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7:00 PM
@DavidWheeler Too bad you can't sue
 
@DanielFischer The recurrence relation should describe the time that is required so that an algorithm runs. So isn't $\alpha$ the number of subproblems into which the initial problem is divided? Or am I wrong? If so, then $\aplha$ is an integer, right?
 
@JohnJack You should look whether that limit exists.
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Sue for what? The owners of the site control all rights of usage.
 
@evinda If the recurrence is guaranteed to come from the divide-and-conquer routine, then $\alpha$ is an integer. If it's just an abstract recurrence, who knows?
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Did you get better at maths? LOL
 
7:04 PM
If SE, decided mention of the number "one" was forbidden, they could ban people accordingly. It might not be conducive to the site's health, but they'd be within their rights to do so.
 
@user159870 No, I got worse :(
@DavidWheeler I mean sue the police department
 
@DanielFischer It is given that it describes the time that an algorithm needs to run.

So could it be that $\alpha$ is not an integer? :/
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Why?
 
@user159870 Nature
 
So after getting the diploma won't you know anything??? HAHAHAHAH
 
7:08 PM
@evinda Could be, why not?
 
You can, under certain circumstances. But the police have certain powers as law enforcement officials ordinary citizens do not. To successfully sue, you have to show they exceeded or unlawfully exercised said authority, which is not easy to do.
 
@DanielFischer I thought that it would always be the number of subproblems. Now I saw that the exercise asks for the greatest integer value for which A' is asymptotically faster than A. So is that what I have done right?
 
@ᴇʏᴇs That was just a joke :)))) maybe a cold joke :(((((((
 
@user159870 It's not a joke, it's true :(
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Then you will have to work as something else. Or are you stable in a field?
 
7:17 PM
@evinda Probably. There's a small possibility that "faster" means "strictly faster or equally fast". To be on the safe side, you could add something along the lines of "assuming that 'faster' means 'strictly faster' here" if you're unsure.
 
@user159870 I guess McDonald's
 
Do you go often there? @ᴇʏᴇs
 
@user159870 No I never do
 
@ᴇʏᴇs McDonald's is probably not your optimal choice.
 
I don't like fast food anymore.
 
7:18 PM
@DavidWheeler I don't have any other skills
@JasperLoy I never liked fast food. It's not good for you
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Have you actually gone to an employment office for a skill assessment?
 
@DavidWheeler No
Didn't know such a thing existed
 
You'd be surprised, for example, at the number of cashiers who can operate their registers just fine, but can't subtract 3 from 100.
 
Well, I need a calculator to do those types of arithmetic calculations
 
100-3?
 
7:23 PM
@david @ᴇʏᴇs will you say something encouraging to me in my struggle against mental illness?
 
No, but like $5^4$ mod 6 I can't do very quickly in my head
 
That's equivalent to 3125 mod 6
(or 5 mod 6)
But yeah, I had to work that out on paper
 
@DanielFischer Ok, I will add it. Do will also have to check what happens for $\alpha<16$?
 
I thought it was 20 mod 6
 
$5^4 = (-1)^4 = 1$ mod 6.
 
7:25 PM
That's 5^5, @teadawg1337...
 
Oh...
 
@JasperLoy I'm very negative myself so I don't know many encouraging things
 
I read it as $5^5$, not $5^4$...
 
@ᴇʏᴇs This is what I do: $5^2 = 25 = 1$ mod 6, and 1*1 = 1
 
Is this answer good enough?
0
A: If x and y are both greater than or equal to 1, show that $|\sqrt{x}-\sqrt{y}|$ is less than or equal to $0.5| x-y |$

Chris's sisReplacing $x$ by $x^2$ and $y$ by $y^2$ all reduces to $$2\le|x+y|$$ that is true with $x\ge1$ and $y\ge1$.

 
7:27 PM
@Mike Should I make a digression and peek at Milnor's Topology from a differentiable viewpoint that Hatcher refers to? I am not sure if I have the background.
 
@DanielFischer Oh okay. Then for $g_{y}(1,0)$ would it follow that $g_{y}(1,0) = \lim\limits_{y \rightarrow 0}\frac{g(1,y - g(1,0))}{y} = \lim\limits_{y \rightarrow 0}\frac{y^{2}+1}{y}$?
 
What does he refer to it about? It's something of an entirely different flavor. Assuredly you have the background but if you just want to hear about one thing I can say a word.
 
@evinda Not really. It may be good to mention that a smaller $\alpha$ cannot produce a slower algorithm than a larger one, and hence $\alpha \leqslant 16$ need not be explicitly considered.
 
Hatcher says it introduces degree theory from a more geometric viewpoint. I'd like to hear about it.
 
@DanielFischer The limit therefore does not exist.
 
7:29 PM
@ᴇʏᴇs The whole point of modular arithmetic is to "keep the numbers small"
 
@JohnJack I thought $g(x,y) = 4$ if $x = 0$ or $y = 0$. So it would be $\frac{y^2+1-4}{y}$.
 
Finding the "big values" and reducing mod n is counter-productive.
 
@DanielFischer How do we deduce that a smaller $\alpha$ cannot produce a slower algorithm than a larger one?
 
I told you about it, but maybe you want to read the details. The degree of a smooth map between closed n-manifolds is the (signed) number of points in the image of a "generic" point in the codomain.
 
@DavidWheeler Anyway my point was, I can't do simple arithmetic like mod or something like 14*19 in my head or anything
 
7:30 PM
The sign comes from counting things positively if they're locally orientation-preserving at that point, and negatively if they're locally orientation-reversing at that point.
 
