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4:03 PM
 
@BalarkaSen Wanna talk a little more about holomorphic sections? :D This should be a bit easier.
Hi @JohnRennie? :P
 
@Danu hi, I was just looking at Kaumudi's question about algebraic functions. I wasn't going to risk actually talking about maths - I know my place :-)
 
@JohnRennie It's never too late!
And you can always pretend that it's string theory you're interested in ;)
 
user116211
Mark this day when John Rennie landed in Mathematics - WE would call it the J Day!!
 
4:19 PM
Anyone really good with ZFC-set theory
?
 
4:41 PM
For some finite simple graph $G$, is the maximum value of $\frac{\tau (G)}{\nu (G)} = 2$?
I couldn't find anything higher than checking $K_{3}$. xD
 
if you define $\tau(G) = 2 \nu(G)$, yes
 
Hm?
 
I don't know what $\tau$ and $\nu$ mean
 
$\tau (G)$ is the size of the largest set of independent edges on $G$. $\nu (G)$ is the size of the smallest set of vertices in $G$ such that every edge in $G$ is incident to a vertex in said set.
 
then I have no idea
 
4:45 PM
I imagined that was going to be your answer after your second comment. xD
 
xD
 
5:06 PM
good evening
 
good evening
 
6:01 PM
@Danu Go ahead.
@MAFIA36790 J Day sounds disturbingly familiar...
 
user116211
@BalarkaSen Familiar to which one?
 
J Dee.
 
user116211
@BalarkaSen NOOOO!!!
 
@BalarkaSen Let $L$ be a line bundle on a compact complex manifold. $L$ is trivial iff $L$ and $L^*$ both admit global sections. One way is really easy because any non-zero constant map to $\Bbb C$ gives a section of the trivial bundle. The converse is slightly more work
Let $s,s'$ be sections of $L,L^*$, and $s_i,s'_i$ the image through a trivialization.
Then I defined $S_i=s_i\cdot s'_i$, and showed that it doesn't transform under transition functions, so the $\{S_i\}$ patch together to a global holomorphic function. The last bit is showing that it's not constant...
For that, I argued as follows: $s$ must hit zero at some point, else $L$ is trivial. Same for $s'$. But they're not the zero section, by assumption, so $S$ is not constant, which yields a contradiction.
Is there a gap in that, or is it alright?
 
It's fine
 
6:08 PM
Thanks for the check
 
wait
no, okay
 
Phew
 
you should say form the start that you do a proof by contradiction
 
Ah, sorry
That was surprisingly easy, and gives that $\mathcal O(-k)$ has no global sections :D
 
6:11 PM
Sure.
 
I'm so happy! That was an exercise (he used it to prove the above conclusion)
 
I was missing that $L$ has a global section with no zero <=> it's the trivial bundle, which is suprisingly just definitions
 
Yes, @mercio
 
@mercio Ah, yes, because a nowhere zero section actually gives the trivialization already :)
That was basically the only step I needed to really come up with in the proof
Am I a bad student for always assuming things like dual of tensor product is tensor product of dual etc to hold?
 
Plus knowing the transition functions of $L^*$ to come up with those $S_i$
 
6:15 PM
Right, right
 
@Danu That's not hard to prove though.
 
@BalarkaSen I guess in those cases it's always just "write down the obvious map" and then checking that it's nice
 
At least if you work with finite dimensional things
 
Yeah
only finite dimensional things are real :P
 
: O
 
6:19 PM
@Danu Another way to see that is to understand that in complex manifolds intersection numbers cannot be negative.
 
@BalarkaSen I have no geometric info whatsoever from this book :(
The only cohomology so far is sheaf cohomology :P
I'm not seeing any intersection numbers
 
Oh well
 
Where'd you learn about that?
 
It's all in G-P
 
On complex manifolds?!
wat^{wat}?
 
6:21 PM
Nah, about intersection numbers.
 
Oh, wait, orientation somethingsomething
This carries some information about intersection numbers
@BalarkaSen Oh, I know what they are---just not the claim you mentioned
 
Orientation doesn't prevent intersection number from being positive.
Holomorphicity does
 
So where'd you learn about that?
 
Nowhere. Ted asked me, and I can prove it for complex dimension 1 (it's just C-R equations, really). Don't think higher dimension is any harder than that.
 
uh
aren't there stories with blow ups and exceptional divisors who have self-intersection number $-1$ ?
 
