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8:00 PM
Ugh....
 
In other words Xander would be right, that my castle is illusory and I'm just using big words that don't mean anything so my objective now is to get complete closure on this specific question.
 
He is dubbed hence forth, Old Man Xander.
 
Xander is a master
 
Who calls those younger than him child
 
A lot of people
 
8:02 PM
??
 
XD I'm kidding.
I don't mind being called a child by him.
 
I am confident that I am younger than xander
 
I'm pretty sure that the "child" was a joke
 
I'm sure it was
 
probably with good intentions too, you're not too old
 
8:04 PM
@Jakobian Yup.
 
yeah I just didn't know a good word substitute... it was up-something
 
And I'm not the type to let jokes get to me. I screw with anyone I bond with.
 
how old are you?
 
8:04 PM
What age is considered too old?
 
facts
 
@SoumikMukherjee depends on for what
 
I suppose that would be debatable. For the most part, I don't consider age to matter too much.
But there are points where I do.
 
well as we all know - no mathematician will do great work after 30
 
And I'm a bit annoyed.
 
8:06 PM
unless you are Yitang zhang
outlier tho
 
Why is it that in the last two homeworks I've had....that they have to make the last few questions involve geometry >:(
 
@Jakobian Too old that no one can say "you're not too old"
 
@SoumikMukherjee Agreed.
 
@JohnZimmerman why?
 
@SoumikMukherjee You need to be $\pi^{\pi^{\pi^{\pi}}}$ age or older
where, as is obvious, $\pi^{\pi^{\pi^{\pi}}}$ is an integer
 
8:09 PM
I will say this: If you're able to get alzheimer's. Then you're too old.
Im saying the age in which you get it, thats when you are too old.
 
@SoumikMukherjee I believe mathematics is a young man's or woman's game or LGBTQ's game etc.
 
@JohnZimmerman Math is gender neutral.
 
@YourLordJoyBoy In essence I personally subscribe to ideology that mathematics is a young one's game.
 
@JohnZimmerman I don't think this is proper English
 
@Jakobian I know that it is not
 
8:12 PM
@JohnZimmerman Yes. But at the same time I wouldn't say it is for everyone. Aspects of it might be, however not every bit of math is for all.
And I'm curious about everyone's avatars.
Cause I notice, each one is very different.
 
well let's just say @YourLordJoyBoy that I personally believe that the probability declines with producing a great work as one increases in age. but I will speak no more on said matter.
 
@JohnZimmerman I hear you on that.
 
some avatars are computer generated like mine
others have a story behind them
 
Mine's from a comic.
 
Which comic is that?
 
8:15 PM
Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (2016)
Suppose I should have elaborated to not just a comic, but a series of comics.
 
Yeah I used to watch P rangers
back in the day
 
@Jakobian This can very well be the biggest number that anyone mentioned in this room
 
And the character in the picture, he died in the suit you see.
You may know....or think you know him. I'm sure you at least know his name.
 
Gulgatron?
 
Nope.
His name is synomonus with Power Rangers.
 
8:17 PM
I only watched that one power ranger show where a dog was the chief
 
@SoumikMukherjee Ah, its funny you should mention that. Since the guy in the picture turned that dog into his pet.
FTR SPD was a good series. Real good.
 
8:38 PM
@JohnZimmerman As did I. And if you watched em back as far as I'm guessing, this guy's name should be quite familiar to you.
 
8:50 PM
My current grade btw: In algebra 1 that is
69.66 %
 
9:11 PM
Fabi got a huge time advantage
 
Fabi?
 
Fabiano Caruana, chess player
 
AH
Very cool
Hey @robjohn, Whats the story with your avatar?
-has hatred for Seel-
Dang it, I'll be back. Gotta pull weeds.
 
9:41 PM
tmw I feel stupid for not realizing sooner that $W_n(z \ln z) = \ln z$
 
10:04 PM
In Jacobson's Basic Algebra I, the exercise 1 in section 1.1 states: "Let $S$ be a set and define a product on $S$ by $ab=b$. Prove that $S$ is a semigroup". Jacobson defines a semigroup as a pair $(M,p)$ where $M$ is a non vacuous set and $p$ is a binary associative operation on $M$. Maybe I am being too much pedantic, but shouldn't the exercise 1.1 have the additional hypothesis that $S$ is non empty?
 
yes, S should be assumed nonempty
there is also a handful of quantifiers or other language implicit in the informal assertion that the string of symbols ab = b "define[s] a product"
 
Indeed. I assumed that he meant "for each $a,b \in S, ab=b$"
 
that's my addition to the "much too pendantic" pile :)
 
Anyone else open to talking about their avatars?
dududududududududududududududududu
 
frieren: offhand, i don't see anything about the semigroup idea that "requires" S/M to be nonempty, e.g. the empty set is a perfectly good associative binary operation on the empty set. but if Jacobson is stuffing nonemptiness into his definition of what a semigroup is, then he should certainly also stuff it into the hypothesis of that exercise
 
10:15 PM
Of course it had to update
THERE WE GO
All the math stuff looks like actual math again at long last.
 
