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11:19 AM
@BalarkaSen waht was mike;s hint? He asked us to think for some bundle over $S^2$?
 
5 hours ago, by Mike Miller
Understanding the construction for RP^3 might be more helpful than you supposed.
 
Hi @Balarka o/
 
Hi @Danu
 
Sorry for bailing so suddenly last night---it was like 5:30 AM :P
 
Ok let me think for a while...thanks
 
11:21 AM
Oh, that's totally fine, @Danu.
No need to apologize.
 
So I need to get back to understanding the homogeneous polynomials---my problem is much more basic than this in fact.
I just don't understand how global sections work.
So I have the tautological line bundle $\mathcal O(-1)\subset\Bbb P^n\times\Bbb C^{n+1}$, with trivializations over the standard open covering of $\Bbb P^n$ given by $\psi(\ell,z)=(\ell,z_i)$.
oh, brb
 
Hmm, had to set the paper width to 50 inches to make room for the tables of cells for type $A_6$. Probably means I have reached the limit of what I should include.
 
so it turns out i don't have as good a grasp on graph theory as i thought
which is fine
 
@BalarkaSen I have a doubt, like $RP^3$, why can't I always define sucha map from $D^{n+1}$ to the $S^1$ bundle over $S^n$?
 
@Anubhav I don't understand. What map? To what bundle?
 
11:34 AM
from $D^3$ to the unit tangen bundle of $S^2$ I have this map, $xt$ maps to the matrix which fixes $x$ and rotate the $1$ vector on $Tx(S^2)$ an angle $t\pi$
in the positive direction
 
You need to pass through the identification of $\Bbb{RP}^3$ with $SO(3)$ at some point to identify it with $T_1S^2$.
 
What identification I wrote, that is precisely an element of $SO(3)$
since every element of it has a real eigenvalue
So for odd $n$, $SO(n)$ can be think of as a point in $S^{n_1}$ and a rotation of $S^{n-1}$ around this fixed point
 
Why would that help you to do anything with $\Bbb{RP}^n$?
 
I am not sure, but my idea is to identify (for odd case) $RP^n$ with $S^1$ bundle over $S^{n-1}$
 
Well, the unit tangent bundle of $S^n$ is NOT $\Bbb {RP}^n$ for higher $n$. But your idea is good, don't fixate on a particular circle bundle. You just need it to be the total space of some circle bundle (not even with a circle base) (why?).
In general IIRC the unit tangent bundle of $S^n$ is $SO(n)/SO(n-2)$ I think.
 
11:46 AM
yes, similar to that, because then that total sapce become the boundary of the disc bundle.
 
That's right.
 
wahahaha just found all of my math textbooks online for free in less than 15 minutes
what a bargain
 
@BalarkaSen Finally back.
So The tautological line bundle seems okay :P
The transition functions $\psi_{jk}$ are $z_j z_k^{-1}$.
 
Ja.
 
Now, its dual $\mathcal O(1)$.
The transition functions are just the inverse
The trivializations are... the same? (?!?!)
 
11:54 AM
?
 
Why not? Dual bundle trivializes over the same open cover as the original bundle.
 
Over the same open cover, sure
but what is the exact map?
I want to say the same
 
What map?
 
what map ?
$L \to X$ ?
 
$\psi_j:\mathcal O(1)_{|_{U_j}}\to U_j\times \Bbb C$
 
user228700
11:55 AM
Hello everyone :-) Can anybody provide me the exact definition of an "algebraic function"? is how my textbook defines it:
 
what's that thing on the LHS
 
user228700
" $y$ is an algebraic function of $x$, if it is a function that satisfies an algebraic equation of the form $P_o(x)y^n+...+P_{n-1}(x)y+P_n(x)=0$ where n is a positive integer and $P_o(x), P_1(x)$ etc. are polynomials in $x$" But wikipedia says: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_function and I'm not able to correlate and understand the two definitions. Can you please help?
 
