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12:02 AM
@PauloCereda Are you around?
 
Hi everyone :-) @StefanKottwitz: I just saw in the Packt Publishing web site that your "LaTeX Beginner's Guide" is available for free today (4-mar-2015) - packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning - and I see that you're chatting about that here...
2
 
^^^ more people need to know about this
 
@StefanKottwitz (and everyone): ... I now have a "meta-meta" question: would it be appropriate to post an announcement about this "free only today" in meta.tex.stackexchange.com ?
 
@ricmarques sure
 
@StefanKottwitz: Great, thanks! :-) Would you like to write that post, or do you prefer that someone else does it?
 
12:10 AM
@ricmarques @StefanKottwitz I considered it too – but I don't think it would be appropriate
The Meta site isn't a community mailer
 
@SeanAllred: Right, I have doubts about if that's appropriate ... That's why I said that I have a "meta-meta question" regarding that :-)
 
@ricmarques XD asking never hurts
 
@SeanAllred A book by a site moderator could be a site related meta post
 
@StefanKottwitz That's really stretching it, in my honest opinion
@StefanKottwitz it's feasible that you won't have time to be moderator next year, at which time the reasoning would be outdated
still…
Could write up a blog post about it really quick?
On the TeX.SX blog?
@PauloCereda ^^^ ?
(you're the only one I remember being involved with the blog)
 
@SeanAllred: +1 for creating the blog post ...
 
12:14 AM
@SeanAllred outdated posts can be deleted or closed
 
I guess one way of posting the announcement would be to post a "Meta question" asking: "What would be good ways to promote the free availability during 4-mar-2015 of Latex Beginner's Guide?" ;-)
 
just writing something up ...
 
@ricmarques Can you link me to that?
 
so one post at latex-community.org frontpage now
 
12:17 AM
@TorbjørnT. Thanks
 
@StefanKottwitz are there any restrictions on distributing copies once the file has been downloaded?
 
@Canageek As @TorbjørnT. has just posted. The link is packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning I don't know if it's "time-zone dependent" (for me this book there appeared as the clock turned mid-night here in Lisbon, Portugal)
 
@GonzaloMedina As with any copyrighted ebook you buy and the publisher owns rights
 
@GonzaloMedina Besides, a secondary goal in this promotion (as I understand it) is to indicate commercial interest in the topic for a second edition.
 
@GonzaloMedina The publisher wants to get new customers, people to register and possibly by other things, not giving rights away
@GonzaloMedina better tell people to download than to produce copies
 
12:21 AM
yup yup.
 
@StefanKottwitz Right. And I saw now that the book does include the warning "All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, without the prior written permission of the publisher, except in the case of brief quotations embedded in critical articles or reviews." in the first page .
 
@ricmarques putting on my legally-informed hat: we are now technically bound to keep the ebook in RAM :)
 
@ricmarques We are bound by that. But today we are free to tell anybody to get it for free :-) I will make a blog post
@SeanAllred stream it ;-)
 
@SeanAllred LOL ! :)
 
@StefanKottwitz Yes. I'll do that. Thanks for the heads up about the promotion!
 
12:25 AM
@StefanKottwitz Sure! :-) Spreading the word about its availability is totally OK (heck, even Packt Publishing advertises this promotion in its web site, Facebook account, Twitter account...)
 
yo'
@ricmarques so it seems you're not allowed to back it up on DropBox then :) @Stefan
 
Hey... I just noticed now there's already a Blog Post posted on 21-feb-2015 about this in the "TeX Community Blog" - tex.blogoverflow.com/2015/02/…
 
yo'
Thanks @Stefan of course!
 
@yo': Eheh
@yo': Right, the Blog Post has been posted by @StefanKottwitz - Hats off to him! :-)
 
yo'
@ricmarques the book has been written by him and he's convinced the publisher to do this!
 
12:36 AM
Stefan Kottwitz on March 04, 2015

As announced a week ago, the ebook version of “LaTeX Beginner’s Guide” written by me is available for download today, March 4, 2015.

There’s some background information on LaTeX-Community.org and specifically in a forum thread.

