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12:34 AM
@MikeMiller Do you know anything about this paper arxiv.org/pdf/math/0210127v1.pdf ?
 
Not much but I can take a look at it when I get back in about half an hour
Did you have a particular questiomn
Or now, I forgot I have a phone.
Oh, I know something about the contact invariant. This is what you use to prove that L-spaces have no taut foliation (by proving they have no symplectic filling with positive $b^+$)
 
12:52 AM
No, I don't have a particular question about it. I just may have volunteered to talk about it without having much of a look at it first.
 
Hmm, I think I've tracked down the error in my LaTeX code to this line: Prove the $q$-Vandermonde identity $\left[\begin{smallmatrix}r+s\\n\end{smallmatrix}\right]_q=\sum\limits_{k=0}^n\le‌​ft[\begin{smallmatrix}r\\k\\end{smallmatrix}\right]_q\left[\begin{smallmatrix} s\\n-k\end{smallmatrix}\right]_q q^{(r-k)(n-k)}$. Does anyone have a recommendation for displaying $q$-analogues? Was there already a built-in squarebracket-binomial? And why do you suppose it doesn't like that code?
 
@MikeMiller I guess I've seen the L-space result mentioned in papers and talks quite a bit.
 
I was hoping to not have to use \begin{bmatrix}...\end{bmatrix} as it would appear too large in comparison to the nearby text.,
Ah., I found it. One too many slashes at the second \end{smallmatrix}. >_<'
 
@PVAL: It's reasonably readable without knowing much about Heegaard Floer homology. The L-space result is in "Holomorphic disks and genus bounds" which I read.
I should be able to answer questions about this
 
1:27 AM
@MikeMiller
 
Already told you.
@PVAL Are you there? I'm trying to sort out an argument made in Spivak's diff. geometry book.
 
1:44 AM
ya one sec
 
@MikeMiller when topology books say that topologies on X that contain A. Does it mean that A is subset of the topology or A is an element of the topology ?
 
@KarimMansour Probably the second.
 
I see
thank you @PedroTamaroff
 
@PedroTamaroff Where's the question?
 
Never mind the text, @PVAL.
Spivak says that surface is homeomorphic to infinitely many tori glued into handles starting from the left.
 
1:55 AM
Thanks @brian-tung
 
And the argument says "The lines cut out in the picture below is a cylinder, which occurs to the left of (A) [the infinite torus]. Now draw in two more lines enclosing more holes, and consider the region between the two pairs." @PVAL
Note he is cutting out a cylinder from a hole in the mesh.
 
@PedroTamaroff Well the point should be they both should be the nested union of surfaces $S_g$ where $S_g$ has genus $g$ and exactly one boundary component. There is obviously such a decomposition of the linear picture (infinitely many glued tori starting from the left), so all you have to do is find a decomposition of the other one and argue from class. of compact surfaces if you like.
 
OK.
I don't get his argument, though.
 
@PedroTamaroff: Don't worry about his argument. Pick an increasing decomposition like PVAL recommends and you will no doubt have rediscovered his argument.
 
@PedroTamaroff I don't think there are any lines on that surface, so I don't understand his argument.
 
2:14 AM
I can't actually figure out how to get started with a genus 1, one boundary component piece.
Oh I see it now.
 
@PVAL He takes a hole and draw a line above and below
That gives a cylinder.
 
@PedroTamaroff Aren't those simple closed curves (i.e. circles)? Is he asking to draw 2 more circles or 2 lines that make a circle? I am confused by his wording
 
@PVAL Yeah, me too. =/
 
3:09 AM
Hi pals
 
3:35 AM
Hi @Rigor
 
@MikeMiller Are you doing some work on low dimensional topology? I know you're also doing some of this guage field theory stuff, so I can't recall if I'm getting your research confused with someone else.
 
@KevinDriscoll I wouldn't say I'm doing work, but yes, that's the area I'm learning to work in.
 
@mikemiller I mention it because I was trying to recall the details of this 'trick' in higher dimensions that allows one to disentangle two tori without them intersecting each other. I think that was the plan.....
Do you happen to know the name?
 
The most-cited thing called a trick is the whitney trick, which isn't really about tori. If you're in a 7-or-more dimensional space, any two embeddings of a pair of tori are isotopic, through arguments I wouldn't call tricks.
 
@MikeMiller Ah okay, anything more similar to what I mentioned where if you somehow have two tori where in 3D one passes through the hole of the other they're 'stuck' but maybe in $>4$ dimensions there's always a way to take them apart?
 
