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r9m
5:00 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist ah! I already know how ingenious your solutions can be ,,, no need to tell me that ;)
 
@Rememberme yepyep - some users do this. I sort of like it, as it gives more visibility to both and implies a sort of community
 
@Chris'ssistheartist also you can share your nice solutions with the mse blog
 
@Chris'ssistheartist I presume we're talking about very clever integration bits. Out of curiousity, do you have a source of interesting problems (and perhaps solutions) outside of forums like here or AoPS or Integrals&Series?
 
@mixedmath In general all I post are my creations :-). No, I don't have other sources except my mind.
 
5:02 PM
(same question to @r9m, for that matter)
@Chris'ssistheartist they've very clever. I like them very much
 
(of course, there are some exceptions, but rare)
@mixedmath Thank you very much. :-)
@mixedmath I my book you'll find a lot of such stuff including all series in Flajolet and Salvy done easily by real methods.
And many other advanced series done in the easiest way.
A lot of integrals and limits, of course, up to 500.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist what is your book?
 
This reminds me of RB, oddly.
 
@mixedmath I'm working on it at the moment, it's going to be a collection of integrals, series and limits major part being created by me, around 500 problems.
(problems and solutions)
 
@Chris'ssistheartist that sounds pretty tremendous. If you were ever interested in having a reviewer (or, more to the point, a previewer), let me know
 
5:07 PM
@mixedmath Thank you. I think I'll need some support at some time. :-)
OK
Th hardest part is indeed the way you present the content to the readers, not the mathematics, not at all. That makes the difference between an ordinary book and a special book that a reader might like.
 
@BalarkaSen x_0=6,x_1=-6,t=0.5 works
 
I like Paul Nahin's style pretty much, from his book Inside Interesting Integrals.
 
in general, $(x_0, x_1) = (p, -p)$ works.
Nothing special about 6.
 
Yes its just an example
 
@Remember Geometrically, you're joining antipodal points on some circle centered at the origin. Thus, that's bound to pass through the origin.
 
5:11 PM
Hmm....
 
Didn't you already have this in mind?
How did you work out the example then?
 
I didn't get you... I had this in mind but wasn't able to write it here since I had some school work.
 
No, I mean, how did you come up with the example if you didn't have the geometric picture I just told you? I'm curious.
Algebraic manipulations?
yuck.
 
r9m
@mixedmath I often browse through the math integral answers in Brilliant and Quora ... but I guess the AoPS, I&S and M.Se are unrivaled in terms of the enormous variation and flavors of integrals asked .. :)
 
Okay I was thinking of a line... Which passes through the origin....@BalarkaSen
 
5:14 PM
anyway, $\Bbb R^2 - (0, 0)$ can be shown to be path-connected by joining points by straightlines and joining them by paths when it makes sense, and deforming them around the origin a bit if they hit the origin.
 
Then I found that since it is a lone passing through the origin then one point will be negative and other will be positive... So using these facts I worked out an example
 
But writing down a formula is messy, so just take that as an exercise if you want, or don't if you don't want.
OK : give me an example of a space which is not path connected.
Should be easy enough.
 
I have one question.....
 
shoot.
 
r9m
@Rememberme any material I find bloggable are for my blog first and then anywhere else .. :P so I would never have contents for m.se blog :P
 
5:16 PM
Path connectedness implies connectedness right @BalarkaSen
 
yes. prove this.
then you should be able to find a non-path-connected space too.
 
An example will be R right.... Which is not path connected
 
huh? R is path-connected.
 
Oh okay .....
I confused up stuff...
 
no, not okay. prove this.
 
r9m
5:18 PM
@BalarkaSen I'm strangely attracted towards the infinite brooms :P
 
make sure you understand the concept before moving on!
@r9m I like the topologist's sine curve.
 
Since we were talking about R^2 minus a point I thought R minus a point which is not path connected right ?@BalarkaSen
 
R - 0 is of course not path connected (prove this). Why should that mean R is not path-connected?
 
That's the thing which I was thinking
 
r9m
@BalarkaSen :-) perhaps my attraction has something to do with the fact that I'm often a cleanomaniac :P (and thus towards brooms)
 
5:20 PM
I don't think you understand path-connectedness yet.
 
No it should not but I was thinking something not related to the question you asked me @BalarkaSen
I was thinking about something else @BalarkaSen
 
@r9m cleanomanianc's not a thing, last time I heard.
:P
 
I get why R is path connected
 
why?
why is it path connected?
 