Some details, simply copied from what I provided to the publisher earlier:

About This Book

Use LaTeX’s powerful features to produce professionally designed texts

Install LaTeX; download, set up, and use additional styles, templates, and tools

Typeset math formulas and scientific expressions to the highest standards …

5
 
@yo': Ah... Right. I knew @StefanKottwitz was the author, as my first message in this chat session today shows - chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/20355717#20355717 :-)
@StefanKottwitz So, I guess I'll make it official: you have now reached a new level of Awesomeness :-)
 
@ricmarques Thanks! I'm working on the next book. :-)
 
@StefanKottwitz Cool :-) Let me guess the title: "LaTeX EXPERT'S Guide" ? ;-)
 
I wish.
 
@ricmarques Just a humble LaTeX Cookbook with a hundred reciped or so, for getting things done
 
12:42 AM
@StefanKottwitz That's a good idea :)
 
@StefanKottwitz A LaTeX Cookbook (with LaTeX recipes) sounds really great! :-) And, if you want an idea for yet another book, I guess you can create a REAL Cookbook with actual food recipes ("MasterChef style") in LaTeX as well: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/20549/a-cookbook-in-latex ;-)
 
Hehehe – that's actually a neat idea to layout the book as a literal recipe-book
 
@SeanAllred: Indeed :-)
Well, it's way past my bed time now. Take care everyone! @StefanKottwitz: congrats and thanks again! :-)
 
@ricmarques take care!
@StefanKottwitz Yours is officially the first published book I have on LaTeX. Would you mind if, at some point in the future, I did a video lecture series on it? The general idea is something I've been meaning to do, but I haven't had time to prepare material.
And out of curiosity, are you able to access download stats for your book?
 
1:03 AM
@SeanAllred I don't have access to the stats
@SeanAllred I'm fine with all, just the publisher is involved
 
@StefanKottwitz Ahh, fair fair. Makes sense :) I'll ask when I have the time to actually follow through, hehe
New job is keeping me very busy
 
yo'
1:45 AM
git push and good night, all!
4
 
 
4 hours later…
6:08 AM
hello, please using tikz how to obtain an equivalence with a colorful side?
 
 
2 hours later…
yo'
8:33 AM
morning, everybody! :)
 
9:27 AM
@yo' morning (although for some people it isn't:-)
 
@yo' Yo!
 
morning
@JosephWright \def\unit#1{{\rm#1}}\def\qty#1#2{#1\,\unit{#2}} is this already in math-mode?
 
@LaRiFaRi I'm assuming 'to be used in math mode': plain doesn't have \ensuremath
 
ok
just out of interest. Thought so
thanks
 
@LaRiFaRi @egreg would point out that in general you should be clear on whether things are math mode or not
@LaRiFaRi For siunitx I do allow 'flexibility' in the same scenario but that is LaTeX where we do have \ensuremath and where the balance of mark-up seems about right
@LaRiFaRi I'll add that to my comment
 
9:42 AM
@JosephWright Yes, I am always clear about math or not. But when writing some command, I try to serve my laziness as much as I can... So if I can avoid the $$... Why not? But egreg is right. It's always best to stay clear
 
@LaRiFaRi Yes, but for say a lot of scientific data, as I write, having $\qty{10}{mg}$, is a bit silly if just \qty{10}{mg} can work: the mark-up is clear
 
@JosephWright Absolutely. Your edited comment is confusing. Thought, ensuremath does not exist. We should stick to plain in this post
@JosephWright if anything, just edit that this has to be used in $$
 
@LaRiFaRi Hopefully improved
 
@JosephWright yes. Thanks.
 
I just got a tick for defining \def\\{hello} far too technical for @egreg.
 
9:57 AM
@egreg, @DavidCarlisle c.t.t. thread about \ifdefined/e-TeX rumbles on: amazing that this is still an issue!
 
10:08 AM
@GonzaloMedina I am now. :)
@SeanAllred I'm lost on what's happening. :)
 
11:05 AM
@JosephWright I should look I suppose
 
@DavidCarlisle Not really that vital: just worth knowing that there are people out there still using TeX90 with LaTeX
 
@JosephWright Would you like to let your blog readers know about the free book today? You could link to the LC frontpage with more infos and the longer forum thread (publicly readable) if you don't want wo make many words
 
@StefanKottwitz OK
 
@JosephWright just got to end of thread, seems a mix of discussing whether \ifdefined in general can be emulated and whether the tests in that file could be written without.
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, quite true, with expected grumbles from some regulars about the usefulness of \ifdefined
 
yo'
11:13 AM
@percusse Are you around please? Don't you know if the Dutch name Charlene's initial is "Ch." or "C."?
 