3:42 AM
that sounds rather like knot theory
 
@KevinDriscoll: I don't believe it's true that two embedded tori in $\Bbb R^4$ can always be unlinked. But two knots (embedded circles) can.
 
namely that knots in 3-space are always trivial in 4-space
(i think?)
 
This is for basically a trivial reason: you can take the knot, and at an overcrossing, use the extra dimension to push it so that it's an undercrossing.
And thus every link is equivalent, because they're all the unlink.
 
@MikeMiller And what if you had two tori embedded in $\mathbb{R^5}$, then does it work?
At this point though it seems like I'm just misremembering what I was told some months ago
 
I don't know, I'd have to think about it. The usual tricks I use to unlink things don't work automatically until $\Bbb R^7$. Maybe they're trivial here?
 
3:44 AM
that distinction between tori and knots, and being able to unlink them, seems like the sort of thing that defies any simple intuition (at least, anything coming from geometry)
 
In $S^3$ there is no distinction between tori and knots. One side of the torus is homeomorphic to a solid torus, hence the torus is the boundary of a tubular neighborhood of a knot.
In higher dimensions there is not even really a relation between them.
 
nod
a torus = a thick unknot
 
Just a thick knot. Thicken the trefoil, that's still homeomorphic to a torus.
 
hmm
ah, right. just the same as any knot is homeomorphic to the unknot
i forget what the terminology is for "can't map one knot into another without crossings"
 
Not sure what you mean. I guess you're probably thinking of knot isotopy.
 
3:48 AM
probably
but, going back to your earlier comment
@MikeMiller in what sense do those two differ?
 
In the sense that they've got nothing to do with each other. :P
You're still thinking of a solid torus as a thickened knot. This is not a solid torus, just a torus.
 
And a torus in $S^4$ has essentially no relation to a knot. Remember, the boundary of a submanifold of $S^4$ is three-dimensional, so a tubular neighborhood of a knot won't have boundary a torus. (The boundary of such a neighborhood will actually be $S^2 \times S^1$.)
So you don't get a relation that way.
 
which is to say: "your intuition is from 3D. don't trust it"
 
@KevinDriscoll: You should read here and hunt through the related pages and references.
 
4:00 AM
@MikeMiller There's a little interesting information in the isotopy class of "how" tori are embedded in $S^3$(where "how" doesn't have anything to do with the image of the map).
 
@MikeMiller Okay, thanks. Per usual, 3 and 4 dimensions are the 'hard cases' it seems
 
@PVAL Fair point, but after you mod out by the mapping class group isotopy classes of embedded tori are the same thing as isotopy classes of embedded knots, yes?
I am curious as to which elements of the mapping class group you can't "ambient isotope" away though
 
@MikeMiller In dimension 3 (for tori at least), I'm almost certain its none of them. In dimension 4, it is highly dependent on the image ( There are exactly 3 different isotopy classes with image the unknotted torus in $S^4$ and iirc there are examples with infinitely many as well).
 
That's pretty interesting
 
@MikeMiller Well there's also tori which would represent homeomorphic knot complements but bound on opposite sides in $S^3$. These can't be isotopic
 
4:11 AM
Admittedly a little less exciting than the three isotopy classes of unknotted tori
Do you know anything about webs and foams?
 
No
I do not know what those things are
 
I think they're types of graphs and 2-complexes. Kronheimer and Mrowka posted a paper today defining instanton homology for them, apparently they think you can prove the 4-color theorem using this tool.
That'd be great, a computational proof and a gauge theory proof.
 
@MikeMiller That would be beyond surprising to me. Like a proof that could be read by humans? Or just some translation of the original proof?
 
The former, I think the hope is to completely avoid computation. The first paper is here. They have two papers up but this is the one that mentions 4color.
Well, not quite. Here's the second paper, which gives other reformulations
I have made no attempt to read these papers.
 
@MikeMiller Instantons as in particles that are the classical solutions of extremizing some action?
 
4:18 AM
Remember that the word 'instanton' was imported to math quite some time ago and now means something that probably somehow relates back to the physics definition but nobody actively thinks about it that way.
Instanton homology is a type of 3-manifold Floer homology that uses the Yang-Mills functional on connections in its definition, which is where the word 'instanton' comes from
 
Haha, it's like I love this stuff. Your sentence is syntactically correct, but I have to look up every word on wikipedia for the semantics
except yang-mills....... that one I got
Anyway, cool.
 
Physicists think about them as particles moving on graphs of functions $R \to R$ by gravity going downward. I do not know what they are or what they are trying to represent, but I'm almost sure that's what an instaton is. One of the better graduate talk-givers here expressed a complete exasperated lack of understanding for what they were talking about. I don't think they knew.
I observed them doing this in math seminars. It would be interesting to see how they behave in their natural habitat.
 
