it

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Thank you, Tom. :) I always managed to use \lettrine in that way, but I dunno why it's failing. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda looks like your tikz thing has zero size? (just looking at the output)

yo'

@PauloCereda you can't have \par after \begin{canto}

you need \ignorepar\ingorespaces, where \ignorepar doesn't exist as is

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle I dunno. :(

@yo' oh!

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda did you want to have no stretch space in parskip?

Paulo Cereda

2:00 PM

@DavidCarlisle I... don't know. :(

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda vv

*\showthe\smallskipamount
> 3.0pt plus 1.0pt minus 1.0pt.
<*> \showthe\smallskipamount

?

*\skip0=1.5\smallskipamount

*\showthe\skip0
> 4.5pt.
<*> \showthe\skip0

?

Paulo Cereda

Technical thingy. :)

yo'

\documentclass[a5paper,10pt]{extarticle}

\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}

\usepackage[top=1cm, bottom=1cm, left=1cm, right=1cm]{geometry}
\usepackage[brazilian]{babel}

\usepackage{tgpagella}
\usepackage{tgadventor}
\usepackage{lettrine}
\usepackage{xparse}
\usepackage{multicol}
\usepackage{tikz}

\newcounter{mysongscounter}
\setcounter{mysongscounter}{1}
\newcounter{songcounter}

\newcommand{\contador}{\resizebox{!}{\ht\strutbox}{%
\begin{tikzpicture}
\node [rectangle,
       rounded corners=2pt,

but it's "dirty"

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Holy cow it works! Thank you Tom. <3 Why it's dirty?

@DavidCarlisle I think I need that space. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda because you \global\let\par\something

this is a bit cleaner:

\documentclass[a5paper,10pt]{extarticle}

\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}

\usepackage[top=1cm, bottom=1cm, left=1cm, right=1cm]{geometry}
\usepackage[brazilian]{babel}

\usepackage{tgpagella}
\usepackage{tgadventor}
\usepackage{lettrine}
\usepackage{xparse}
\usepackage{multicol}
\usepackage{tikz}

\newcounter{mysongscounter}
\setcounter{mysongscounter}{1}
\newcounter{songcounter}

\newcommand{\contador}{\resizebox{!}{\ht\strutbox}{%
\begin{tikzpicture}
\node [rectangle,
       rounded corners=2pt,

egreg

2:02 PM

@PauloCereda I don't know what \lettrine is doing there, but probably you want this

\NewDocumentEnvironment{canto}{}
  {\par
  \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}%
  \parskip=1.5\smallskipamount
  \setcounter{songcounter}{0}%
  \ifnum\value{mysongscounter}=1 \hrule\vspace{1ex}\fi
  \lettrine[lines=2]{\contador}{}\par\nobreak\medskip
  }
  {\par\stepcounter{mysongscounter}\vspace{2ex}\hrule\vspace{1ex}}

yo'

@Paulo and please, suppress the \nonfrenchspacing between . and / in the verses. It's awful :D

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Thank you! :) I thought of exploiting \lettrine in order to display the song number near the text. I know it's an ugly hack and misuse of the command. :(

@yo' I will. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda It's possible to define an \ignorepar command.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Now it's getting more complicated. :) Complicateder. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda you may be safer printing the song header inside the first verse. That's not too difficult to achieve and you'd avoid the \par problem

Paulo Cereda

2:06 PM

@yo' Like injecting the header in the verse/chorus thingies and switch the display on/off according to which one is printed first?

@David, @egreg, @yo': Thank you guys, I'll try to improve this code. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda yes, something like \def\docontador{\lettrine{...}\let\docontador\relax\ignorespaces}

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Got it. :)

egreg

\NewDocumentEnvironment{canto}{}
  {%
   \par
   \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}%
   \parskip=1.5\smallskipamount
   \setcounter{songcounter}{0}%
   \ifnum\value{mysongscounter}=1\hrule\vspace{1ex}\fi
   \lettrine[lines=2]{\contador}{}\ignorepar
  }
  {\par\stepcounter{mysongscounter}\vspace{2ex}\hrule\vspace{1ex}}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\NewDocumentCommand{\ignorepar}{}
 {
  \peek_meaning_ignore_spaces:NT \par {\use_none:n}
 }
\ExplSyntaxOff

@PauloCereda ^^^^^

Paulo Cereda

@egreg WOW

yo'

I seem to be getting the number in the margin now, but that's lettrine to blame :D

Paulo Cereda

2:09 PM

@yo' ^^^

@egreg: if I manage to go to Darmstadt, I want to pay you a beer. Seriously. I'll go bankrupt but this beer has to be payed. :)

yo'

btw, \resizebox{!}{\ht\strutbox} may be a bit cleaner to read

@Paulo ^

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Cool, thanks!

yo'

@PauloCereda vv

\documentclass[a5paper,10pt]{extarticle}

\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}

\usepackage[top=1cm, bottom=1cm, left=1cm, right=1cm]{geometry}
\usepackage[brazilian]{babel}