11:49 AM
I don't know any occasions that a name has two-letter initials. Is it a French thingy?
 
@percusse Seen also in German, I think
@percusse Certainly in transliterated Russian :-)
 
@JosephWright :-)
Chat on the phone feels really weird. I'm chatting egreg style from the train.
 
12:10 PM
@percusse @JosephWright, also seen in Danish from time to time. Though it depends on the circumstances. For example Johs. for Johannes (that one is a bit strange)
 
yo'
12:28 PM
@JosephWright yes, seen in German too because the German dictionary has some extra letters :)
In Czech, it's used only for "Ch". In French, I'm not sure, but for "Ch" it's always the case since it's always either "k" or "sh" (i.e., one sound).
 
12:39 PM
Is there a generic "torture test" file to exercise one's unicode-math setup? The closest thing I've found is unimath-symbols.ltx distributed in the source part of the tree with unicode-math.
Any better options about?
 
12:50 PM
ahh, yet another reason why \macro{}{}{many many lines} is bad (use envs), synctex ends up en odd places when doing reverse search. Is converting a manuscript into using envs instead (long live elisp)
 
1:12 PM
@PaulGessler A present that's the best there is
 
@JosephWright OK got it, thanks. Also, after I posted my GitHub issue I noticed a related issue that was reported at the end of October, still open. I linked them together since I think egreg's solution will fix that case as well.
 
@PaulGessler Give me a few minutes and I'll sort out a pull request
 
@PauloCereda Stefan's book is currently free from the publisher and a few of us in chat were trying to get the word out. Someone suggested Meta, but we weren't sure if it was appropriate. The blog was suggested, but I personally didn't know how that would work so I pinged you since you work with it a lot :)
 
yo'
Tell me, do you think we would use a "this question is quite trivial, can I suggest you to read some LaTeX tutorial" text building block?
 
1:37 PM
@StevenB.Segletes why did you delete? Oh it's back:-)
 
1:57 PM
@SeanAllred Oh I see! A blogpost about it?
 
@PaulGessler I see that Will actually fixed the code some time ago but there's been no release to CTAN. I've mailed Will to ask for one!
 
@DavidCarlisle I deleted because I initially had the \let inside the environment which caused it not to restart properly the 2nd invocation. Until I figured it out, I thought best to delete.
 
@JosephWright yep, I saw your comment with the link to the commit. That fix came even before the issue was originally reported! I should have looked at the current code first. Anyway, it seems he's been poked about this from multiple directions now, so I'm hoping for a release soon. :-) Thanks for your help.
 
@PaulGessler I think the fix was from when I raised this with Will before :-)
 
@JosephWright Shall we have the session next Saturday?
 
yo'
2:21 PM
@egreg what type of \dots would you use in "... is the iterated image $f(f(\dots f(x)\dots))$." ?
 
@yo' Probably explicit \cdots
 
@StevenB.Segletes as it deleted I was just writing a comment to the effect that it is most underhand to quote one of my answers on a different question as a reason for posting a competing answer on this one:-)
 
yo'
@egreg ok, thanks. I agree, I just wanted to be sure :)
 
2:35 PM
Joseph Wright has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
yo'
Hey have you seen this? @David @Paulo :) puzzlemaster.ca/browse/inventors/engel/305-cast-cricket
 
@DavidCarlisle Mea maxima culpa. But I made it "new and improved" by placing it in an environment.
 
yo'
@Null good choice for a movie :)
 
2:55 PM
@StevenB.Segletes :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle While I am sure the anguish is great at having one of your own answers used to compete against another of your answers, I would only provide solace in the words of Oscar Wilde: "The only thing worse than being talked about... is not being talked about."
 
 
1 hour later…
cfr
4:23 PM
@yo' Ch is only one letter in Welsh...
 
yo'
@cfr it's one letter in many laguages, but it seems that this particular lady uses "C" as an initial, and not "Ch", so no matter what are the rules, I'll use what she does :-)
 
cfr
Does anybody know a good alternative to pdftk? It is not available on Fedora anymore. Specifically, I want a command line thingie which has at least the functionality of pdftk input.pdf cat n-m output output.pdf (m>=n).
 
yo'
@cfr is it not available? it that a recent thing?
 
Folks who like memoir: would you say that texdoc memoir is the best introduction to it?
 