@mercio The trivializing map
Or did you mean the $\mathcal O(1)$, restricted to $U_j$
 
yeah that
 
well, it's that :P
 
11:56 AM
aren't you looking at the dual of the tautological bundle
 
Yes
 
@KaumudiHarikumar In what context is your book defining algebraic functions?
 
Then the construction of the dual is as follows :
 
So what does $\psi_j$ do, exactly
 
user228700
@TobiasKildetoft It's giving examples of different types of functions.
 
11:57 AM
@KaumudiHarikumar from where to where?
 
suppose you have a bunch of trivializations on $U_i$ that covers $X$
 
@Danu It's the composition of the $\psi_j$ for $O(-1)$ with the map $U_j \times \Bbb C \to U_j \times \Bbb C$ which dualizes $\Bbb C$ in the latter factor, not?
 
you define $L^{-1}$ by taking them apart and glueing them the other way
 
@BalarkaSen Right, okay
 
user228700
@TobiasKildetoft $f:R→R$
 
11:59 AM
@KaumudiHarikumar In that case, it does seem like the wikipedia definition is more general than the one your book gives
 
so that $\mathcal O(L^{-1})|_{U_i}$ "=" $\mathcal O(L)|_{U_i}$
 
By dualizes I mean the map $\Bbb C \to \Bbb C^* \cong \Bbb C$.
 
Yeah, I know
 
user228700
@TobiasKildetoft Yes, it does. What is my book trying to say..? :/
 
So I want to see, explicitly in terms of trivializations, why the coordinate functionals on $\Bbb C^{n+1}$ are sections of $\mathcal O(1)$
 
12:00 PM
@KaumudiHarikumar Why would your book be trying to say something other than what it just says?
 
I have a feeling that this is somehow where I'm messing up
 
so yes some trivializations are "the same"
 
user228700
@TobiasKildetoft Uh, I meant to say that I don't understand the definition given by my textbook.
 
what's important is how you glue them together
 
@mercio Well, the dualization does matter a bit, also
 
12:01 PM
dualization replaces all the transition functions with their inverses
 
But it also slightly changes the trivializing maps themselves
 
not really
 
user228700
@TobiasKildetoft My basic question was whether u could explain what my book says...
 
@mercio I mean, the bundles are not the same, so of course the charts are not the same.
By trivializing map he means the charts.
 
So let me denote the coordinate functional $z_0$ by $\langle \hat z_0,\cdot\rangle$
 
12:02 PM
yeah but you build the dual bundle by taking charts from the original bundle
 
@mercio Um, no. I build the dual bundle by taking the charts $U \to U \times V$, replacing the fibers $V$ to $\hom(V, \Bbb R)$, i.e. making new charts $U \to U \times \hom(V, \Bbb R)$, same on the first coordinate.
 
And let's do a low-dimensional case, say $\mathcal O(1)$ on $\Bbb P^2$.
 
ah yes that seems easier with the $\hom(V,k)$
 
So I have $z_0$ (scratch that inner product notation---it'll be annoying with the transition functions)
 
@KaumudiHarikumar I am not sure what there really is to explain.
 
12:07 PM
And let's consider that standard covering of $\Bbb P^2$ by three open sets $U_j$ (where the $z_j$-coordinate is nonzero)
 
so what's the trivialisation on $U_0$ ?
 
user228700
@TobiasKildetoft (Uh, OK, some background info: I've only just graduated high school.) I don't understand all that about polynomials and all given in my textbook. Can you explain in simple words?
 
$(\ell,z)\mapsto (\ell,z_0)\mapsto (\ell,\langle \hat z_0,\cdot\rangle)$, I guess
 
@KaumudiHarikumar Well, do you know what a polynomial is?
 
what
 
12:09 PM
So let's start denoting the dual of an element of $\Bbb C$ by $^*$, i.e. the dual of $z$ is $z^*$
 
user228700
@TobiasKildetoft Yes, of course.
 