\usepackage{tgpagella}
\usepackage{tgadventor}
\usepackage{lettrine}
\usepackage{xparse}
\usepackage{multicol}
\usepackage{tikz}

\newcounter{mysongscounter}
\setcounter{mysongscounter}{1}
\newcounter{songcounter}

\newcommand{\contador}{\resizebox{!}{\ht\strutbox}{%
\begin{tikzpicture}
\node [rectangle,
       rounded corners=2pt,

you only need to make letterine not misalign the first line (it's somewhere in the manual I think)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Tom, this is brilliant! I might get rid of lettrine with this!

yo'

@PauloCereda yes. You can use something like eTeX's \leftskips

@michal.h21 Hi there

Paulo Cereda

2:20 PM

@yo' Thanks, pal! :)

michal.h21

@yo' Hi all

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- not true (unfortunately!) -- amslatex/4143 in the latex bugs database was submitted in feb 2011 by will robertson, reporting that amsthm cannot be loaded after fixltx2e. and in may 2013, arthur reutenauer reported that this triggered a problem with polyglossia. i have no control over the scheduling of updates to amsthm and friends; have communicated with the latex team re latex2015.

David Carlisle

and today's tip is: don't paste several hundred lines of xml into an xterm

yo'

@michal.h21 @Paulo is not sure he'll come with us :-/ I hope I'll find a 3rd person (or even 4th one) in the car. I should ask @wipet: Are you coming to TUG2015 in Darmstadt? Would you use a car ride there from Prague?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :-)

yo'

2:22 PM

@DavidCarlisle :-D

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton pesky bugs database:-)

michal.h21

friend sent me his daughter!s book prepared in LaTeX: pro-barhuf.de/…

really unusal area

yo'

@michal.h21 Die Seite wurde nicht gefunden ah ok, it's only the link in the bottom, there's another one that works

michal.h21

@yo' I am not sure neither, because I don't have a room mate from april, so my financial situation is úretty bad

yo'

@michal.h21 ah :-/

michal.h21

2:26 PM

@yo' it is a book about horse shoes, if I undestand it correctly

yo'

well, I've got some cheap hotel rooms booked in Darmstadt (free cancellation until July 19, so it's fine) and I planned to go Sunday overnight to save one night, and leave on Thursday morning.

michal.h21

@yo' maybe you could ask on cstug mailing list, I am sure someone will want to go

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton would it help if you were given an explicit patch for amsthm (I don't have one to hand but we could get something tested)

yo'

@michal.h21 I will wait until your and @Paulo's situation is a bit clearer and then I'll see.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Obvious fix is to make sure the definition contains a $ :-)

egreg

2:33 PM

@PauloCereda Will they have beer there?

michal.h21

@yo' thanks

JamalS

I was writing a LaTeX document, and a noticed one of the paragraphs between equations was not properly justified. One of the words ran over the right-hand side, so LaTeX used a dash. Using ragged2e's '\justify' right before doesn't help, and the rest of my document is justified. After the paragraph, there's an equation, followed by a line of text, followed by a multline environment. Anyone have any suggestions?

Joseph Wright

@JamalS We'll need an example: the standard settings in LaTeX will justify (hyphenating when required)

JamalS

@JosephWright LaTeX hyphenates by default? Mine never has. I use ShareLaTeX and Overleaf.

Joseph Wright

@JamalS Doesn't matter: they still use LaTeX2e, it justifies as standard

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{lipsum} % For filler text
\begin{document}

\lipsum*[1]
\[ y = mx + c\]
\lipsum[2]

\end{document}

@JamalS As I said, an example will be required to help further :-)

JamalS

2:39 PM

@JosephWright Yeah, I'm going through my document now cutting stuff out bit by bit for a WE while still maintaining the bug.

Joseph Wright

@JamalS Good strategy :-)

JamalS

Well, I say bug, but it's probably my incompetence with LaTeX :-)

@JosephWright I see you're a chemist, mind if I ask a quick question?

Joseph Wright

@JamalS Fire away

yo'

@michal.h21 well, you're welcome. I mean, I really wanna go and I don't wanna pay all by myself :-) And my experience is: Book a hotel, cheap with free cancellation. All other things can be sorted out later.

JamalS

@JosephWright I'm a physicist, but I have to take a chemistry course, and I did a practical looking at the conductivity of strong acids with different concentrations. The literature suggests a $\sqrt{x}$ relation between the conductivity and concentration, but my data looks more like an inverse gamma distribution. It seems the relation is only for low concentrations. I haven't been able to find any papers that extend the model. Any thoughts?

Joseph Wright

2:45 PM

@DavidCarlisle Possible fix for amsthm:

\def\@tempa#1$$#2#3$$#4\@nil{%#
  \ifx\relax#4\relax
    \PackageWarning{amsthm}{Failed to patch \string\[}%
  \else
    \def\[{#1$$#2\def\@currenvir{displaymath}#3}%
  \fi
}%
\expandafter\@tempa\[$$?$$\@nil

JamalS

The reason I ask is because there are many functions that I can use as a regression curve, even a simple quadratic, but I'd like to actually compare the data to a theoretical model.