@PVAL Yea it sounds like just a classical particle
 
@KevinDriscoll That's fine, in fact that's the point. The relationship between instanton homology of 3-manifolds and physics instantons is that the word 'Yang-Mills' is used in its definition.
 
Indeed, considering it seems that instantons are defined as precisely what you get when you extremize the yang-mills actions
 
4:30 AM
Anyway @PVAL Kronheimer and Mrowka are magical human beings so I would not be surprised if this works.
 
@MikeMiller I think a readable proof of the 4-color theorem which used a lot of topological and geometric machinery is probably a bigger deal than a solution to the Riemann hypothesis and if nothing else, Dr. Z's head would probably explode.
 
I'm not sure I would ever have the cojones to say that my approach might prove the 4-color theorem in a readable format before I had completed the proof
 
Why do you think that, @PVAL? Just because it's become a cultural target of "theorem whose proof is incredibly unsatisfying"? I think it'd be a big deal but Riemann would probably still win :p
Dr. Z meaning our friend at Rutgers?
 
Well, presumably a readable proof of 4-color would give some 'moral reason' as to why its true, so that seems like it could be a big new idea
 
I'm not really sure what open problems there are in the direction of 4-color. It seems like a (beautiful!) dead end, so I'm not sure this would open pathways
 
4:39 AM
@MikeMiller Yes that Dr. Z
 
I would definitely like to read his opinion on such a proof
 
@MikeMiller 4-color is equivalent to this snark theorem for graphs (I just read) so maybe there are more connections in that direction. Just a blind guess, though.
 
In any case the applications would be graph-theoretic. I suspect KM would not pursue that direction that far. The poor graph theorists would have to learn differential geometry
 
I think at a lot of mainstream Q&A for mathematicians there is some question involving the four-color theorem. I remember Zelmanov (whose name also starts with a z) recently saying he didn't consider what existed to be a proof. It's a question that is immediately accessible to everyone as well (unlike RH). I have to admit that I don't really know why solving RH would be so surprising (I mean that Deligne guy seemed to prove some nice stuff).
 
I don't think it's that it would be surprising, it's that its proof would actually be very useful for number theory and would no doubt be a huge breakthrough in related research (so other major nearby problems would start to fall too)
I think everyone believes RH
 
4:47 AM
I certainly believe all the non-trivial zeros of the Riemann zeta function have real part $= 1/2$
Have there been any major results recently where many people did believe a conjecture that turned out to be false?
I feel like maybe the sporadic simple groups produced such dissonance
 
@MikeMiller I meant I don't know why a proof would be surprising (especially since Deligne did it for finite fields say). Not the result itself
 
It would have to do something very interesting. Straightforward applications of the old techniques didn't work
Maybe it would have to invent a good theory of $\Bbb F_1$ which I think is the current guess. But if not then it would be something completely new and exciting.
@KevinDriscoll: Not everyone believes the simple groups proof. :P Also the Hauptvermutung is almost the canonical example of your question I think.
"If you have two triangulations of the same space, can you subdivide them both to obtain the same triangulation?"
I think everyone believed it because it's obviously true.
 
@MikeMiller AH okay so in that case, obviously true in 2 and 3 dimensions turned out to lead one astray in higher dimensions
 
Here's an MO question I found on the subject of widely believed conjectures. I'm proud to announce the Hauptvermutung is on the top of the list
 
5:03 AM
Gordon told me that when Milnor constructed 7-manifolds homotopy equivalent to $S^7$ not diffeomorphic to $S^7$, Milnor initially thought that he had found a counterexample to the topological Poincare conjecture. The idea that smooth/pl/top could be different was not really considered plausible.
 
Huh, that's so out of place to me nowadays
I wonder if Dieudonne talks about this in the history book
 
The 1978 Akbulut-Kirby conjecture was recently proven false by Yasui (In the last 6 months the paper was published on arxiv). I think that was at least somewhat believed to be false recently though.
 
There's the Cappell-Shaneson homotopy spheres, which I think a lot of people thought would be exotic, that turned out to be standard last year
Though the reasoning for that was more "Well we haven't been able to prove they're standard."
 
5:21 AM
@MikeMiller Who proved that? I wasn't aware that all the cases were done.
 
Oh, good point. I forgot about that
Oh... I just remembered you'd know this result pretty well. I'm just referring to the paper you're thinking of
 
??
 