You can easily construct a function going according to your properties
 
5:22 PM
that's not a proof
 
I mean properties of path connectedness
 
construct it, instead of saying that you can construct.
 
r9m
@BalarkaSen clean - o - maniac ! just made it up :P lol
 
@r9m yep, I knew that.
 
r9m
@BalarkaSen I learnt clinomaniac is a term for my species too (people who love sleeping :P)
 
5:26 PM
@BalarkaSen does the topologist sine curve has some relation with pathconnectedness ?
 
you're asking random questions, not proving any of what I told you to prove.
I think I'd rather not give you the exercise I wanted to give.
I have to go, bubye.
 
No no... I will I am going to prove em ...
Just wait a bit..
 
r9m
@Rememberme I'd suggest if you want to read topology .. for a gentler introduction you can read Kumaresan's Topology of Metric Spaces book .. which has very good exposition and a good number of exercises :)
 
2
Q: What do you think is the largest problem facing Math.SE today (July 2015)?

mixedmathI think it can safely be said that Math.StackExchange (and MathOverflow and perhaps some of the sister sites on the SE network) are the best resources for (English-speaking) people with objective math questions on the web. There are other math sites, such as those mentioned in Useful Mathematical...

 
@r9m I am currently doing connectedness..... I have finished metric and topological spaces ...
 
r9m
5:37 PM
@Rememberme the book contains topics on connectedness as well .. why topologist's sine curve is not path connected has two proofs in that book as far as I can recall ..
 
@BalarkaSen howdy-do
 
@BalarkaSen yes, absolute galois groups act transitively on embeddings of algebraic extensions
 
@anon is that obvious?
hello @iwriteonbananas
 
5:52 PM
i find this somewhat interesting:
 
@BalarkaSen every field homomorphism $A\to B$ can be extended to algebraic closures $\bar{A}\to\bar{B}$ by transfinite induction (I'm assuming everything's separable so I don't have to think about that).
 
@Balarka I have an example of a set which is not path connected
 
oh, I see.
 
@BalarkaSen given a map $S^n\to S^n$ that preserves antipodes and is of even degree, how can we construct a map $S^n\to S^n$ of degree zero?
 
we can construct a map S^n --> S^n of degree 0 without caring about an antipode-preserving map of even degree, so not sure how those two relate
 
5:54 PM
what is that map?
i know it for $S^1$
oh yeah of course
 
just construct something non-surjective
 
anything that's not surjective
 
The set :
$K=\{(0,y)|y\in [-1,1]\}$ @Balarka is not path connected with topology induced from $\Bbb{R^2}$
It works right @Balarka
 
it's path-connected.
 
It is not......
 
5:56 PM
you're wrong.
 
that's a line segment in R^2 from (0,-1) to (0,1) isn't it?
 
@BalarkaSen do you know something about $L^2$-invariants?
 
Okay let me check..
Yes @anon
 
nope, @iwriteonbananas
@Rememberme line segements are path connected
 
5:56 PM
okay....
 
like i said, i don't think you understand path connectedness yet
continue with Munkres, forget about the problem i was talking about
 
I do or how else was I able to prove what you said @Balarka
No please
 
don't be silly. Munkres talks path connectedness later. it's good to gather more topological maturity (is that even a thing?) before.
 
Okay but incase do tell me about the problem...
 
nah.
 
5:59 PM
Ahhh......
Fine..... (I dont have anything else to do then :p)
@Balarka ... last question (I wont disturb you anymore)
You asked for the example of a set which is not path connected right,
$\Bbb{R} \setminus {x}$ is not path connected right.....
 
@anon mortal flaw with my analogy : k-isoms between separable closures are paths, so k-auts of k^alg should be loops. precisely these form Gal(\bar k/k), so that becomes an analog for loopspace. no notion of homotopy there. something's amiss.
i am not talking about path connectedness anymore, @Remember
until you learn those in Munkres
 
Okay....
 
@anon I feel I know what's wrong. I promoted "points" from algebraic closures k^alg to inclusions k --> k^alg. but i forgot to do this with paths.
that said, the correct notion of loop based at a pt * : k --> k^alg should be an aut f : k^alg --> k^alg such that $f = * \circ f$
note : * is a morphism
 
do you mean $*=f\circ *$?
 
yeah, whoops.
paths in L between points $*_1 : L \hookrightarrow \bar k$ and $*_2 : L \hookrightarrow \bar k$ are then k-auts $\sigma : \bar k \to \bar k$ such that the obvious diagram consisting of $*_1$, $*_2$ and $\sigma$ commutes.
i am trying to develop a path-lifting lemma right now
i guess i have kind of a "loop lifting lemma"
although my proof is ad-hoc. I'd want to mimic the topological proof, but that'd require developing the notion of an open cover -- that sounds hard, as covers are topological.
 
