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8:00 PM
So that a generic high-order term will look like $\frac{\ln n}{\sqrt{x}n^2}$ instead of $\sqrt{x}\ln n$
One has to carefully split the series into two pieces, though, for each of the two domains of convergence
And that's ugh
 
Yeah, I agree
 
There's presumably -something- intelligent that can be said, buuuut
-shrug-
 
presumably
I have to go now
 
later
 
Let me know if you find anything :) And thanks a lot for the help
Bye
 
8:04 PM
mmkay
 
hi all
I'm looking for a way to index subsets, from a finite set
 
Binary?
i.e. have the kth digit be 1 if the kth object is in the subset. @becko
 
@GFauxPas $f(x)=e^x$, $g(x)=sin(x)$ as examples for real values functions
 
@Astyx One thought is to look for which terms contribute the most to that sum, by differentiating w/r/t $n$
The most bare-bones approximation is simply to take only that term.
 
8:20 PM
good afternoon
 
Mojn
Its 9:30 PM here.
 
2:20 pm here
but this is why I do "hi chat" instead of "good X" nowadays
 
3:20 pm here
 
Oh man, I am so stupid...
 
@PhysicsGuy Judging from that greeting "here" would be somewhere in Southern Jutland?
 
8:22 PM
@TobiasKildetoft Germany
 
hi @meow
 
Just reading about algebraic geometry
 
Hartshorne?
 
@PhysicsGuy Potatoe, potahtoe :) Just very much to the south
 
hi @Alessandro
 
8:24 PM
No, it's not an AG bookit has an AG Chapter in it....
It's about String Theory
 
What topics is it discussing?
 
DiffGeo, Topology, Physics
Mikio Nakahara
Very good book, by the way
 
That's not really algebraic geometry, based on that summary. Algebraic topology at most.
 
Chapter 11 begins with a brief review of algebraic geometry, but the most important things are about algebraic topology, yes
 
Fair enough.
 
8:26 PM
@PhysicsGuy what topics of AG does it discuss
 
This is his Geometry, Topology, Physics book to be sure? (I didn't see Differential in the title I'm seeing)
 
I wanted to ask you guys if you've ever heard of "Geometric Relation Algebra" like in this german wiki-article de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometrische_Relationenalgebra.
@meow-mix Chern-Weil-Homomorphisms and Chern-characters. But I know that stuff, I just want to go on to the Index theorem part.
 
if we bound something from above, we bound the reciprocal from below. and vice versa?
 
What ?
 
Characteristic classes would still be algebraic topology, I think
 
8:29 PM
ive heard about synthetic geometry, but never really looked into it
there was a very nice masters thesis i found a while ago
 
if we bound x by above, do we bound $\frac{1}{x}$ by below?
 
If the word 'variety' doesn't show up, it's probably not algebraic geometry.
 
@Semiclassical That's probably untrue.
 
@Semiclassical Well, they might skip them and go to schemes
 
@Semiclassical in my alg geo class we havent said the word variety once
 
8:30 PM
@Semiclassical It doesn't.
 
and we are discussing schemes
 
hi @Balarka
 
Hi @Alessandro.
 
Would that statement be more true if I said schemes instead of varieties?
 
no, alg geo existed before grothendieck :)
 
8:31 PM
Pretty sure neither of those show up in Nakahara, regardless.
 
probably
 
Exactly
The focus is on mathematical physics and things being relevant for it.
 
Characteristic classes also show up in algebraic geometry, I think. Chern-Weil stuff I have definitely heard of in algebraic geometry contexts.
It's probably algebraic geometry in a string theory wrapper.
aka not algebraic geometry ducks
 
Fun fact, though. One of Chern's students was Ted Shifrin, who frequents this chat.
 
I haven't read much in nakahara myself, but what I read was 100% algebraic topology
 
8:32 PM
Also, it tries to connect AlgGeo with Diffgeo, maybe that's the reason why words like "scheme" or "variety" don't appear.
In addition to that, this is a very good paper: arxiv.org/pdf/1605.06385v1.pdf
 
$f:[a,b]\to\mathbb{R}$ is continuous, is it obvious that for every fixed $n$ there exist a unique polynomial $p$ of degree $n$ minimizing $||f-p||_\infty$?
 
oh hey, spectral curves
I tried to learn about those at one point. Failed miserably.
 