@cfr Don't think you can claim its one letter other than in say Cyrillic where it's a transliteration :-) Used to represent one phoneme, perhaps?
 
yo'
4:28 PM
@JosephWright It is one letter in the Czech alphabet, placed between H and I:
Česká abeceda je soubor všech písmen, která jsou používána v grafické soustavě češtiny. Čeština používá 42 písmen, tedy 26 písmen základní latinky doplněných písmeny s třemi různými diakritickými znaménky, háčkem (ˇ), čárkou (´) a kroužkem (°). Speciální postavení má ch, které je počítáno mezi 42 písmen české abecedy, fakticky je to ale spřežka (digraf). Písmena q a w se užívají pouze ve slovech cizího původu a při počešťování (zdomácnění) se zpravidla převádějí na jiné znaky (kv a v). Historicky v češtině téměř ztratilo opodstatnění ó, používá se pouze u citoslovcí, případně označuje kvantitu…
 
@SeanAllred This is also good: more $(kpsewhich memoir.cls)
 
@DavidCarlisle Very funny :)
something to be said for that, though
 
@SeanAllred it is much closer to what I really use when answering questions here.
 
@DavidCarlisle Indeed. Also closely resembles most of my self-answers to emacs questions I have.
 
cfr
@JosephWright Not sure what 'letter' means in that case. Why can't it be one letter?
@yo' Same in Welsh. It is between C and D. So 'chwech' is after 'cwt' if you put things in alphabetical order, and 'chwech' is not found under 'C' in the dictionary - it is, naturally, under 'Ch'. The same is true for other letters e.g. 'Dd', 'Ff, 'Ng', 'Ll', 'Rh' etc. Except that there is no 'Ng' section in a dictionary because no unmutated words begin with 'Ng'. If you put things in alphabetical order, 'ng' is between 'g' and 'h'.
 
4:41 PM
@cfr I'm I guess taking a chemists view here: 'Ch' is clearly decomposable into two letters 'C' and 'h', both of which are available in the set of symbols used to represent Welsh. Cyrillic is different as two Latin letters may be used to represent in transliteration a single Cyrillic one.
 
yo'
@cfr :-)
 
cfr
@yo' Dunno. It is not available in Fedora 21. It was in 19. I didn't use 20.
 
@yo' I don't speak Czech so I'll take your word for this
 
yo'
@JosephWright the alphabet is listed there: A, Á, B, C, Č, D, Ď, E, É, Ě, F, G, H, Ch, I, Í, J, K, L, M, N, Ň, O, Ó, P, Q, R, Ř, S, Š, T, Ť, U, Ú, Ů, V, W, X, Y, Ý, Z, Ž.
 
@cfr For example, 'th' is used in English to represent thorn, which we don't use any more, but you would not call 'th' a single letter
 
yo'
4:43 PM
@JosephWright because you decided so :)
 
cfr
@JosephWright But it is not decomposable into two letters. Moreover, there are cases where you may get something which looks like one of these letters but which is actually two. English doesn't have these.
 
i believe the difference is the difference between a letter and a glyph
 
cfr
That is, English has the two-cases but not things like 'Ch'.
@SeanAllred 'Ch' is two glyphs, but not two letters? That seems right.
 
yo'
@SeanAllred yep: glyph, letter and ... (what is the third thing?)
 
@yo' whatisit
:)
 
yo'
4:44 PM
@PauloCereda :)
 
@PauloCereda XD
 
@cfr Sorry, but with classical type I bet it's done using two blocks, so two letters
 
@JosephWright Would you call 'ae' two letters?
 
@SeanAllred Yes
 
yo'
@SeanAllred in which language? :) In Latin, no. In French, yes.
 
4:45 PM
it's often done with one block though
@yo' Latin
 
@SeanAllred Classical Latin doesn't use the ae ligature I think you are thinking of :-)
 
as far as I understand a block -- that's just a piece of metaltype, right?
 
@SeanAllred Yes, akin to a codepoint in Unicode I suppose
What we need here is a linguist: where is @AlanMunn when you need him :-)
 
yo'
@SeanAllred so fi is two letters but one block
 
@yo' yes
@JosephWright in reference to this logic
 
yo'
4:47 PM
@JosephWright well, the argue is useless: it can be the case that something is a letter in one language but 2 letters in another language :)
 
cfr
A B C Ch D Dd E F Ff G Ng H I L Ll M N O P Ph R Rh S T Th U W Y. That type is used in a particular way hardly establishes that they are or are not letters. (Or, rather, if that's all you mean by 'letter' then, fine. But that'll be true for Cyrillic, too.)
 