6:24 PM
@mercio Topological self-intersection number.
There is no way to "perturb" exceptional divisors by a bit in the holomorphic category
 
yes
so it's not a topological intersection so that's why it can be negative ?
 
Not sure what that means.
 
He's asking if it's some other kind of intersection number that is not the same as yours
 
Intersection number means and always will mean topological intersection number. The claim I had said that for any two complex submanifolds of a complex manifold (of dual dimension), intersection number is $> 0$. That just means inside eg $\Bbb P^2$ blown up at a point, the exceptional divisor cannot intersect with any other complex submanifold homologous to itself which intersects it with intersection number $-1$.
This in particular means the normal bundle of the exceptional divisor (aka $O(-1)$) can't have a global holomorphic section.
"for any two *transverse complex submanifolds", I meant.
To clarify, there are global topological sections, which means there are topological submanifolds of $\Bbb P^2$ blown up at a point which intersects the exceptional divisor like that. But none of those are complex submanifolds.
 
6:41 PM
@BalarkaSen Let $\gamma_e$ be the $U(1)$-bundle over $S^2$ with Euler class $e$. If $e$ is negative, the total space of $\gamma_e$ is diffeomorphic to $S^2 \times S^1$. But of course, cup product shows that the total space of the associated disc bundles differ.
 
Trying to see why $Total(\gamma_e)$ is diffeomorphic to $S^2 \times S^1$
 
@MikeMiller What do you mean by Euler class? That should be L(e,1). (the boundary of the e- euler number disk bundle).
 
Even with negative $e$? I must be confusing myself.
 
Ya its e surgery on the unknot.
 
Obviously. My bad.
Thanks for the correction.
 
6:48 PM
What's the e-surgery on the unknot again? I always confuse that notation.
 
$e\mu+1\lambda$ bounds a disk in the surgery where $\mu$ is the meridean and $ \lambda$ is the Seifert longititude.
 
Thanks
 
n-surgery attaches disks to the pushoff of the knot which has linking number n with the knot.
 
I see, makes sense
 
Guys I really need ur help with this one ...
0
Q: Logic and the ZFC - set theorem Problem with Induction

Ajax EdmI really need some help with my assignment. Im terrible at Logic and the ZFC - set theorem I hope you can help check my work so far and help me solve this hard one All the best Ajax In this exercice we need to prove that: (1*)Is T a not empty subset of the natural numbers N, that means their ex...

I just seem too not get it
 
6:57 PM
that's not very legible
the 1 2 3 thingies are mixed with the a b c thingies and I have no idea what is what
is there a question
 
ahhh ;) a,b,c are the questions and 1*, 2* , 3* thingies are just to see what we have to do with it
 
hi chat
 
@MikeMiller Is Mike Sullivan, Dennis Sullivan's son?
 
a,b,c are just subquestions ;)
 
What's the slickest proof of Riemann mapping theorem out there?
 
7:03 PM
@Balarka I don't know one I'd call slick.
 
you said you need to prove (1) then your (a) question is something about (2), your (b) question is ... idk there's a (3) and i'm really not sure what's (3), and your (c) question asks for a proof of (3) so even if that made sense idk how it would be different from (b)
 
The standard proof is probably the shortest. The best proof is probably just a proof of uniformization.
 
write your favorite proof of the riemann mapping hypothesis on a piece of paper, then dip it in oil. bam, it's slick.
(when i am tired my sense of humour becomes a tad absurd.)
 
Well a) wants the logical proof that (1*) = (2*) Question b) Here is the question to show that (3*) implies (2*) and c) is about proofing the formulae (3*) by induction
 
hey does this work? :) Is somebody there, I have a probability question and I'm having trouble with it. I think I am lacking something basic
 
7:09 PM
as per the room description: "Just ask; don't ask to ask."
 
@MikeMiller I thought uniformization was harder than Riemann mapping (it's a generalization, right?).
 
Yeah.
 
But I guess you didn't mean "easier" when you said "best", so nevermind.
 
My favorite proof of uniformization is different than the usual proof you find in a complex analysis book. But that's just me.
 
Can I hear your proof idea?
 
7:13 PM
Do you know what sectional curvature is?
 
Vaguely.
 
Complex structures on Riemann surfaces are the same as orientations + conformal classes of a Riemannian metric. Then the uniformization theorem can be restated as "Every metric on a Riemann surface is conformal to a complete metric of constant sectional curvature."
By the Killing-Hopf theorem, such a simply connected surface is isometric to either the plane, hyperbolic plane, or sphere.
 