@Alessandro That's a cute question.
 
@PhysicsGuy The word 'variety' does show up in there, so I'll agree on that as algebraic geometry
 
My numerical analysis book defines the best approximating polynomial as the one with the property above but neither existence nor uniqueness are discussed
 
8:37 PM
@Semiclassical Really, where ?
 
Wow, @Balarka exists.
 
The space of polynomials of a specific degree is a vector subspace, yeah?
 
First paragraph of the arxiv paper.
 
I think that's just orthogonal projection of $f$ into that or something.
 
"Abelian variety" more specifically
 
8:37 PM
@Semiclassical I'm looking for a way that puts first subsets with less elements.
 
Hi @Ted. Yep, I do.
 
@Semiclassical There it does.
 
a vector subspace of which space, continuous functions? @Balarka
 
Yeah, that's the one I meant.
 
@Alessandro you can think of $\|f-p\|_\infty$ as a function on the coefficients of the polynomials, then you need to think why this function realises its minimal value
 
8:39 PM
If you do binary, then 1000000...000 is a large index, but it index a subset with a single element.
 
To do that you can think that if you make any coefficient larger and larger eventually the function will increase
 
@Alessandro Right. I say "orthogonal projection" intuitively though, since you don't have a inner product. Just a norm.
 
@becko Hmm. If there's an obvious way to identify binary numbers containing $m$ digits, you could have a mapping which converts the bare binary representation to that.
 
What you're doing is you're minimizing the distance from a point on your vector space to a vector subspace.
 
j@Semiclassical is there?
 
8:39 PM
@Alessandro: Offhand, if you had two best approximants for $f$, you'd have a nonzero polynomial best approximating the $0$ polynomial.
 
so you could turn that into an argument that there exists a ball so that for every parameters outside it the function has smaller values inside it
 
I think this should be possible.
 
e.g. have an ordering 000, 100, 010, 001, 110, 101, 011,111
but, uh, I don't actually know :/
 
@Semiclassical yeah, that's what i want
 
@Balarka @Alessandro: Standard analysis exercise is that you have a minimizer for the distance to a closed subset, right?
 
8:40 PM
in an easy computable way, since this is part of a tight loop
 
Ah, yes, that's it.
So there you go.
 
So, for instance, if you had the objects 1,3 in a subset, it'd have the bare binary rep 101
 
You all done with exams, @Balarka?
 
Math's on tuesday.
 
Ah, right, I've actually done that exercise last year @Ted
 
8:41 PM
and then, since that's the sixth element of the ordering, you'd label it as 6.
 
Somehow, Balarka, I can't imagine math will be too strenuous :P
 
which kind of math are you doing in school?
 
But I don't know a good way to identify that.
 
BTW, Balarka, DogAteMy gave a nice proof for something I asked him. Did you see my question about the maximum breadth of a (smooth closed) convex curve (bounding in terms of curvature of the curve)?
 
Curve in R^2 or R^3?
 
8:42 PM
Convex only makes sense in $\Bbb R^2$ :)
 
@TedShifrin On the contrary, we're supposed to work out complicated problems out teacher compiled for over the few years in a 1.5 hours span.
Nope, I didn't see your questions.
 
Oh, what kind of complicated problems?
 
R^2 is nice, though, since then I'd have hopes for a Fourier analysis proof
Though I dunno if that plays well with the convexity requirement
 
Fourier analysis gives a nice proof of the isoperimetric inequality, but how're you going to recognize convexity with that?
Precisely. :P
 
8:44 PM
Nuts.
 
I request hazelnuts.
 
@TedShifrin Dunno. Like, combinatorics, plane geometry. There can be challenging problems with those.
I hope he doesn't ask us to prove the Ramsey theorem.
 
LOL.
 
sounds kinda like math competitions
 
This sounds like a real math course, but, yeah, too much competition-ish for me.
 
8:45 PM
mhm.
 
Reminds me (randomly) that I still have a hydra game running from yesterday.
It's past 67000 heads now :)
 
But at least it's not as boring as past classes.
 