@yo' That's the core question: is that true if they use the same character set?
 
cfr
Welsh orthography uses 28 letters (including eight digraphs) of the Latin script to write native Welsh words as well as older loanwords. The acute accent (Welsh: acen ddyrchafedig), the grave accent (Welsh: acen ddisgynedig), the circumflex (Welsh: acen grom/to bach) and the diaeresis mark (Welsh: didolnod) are also used on vowels, but accented letters are not regarded as part of the alphabet. The letter j was only more recently accepted into Welsh orthography for those words borrowed from English in which the /dʒ/ sound is retained in Welsh, even where that sound is not represented by j in English...
 
yo'
@JosephWright well, if you want it from another perspective: a Czech address book or dictionary will have a separate Ch section after the H one.
 
4:49 PM
@yo' Interesting point.
 
cfr
@yo' As with Welsh....
 
yo'
@SeanAllred it will also have Š, Č, Ř, Ž, Ď, Ť, Ň, Ý, Á, Í, É, Ó, Ú, Ý (no Ě and Ů tho since no words start with these letters)
 
@yo' My favourite is the U with the little circle above. :)
Because cows use it. :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda bůůůůůůůůůůů
 
@yo' yes, Yes, YES!!!!!!!
 
4:52 PM
@yo' analogous to 'moo'?
 
yo'
@SeanAllred yes. I've never understood why English cows pronounce an "m"
 
@yo' Czech gets mentioned in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme: it seems that mainly one letter means one character (which I hope we can agree on!), but there is some wiggle room :-)
 
@SeanAllred Picture Czech cows with sunglasses and doing bů Samuel L. Jackson style. :)
2
 
@yo' Have you ever listened to a cow?
 
4:53 PM
Those cows are awesome.
 
@yo' I'd say a nasal n is closer, but ...
 
yo'
@JosephWright many times. and they start with "b"
 
@yo' They actually sound like that to me. :)
 
yo'
@JosephWright well, that's the problem: there's no consonant at the beginning really.
 
@yo' I only know how I do cow impressions :-)
@yo' It's not just 'ooo'
 
4:55 PM
@JosephWright Dinosaur! Grrrrrrr!
 
yo'
but we agree that ewes do "mé é é é é é é é é é", right?
@JosephWright IMHO it is, moreorless.
 
@yo' baa
@yo' Broadly that's how I do sheep, yes :-)
 
cfr
@JosephWright Mainly but not always in Welsh or Czech or... Note that there are other letter-combos for single sounds which are not considered letters e.g. mh, si etc. [Also, Welsh has 29 letters if you include 'J' or 28 if you go with the alphabet I gave above.]
 
@yo' Lambs, anyway: sheep are lower
 
@JosephWright I always heard it as more of a mreeeeehhhh
 
yo'
4:57 PM
@JosephWright so sheep do "b" but cows do "m"? Or did I lose you?
 
@yo' No, that's right. Classical English descriptions are 'cows go moo, sheep go baa'
@SeanAllred Depends on the sheep [I have in the past spent some time confusing sheep, who seem to be easy to imitate :-)]
 
yo'
@JosephWright well, the true problem is that "m" and "b" are both made by lips, and are actually very close in sound.
 
cfr
@JosephWright You took an interesting career pathway into academia.
 
@cfr I don't think sounds come into this (that's phonemes)
 
cfr
@JosephWright Exactly. That was my point.
 
5:00 PM
@cfr Remember I'm planning 'Adventures in Unicodeland' for TUG2015: getting this stuff right is something I am bothered about :-)
 
yo'
@JosephWright well, the easiest is Serbian: it's strictly phonetic, one glyph per grapheme, one grapheme per phoneme.
 
cfr
@JosephWright I was just disputing your earlier suggestion...
 
@cfr I'm guessing Welsh does not have any special case changing rules?
 
@JosephWright That is such a fantastic talk title
 
@yo' I suspect there are others (Japanese written in Latin script comes to mind)
 
yo'
5:01 PM
@JosephWright Neither doez Czech, for that sake. All accents are preserved etc.
 