By the way, I considered HCl and H2SO4 in the range 1 - 5 molar.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes I wondered about that. If AMS can't update amsthm can we really make it equivalent to this in the format?

\RequirePackage{fixltx2e}
\makeatletter
\expandafter\def\expandafter\[\expandafter{\[\@gobble$\@empty\@empty}
\makeatother
\documentclass[a4paper]{report}
\usepackage{amsthm,amsmath}


\stop

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle A bit odd but I guess it works

@JamalS So quite strong then

David Carlisle

@JosephWright but then it always fails in a new format?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle It gives a warning (could be an info)

@DavidCarlisle I guess you mean 'fails to define \@currenvir'?

@DavidCarlisle Alternative is to test for \[<space>

David Carlisle

2:52 PM

@JamalS what do you mean by "used a dash" a vertical rule marking an over-full box (just used if you use [draft] normally) or a hyphen (which seems at odds with you saying it doesn't hyphenate?)

Joseph Wright

@JamalS Square root relationship sounds right for a strong electrolyte

JamalS

@DavidCarlisle Hyphen.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes gives a warning that it fails, as opposed to not failing:-)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- if it's not too much trouble, it would certainly give me a better feeling that i've done everything i possibly could to get this underway. but the final decision is still up to management and scheduling. let's take this discussion back to mail. (you are now whitelisted; your first message this morning landed in my spam bucket.)

David Carlisle

@JamalS but you said "mine never does" when Joseph said latex hyphenates by default??

yo'

2:54 PM

@barbarabeeton Can I ask you, are papers in AMS Colloquium lectures indexed by MathSciNet?

JamalS

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's correct. But this one paragraph is doing that.

That's why I'm so perplexed.

David Carlisle

@JamalS I can't even guess:-) make an example....

@JosephWright I was going to suggest checking if \[<space> is defined, and if it is patch that rather than \[

JamalS

@JosephWright This data doesn't behave like $\sqrt{x}$ though.

yo'

@JamalS around zero it does

Joseph Wright

@JamalS You've got far too much electrolyte in there: the assumption for a sqrt relationship is a strong electrolyte, i.e. full dissociation

@yo' Exactly

JamalS

2:59 PM

@yo' Yes, but I'm looking for a model that extends beyond that region

Joseph Wright

@JamalS Have you heard of 'activity' in relation to solution species?

JamalS

@JosephWright Yes.

Joseph Wright

@JamalS Cool

@JamalS Most relationships in solution chemistry are really about activity not concentration, and this is a good example

@JamalS At 50% by weight of the solution you simply can't make the usual 'dilute solution' assumptions

JamalS

Ah, I've found a paper by Onsager from the 50s which may be useful.

barbara beeton

@yo' -- depends on what you mean by "ams colloquium lectures". if you mean the colloquium lectures delivered at the annual joint math meetings, they aren't necessarily published in the same book series. the ams "colloquium" series was originally established for that, but there are exceptions both ways (books containing material not presented in the formal lectures, and some of the lectures i believe never get published, at least not by ams).

a book in the "colloquium" series would definitely be reviewed in mathscinet. and if published somewhere else, i think it very likely, but it may not be easily identifiable as originating from a colloquium lecture.

have you got an example i can use to check?

yo'

3:09 PM

@barbarabeeton August 1989, Boulder, CO, William P. Thurston, Princeton University, Geometry, groups, and self-similar tilings. Taken from ams.org/meetings/lectures/meet-colloquium-lect

barbara beeton

3:22 PM

@yo' -- thanks for the reference. unfortunately, i can't find any record that these lectures were ever written up for formal publication, and that's all that mathscinet covers. apparently, there were lecture notes distributed at the time, as evidenced by a bibliography entry in this 2011 article in the transactions of the ams. sorry i can't help more.

yo'

@barbarabeeton it's a funny thing because the lecture was a break-through in my topic of interest and we all cite it

ah I now see I've got a scan of it actually! (I hope it's not a copyright infringement)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- well, yes. colloquium lecturers are chosen because they generally have come up with breakthrough concepts. but there are quite a few mathematicians who for some (personal?) reason don't publish, but leave the writing up of their ideas to their students and colleagues. (glad you've got a scan. don't worry about the copyright as long as you don't actually plagiarize. you can use the ref from the article i mentioned as a model for a biblio entry.)

yo'

@barbarabeeton ok, thanks. No, I don't plagiarize, it's the other way around. Thurston has made a lot of work and it should be acknowledged, but I don't like to cite things I've never seen.

and I remember now where I got it from: a friend had the same problem as I, and decided to find some library in the world that has it and is willing to send it. He then scanned it and distributed among friends. I think he told me that Thurston himself wrote him a mail and thanked him for finding it, since Th. lost it himself :)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- i certainly didn't mean to imply that you would plagiarize! and citing things one has never seen can get one into real hot water! i was going to suggest that you might contact the authors of the paper i pointed to, but since you've got it, that's not necessary. and thanks for the bit of history! (mathematicians can be absent minded as well as graphically reticent.)

yo'

@barbarabeeton well, Pierre Arnoux visits my current department once a month or so :-)