Heyyyy @Bala
 
Speaking of procrastination, howdy @Krijn.
 
How are your exams going
 
8:47 PM
Hi @Krijn
 
@TedShifrin I earned it
 
they're alright
 
I actually really like the proof of Ramsey theorem, I found it very ingenious to prove the existence by induction using smaller Ramsey numbers to bound a bigger one
 
@TedShifrin The last time this fellow compiled an exam, we had a problem which asked to find the conditions for making a box of given dimensions pass through a door of given area.
 
Without calculus?
 
8:49 PM
Ya.
@Alessandro The proof is very cute, yep.
 
Sound like not-fun
 
I learnt it today from Kaj's talks.
 
I know almost no discrete math ... except for the bit of probability I learned teaching it. :)
 
I've read from a nice book I never finished called "ramsey theory on the integers" by Landman and Robertson
 
I know generating functions. Those are fun.
 
8:51 PM
And remember to look at Babai's book, too, @Alessandro :P
 
I can induct. That's it.
 
Though my favorite generating functions thing isn't to do with numbers
 
Generating functions are very broadly applicable.
 
It's that, hey, they're power series, so the generating function is holomorphic at zero. Hence you can extract the coefficients by contour integration.
 
Well, they needn't be convergent power series, so slow down with your horsies.
 
8:52 PM
Yeah, I'm being sloppy.
 
Upto physics they are convergent.
 
Nope, not even convergent germ at 0.
 
I know @Ted! After the exams though
 
LOL, no problem, @Alessandro. :)
 
Hello chat.
 
8:53 PM
Hi @Fargle
 
Hi stranger
 
Eh, fair enough. But when they do have finite radii of convergence, then I can use complex analysis on them
 
Howdy @Ted. Long time no see, @Balarka.
 
And then steepest descent approximation etc etc
 
What goes on?
 
8:55 PM
Been busy. Also planning to stop coming to chat so frequently after I get over business.
 
@Semiclassical And even some analysis of what sort of singularity happens on the edge, which can tell you about subexponential corrections to your estimates
 
Yeah.
 
Whatever that means @Balarka
 
Not sure how successful I will be doing that, but we'll see.
@TedShifrin :|
 
My main ref on this stuff is Flajolet & Sedgwick
 
8:56 PM
Well, if you and Mike stop being here, it'll change the flavor of chat for sure.
 
As far as I recall, a squareroot means you can divide by $n^{3/2}$
 
I noticed. I'm the first +1 :)
Don't know a good answer, alas
 
hi @TedShifrin
 
Alessandro-Fargle-Kaj (and Brody occasionally) seem to have made this into a good place anyway. In any case I'm staying till the hats are gone.
 
8:59 PM
Hi @meow
 
@BalarkaSen I'm not even trying to do that, haha. I think I'm in here literally all the time.
 
Looking at my tabs, I should try to read this Griffiths stuff again
 
The hats which haven't yet arrived, I mean.
 
Well, @Balarka, I'll miss you a little bit.
 
@BalarkaSen I appreciate that! I'm often wrong but I do my best.
 
9:00 PM
hi @Fargle
 
Howdy @meow
 
If only so that I know an example calculation other than the one I've seen in notes
 
@Fargle Nah, you're good.
@TedShifrin So, how's your day?
 
If anything it's been quite the lesson in mathematical hubris.
 
@TedShifrin heyyy
 
9:01 PM
hi Karim
 
glad to see you. I want to check my solution with you :D
 
@TedShifrin the expression $[s\xi+t\eta]$ is the result of a projective transformation on $[s,t] \in \Bbb P^1$, right?
 
some of my solutions
Let G be a real lie group of dimension n. Show that $T(G) = G \times R^n$.
 
for vectors $\zeta, \eta$
 
How I prove this is that I will construct global section for the tangent bundle.
 
9:02 PM
Hmm ... it's parametrizing the line joining $\xi$ and $\eta$, so you can think of it as a projective transformation from $\Bbb P^1$ to that particular $\Bbb P^1$, I guess.
You need $n$ everywhere linearly independent ones, Karim.
 
Yeah global frame
 
Saying "global section" is wrong.
 