Does Gompf still think it should be solvable by linear algebra, like he suggests in the paper?
I mean this paper. I didn't realize it was 2009, I thought it was 13 or 14.
 
Oh
That paper certainly doesn't show all such spheres are standard. I think someone here is thinking about that problem using these new fangled things called computers.
 
Right, I forgot that his proof only covered some subcases before you reminded me. You should tell Kronheimer and Mrowka about it, maybe they'll solve the linear algebra problem with instanton homology of something or other.
 
5:29 AM
Do either of you know a mathematician who "only has a hammer" and "sees every problem as a nail?" I was just talking today with a postdoc about a theorist in physics who solves EVERY problem with a path-integral approach
 
If I knew a mathematician that had a tool that could solve whatever problem was in front of them I'd be a big fan
I find that hard to analogize. I could say that Kronheimer and Mrowka's work is like that because they solve all the problems they see with gauge theory :p
 
well mostly it involves self-selecting problems for which the approach works
Well, in some sense solving every problem with a path-integral is like solving every problem with gauge theory
considering everything that I know about gauge theory is based on the path integral idea
 
I think a lot of very good mathematicians use not very many techniques to solve a problem.
I don't think there is a thm of Freedman that isn't a corollary of the disk theorem for example.
 
I mean that it's a bit silly, they're gauge theorists, they do gauge theory. The problems they solve will be applications of gauge theory because they do gauge theory, and they will pick these problems because they have done some gauge theory and see that it applies to some problem
 
Indeed, although I get the sense that 'gauge theory' is a bit broader than 'path-integral approach.' So I guess this sorta depends on how you classify things as 'hammers'
 
6:06 AM
is anybody here familiar with the IST approach to NSA?
 
6:22 AM
What exactly are these asymptotic considerations mentioned in the proof of Theorem 1.3?
 
 
1 hour later…
7:41 AM
Any computer scientists here?
poliz
 
8:00 AM
@Gigili I think that there is a computer science SE...
@PVAL Confusingly ;)
 
8:27 AM
@MikeMiller $X$ be an $n$-dimensional CW-complex. $H^n(X;\Bbb Z) = [X, K(\Bbb Z, n)] = [X, K(\Bbb Z, n)^{(n+1)}]$. Keeping that in mind, we can build a model for $K(\Bbb Z, n)$ which consists of a $0$-cell, an $n$-cell (and no intermediate cells in between) and all higher cells of dimension $\geq n + 2$, because there is no extra relators to take care of in $\Bbb Z$, and to kill maps from $S^{n+1}$, it is sufficient to attach $(n + 2)$-cells.
This immediately tells us that $[X, S^n]$ is countable, but we have to incorporate the data about degree into our consideration, otherwise this fact would not be effective. I am not yet sure how to do this.
 
9:00 AM
@Danu Yes, I am aware of all SE site
 
@DanielFischer Hi. Another question on importance. The Spectral Mapping Theorem is given by: If $a \in \mathcal{A}:= $ unital Banach Algebra and $f \in \text{hol}(a)$.Then $\sigma(f(a)) = f(\sigma(a))$. Is it's importance simply a way of computing $\sigma(f(a))$?
 
@Moses I think the importance is more on the theoretical side.
 
9:29 AM
Does anyone here have any tips regarding websites to buy textbooks (mathematics/physics) cheaply?
2
 
Euler and Ramanujan would like to see my last tools developed in integration ...
(hehehe - of course, I'm proud to say it - it's about achievements)
 
They're dead as dodo, though. :P
 
@BalarkaSen They live in our minds forever. :D
 
Help.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Are you still working on that book?
 
9:45 AM
@IWantToRemainAnonymous These days I work more on research. I managed to discover amazing ways of calculating very hard integrals like $$\int_0^{\pi} \arctan^7\left(\frac{\sin (x)}{2 \sqrt{2}}\right)\csc ( x) \, dx$$
@IWantToRemainAnonymous Of course, I also work on book, I just added another question to my book.
 
@Danu If you aren't interested in the product quality then you may look for Indian editions, they're in general cheaper, usually available @ebay. For instance, Apostol's Calculus V.1 is at around 200 dollars at amazon, while only 17 dollars for the Indian version at ebay.
:23800157 Very remarkable how $1/\varphi^2$ gets related to the chi function
 
after the IST axioms, the idea of a finite set containing all the standard natural numbers seems so...unnatural
 
@IWantToRemainAnonymous It's more than that. This is what it seems at the surface of the problems. :-)
 
10:07 AM
@IWantToRemainAnonymous Thanks for the reply.
Do you know if shipping to Europe would be a problem, or quite normal?
 