Then the trivialization over $U_0$, of $\mathcal O(1)$, should be $\psi_0:(\ell,z)\mapsto (\ell,z_0^*)$
 
is the first one about the tautological bundle ?
 
@mercio The first one? You mean the first step in the two-step map I initially gave? Then yes.
 
O(1) is the dual of the tautological bundle, not the tautological bundle.
Oh, nevermind, misunderstood the qn.
 
12:10 PM
$ \mathcal l$ is an element of $\Bbb P^2$ ?
(so a line in $\Bbb C^3$) ?
 
Yes, so a line in $\Bbb C^3$
 
and $z$ is a point on that line ?
 
lol, exactly
 
@KaumudiHarikumar Hmm, actually I don't think I get what your book is trying to say either. Unless it is missing something, what it says just means that the map is given by some polynomial (the coefficients being polynomials does not change anything)
 
Yes @mercio
 
12:11 PM
$\ell$ is the equivalence class of a line in $\Bbb C^3$, not a line.
But yeah, whatever.
 
Well, morally it's a line :P
 
user228700
@TobiasKildetoft Oh, it doesn't? Hm, OK. I will look into it some more. Thanks sir :-)
 
I am being a pedant.
 
well the trivialization on $U_0$ for the tautological line bundle
 
I mean, any set of coefficients can be realized by a suitable choice of the polynomials
 
12:12 PM
@BalarkaSen That's good---I need to go slow.
 
should be $(\mathcal l,z) \mapsto (\mathcal l, (z_1/z_0, z_2/z_0)) \in \Bbb P^2 \times k^2$
wait
 
@mercio It's a line bundle.
This has to be wrong.
 
yeah uh
i was thinking of $\Bbb P^2$ maybe
 
So @Balarka, let's consider the coordinate functional $z_2^*$, which spits out the $2$-component of $w\in \Bbb C^3$
 
OK.
Note that I may not be much of a help, since I never in my life worked out a section of $O(1)$ by hand.
 
12:14 PM
should be $(l,z) \mapsto (l,z_0)$ ?
 
Let's take a point $(w_0:w_1:w_2)=\ell_w\in U_0\cap U_1$
@mercio Yes, and I wrote that earlier
 
@mercio Sounds right.
 
Now, I restrict $z_2^*$ to $\ell_w$, obtaining an element of $\ell_w^*$. Hence, $(\ell_w,(z_2^*)_{|_{\ell_w}})\in \psi_0(\mathcal O(1)_{|_{U_0}})$
 
what
you are trying to see who $z_2$ is if it was a global section of the dual of the tautological bundle ?
 
ye
no, I'm trying to see why $z_2^*$ is a global section
 
12:20 PM
Can you please repeat what we are trying to prove?
 
which wayare you dualizing lol
 
@mercio I explained my notation above.
8 hours ago, by Ted Shifrin
Did you figure out that you need to actually look at the trivialization of the line bundle and then see why the transition functions tell you that homogeneous linear polynomials transform exactly right?
 
That sounds complicated, I'll duck out of this. You should ask help from Ted than waste time getting our (at least my) help (because I can't help).
 
But it shoulnd't be complicated
You glossed over it many times in the past days, as if it was clear. I did too. Huybrechts does too.
Then I realized it's not clear to me
 
I am pretty sure I didn't gloss over this. At least not how it's stated. Are we trying to see what the sections of $O(1)$ are or what?
 
12:25 PM
yes
 
Well if you have a line in $\Bbb C^3$, you have a map $(z_0,z_1,z_2) \mapsto z_2$
this map is an element of the dual of that line yes ?
 
@Danu What are the purported sections that you need to prove are actually sections?
 
$z_j^*$
@mercio Yes, and I call it $(z_2^*)_{|_\ell}$. The corresponding global linear functional is what I call $z_2^*$
 
well quite clearly this gives you, for every projective point (every line), an element of the dual of the line
 
@mercio Yeah, sure
 
12:27 PM
so this is exactly a section of the dual of the tautological line bundle
 
@mercio So why, exactly?
 