@yo' Yeah, I'm wondering about the accents business for, for example, French
 
cfr
@JosephWright What are special case changing rules?
 
yo'
@JosephWright but needed to say, it's funny, because it means I can fluently read Serbian without knowing what it is
 
@cfr For example the business that 'IJ' at the start of words is treated as a single entity when title casing in Dutch, or the final-sigma rule in Greek, or ...
@cfr Anything that doesn't follow a single standard set of mappings, really
@cfr For example, if ch is a single letter in Welsh is it title cased as 'CH' or as 'Ch' (at the start of a word)?
 
yo'
@JosephWright you wanna know? The official (pre-typewriter) way is that you preserve all accents but circumflex (ô) and trema (ï), so you preserve aigu (é), grave (à) and cedille (ç) -- well, at least that's what one French guy interested in typography told me.
 
cfr
5:04 PM
@JosephWright No... You'd write 'Ch...' or 'Ng...'.
 
@cfr Good: no special rules needed :-)
 
yo'
@cfr Same with Czech "Ch", for that sake :)
 
cfr
@JosephWright Mutations are bad enough...
 
@yo' I suspected so (it's not in the Unicode core docs) but you never know
@yo' Interesting: when I learned French we were told drop all accents in upper case, which was handy for crosswords :-)
 
yo'
@JosephWright that has a lot to do with the reason why French uses AZERTY keyboard :)
Les écouteurs sont un dispositif contenant un transducteur que l'on place dans l'oreille, ou que l'on accroche à celle-ci pour l'écoute de sons. On dit aussi oreillettes. On les appelle parfois aussi « casque » par analogie de fonction avec le casque audio. == Intra-auriculaire == Ce sont des écouteurs qui ont la particularité d'avoir les transducteurs directement dans le canal auditif quand ils sont placés dans l'oreille. Ils ont une partie en caoutchouc ou en mousse qui permet de mieux isoler l'oreille et de mieux percevoir le son. == But == Éviter les nuisances sonores extérieures et avoir un...
^^ for example
Note that Czech commonly drops all accents in online communication such as comments, chat, IM and informal e-mails
 
5:11 PM
@yo' Of course, we then ask the question 'have there been different conventions over time', cf. the Eszett business for German
@yo' :-)
 
yo'
@JosephWright yes, but the reason was that while typewriters were able to type miniscule accented letters, they weren't able to type their majuscule counterparts (the accent would clash with the letter), so they started dropping them.
 
@yo' Indeed
 
yo'
Note that this has never been an issue with 'ç' and 'Ç', so they alwyas write "Ça va? -- Ça va, et toi"
but it would be "Ecoute-moi! -- J'écoute" on a typewriter. Before the typewriter time, it would be the correct "Écoute-moi! -- J'écoute".
 
@yo' Certainly it's not mentioned in the main Unicode docs so is probably something I don't need to worry about :-)
 
yo'
@JosephWright :)
 
5:41 PM
@GonzaloMedina: Hi Gonzalo! Do you know where I can find more info about ExpoLaTeX? The official website does not say much. :(
 
@PauloCereda It has been postponed. I will take place in 2016 (some time during the first months). You have no excuse now! You can go to Germany this year and to Peru next one.
 
@GonzaloMedina Oh my!
 
@PauloCereda What would you like to know about ExpoLaTeX? I can ask one of the organizers.
 
@GonzaloMedina Nothing much, actually. :) I'd like know about the dates, the place, etc. :)
 
yo'
btw, confess who starred the git push comment! It's not a funny one at all! :D
 
5:46 PM
@PauloCereda The date is yet to confirm. Tomorrow night I will talk via Skype with the organizer and surely he will tell me in more detail dates, places, etc.
 
@GonzaloMedina No worries, I was just curious. :)
Because... reasons.
:P
 
@PauloCereda I think I might now one of those reasons? :)
 
@GonzaloMedina I was checking flight prices. :)
Unless I go there by bike. Andes might be a problem though. Where are my hiking boots? :)
 
@PauloCereda How much would it cost you? Are flight prices expensive in Brazil?
 
@GonzaloMedina Everything is expensive in Brazil. :) I think it would be around US$ 500 - US$ 600 to go to Peru.
(return included)
 
5:50 PM
@PauloCereda return inclided? Oh, my! That's nothing. That's the price just to go from Colombia! Here flight prices climb to the clouds!
 
@GonzaloMedina Forget about Peru then, I'm gonna go to your place and get my free sombrero! :)
@egreg, @JosephWright, @yo', @David: nananananana I'll get my free sombrero
:)
 
@PauloCereda free sombrero, poncho and carriel. Don't forget.
 
@GonzaloMedina woooooooo
 
yo'
troubles with google. they're idiots.
 