@DanielFischer Something mentioned previously. If we have $\mathcal{A} \subset \mathcal{L}(X)$. Where $u$ it the unit of $\mathcal{A}$. Then since $u$ is linear and idempotent, it is a projection and we can write $u = E_{1} + E_{2}$ and $Y = E_{1}Y \oplus E_{2}Y$ where you stated that $Y$ is the range of $u$.
Then since $Y = u(X)$ it follows that $$Y = E_{1}u(X) \oplus E_{2}u(X)$$ That's fine, but why do you write $E_{k} = E_{k} \circ u$ to get $Y = E_{1}(X) \oplus E_{2}(X)$. I don't see the reasoning behind that sicne we don't necessarily have $u(X) = X$?
@DanielFischer I am referring to the second decomposition with regard to the spectrum $\sigma(a)$.
 
@IWantToRemainAnonymous Unfortunately, it seems that the books that I'm interested in do not have Indian editions listed on ebay :\
 
Have you tried any russian sites?
 
@Rigor Any suggestions?
 
There was one really good one that just recently got shut down :(
Let me search, if I find it I'll let you know pal.
 
10:24 AM
@Danu bookfi...?
 
@BalarkaSen I'm looking to buy physical copies of some books---I am aware of the usual downloading sites, but that's not what I'm after right now.
 
ah, I see.
 
@Moses Not sure what your question is. Since $u$ is the unit of $\mathcal{A}$, we have $E_k = E_k\circ u$. So we have $E_k(X) = (E_k\circ u)(X) = E_k(u(X)) = E_k(Y)$.
 
10:54 AM
@Chris'ssistheartist So, your arctan question was removed. Did you succeed in simplifying it? Also, do you plan to publish/tell your method of doing such an integral?
 
@mickep To many disrespectful comments to a work that I consider to be brilliant. Besides that I was also downvoted. No, I don't plan to share anything about calculating such integrals.
@mickep I might publish something, or just add things in my next books.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist A colleague of mine asked me in the lunch room why I was commenting on such questions. He certainly downvoted :(
 
@mickep The simplification process is a tedious one, still under work.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist And the book will be published? What is the reason to keep methods by yourself? :)
 
@mickep One might take it from here and publish it using different integrals before I manage to do it.
@mickep One thing: people in chat I trust, I shared many times things with them.
 
10:59 AM
@Chris'ssistheartist So you plan to do it at least. That is good to know.
 
@mickep Yes. I plan to publish in my first book like 500 integrals, series and limits.
 
Nice, I'm looking forward to it.
 
;)
@mickep screenshot it (if you like it) because I delete it from here.
 
off topic algebra. By Dummit/Foote (pg 549) Cor 36, in a finite field of characteristic $p$, every element is a $p$th power (use the Frobenius endomorphism). They define a field $K$ of characteristic $p$ or $0$ to be perfect if every element of $K$ is a $p$th power in $K$. By the Corollary, doesn't this imply that every field is perfect (which is false)?
 
@Chris'ssistheartist That is a nice one! Do you do math for fun only, or also for work?
 
11:05 AM
@mickep I also attend some tutoring with good results, but I'm self-educated, no background in math, and do it because it's a passion to me.
More than a passion maybe.
 
Hehe, sounds good.
 
@TheSubstitute Every finite field is perfect, and every field of characteristic $0$ is perfect. Infinite fields of positive characteristic may or may not be perfect.
 
@DanielFischer yes, thank you
 
11:25 AM
Actually, I find it much much harder to get my edits accepted in this community than anywhere else on the SE network.
 
@TRiG Well, your edit summary did not mention the image improvement, so he might have missed it.
 
I'm a prolific editor, and my edits are rarely rejected, except here (and sometimes TeX).
> Tidied grammar. Improved image alt text.
 
@TRiG Right, that does not say anything about improving the image itself
 
@TobiasKildetoft Because I didn't. Look at the markdown. It's the same image, with vastly improved alt text. Y'know, for blind people. As I said.
 
@TRiG You think reviewers do read the edit summaries?
(Some do)
 
11:43 AM
@DanielFischer Reviewers too lazy to read edit summaries should be barred from reviewing. They're there for a reason.
 
@TRiG In theory. In practice, not all editors write useful summaries like you. More like "fixed grammer" or "made more pretty". I can to some extent understand people who have stopped caring about edit summaries.
 