That doesn't make sense to me. $z_j^*$ is a coordinate function on $\Bbb C^3$. How are you realizing that as a map $\Bbb P^2 \to O(1)$?
 
$z_2^*$ is a map from $k^3$ to $k$
 
@BalarkaSen Well, that's what I'm trying to find out...
 
...
 
12:29 PM
the tautological line bundle is a subset of $X \times k^3$ where $X = \Bbb P^2(k)$
where each fiber is a line in $k^3$
for each line $l$, $(z_2^*)|_l$ is a map from $l$ to $k$
 
All good so far
 
so $(z_2^*)|_l$ is an element of the dual of the fiber at $l$
 
That's not yet an element of $\mathcal O(1)$, though, is it?
 
how do you define $\mathcal O(1)$
 
As the dual bundle to $\mathcal O(-1)$, the tautological line bundle
 
12:31 PM
well then yes it is
for every $l$, you have an element of the dual of the fiber at $l$ from the tautological bundle
that's the same as an element of the fiber at $l$ from the dual bundle
 
@Danu He's saying, every fiber of $O(-1)$ lives in a canonical copy of $\Bbb C^3$, by defn of taut. line. bundle.
Restrict the coordinate function on $\Bbb C^3$ to that fiber.
 
you take them all together and this gives you a global section
 
That's an element of the dual of that fiber aka an element of the fiber of $O(1)$.
 
So what was (is?) tripping me up is
That I always thought of the fibers as (canonically, whatever) isomorphic to $\ell$ and $\ell^*$, but not really $\ell$ or $\ell^*$ themselves
Much like in a principal bundle the fibers aren't $G$, but isomorphic to $G$
 
The fibers of the dual bundle are by construction equal to dual of the fibers of the original bundle.
 
12:34 PM
If you still have to go through an isomorphism (which is provided by the trivialization), then you maybe still have some legwork to do that you really have a section
 
"equal", note, not isomorphic.
 
Yeah, I guess my concerns are just over a non-issue
But do you at least see my point at all?
 
I do.
 
Because if all you get is a map into the trivialized thing, then you have to patch together still
and this is super annoying/complicated in terms of notation and shit
I thought all you get is a map into the trivialized thing
Or rather, I convinced myself of that after initially having no problems :P
 
so you want to check trivialization and transition maps for $\mathcal O(-1)$ and $\mathcal O(1)$ and find how $z_2^*$ looks like there ?
 
12:37 PM
Yeah, and why it patches together nicely and stuff
My main issue was the following, initially:
[give me a sec]
12 hours ago, by Danu
@Ted I've got some serious misconception going on that's preventing me from understanding the identification of linear homogeneous polynomials with sections of $\mathcal O(1)$ (the higher order case is analogous so once I get this it should be no problem).

What I don't understand is the following: I've got non-trivial transition functions $\psi_{jk}$, but when I restrict a globally defined hom. poly. on $\Bbb C^{n+1}$ to a ray $\ell$, I get one element of $\ell^*$, irrespective of whether I view $\ell$ as lying in the trivialization on $U_j$ or on $U_k$. How do I reconcile this with $s_j=\
Read all of this keeping in mind that I thought hom poly's map into the trivialization
If you click the permalink you can also read my 2-3 follow-up messages which elaborate
 
yeah we talked about how $z_2^*$ was indeed a section of the dual bundle, but because it turned out it was so by definition and without chekcing things on the trivializations
 
Yes
And the checking is still quite daunting to me
 
so for the tautological bundle
you have three opens
 
Why do you want to check on a trivialization in the first place?
 
and basically if $l \in U_i$, then you get a trivialization $l \to k$ by taking $z \mapsto z_i$
(if you have a line NOT in $U_i$ and try that you get the zero map on your line which is quite bad for a candidate trivialization)
 
12:41 PM
3 mins ago, by Danu
Read all of this keeping in mind that I thought hom poly's map into the trivialization
 
the transition from $U_i$ to $U_j$ is obtained by multiplying your output in $k$ by $z_j/z_i$
 