@leslietownes You mean that since the definition of associativity states $\forall a,b,c \in S, (ab)c=a(bc)$, if $S=\emptyset$ the definition of associativity is vacuously true in $\emptyset$ and so, if we define semigroup differently allowing $S$ to be the empty set too, because the associativity holds in $\emptyset$ for any operation we deduce that $\emptyset$ is a semigroup with respect to any operation according to this different definition?
 
dada.......dada.................dada...................................dada...........................................dada...........................................................dada.....................................................................dada......................................................................dada....................................
 
I would agree that the empty semigroup should be allowed
 
I so want to mention a math problem. But I lack the time needed to work with anyone on it right now.....
 
frieren: yes (although i might say: with respect to the unique binary operation on the empty set :)
 
10:27 PM
@leslietownes thanks. Again, I will ask another question just to be sure I am understanding correctly: the unique operation you are referring to is some kind of "empty operation"? Because, in the case of the emtpy set, the domain of the operation should be $\emptyset \times \emptyset$ (which equals $\emptyset$) and the codomain should be $\emptyset$ because there aren't elements in the domain.
 
Shall return tomorrow, ladies and gents.
 
frieren: exactly
 
@Thorgott its a general consensus that models should be non-empty
 
the structure of what this binary operation "is" as a set might depend on how you encode functions as sets. e.g. if a function from X to Y is an ordered triple (X, Y, subset of XxY having the function property), this operation might be modeled as a nonempty set [whose structure depends on how you do ordered triples as sets]
but i do mean the 'function' you get by considering the empty set as a set of ordered pairs that vacuously satisfies the function property
 
Besides I don't like allowing the empty set because it gets funky when talking about ideals
I had a presentation about semigroups once and I decided to allow empty ideals, I remember that decision poorly
 
10:37 PM
in the context of algebraic theories, the empty model is explicitly allowed and desirable
 
Nope
Not in any books I've seen
And I don't think empty model is desirable
If it were then people wouldn't assume their algebraic theories as you said, are non-empty
 
In model theory the empty model is perfectly fine
 
I've never seen it disallowed and it makes little sense to do so
 
People say all the time in the context of Fraisse theory for example that amalgamating over the empty structure shows that the amalgamation property implies the joint embedding property for relational languages
 
you want your categories of models to be cocomplete
there is no initial semigroup if you don't allow an empty semigroup
 
10:44 PM
And why you want that anyway
 
I mean, the simplest example of an algebraic theory is that without any additional axioms: the theory of sets
but if you wanna make that the theory of non-empty sets instead...
 
@Thorgott there is no final object if you allow it
 
the terminal object is the unique semigroup with one element
 
Hm. True
But still, its not an important property to have
 
if you don't allow the empty semigroup, statements like "the intersection of two subsemigroups of a semigroup is a subsemigroup" have to be changed to "the intersection of two subsemigroups of a semigroup is a subsemigroup if it is non-empty"
 
10:48 PM
@copper.hat thanks for your answer, I appreciate it! :) However, I think I need some time to think about what you wrote. I only briefly looked at your answer and could not understand much. I understood the other answer more, but that answer, as I commented, used the fact that the Lebesgue measure of the oblique rectangle equals its volume, which we don't know yet. For now I can't say if or when I'll be able to look at your answer in more detail, but I know it's there and thanks nevertheless.
 
it's absolutely annoying
 
If you want to study specific universal algebras then it won't matter and it might simplify the theory
@Thorgott yeah. Honestly idk why people assume they're non-empty
I googled and I still don't know
Okay I think this is convincing enough. There's literally no arguments for non-empty semigroups
 
the empty semigroup is the alpha and the omega
 
The quotient map $\emptyset \to \emptyset/\emptyset$ is not surjective
Or I'm tired and latter is empty
Yes it is
 
I'm not sure how quotients of semigroups should work
 
11:03 PM
By a congruence
If it was an ideal then I'd probably define $S/\emptyset$ as $S$ with a new element
A new zero
Like they do in topology
 
yeah in topology I would agree, but I don't have enough experience with semigroups to be certain what's better there
 
Well I'm talking about ideals which are subsets
You'd just define it like in topology then by identifying whole thing
But you also have congruences because ideals are not nearly enough
Quotients of semigroups don't have nice descriptions
 
11:55 PM
@copper.hat I've communicated with Ted a couple of times. He is taking a break from the chatroom. You can see that he is still posting on main.
@YourLordJoyBoy In my profile, is a link The Mean Square. Or you can look it up on Wikipedia.
 

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