@Danu Frankly idk
@Danu or you could just print out the books you want
 
12:00 PM
anyone got any ideas about math.stackexchange.com/questions/1414796/… ?
I don't really know where to start
 
@IWantToRemainAnonymous I'd only be buying a few books: Ones that I'd like to be able to look up stuff in for the coming 10+ years. Printing is therefore not a real option.
 
@Danu You could look for used books
 
@IWantToRemainAnonymous If you know a good site, let me know. On amazon, the used copies are not much cheaper than the new ones.
 
12:22 PM
Thanks!
 
@Danu if you find what you were searching for please tell me
 
@IWantToRemainAnonymous I may have found something of interest, through the last link.
 
12:37 PM
@BalarkaSen I don't rally understand. You agree that you just showed the map $[X, S^n] \to [X, K(G,n)]$ is a bijection, yes?
(Note that you implicitly used a case of the Hopf degree theorem here - $\pi_n S^n = \Bbb Z$. This was inevitable.)
 
$[X, S^n] \to [X, K(\Bbb Z, n)]$, but yeah.
But how can you show that composition of the map with the bijection $[X, K] \to H^n(X;\Bbb Z)$ is the degree map?
 
Hello!! Could you take a look at the proof of the Theorem 3 and tell me at which point we use Lemma 6? I have read the proof several times but I haven't understood how this Lemma helps us...
The Lemma and the Theorem 3 are the following: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1382120/ft-has-undecidable-positive-existential-theory-in-the-language-cdot
 
Oh, I guess you only know that those are in bijection, you never learned what the map is!
Once you learn that, the map will be obvious. :P
 
I don't know what the map is. I just shows by general nonsense that $[-, K(G, n)]$ is the same as a functor as $H^n(-; G)$, remember?
 
OK, then finish this when you learn what the map is.
 
12:41 PM
ok.
Morning, by the way.
 
A funny question: calculate without pen and paper $$\lim_{n\to \infty} \left(\frac{n}{\log (n)}\right)^2 \int _{\large (1/n)^{1/n}}^1\int _{\large (1/n)^{1/n}}^1\frac{1}{(x+y) (1+x y)} \ dx \ dy$$
 
@Balarka: Actually the point here is that since you know $H^n(-;\Bbb Z) \cong \text{Hom}(-,K(G,n))$ you can use the Yoneda lemma, and in particular the explicit bijection it gives.
 
ahh
 
So unless you know that off the top of your head, look at it.
 
yeah, it certainly looks Yoneda-ish. I'm not sure what kind of category you have to be in to apply Yoneda, though. hTop is a pretty wacky category.
@MikeMiller I have little experience with Yoneda lemma, so I'll have to look it up.
 
12:54 PM
What? Yoneda has literally no assumptions whatsoever. That's the point.
 
I just learned such a thing exists when I peeked in Szamuely (it was an authorized peek) and saw how Grothendieck used it.
@MikeMiller ok, I didn't know that.
 
I mean, that's the point (to me) of a lot of category theory. There are no assumptions, it tells you what things are true in "full generality" instead of your special case.
 
Fair enough, but that's still something at the level of book-keeping, though. Instead of knowing a thousand special-cases, you write down a single concrete fully general thing which you can apply whenever and wherever you want. I know that's useful (I have actually found it to be so), but I'd still like to see some concrete application of category theory where it does something other that book-keeping.
Don't get me wrong, I am sure there exists a lot of them, having already "seen" one of them -- Grothendieck's Galois theory.
Well, another example is of course homological algebra. That's a pretty general nonsensical thing which can be used to do nontrivial non-bookkeeping stuff.
 
That was not a call for opinions.
 
1:10 PM
I was merely pointing out what kind of applications of category theory I'd like to see, interpreting that message of yours above written in the context of my ignorance towards category theory I had expressed a few months ago. But if it was not, nevermind.
 
You have moved the goalposts enough times in this discussion that I have absolutely zero desire to have it again with you.
 
That's all the better, I don't want to discuss philosophy either :P. I'm doing some calculus right now.
 
1:58 PM
I hate when people use the word "book-keeping"
 
hi @PedroTamaroff.
 
I think it's the word I hate, and hence its use.
 
Why do you hate it?
 
It's usually used with a negative connotation, which is silly.
 
"negative connotation" oh?
 
2:03 PM
One must get used to book-keeping, it's part of the trade.
 
ok, I see.
@PedroTamaroff What are you learning? Been doing much math?
 
$\int_a^b f(x) dx= \int_a^b f(a+b-x) dx $ holds not for the reason that one can substitute $u=a+b-x$ for the RHS right? Am I right? Its insane, that I found that written somewhere.....because the limits will definitely change in the second integral.....
I know that $\int_a^b f(x) dx= \int_a^b f(a+b-x) dx $ is True
but its not for this reason right?
 