Not that I understand much of that, but that sounds pretty nice.
 
@MikeMiller I sorta knew that first sentence! :D
 
I'm trying to prove the following (simplified). I have a matrix of cells, each containing one (distinct) element and originally they are distributed uniformly at random. Now I do the following: In each "round", I pick two elements at random and swap them. What I want to prove is that the distribution is uniformly random.
 
7:19 PM
So one needs to prove that. You can write down the formula for the change in scalar curvature in dimension 2: $s(e^{2f}g) = e^{-2f}(s(g) + 2\Delta f)$. So one wants to solve the equation $s(g) = \text{sgn}(g)e^{2f} - 2\Delta f$, where $\text{sgn}(g)$ is $0, 1,$ or $-1$.
On a compact manifold this can be solved by calculus of variations techniques. On noncompact manifolds it's a little harder.
 
That sounds very nice.
 
I have the following already: the probability of accessing the same column if I pick two different elements is $\frac{1}{N} + \frac{N-1}{N} \cdot \frac{\sqrt{N}-1}{N-1} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{N}}$, where $N$ is the total number of cells in the matrix
 
I shouldn't have used $2f$, just $f$. Whatever.
 
@BalarkaSen
I have to tell someone about this
I am marking the following question
4. Let ∼ be a symmetric and transitive relation on a set A. What is wrong with the

following “proof” that ∼ is reflexive?

a ∼ b implies b ∼ a by symmetry; then a ∼ b and b ∼ a imply that a ∼ a by transitivity.

Thus a ∼ a.
One person answered it as follows
 
@MikeMiller, do you have some idea about good sources for Riemannian geometry stuff?
 
7:21 PM
cannot use symmetry to prove transitivity as they did in the proof. To prove transitivity they should have introduced 'c' and show that a ~ b and b ~ c and proved that a ~ c.
 
I also have that if I pick the same element the probability that it will be in the same column is $\frac{1}{\sqrt{N}}$, but I somehow don't see how to generalize these two things
 
(The reason is there mightn't be a 'b'. It's a standard fake proof.)
 
No.
 
after tht it can be said that transivity hold
 
(what's wrong is that it talks about a without introducing a)
 
7:22 PM
whenever I try I get results that aren't even valid probabilities, like 2...
 
That is sooo funny
omg this guy made my day
 
idk that guy would have ruined my day
 
it so funny they think math is just relative to certain letters
lool
 
So, is it true that for any finite simple graph $G$ the maximum value of $\dfrac{\tau (G)}{\nu (G)} = 2$? :0
 
how did the student read that the proof tried to prove transitivity
lol
i have to go do the cooking
;w;
 
7:24 PM
I tried to show that prob. of access i will access column $j_i$ given the condition that acccess i-1 was to some $j_{i-1}$, but somehow I fail at expanding this properly I think.
 
Stein-Shakarchi's proof of Riemann mapping seems a bit repulsive at a glance. Probably not a proof I'd read today.
 
It's the normal families proof, right?
 
Yeah
 
It's clean. Why do you want to know it today?
 
7:40 PM
Been reading the chapter it's in for the analytic side of things I have been studying. Also admittedly feel the theorem is quite curious. (as a minor reason I should be fair about, I'll meet the analyst I'm studying with tomorrow and don't want to go there empty-handed)
 
Hi!
How do you pronounce x^(-1) in english?
x to the (...) th ?
 
@Basj inverse
 
@TobiasKildetoft yes but if you want to focus on the fact it's minus one
"The inverse 1 over x can be written x to the ...."
 
"x to the minus one"
 
I'm not native english, that's why I'm asking
 
7:45 PM
x to the minus one
 
ok, so we avoid the "th" ?
like "x to the third", "x to the fourth", "x to the fifth"
 
third isn't quite an example of that, but I get your point
 
Given $X=[0,1]$. We knew that $X \subset X$. Why is X an open subset wrt itself, is it because we cannot go anymore left from e.g. the point 0 thus a ball at 0 cannot extend to points to the left of 0 since there are no such points?
 
@Semiclassical true ;)
 
@BalarkaSen Sorry, I think I asked. Do you know what scalar curvature is?
 
7:46 PM
I sometimes have to talk in english (French here) and I want to be sure I'm correct
 
there's a name for that, though
 
@MikeMiller Nope.
 
@Secret depends on how you define open
 
Also you asked for sectional curvature
 
x^(1/2) => do we say "x to the one half" ?
 