Also for more solid understanding
 
Acceptable reason.
 
this $z_j/z_i$ is actually an element of $\mathcal O_{\Bbb P^2}(U_i \cap U_j)$ as it should be
(because it's homogeneous of degree $0$)
Now when you construct the dual bundle of this
you need an isomorphism $k^* \to k$
say you use $\phi \mapsto \phi(1)$ to get a map $k^* \to k$
 
@mercio I wanted to just use $z\mapsto \langle z,\cdot\rangle=: z^*$
 
12:45 PM
now the problem is to see that the transition fuctions of the dual bundle, are the inverse of the original transition functions
 
@mercio No, wait, this is not really my issue :P
 
but your $z^*$ is in $k^{**}$
 
Please use $\Bbb C$, not $k$, @mercio :)
 
but I'm lazy
 
hah
Fair enough.
 
12:47 PM
haha
 
I had regular fights with a mathematical friend in real life when I was studying algebraic geometry. I'd ask him something and he'd quickly tell me a proof in $\Bbb C$, but then I'd say I really wanted him to prove it for all algebraically closed fields $k$.
Not relevant, just remembered.
 
haha
 
say you have a point $(z_0,z_1,z_2) \in \Bbb C^3$ with nonzero $z_0$
 
@BalarkaSen but there are so many things that only work in characteristic $0$.
 
on its line, your trivialization forgets about the other two components
 
12:50 PM
@TobiasKildetoft Yeah, maybe I don't care for nonzero characteristics either :P
 
and on the trivialization, $z_2^*(z)$ is the last component of the point on the line whose first component is $z$
so it's $z * z_2/z_0$
so $z_2^*$, on the $U_0$ trivialization is multiplication by $z_2/z_0$
 
@BalarkaSen I am giving you an idea, see whether it works or not
 
on $U_1$, it's multiplication by $z_2/z_1$, and on $U_2$, well the trivialization alredy gives you $z_2$ so it does nothing
 
Go ahead.
 
on odd dimensional sphere I can always find a non-vanishing tangent vectro field, normalize it. Also I have a unit normal vector field. Now consider a vector field on the odd diemnsional sphere gen by these two vector. Consider its unit bundle. Then by the same construction like $RP^3$ you can get a homeomorphism from $RP^n$ to here
 
12:55 PM
and it's compatible with the transition maps
so it IS a global section of the dual bundle
 
@Anubhav Normal field doesn't make sense. Do you mean normal field inside $\Bbb R^{n+1}$, $S^n$ being realized as the unit sphere inside?
 
yess...
I am thinking $S^n$ inside $R^{n+1}$
 
What's the homeomorphism with $\Bbb{RP}^n$?
 
wait, I think there is a flaw
 
Isn't this bundle trivial though?
 
1:01 PM
I guess
 
@mercio Thanks for working this out!
 
I mean, the normalized tangent field and the normal field are the two independent sections so tautologically it's trivial.
 
yes....
 
That was really helpful
 
np
 
1:07 PM
@mercio Are you a (PhD) student?
 
I'm a blue dragon
 
I like that
 
@mercio You prefer to keep it a secret?
 
1:19 PM
Anybody really good with ZFC-set theorem and logic ?
 
user116211
@AjaxEdm Contact Asaf ;)
 
@MAFIA36790 How can i do that xD
 
user116211
@AjaxEdm Just kidding, sorry; he doesn't come in chat ;P
 
Damn :(
could really need some help with that question
 
@BalarkaSen for sure I know that $S^2n-1$ is a $S^1$ -bundle over $CP^n$
 
1:24 PM
You mean $S^{2n+1}$.
 
No $2n-1$ , like $S^3$ over $S^2$
ohh yes, sorry my mistake it should be 2n+1
 
Think about that again
Yes.
 