@yo' ?
 
6:03 PM
@yo': I haven't asked this to you, do you enjoy the 12 days of TeX Christmas? :)
 
yo'
@JosephWright they blocked me from my account for a while. Didn't I have my cell phone here (which could easily happen), I wouldn't be on mail at all.
now I gotta go I'm 5 minutes late for the TCS+ talk
 
@PauloCereda one for your songbook
\ deixe ~ \ catcode ~ `76 ~` A13 ~ `F1 ~` j00 ~ `P2jdefA71F ~` 7113jdefPALLF
PA''FwPA;; FPAZZFLaLPA // 71F71iPAHHFLPAzzFenPASSFthP; A $$ FevP
A@@FfPARR717273F737271P; ADDFRgniPAWW71FPATTFvePA ** FstRsamP
AGGFRruoPAqq71.72.F717271PAYY7172F727171PA ?? Fi * IMPA && 71jfi
Fjfi71PAVVFjbigskipRPWGAUU71727374 75,76Fjpar71727375Djifx
: 76jelse & U76jfiPLAKK7172F71l7271PAXX71FVLnOSeL71SLRyadR @ oL
? RrhC yLRurtKFeLPFovPgaTLtReRomL; PABB71 72,73: Fjif.73.jelse
B73: jfiXF71PU71 72,73: PWS; AMM71F71diPAJJFRdriPAQQFRsreLPAI
@PauloCereda ^^ Portuguese version of the song.
@JosephWright no movement on etex or amsthm or memoir (but at least a day without adding any more to the list)
 
! Misplaced alignment tab character &.
l.4 ....72.F717271PAYY7172F727171PA ?? Fi * IMPA &
                                                  & 71jfi
@DavidCarlisle: ^^ boo :)
 
@DavidCarlisle You could rewrite xii so as to give the user the chance to choose a language-dependent Christmas carol.
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes
@DavidCarlisle Nothing from Peter B. directly to you then?
 
6:22 PM
This seems to be consensus
preamble means between \documentclass and \begin{document}David Carlisle 25 mins ago
 
@DavidCarlisle -- i guess you haven't been reading your e-mail. movement on amsthm may be slow, but it's nonzero.
 
But is there a name for what comes before \documentclass?
The pre-preamble?
 
@GonzaloMedina -- i've got words to that song in latin that i could contribute to the cause. only have them on paper, so i'd have to scan them.
 
Hi, @StefanKottwitz. Any idea on the number of downloads?
 
6:42 PM
@GonzaloMedina Finally entered into the chat room.
 
44 mins ago, by yo'
troubles with google. they're idiots.
@barbarabeeton no I was at work:-) hang on...
@barbarabeeton oh Ok thanks I probably don't need to test, if it works in your current latex with fixltx2e, it'll be fine. But if you want to send me something that's Ok as well
 
@DavidCarlisle I was curious to see the song. :(
@DavidCarlisle OH I SEE NOW!
D'oh.
I'm stupid. :)
 
@PauloCereda but smarter than your average duck
@PauloCereda did it translate "let" correctly?
 
@DavidCarlisle It did!
 
@PauloCereda that's something then
 
6:54 PM
@DavidCarlisle I was expecting catcode to become código felino. :)
 
What is the best way to auto-extract a concise error message from a TeX log file? Just look for lines starting with !? Is there a way to control what gets written in the log file to make this easier?
 
@Szabolcs classically ! is it. web2c based tex have [-no]-file-line-error disable/enable file:line:error style messages command line flags that make it use a different format to be a bit easier to handle parsing for errors in multi-file documents
 
@DavidCarlisle Thank you, that was not listed by pdflatex -help but it works.
 
@Szabolcs tex --help was exactly what I copied the above line from;-)
 
You're right, it's indeed there ... feeling stupid
 
7:05 PM
@ricmarques Thank you
 
@Szabolcs :-)
 
7:18 PM
Check this out:
Free eBook with sign-up: LaTeX Beginner's Guide (from @StefanKottwitz).
I see it was already reported by Stefan... too slow.
 
@Werner But we wub you. <3
 
I'm never sure what to set my page margins to when I don't have instructions. 2.54 cm seems too large, and annoyingly American. 2.4 cm? 2.39 cm? 2 cm?
 
yo'
@Canageek depending on font, approximately 30--36 em should be the textwidth. I use 33em for CM/LM
 
7:33 PM
@yo' What is an em again? (11 pt kpfonts)
 
yo'
The true problem is, a4paper and letterpaper are both way too large.
 