7:47 PM
right: ordinal versus cardinal
 
@BalarkaSen Do you know what the curvature of a surface is?
 
@Semiclassical so when is it ordinal, when is it cardinal when using "x to the ..." ?
 
I am currently reading this set of notes and they discuss about open sets as follow:
 
> Let X be a metric space. A ball B of radius r around a point x ∈ X is
B = {y ∈ X|d(x, y) < r}.
> Lastly, open sets in spaces X have the following properties:
1. The empty set is open
2. The whole space X is open
3. The union of any collection of open sets is open
4. The intersection of any finite number of open sets is open.
 
7:49 PM
tends to be ordinal when that's practical. for example, i'd say "x to the tenth" but not necessarily "x to the 120th".
 
@MikeMiller No, to be honest, I do not.
 
My question concern about point number 2, since if I place a ball on 0, then I can always go infintesimally to the left of 0 and end up nowhere that is not in X
 
probably because the proper expression is "x to the tenth power"
we tend to drop the word 'power' as being obvious
 
@Secret those are properties of open sets, not the definition of what it means for a set to be open in a metric space
 
beyond small numbers, though, i tend to use cardinal
 
7:50 PM
Soorry wrong quote, here's the correct one:
> Definition 1.2.2. A subset O ⊆ X is open if for every point x ∈ O, there is a ball around x
entirely contained in O
 
@Secret Anyway, how can you ever go anywhere that is not inside the space?
 
I don't know anything much about differential geometry beyond curves.
 
there is nothing outside the space
 
@Basj i guess my conclusion is that cardinal is always fine
 
@Secret Ok, so I won't be incorrect if I say "five to the twenty" instead of "five to the twentieth" ?
 
7:51 PM
i'd say so. (i presume you meant that for me?)
 
If I have X = [0,1] and I place a ball on 0, I cannot go any left to that because there is nothing there, and not because the points there I will fall outside of X?
 
it's sort've like quadratic versus polynomial of degree 2
 
@Secret there are simply no points there to "fall outside"
 
I see
 
Last thing : in a calculus course, do you say "e to the x" or "exponential of x" ?
 
7:52 PM
an english speaker will tend to use the former rather than the latter, but the latter isn't wrong.
 
@Basj I heard people using both, thus it depends on who is the lecturer
 
@Secret You might as well worry about accidently moving perpendicular to the line segment you are on (note that this does not seem to be a problem for you)
 
i tend to use both, actually. there's probably some rule of thumb, but it doesn't come to mind
i guess I use "exponential of" when the argument of the exponential is a bit more involved
 
@Semiclassical ok...
 
Interestingly, this thought never occured to me. It's as if I end up overthinkinig things but not overthink enough to get myself to such possibilities

But anyway, thanks for the clarification
 
7:54 PM
woo, publication notice
 
Congrats!
 
In fact each year when I begin to talk to students in english, I wonder "I am correct?" and I have a syndrom of verifying everything again
 
Nice
 
@Semiclassical congratulations (I assume you are one of those people)
 
7:55 PM
yeah
i'm the one who isn't a prof :P
 
Oh a last thing : can i say "The function big F is the primitive of the function small f" to say F is primitive of f
Are "big / small" correct, or do I have to say "capital f" ?
 
I also just had a paper appear in Documenta (so far just online), and my advances paper should be out on paper soon (whenever the October issue is printed)
 
@Basj hmm. I tend to think that's a matter of taste
 
So "big F" is not wrong ?
 
7:57 PM
i mean, one does refer to "big-O notation"
 
True...
 
I tend to use "capital f", but that's probably idiosyncratic
 
Some time later, I might investigate further how people overthink and failed to overthink things, cause I suspect the phenomenon itself might be able to be described by some mathematical space with soem constraints applied to it
 
though along those lines, i think one says little-o not small-o when it comes to Landau notation
so probably big/little is the 'proper' way
 
Well, I'll have to go to sleep. G'night, to all.
 
8:02 PM
Thanks everyone!
 
glad to help
 
Why in the definition of a topology is the requirement that a topology $\tau$, need to be closed under finite union and intersection? What does having union or intersection of sets in $\tau$ that fall outside of the topology $\tau$ mean in terms of the intuitive idea of how two things are connected together?
 
8:20 PM
@Secret As a motivating example you can think about intervals in $\Bbb R$.
 