6:26 PM
hey.
 
hmm, the problem with Gal(k^alg/k) is still not resolved. an element of Gal(k^alg/k) is indeed an aut k^alg --> k^alg which is absorbed by the standard basepoint k --> k^alg. :s
 
homological algebra lemma pls.
 
hello @Soham
 
i had great fun making huge commutative SES diagrams today. :P
are you there?
 
ok. let $A \stackrel{f}{\to} B \stackrel{g}{\to} C$ be a short exact sequence in $\mathsf{AbGrp}$. if there is a homomorphism $s : C \to B$ such that $gs = \text{id}_C$, then $B \cong A \oplus C$.
this is called the splitting lemma in $\mathsf{AbGrp}$
$s$, if exists, is called a section (of the short exact sequence), and the sequence is said to split.
I found this theorem pretty surprising when I first got to know this.
 
6:31 PM
i can think of it like this: $B/A\cong C$. everything is nicer in $\sf Ab$, so take $A$ to the RHS. :P
 
you can't do this always.
 
$C_4/C_2\cong C_2$, that doesn't mean $C_4\cong C_2\times C_2$
 
$\Bbb Z_2 \to \Bbb Z_4 \to \Bbb Z_2$ is an example of a sequence that doesn't split
 
oh, i was joking.
 
splitting lemma gives you a criterion to do it
 
6:33 PM
hmm.
i believe this holds in arbitrary abelian cats?
 
yes.
the power of the theorem is that : so simple of a criterion tells you so much.
 
yes.
apparently $f$ has a left-inverse. (as in, there is some $r$ s.t. $rf = \rm{id}_A$.)
 
it doesn't hold in $\mathsf{Grp}$, unfortunately, but something of a partial generalization works. that same criterion, except that $B$ is a semidirect product of $A$ and $C$.
that's powerful too : semidirect products have nice presentations
 
Wikipedia tells me that $f$ has a left-inverse if $g$ has a right-inverse.
 
yes, existence of a section is equivalent to existence of a retraction.
but i like to think about sections more.
(retraction is the left-inverse of $f$)
 
6:38 PM
ah. all this abstract-nonsense-y stuff pleases me. :P
give me another SES problem, then.
something I can do, that is.
 
prove that if $A \to B \to \Bbb Z$ is a short exact sequence of abgroups, then $B = A \oplus \Bbb Z$ (hint : use splitting lemma).
 
so essentially, show that any such SES splits. hmm, interesting.
 
cool, isn't it?
 
very.
adds Weibel to ever-growing list
 
it means, that, say, every abgroup is direct sum of $\Bbb Z^d$ and it's torsion part.
$d$ is called the rank of the abelian group.
 
6:42 PM
Serre has some such result, no?
 
ah, all the things I'll learn . . .
dunno, higher htpy groups of spheres or something.
or was it elliptic curve groups?
 
both.
 
ah.
what does torsion mean?
i've heard "order-2 stuff in a group"
 
subgroup of all finite-order elts.
 
6:43 PM
okay.
 
@BalarkaSen Hmm, is it easier to do for $\mathbb{Z}$ than for arbitrary rings?
 
classification of abgroups classifies torsion of an abgroup. that's the hard part.
classification thm says torsion is always direct sum of cyclic groups.
 
@BalarkaSen how does this follow?
 
@TobiasKildetoft it works for free groups in general
 
I remember seeing some presentation on ECs where they say that they know little about ranks of EC groups.
 
6:45 PM
it's easy to prove it. not sure what you're referring to by "arbitrary rings"
 
this is very interesting stuff.
 
@BalarkaSen It works for projective modules in general
and rings are free (hence projective) over themselves
 
@SohamChowdhury there is a SES $Tor(M) \to M \to \Bbb Z^{rank(M)}$
@TobiasKildetoft oh sure.
 
and this splits?
I see.
 
oh, actually, no, that doesn't work.
\Bbb Z^rank(M) is not free.
bah
I am sure you can get it to work somehow by putting $\Bbb Z$ in there one by one.
 
6:47 PM
i figured that.
 
ok, gotta go
 
add $\Bbb Z$s on the end one by one.
you'll eat now, right?
ta ta. I should be in bed.
 
@BalarkaSen as long as the rank is finite is sure is free (in the category of abelian groups)
 
thanks for the cool stuff, @Balarka. next blog post will be on SESes. ;)
 
@Tobias I am on the chapter called conectedness and compactness....(In munkres)
Though this is not a theorem I want to think about this:
A set X being connected can I say anything about its complement ?
Is it connected or not and such things
 
6:52 PM
@Rememberme No, being connected is all about the subspace topology on the set
which will generally tell you nothing about the topology on the complement
 
@Rememberme its complement could be literally anything. let Y be any topological space, then consider the disjoint union of X and Y. in here, X's complement is Y... which is anything we wanted it to be.
 