Can all the similarities between $\Bbb P^n$ and the spheres be traced back to the Hopf fibration?
Probably...
 
you are right
 
@Danu Which similarities?
 
1:26 PM
Now if I look the $Z/2Z$ action on this fiber bundle
I think this will give me the result
am I rigt?
 
If anyone is good at Logic and Set theorem I would love to see some attempts... It's to abstract for meLogic and the ZFC - set theorem Problem
 
Careful. What is the $\Bbb Z/2$ action?
 
I mean , antipodal
 
On $S^{2n+1}$ you mean. But you need to verify that $S^{2n+1} \to \Bbb{CP}^n$ is $\Bbb Z/2$-equivariant.
Which is not hard, but just a point worth noting.
 
yes, that is what I am not confident with
 
1:28 PM
@BalarkaSen There are a lot of analogies, no?
 
@Abubhav Write the map down explicitly.
@Danu Like?
 
Some professor once said to me that the projective spaces are the closest thing to complex spheres.
 
Both are compactification of $\Bbb C^n$, but on one you have a natural complex structure, on the other you don't, yes.
 
So for instance that you can get a sphere from quotienting special orthogonal groups, while you get a projective space from quotienting (special?) unitary groups, stuff like that
 
It's compactifications of the same things in different categories.
 
1:31 PM
Also the Fubini-Study metric looks a lot like a certain standard metric on a sphere
Stuff like that
Am I talking nonsense?
 
I don't think so, @Danu.
 
Re the last or the penultimate remark? :P
 
But I am not entirely familiar with the two analogies you have, so I don't have much interesting comment to make.
Both.
 
lol
 
$S^{2n+1}\to CP^n$, $(x_1,y_1,...,x_n,y_n) \mapsto [x_1+iy_1,...,x_n+iy_n,]$
from here , It is visible that antipodal map is well behaved with the bundle map
 
1:39 PM
Yes.
 
What ?
 
So you can quotient and after that you do get a bundle $S^1 \to \Bbb{RP}^{2n+1} \to \Bbb{CP}^n$. That's what you wanted.
 
Yes
Precisely
The whole time this particular map didn;t come to my mind
I had thought about almost infinitely many cases
:P
 
You should understand that this is the most natural generalization of the proof for $\Bbb{RP}^3$. That is, this is exactly the unit tangent bundle $S^1 \to \Bbb{RP}^3 \to \Bbb{CP}^1$.
 
I knew about this Hopff map, but the trick of quotenting out didn't occur to me
 
1:43 PM
Yeah, I'm saying, you should see (if you don't know this already) that this bundle and the unit tangent bundle of $S^2$ coincides for $n = 1$.
 
I didn't see this result or any of this kind of trick before
That is why it took so much time for me
besically SO(3)
 
Yeah, it's a not so obvious trick. Admittedly I pondered on this a while ago for the case $n = 1$, in the context of trying to prove that the linking number of the circle fibers of the unit tangent bundle is 2.
(Which is obvious once you realize it's a quotient of the Hopf bundle by $\Bbb Z/2$ - the circle fibers in Hopf bundle has linking number 1, and after quotienting your circles "wrap twice around themselves" so you have linking number 2)
 
WHAT IS LINKING NUMBER?
 
Is this the place for meta mathematics questions?
 
Have a guess, @Anubhav
 
1:50 PM
you mean something like look at the pre image of a circle
and blah blah...I dont know, the picture is very blurry to me
explain
for Hopff fibration, inverse of a circle is torus... and from there you want to see intersection of thw transversal circle?
 
The total space of the Hopf fibration is $S^3$. Two generic fibers belong to $S^3$. So you have two embedded circles inside $S^3$. They form a link. You're asking for the linking number of the link.
Nothing so complicated.
In this case, it's $1$. The Hopf fibers form the Hopf link.
 
ohkk
So the number times one winding the other is called linking number?
 