Hmm, let's see, I will start with the interval [0,1]. So I can e.g. break it into the union of [0,0.5) and [0.5,1] and $\emptyset$. I then call this set S. The intersection of any of them gives $\emptyset$ which is $\in S$ The union of them give my original interval [0,1] which is not in S because of how I slice the interval... I don't felt like there's a gap or something like that here...?
 
8:39 PM
@Secret: In fact, the collection of open sets (the topology) needs to be closed under arbitrary unions and, yes, finite intersections. You can if you want define a topology on $[0,1]$ by having the only open sets be the whole set (you cannot leave that out), $[0,.5)$ and $[.5,1]$. Can you give me continuous functions from that topological space to $\Bbb R$?
Hi @Danu: You awake this time? ... I just spent an hour sorting out some complex geometry for someone (sigh, yet another "small" mistake in Griffiths/Harris).
 
@TedShifrin Hey!
Yeah, it's just 10:40 PM right now :P
Yesterday was when I was up crazy-late :P
 
Or you were up crazy-early this morning.
 
I spent a lot of time going through basic stuff on holomorphic sections today with Balarka and mercio
 
Glad to know I'm now redundant. It's good :)
 
@TedShifrin I wish
@TedShifrin It's mostly that I'm ashamed to ask you such basic questions, hahaha
 
8:42 PM
I don't think you do shame.
 
Is that a subtle insult? ;)
 
No, it was a subtle compliment.
So far as learning is concerned, anyhow.
 
Okay :P
I'm now looking at the Euler sequence
By the way, I skipped the Veronese & Segre maps because Huybrechts has a huge concentration of typos there so I couldn't make any sense out of what he was typing.
Why is the Euler sequence called such?
 
Yeah. Figure out why the $\otimes \mathscr O(-1)$ needs to be there to get a derivative map from $\Bbb C^{n+1}- \{0\}$ to $T\Bbb P^n$.
Probably because Euler thought about the vector field $\sum x^i \frac{\partial}{\partial x^i}$, which is now called the Euler vector field. It is germane here.
Veronese and Segre aren't that bad. :)
 
@TedShifrin Oh, really. I'm disappointed.
I wanted to learn something about Euler classes (I have to present on them in... 3 months? I'm doing a seminar on char. classes)
 
8:46 PM
I never strive to make you happy, Danu, so it's ok.
Not related to Euler class. That's related to Euler characteristic. Euler got around.
 
I first need to prove that twisting the inclusion of $\mathcal O(-1)$ into $\Bbb P^n\times \Bbb C^{n+1}$ by $\mathcal O(1)$ doesn't spoil injectivity.
Huybrechts is starting to rely heavily on exercises :(
 
BTW, I mentioned this to @Balarka already. Good exercise is to generalize the Euler sequence for any complex submanifold of $\Bbb P^n$.
Tensoring with a line bundle preserves SES.
 
Ain't nobody got time for good exercises... The pressure is on to finish this book in 3 weeks tops...
Mission impossible...
 
Well, stop babbling in here and get to work.
 
@TedShifrin ...I guess I need to prove this.
 
8:48 PM
Hint: It's not hard.
Do it for vector spaces.
 
Actually the exercise in Huybrechts is a bit different---show that $f\otimes \operatorname{id}_G:E\otimes G\to F\otimes G$ is still injective if $f:E\to F$ is injective
 
Sure. That too.
So suppose $\sum e_i\otimes g_i$ maps to $0$.
I assume $G$ has arbitrary dimension?
 
Yeah
I'm sorry---distracted for a few minutes
Stuff is going on in the PSE election cycle
 
Are you running for president?
 
No---99% not going to happen. If nobody steps up (so far, there is one candidate that I REALLY like), I will consider it. But only consider.
Probably not a good idea
 
8:56 PM
Let me emphasize. NOT a good idea.
 
@TedShifrin Hehe :P Why do you feel strongly about it?
 
Because of how much you have to do in the next year ... infinite distraction not helpful.
You just don't want to lose your "connection" to physics.
 
'tis true
@TedShifrin This is also true
 
I'm not as dumb as I look.
heya tern !
 
lol
I got into an argument with tern earlier about using component expressions in vector calculus :P
 
8:58 PM
Who was on whose side, and in what context?
I absolutely, absolutely, absolute detest one of the classic Advanced Calculus texts because he writes out multivariable analysis in terms of $(f,g,h)$ instead of working with vector-valued functions (in arbitrary dimension). Did I say I hate this book?
 

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