That substitution is fine
Carry it out and you'll see.
 
@PedroTamaroff but then the lower limit become $u=a+b-a=b$ and not a.....
@PedroTamaroff it would be $\int_a^b f(x) dx= \int_b^a f(a+b-x) dx $ with that substitution
 
@BalarkaSen Field theory, some geometry (classical geometry of curves and surfaces) and topology (I'm waiting for the course to get a bit more interesting)
@TheArtist thats wrong. you're missing a sign
 
2:08 PM
But you already know field theory and topology, don't you?
 
The differential is now -dx.
 
@PedroTamaroff oh thank you :D
 
@BalarkaSen Topology I know point set, field theory no, not really. Just started reading about it some weeks ago.
 
oh, I guess it's an algebraic topology course?
 
Half and half.
 
2:10 PM
you'd have fun learning covering spaces and galois theory side-by-side, then. i'm jealous. :P
 
Half point set, half intro to algebraic.
 
I see.
 
I've heard there is an analogy betwen Galois theoryand covering spaces.
 
Yes.
And the analogy is very deep. I don't know nearly enough to talk about it other than the superifical analogies.
 
@robjohn I won at the casino 10 times in a row (10 times I have been there in my life) and it happened since last week.......is it all just luck ? :P
 
2:14 PM
That's OK, I don't care too much about it.
 
Why not?
 
I just don't. :)k
 
The search for an explanation for the analogy leads you to Grothendieck's algebraic geometry.
@PedroTamaroff OK.
Hi @PaulPlummer.
 
Hi @BalarkaSen
 
Been doing any math, @PaulPlummer?
 
2:28 PM
How do you feel about Spivaks Intro to differential geomtry vol 1, as an intro (it looks nice to me, but it does not seem to get as many recommendation)? @TedShifrin @MikeMiller
 
Intro to what?
I dunno, I don't really have a good intro to manifolds recommendation. I learned from Lee, which has its faults.
 
Not much, started playing Go, and playing a bit of catch up/refresher for the differential geometry course I am doing @BalarkaSen
Yourself? @BalarkaSen
 
@PaulPlummer Nothing fancy. Some multivariable analysis, commutative algebra. Learning singular cohomology too.
 
@PaulPlummer: There's a paper on the arXiv that describes the algorithmic solution to the homeomorphism problem of 3-manifolds. I haven't read it yet, but maybe you'd like it.
 
@PaulPlummer sounds cool. I dunno anything about differential geometry.
 
2:33 PM
A comprehensive introduction to differential geometry, is the title. @MikeMiller okay
 
you have given up on algebraic topology, then?
(here's the link to that, btw)
 
No, just havnt had time, now that I am getting into the groove of things I should have more time @BalarkaSen
 
nice!
 
I wonder why I was not pinged when that was originally sent
(the first mention of the paper
 
It happens sometimes.
 
2:46 PM
Looks like a nice paper though, printing it off now
 
@PaulPlummer: You had been gone for more than a week.
 
Yah, first week of school
last week
 
That's all I meant, that's why you weren't pinged.
 
Oh, I see
 
Pings vanish if they aren't opened for more that a week?
 
2:47 PM
forgot about that rule
 
I didn't know that.
 
No, if you are not in chat for more than a week, you don't get pinged
 
oh. weird.
 
Not weird. If someone leaves chat for a year, do you think they want to get pinged?
one just decreases that amount of time until it's reasonable to stop. A week is a reasonable amount.
 
ah, ok, that makes sense.
 
2:50 PM
@TheArtist It is most likely. Unless of course you are a card counter playing blackjack.
 
Well got to go. I should get a computer in my office...(or maybe I shouldn't)
 
@robjohn i played baccarat all throughout.....i dont think card counting works now
@robjohn hmmm so its illogical to think that going for the 11th time would be good too?
 
@TheArtist The statistics with the larger number of samples (the one where the house always wins) would seem to have more reliability than your 10 samples, but feel free to try again :-)
You can always get your picture in the lobby at a number of casinos :-D
 
@robjohn interesting....is it "always win"? like ALWAYS? if you play 100 times are you guaranteed to losing?
@robjohn picture in the lobby at a number of casino ? ;) what what what? :D didnt get you
 
@TheArtist Card counters and others who seem to beat the odds often become unwelcome at casinos, and they will reward you by putting your picture up so their employees will recognize you.
 