@yo' Yup
 
yo'
\documentclass[11pt]{article}

\usepackage{kpfonts}

\begin{document}

\the\dimexpr33em

\end{document}
@Canageek shows 361.35pt
 
@yo' Fair point, but they are what my printer has.
I suppose I could my my citation list two columns, but that would look weird and have even more problems with breaking reactions in two
 
yo'
@Canageek you can order b5paper (it's can be a bit expensive) and print on them
 
7:36 PM
Hiho :-)
 
yo'
@moose yo!
 
@yo' Getting a4 over here is already expensive, whereas using the stuff the univeristy supplies in the mail room is free
 
@moose Aloha!
 
yo'
@Canageek it's not unseen to make bibliography in twocolumn and \footnotesize, and to set it \raggedright. It's also what index does by default, note.
 
@yo' On a paper sure, but this is a literature list for distribution to the group. Raggedright is an idea though.
 
yo'
7:38 PM
@Canageek \raggedright or \sloppy. I cetainly prefer \raggedright for biblio (it's also what we use in the journal I typeset)
 
@yo' Sloppy helps. Ragged doesn't look very good in this case.
@yo' That would give me 1.75" margins (4.445 cm)! o.o
@yo' I wish my journals used LaTeX :(
 
@PauloCereda He he. Thanks.
 
I've just added full-text search (by description) to write-math.com, e.g. write-math.com/search/?search=planet . I plan to add tags (possible tags could be "planet", "latin alphabet", "greek alphabet", "amsmath", "mathbb", "binary operators", ...) and tag-search similar to StackExchange for symbols. Are there any "structured" search options you would like which can / should not be solved by tags?
 
yo'
@Canageek yep, that's it
This is 33em in LM 11pt on an A4 page:
 
@yo' Wow, those are really large margins.
 
yo'
7:50 PM
@Canageek those are the proper margins. Well, the horizontal ones. In the vertical direction, the text could be shorter.
 
@yo' How did Letter/A4 become standard?
 
@Canageek ACS and RSC will both take LaTeX submissions
 
yo'
@Canageek don't ask me, I dunno. I wished it was B5 I tell you.
 
@JosephWright They will, with a thousand limitations that the physics people I hang out stare at me when I tell them about.....
 
@Canageek A4 is mathematically-attractive so makes sense from a production POV
@Canageek Such as?
 
yo'
7:51 PM
@JosephWright so is B5 (in the very same way)
 
@yo' Yes, I know
@yo' But not quite: A0 is exactly one square metre in size
 
@JosephWright A bunch of package limitations, no custom macros, etc. Isn't it RSC that asks for no packages whatesoever?
 
yo'
@JosephWright and B0 is 1.41 sq m, what's the significance? :)
 
@Canageek Remember I write achemso and the RSC ripped-off my template :-)
@Canageek If you are not using the conversion server you are OK
 
yo'
"rip off" = "shamelessly steal"?
 
7:52 PM
@Canageek Those limitations in any case apply to any journal submission
@yo' Well some of the code looks very familiar
 
@JosephWright Oh, I know, the physics seem to be able to use whatever they want without worrying about it.
 
yo'
@JosephWright :)
 
@Canageek I wonder how: the publishers will still need to post-process into a database
 
@JosephWright So no journal will let me use \newcommand{\cp}{coordination polymer}? I thought stuff like that was one of the big reasons behind LaTeX
@JosephWright They spend much more time keeping things up to date I guess?
 
@Canageek Nothing to do with it: once you set up your XML it's got to be good for a generation
 
7:55 PM
@Canageek For the nice property: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_216#A_series
 
@Canageek Depends: the chemistry journals work from PDFs not LaTeX source I think in any case
 
@JosephWright No idea. Perhaps they just don't notice the limitations as much, or don't push it as far? OR the physics community has embraced it more then chemistry so things have been more standardized, so the stuff they want to do is really well supported?
 
@Canageek Probably the publishers are good at stripped out non-standard stuff before converting the XML
@Canageek In any case, what non-standard packages do you need to write a paper when you are not doing the typesetting?
 
@JosephWright That or chemistry publishers just really suck. My last paper went to print with several errors due to the Word -> whatever conversion that they didn't fix.
 
@Canageek Oh, that's quite common
@Canageek Care to name the journal?
 

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