@TedShifrin and, the solutions of $(s\xi+t\eta) \cdot \mathbf{x} = 0$ would be the plane whose normal is the projective line $[s,t]$ after that projective transformation is applied (which would cause it to become $[s\xi + t\eta]$, as mentioned above)
 
No, no, it's the plane whose normal is the particular vector (for fixed $s,t$).
I'm confuzled.
 
yes
ok so let me explain
 
9:06 PM
Choose a chart $(U,\psi)$ be a chart based at $e \in G$. We have the map $\theta : U \rightarrow TG$. We will extend this to global section. Consider $\sigma : G \rightarrow TG$ defined by sending $y \mapsto \phi_{g_{*}}(\phi(g^{-1}(x))$ This is well defined and extends $\sigma$
 
Oh, I see what you mean. Once we use the identification with points in the dual projective plane.
Yes.
 
we have these $\xi, \eta$ which are arbitrary, but whose linear combination forms all the normals of the pencil of $P$
 
No charts needed, Karim.
 
oh, ok
 
Pick a frame, push around. Done did do.
 
9:08 PM
@meow: If you finally figure out this projective description of conics, it's really very cool. I never learned about that before I wrote the book.
 
@TedShifrin so as $s,t$ vary, the intersection point of those two lines $L_{[s.t]}$ and $M_{[s,t]}$ draw a conic?
 
(Figuring out what that means is an exercise left to the reader)
 
oh
 
Hi @Brody
 
@BalarkaSen I see
 
9:09 PM
Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Make sure you work out some concrete examples. I actually had a student do a masters thesis on trying to understand this more deeply.
 
that's awesome!
 
@TedShifrin Guilty as charged. But I have 8 a.m. lectures next semester and morning shifts now, so that's gonna have to change!
 
@TedShifrin This story is in RP^2?
 
Greetings, @Brody. Even if you are avoiding me in Atlanta :D
 
Hallo @Balarka
 
9:09 PM
Yes, @Semiclassic.
 
can I hear the story?
 
Anything to say about CP^2?
 
lol @Ted. You know my arachnophobia won't allow me within a 10 mile radius of whatever you are
 
I would think at least 25 is required.
 
@BalarkaSen ok so basically
 
9:10 PM
Oh, @Semiclassic, it's field-independent.
 
we have two points in $\Bbb R\Bbb P^2$, called $P$ and $Q$
 
I just did most of the stuff in my book over $\Bbb R$ because that made it a bit easier for students to visualize (hemisphere, etc.).
 
and their respective pencils $\lambda_P$ and $\lambda_Q$
 
Though, wouldn't a complex conic just be a copy of the Riemann sphere?
 
9:11 PM
You probably need to explain that last line, @meow.
 
pencils?
a pencil in $\Bbb R \Bbb P^2$ is the set of lines through a specific point
 
Nonsingular one, yes, @Semiclassic, just as meow is now explaining how the real one is parametrized by $\Bbb RP^1$.
 
Gotcha.
 
anyways
 
Remember that the Riemann sphere is $\Bbb CP^1$, @Semiclassic.
 
9:12 PM
Go on, @meow.
 
hmm. So we just end up with a copy of CP^1 in CP^2.
makes sense, I think
 
@KajHansen huh?
 
so there exists some $\xi, \eta$ such that every line in $\lambda_P$ has its normal as a linear combination of $\xi, \eta$
and some $\sigma, \upsilon$ such that every line in $\lambda_Q$ has its normal as a linear combination of $\sigma, \upsilon$
(note that these are vectors in $\mathbb{R}^3$)
 
Mhm.
 
Whoa, @meow. You've lost the forest for the trees. Just explain how you get the conic.
 
9:14 PM
idk how to explain it without all this besides
 
Oh, may I say a sentence?
 
What's the claim? What's the conic?
 
is any lie group orientanble @TedShifrin?
 
@Adeek Yep. Follows from the claim you just made tho.
 