2:59 PM
@robjohn really ? even if I dont cheat? :D
@robjohn that sounds awesome lol :D
 
@TheArtist whether you cheat or not is not the point. They won't pursue legal action if they can't prove cheating, but they can kick you out if you cost them money.
 
@robjohn not really big amounts for them......i profit on the range of $150-200 per day...is that big enough?
 
Of course, they want people to win some money some of the time. That is what keeps people coming back; but if they start noticing a pattern with someone, they will take notice.
 
hi @robjohn I was wondering if you had any ideas about math.stackexchange.com/questions/1414796/… ?
sorry to ask directly
before I add all my points as a bounty
 
@robjohn oh i see :) yes :) lets see, il let you know what happens tmrow ;)
 
3:24 PM
@TheArtist If you do that consistently, they will definitely take note.
@TheArtist good luck
@Anush Oh, gee... you mean, if I'd waited to answer, there would have been a bounty? Doh! :-)
@Anush I misread the question anyway, so I deleted my answer.
 
@robjohn Hi, everytime I see answers from you, I wonder why your avatar looks so angry. Btw, I like your answers, and don't feel the anger in them :)
 
@MikeMiller I am writing down my observations on $[X, K(G, n)] = H^n(X; G)$ explicitly and I found some vague arguments in them that I am trying to patch up First, recall that I tried to consider the analogue for cup products, $[X, K(G, n)] \times [X, K(G, m)] \to [X, K(G, m+n)]$ by looking at the map $K(G, n) \times K(G, m) \to K(G, n + m)$ defined by visualizing $Y = K(G, n) \times K(G, m)$ as a torus, gluing $(n+1)$-balls and $(m+1)$-balls along the meridian and longitude of $Y$, respectively
so that $\pi_n$ and $\pi_m$ vanishes, and then added more cells above $(m+n)$-th level so that higher homotopy groups vanishes. Now, this doesn't work : when I glued the $(m+1)$ and $(n+1)$-balls, that may automatically attract nontrivial homotopy groups at $\pi_{n+k}$ and $\pi_{m+k}$ levels. So one also have to attach cells of dimension between $n > m$ and $n+m$. However, that also adds some stuff to $\pi_{m+n}$, so we don't know if $\pi_{m+n} = G$ anymore. :(
How can I fix this?
 
I mean, what you just said is wrong already. $K(G,n) \times K(G,m)$ is not the desired codomain. You want $K(G,n) \wedge K(G,m) = (K(G,n) \times K(G,m))/(K(G,n) \vee K(G,m))$. This is $(n+m-1)$-connected and has the desired $\pi_{n+m}$. Now add higher cells. We talked about this before.
 
Gluing $(n+1)$ and $(m+1)$ balls like I said precisely turns it into the smash product you're talking about.
 
3:39 PM
Uh, no it doesn't.
 
gluing those cells essentially glues a cone over a copy of $K(G, n) \vee K(G, m)$ with it. That's precisely $K(G, n) \times K(G, m)$ quotiented out by that wedge, no?
 
OK, whatever, you seem to have a handle on the situation.
 
@MikeMiller My question is why that is $(m+n-1)$ connected.
because it's not obvious in the way I am doing it. gluing $(n+1)$ and $(m+1)$ balls will make homotopy groups above that level sprout up like mad.
 
@Balarka: I told you how to do it, and you appear to not have needed my advice. So you should be able to solve the problem now.
 
@MikeMiller Um, what is your advice? I don't see a difference between $K(G, n) \wedge K(G, m)$ and my space, but let's agree that it's not my space. I don't know how to compute homotopy groups of smash products. :S
I mean, it's not clear to me why $\pi_{n+1}(K(G, n) \wedge K(G, m))$ is trivial, say. My homotopy theory is weak.
 
3:52 PM
@PaulPlummer: Spivak is a bit verbose, but it's well written and has good exercises. Boothby is another good, older book.
Goodnight @MikeM
 
Hello @TedShifrin
 
Hi @Balarka. Greetings from Stanford.
 
You're at Stanford?
 
For a few days ... Visiting an old friend/student who's a geometric analyst and his family.
 
That's nice. I have been doing a few exercises from your book, I will send them to you once I have done enough of them.
 
3:58 PM
@robjohn thank you :)
 
OK, but I'm away from my computer for 2 weeks.
 
@MikeMiller Whoops! My space is not $K(G, n) \wedge K(G, m)$, you are right. The wedge product has no cells below $m + n$, so it's $(m+n-1)$-connected.
 
Finding a few interesting ones?
Hi @robjohn
 
@TedShifrin I solved your tractrix problem. The fixed point problem is interesting.
 
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