@TobiasKildetoft oh right, for some reason I was assuming M is not abelian.
the logic's fine as long as sequences are in AbGrp
 
Okay Ahh.....
 
thanks for pointing that out
 
Though we can say stuff about the closure of the connected set right....?
 
6:55 PM
@Rememberme No
 
Not even the closure....
Connectedness seems to be a self sustained property.....
 
7:16 PM
Hello@Ramanewbie
 
Hi @Rememberme
 
@DanielFischer I posted that answer here with a caveat.
 
@RandomVariable Holy wow, $\cos (a\tan x)$, that is an ugly beast.
 
@DanielFischer Sometimes there is a fine line between ugliness and beauty.
 
@RandomVariable I didn't mean ugly in an aesthetic sense, just not-so-nice to handle. Although achille's answer is also quite cool.
 
7:27 PM
@DanielFischer Hi D Fischer, please give your opinion on my post.
 
r9m
@RandomVariable That's an interesting calculation!! nice (+1)
 
@LucioD Basically, I can't say anything that Crostul didn't already say. You have a family of sets you want to be the closed sets, so you check whether the family has the required properties (closed under finite unions and arbitrary intersections).
 
@r9m Thanks. It won't be completely justified until I understand more about the convergence of that Maclaurin series on the unit circle.
 
7:47 PM
@DanielFischer In your opinion, don't prove it. But does the finite union property seem that it holds? Having difficulty with this one.
 
@LucioD For the finite unions, it suffices to take two sets. It seems to be fairly straightforward then.
 
@robjohn Excuse me. Suppose I want to evaluate $\displaystyle\lim_{n\to\infty}\left(\sqrt{\frac{9^n}{n^2} + \frac{3^n}{5n}+2}-\frac{3^n}{n}\right)$. Is it valid if I make the change of variable $y=\dfrac{3^n}{n}$ ?
oops, that was supposed to be $-\dfrac{3^n}{n}$ there
 
@Cristopher Add a couple of spaces [I just did that here]. Otherwise the software inserts a zero-width joiner after 80 characters, and that tends to break some latex commands.
 
@DanielFischer Okay, noted. Thanks :)
 
@Cristopher You're welcome. And yes, it is valid to make that change of variable.
 
7:59 PM
Great! Thank you Daniel =)
 
Could someone explain to me the following sentence?

"A primitive element in a field of order $r$ is a primitive $(r-1)$st root of unity."

Does this mean that for each element $x$ of a field of order $r$ it stands that $x^r-1=0$ and $x^n-1 \neq 0$ for $n<k$ ?
 
8:15 PM
@Cristopher yes. Most changes of variables are okay; whether they will lead anywhere is a different story.
 
@robjohn Well in this case I think it works and leads to the correct result (doesn't it?). At least that's what I think
Thanks for answering, btw
 
@Cristopher In this case, it does. I just didn't want to oversell that most substitutions are okay.
 
Alright. I see your point
 
@Hippalectryon how do we handle with this one? $$\int_0^1 (\operatorname{Li_2} (\sin(x)))^3 \ dx$$
Wrong limits
$$\int_0^{\pi/2} (\operatorname{Li_2} (\sin(x)))^3 \ dx$$
Did Ramanujan do such integrals? I just ask myself.
 
hi @Ted.
ah, he's gone.
 
8:46 PM
afternoon chat
 
Yup, he's gone.
hi @Semiclassic
 
hey @ted
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist could you evaluate the squared version?
 
i'm reading a paper with Grassmannians in them :)
(and actually understanding it, mercifully)
 
@r9m Of course.
 
r9m
8:52 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist I see ..
 
ah, my favorite, @Semiclassic
 
@TedShifrin not yet.
 
Hi @TedShifrin.
 
i know, i know, past my bedtime.
 
I was referring to me, by repeating your he.
hi @MichaelA
 
8:55 PM
@TedShifrin Getting all sorts of cool results on my problem.
 
@r9m I have in hands very powerful tools and simple, elementary at the same time. :-)
 
Well, cool speculations.
@TedShifrin ah, I see.
 
@TedShifrin: Would you mind checking an answer of mine? I think I am missing something as it seems to work out too simply.
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist -_- okay
 
I'm not entirely reliable these days, @MichaelA, but sure, if I can.
 

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