"if we apply two possibly different linear transformations to two possibly different lines, then as we vary the lines, their intersections draw a conic in $\mathbb{R}^2$"
but that's less projective-y
 
9:15 PM
Choose any projective transformation mapping $\lambda_P$ to $\lambda_Q$. (These are both $\Bbb P^1$'s.) So $t\in\lambda_P$ maps to $f(t)\in\lambda_Q$. The conic is the locus of the intersection points of those two lines as $t$ varies.
 
why @BalarkaSen ?
 
@Adeek Think.
 
ok
 
So an interesting question is: Can you tell from the projective transformation (i.e., LFT) what kind of conic you're going to get in terms of Euclidean geometry? (Projectively, parabola, ellipse, hyperbola are all the same, of course.)
 
I should learn projective geometry sometime
I never learned it
 
9:17 PM
@meow: Why did you say two linear transformations up there?
 
That sounds like the various kinds of mobius transformations.
 
@meow-mix @Ted Got it. That's interesting.
 
It is suggestive, indeed, @Semiclassic.
 
@TedShifrin because projective transformations are just linear transformations where size doesn't matter :]
 
I still can't follow that sentence, @meow. :)
 
9:18 PM
Reminds me of a cute physics problem, actually, though it's more like projective geometry in the context of special relativity
Suppose you pass by a sphere at near the speed of light. What would you see?
 
@TedShifrin in $\mathbb{RP}^2$, don't you need two projective transformations?
 
Oh, I see, so something special happens in the direction of motion, but the other directions aren't affected? @Semiclassic
 
One might suppose, based on length contraction, that you'd see a sphere squeezed in the direction of motion
 
actually
im stupid, i take that back
 
Nope, @meow, we're doing just a fixed projective transformation from $\lambda_P$ to $\lambda_Q$.
 
9:19 PM
However, the light from the sphere doesn't take the same amount of time to reach the observer even if they're at rest
 
@TedShifrin ok. still, that's really cool.
 
When you account for that, you find that you would -still- see a sphere
The surface would be distorted in a certain way, but the outline would be the same.
 
Huh? @Semiclassic
What does that mean?
 
@TedShifrin also i feel like the "will it be a hyperbola, parabola, or ellipse" question is one of the exercises...
 
9:20 PM
@Semiclassical Holy crap, I need to study relativity at some point.
That's mind-blowing.
 
I don't think I put that in the book, @meow, but maybe. You have plenty of exercises to keep you busy for a week or two.
 
I took my linear algebra final today, @Balarka. After having taken the exam, I think I now get the basic idea with inner products and the notion of length/distance.
 
@TedShifrin even if it's not, ill still ponder it :)
 
Excellent, @Brody!
 
I should send Brody some of my exams :P
 
9:21 PM
And here for a description by John Baez that links to mobius transformations at the end: math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/penrose.html
 
@Semiclassical I find that surprising too.
 
@Semiclassic: Seems like it's a question of perceived shape versus "true" shape.
 
If you just think length-contraction, you'd see a sphere which is a bit flat on the direction of the motion, I suppose?
 
@TedShifrin The professor had "no calculator" and "calculator allowed" problems mixed in the same exam packet, and she wasn't really watching what we were doing. Of course, some students ignored those advisories.
 
anyways, i'm off for a bit. adios :]
 
I never allowed calculators at all, because students could program half (all?) the course into memory.
Bye, @meow.
 
Even scientific calculators?
Though I guess you wouldn't need those.
 
I made up problems so that arithmetic came out very easily ... and repeatedly reminded students that if they were getting yucky arithmetic, they were making mistakes.
 
Point
 
Exams are not the place to test calculator skills, IMHO.
 
9:24 PM
@TedShifrin Yeah, it's pretty silly. I've seen people type facts/formulaes in letters into various places on their device, as tedious and unnecessary as that is.
 
okay, back later
 
Well, typing in various theorems would make it easier not to mess them up, @Brody. :P
Anyhow, if you decide you want my exams from either linear algebra or the multivariable math class, let me know, @Brody.
 
Or typing in solutions to problems.
 
Now that I'm not teaching any more, I don't see why I can't share.
 
Well, I was glad that I didn't have to reduce a 3x5 matrix to its echelon forms by hand with the time crunch.
 
9:26 PM
Well, I wanted students to have basic computational skills and made up the numbers so that it came out very easily. Plus, on some problems, essentially the matrix was already in reduced echelon form.
 