You can ask the same thing in the case of the unit tangent bundle, the total space in which case is $\Bbb{RP}^3$ and you have a link inside $\Bbb{RP}^3$.
@Anubhav Yep.
 
ohk
Got it
 
wahahaha got a graph theory proof
 
2:00 PM
how are you supposed to memorize all the combinations of grad, div and curl?
we need to know like 50 of them
 
@Lozansky Tensor notation.
All you still need to memorize then are some $\epsilon$-identities
 
Yeah but good luck doing that on something like $\nabla(\mathbf{u} \cdot \mathbf{v})$
 
hi chat
@Lozansky that's really not too bad.
 
@Lozansky Like $\partial_k (u_jv_j)$? Seems pretty trivial.
 
No
 
2:12 PM
mine was dumb, yes.
 
Danu, not expressed in cartesian
 
expressing that in terms of $\nabla$ alone is more of an arse, yes.
 
@Lozansky ?
I didn't pick any coordinate system
 
indices implies wrt coordinates no?
 
@arctictern But with respect to an arbitrary one
 
2:14 PM
this is something that marks us as physicists by training, i suppose
 
I didn't tell you that $\partial_1=\partial_{\hat x}$
 
I don't like coordinates when I can avoid them.
 
@arctictern Sure, but if you're doing vector identities...
 
then we can use geometry if we're in 3D
 
Plus, the mathematical allergy for coordinates is really not necessary---it's a quick way to get the job done in many situations.
 
2:16 PM
I want beauty and understanding over getting the job done usually.
 
$\nabla(\mathbf{u} \cdot \mathbf{v}) = u \times (\nabla \times \mathbf{v})+\mathbf{v}\times(\nabla \times \mathbf{u})+\mathbf{u} \cdot \nabla \mathbf{v}+\mathbf{v} \cdot \nabla \mathbf{u}$
 
@arctictern Yeah, but are you going to find that in vector identities? :P
 
@arctictern to which i respond: phhhhbt
 
heh heh
@Lozansky that does not strike me as an identity to be memorized...
 
I mean, I'm all for mathematical beauty and understanding structures
 
2:17 PM
We have to
And I'm a stupid engineer
 
that is a pretty irritating one to have to know off the top of your head
 
But try to compute the coefficients of the Levi-Civita connection for a given metric and you'll be quickly converted.
 
> for a given metric
 
There's 50 more of those we should know
 
@arctictern What? You also don't like doing explicit examples? :(
 
2:18 PM
which is to say, if you actually want to use all that fancy calculus to actually compute something, then coordinates are quite handy.
i mean, it's true that a lot of vector stuff can be done with geometry alone. but the advantage of vectors is that it packages the info in a very succinct and useful way.
 
Anyways, it's a very useful tool---I see no point in constantly emphasizing how crappy it is based on purely aesthetic considerations.
 
I will say that a profusion of dummy indices gets annouying
the only ways I know to get around that are either to find a coordinate-free expression or to use something like diagrammatic notation (which has its own issues, to be sure)
but that just gets to the fact that if you've got a tensor of higher rank, there's a lot of ways to contract it with itself and other tensors.
 
What even is a tensor?
Does anyone know
 
tried google?
 
Yes
I can calculate with tensor
I know examples of tensors
But what is a tensor? Noone knows
 
2:22 PM
okay, rhetorical question I guess. then we shouldn't answer.
 
@arctictern This.
 
Here's a simple physics description
 
@Lozansky Eh? :P
 
Suppose I've got some configuration of electric charges.
 
Okay
 
2:22 PM
Anyways, didn't mean to antagonize you @arctictern
I just really dislike seeing the mutual "WTF" when physicists and mathematicians try to communicate :P
 
Coordinates are useful for computations, but doesn't - for me - emphasize the big picture.
 
3:00 PM
 
good call
 
3:12 PM
Remind me; what was the reason behind anomalous expansion of water? More hydrogen bonds than what was supposed to be below 4 degrees (because of electronegativity of O and proximity of the atoms), hence bigger "apparent atoms", so less well-packing?
Google says yes, so nevermind.
 

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