For the most part I do my best to not use calculators for anything that I could work out in a reasonable amount of time by hand.
 
@TedShifrin Sure thing; I appreciate it. You also have Spivak's univariate stuff, no?
 
Yup. You'll be awfully busy :P
 
I did forget my calculator one time for a physics test so I had to approximate $\sin\left(10^{\circ}\right)$ by the Taylor series.
 
Probably $\sin(x^\circ) \approx x\cdot(\pi/180)$ sufficed.
 
9:29 PM
I used a third-order term because I had a lot of time to kill.
 
rolls several eyes
 
You play a very sadistic game of marbles, @Ted.
 
awards @Fargle one measly point
 
I'll take it
 
I kill time doing constructive things, like I did in my language test writing down Lewis Carroll quotes in a footnote on an analysis of Shakespeare's Macbeth.
 
9:31 PM
I am not good at memorizing long quotes.
 
It was just Bruno's interpretation of Macbeth.
 
My class had to memorize a certain length of Shakespeare in high school lit. Can't remember which work though.
 
ctrl+f "macbeth" in it
 
We also watched that interesting film adaptation of R&J with Leo DeCaprio
 
@Balarka: I think I'll stick to Shakespeare.
 
9:34 PM
Did you like it @Balarka?
 
Sylvie and Bruno? Hands down!
@TedShifrin For more constructive examples, I cut off the controversial China and Pakistan-owned territory in my map of India in the geography test the previous year, if you like.
 
Constructive examples of what?
 
Of killing time in exams.
 
Ohhh, right.
 
I don't quite get Sylvie and Bruno. It draws elements from many works? @Balarka
 
9:41 PM
hello please what is equal to $\nabla (\xi^m v)$
 
@Brody I don't remember it drawing incomprehensible references myself. It's a nonsense fairy tale, sort of.
 
@BalarkaSen ...Interesting. I didn't know nonsense literature was a thing.
Gotta go.
 
can someone help me ?
 
Well, that's exactly what Alice in the Wonderland is!
Bye.
@Brody For something really nonsense (different flavor than these), look at Imagination Dead Imagine by Beckett.
I like it a lot, myself.
 
hey @TedShifrin @BalarkaSen if $w_1,...,w_n$ are left invariant one form then we have $w_1 \wedge ... \wedge w_n$ are nowhere vanishing n form.
So the lie group is orientable.
 
9:56 PM
@Adeek It really just followed from the statement about Lie groups being parallelizable...
 
hello everyone
 
what is parrallelizable ?
@BalarkaSen ?
 
Trivial tangent bundle.
 
I don't see why it follows directly from that
This is the definition I have for orientanble
 
If $TM$ is isom to $M \times \Bbb R^n$, you can just pick an orientated basis on $\Bbb R^n$. That gives an oriented basis on $T_pM$ for each $p \in M$.
 
10:02 PM
what do you mean by orientated basis ?
 
Do you know what orientation on a vector space is?
 
no
 
Ok then.
Anyway an n-fold exterior product of the trivial bundle with itself is trivial.
 
yeah why is that ?
 
Just write down a section of the line bundle.
 
10:06 PM
alright
 
I really think it's worthwhile to understand orientability of TM as a bundle means before understanding the forms definition. But as you prefer.
I gotta go
 
Goodbye and have fun @Bala
 
yeah @BalarkaSen
I agree
 
@Null why?
@BalarkaSen Won't you need to dualize that result to fit the definition of orientability?
 
@G.Bergeron I am not sure what you mean. I am just getting a bundle-orientation on $TM$ from a trivialization. A bundle orientation on $TM$ is exactly an orientation on $M$.
 
10:16 PM
@BalarkaSen I meant to get a nowhere zero volume form
 
Oh. Sure. Trivialize $T^*M$ instead.
 
From your bundle orientation
Yeah, I guess I was splitting hair
@BalarkaSen Isn't the parallelizability of Lie groups coming from the action of the group on the algebra and itself which leads to diffeomorphism groups generating the vector fields? By dualizing this you can relate the parallelizability to the invariant 1-form and the non-vanishing n-form
 

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