@ᴇʏᴇs I don't do 14*19 in my head either. I use the distributive law-it makes everything a series of "easy calcs"
 
@DanielFischer Yeah typo, result is $\lim\limits_{y \rightarrrow 0}\frac{y^{2}-3}{y}$ which is undefined. So limit does not exist.
 
@DavidWheeler What is the distributive law
 
Milnor is eminently readable, but if you're just expecting a day's side trip, there's probably too much there, @Balarka.
 
@ᴇʏᴇs There's a few tricks I've learned to perform such mental calculations. 14*19=15*20-15-19=300-34=266
 
7:32 PM
14*19 = (10 + 4)(10 + 9) = 100 + (4 + 9)10 + 36 = 100 + 130 + 36 = 230 + 36 = 266.
 
His definition of tangent spaces is absolutely stupid, too. That's my only objection to his otherwise fantastic book.
 
Just press the calculator.
 
@MikeMiller Probably it's just an easy consequence of the local degree formula, but I don't quite see how that interacts with the homology definition, which presumably I told you before.
 
Now someone will scold you for calling him stupid.
 
Also, dunno how homology even interacts for maps from manifolds.
 
7:33 PM
@ᴇʏᴇs $a(b+c) = ab + ac$ and $(a+b)c = ac + bc$.
 
What's the local degree formula? I don't remember.
And I don't know what you mean by how it interacts. They're still continuous maps.
 
All I said was Munkres is a terrible book and they got upset.
 
@ABeautifulMind Why do you feel Munkres is terrible?
 
@DavidWheeler Oh, I see what you did
 
@ABeautifulMind If anyone thinks Milnor's definition is a good definition, they are absolutely, impossibly wrong. This is not even a statement of opinion, like you say yours on Munkres is. It is a statement of fact.
 
7:34 PM
@DanielFischer So it is not possible to write a general partial derivative since the function is not differentiable at each point, one has to check specific points?
 
@BalarkaSen: Actually, I think Milnor only does mod-2 degree anyway.
 
The advantage of the "arabic number system" is it allows us to leverage the distributive law in an easy format
 
@MikeMiller Well, homology groups of arbitrary manifold is obviously not $\Bbb Z$. So I am not sure how degree of maps from manifolds to manifolds can be discussed in terms of homology.
 
you can align "rows" (strings of digits) by "columns" putting digits in the right "place"
 
The $n$th homology of an n-manifold is isomorphic to $\Bbb Z$.
 
7:37 PM
the various rules for "carrying the 1", or "borrowing the 10" come from this column alignment
 
@MikeMiller Right, duh. Local homology + long exact sequence, I guess.
 
@JohnJack Well, we have a closed formula for $g$ on the open set $\{(x,y) : x \neq 0 \land y \neq 0\}$, we get a closed formula for the partial derivatives there, and then need only consider the points where $x = 0$ or $y = 0$ specially.
 
No, @BalarkaSen, it's nontrivial.
I meant to say 'orientable', too.
 
Right, right, we don't know about homology of $M - \{x\}$
 
the nth homology of a closed orientable n-manifold is Z :P
is the correct statement.
 
7:40 PM
geez, now he put "closed" in the mix. you sneaky muffin.
 
sup @MikeMiller
 
of course, it doesn't hold if what you got is a punctured torus, say
 
@DanielFischer kewl thanks.
 
Proof of equivalence for S^n: a 'generic point' $q$ for the map $f$ is one such that, restricted to a suitably small neighborhood $U$ of $q$, $V = f^{-1}(U)$ is a disjoint union of small open sets, each of which maps diffeomorphically onto $U$. (aka, it's a covering map 'near' $q$.) Consider the map $f': S^n /V^c \to S^n$. The domain is a wedge product of a bunch of spheres, and on each sphere, the map is a diffeomorphism. (Homeomorphism, if you like.)
 
@evinda To deduce that, you need to almost solve the recurrence. One can "see" it from knowing how such recurrences generally behave, though.
 
7:41 PM
The degree of the whole map $f$ is just the sum of the degrees of each of these induced maps on the wedge product of spheres; and each of those is +1 or -1 depending on whether it's orientation-preserving or reversing.
 
Hi @Karl
 
morning @Karl
 
feels like morning at least
 
Hi @KarlKronenfeld
 
There are a few details missing in that (why is the degree of the whole map the sum of the degrees? I guess I can explain that if you insist; why does there exist a generic point?), but the above is why it's true.
 
7:43 PM
Ah, you're still around @ᴇʏᴇs
 
@MikeMiller "why is the degree of the whole map the sum of the degrees?" that's the local homology formula
 
Well, I asked you what that was.
You never answered.
I'd forgotten it's true in a better setting than just regular points, that's nice. I've never really used it other than for this.
 
Well, I actually used it while proving that a polynomial of degree $n$ from $\Bbb C \to \Bbb C$ induces a degree $n$ map $S^2 \to S^2$ given by compactifying.
 
Fair enough.
 
look a the preimage, homotope the map around nbhd of the points in the preimage so that it becomes homotopic to rotation, and rotation has degree 1.
 
7:48 PM
Is there such a word as homotope.
 
Yes, Balarka just used it.
 
How do you pronounce "homotopy?"
 
Hoe - moe - toe - pee
 
Flag you for saying pee
 
more like hoe-muh-toe-pee
 
7:49 PM
Okay, because John Horton Conway pronounces it 'Huh - mah - tuh - pee'
 
yeah that's how the british say it
they're wrong
 
lols
 
that's stupid
british english/pronounciation is stupid
 
@ᴇʏᴇs There are two Jonh Conways I think.
 
over here the o's are silent
 
7:50 PM
Really would prefer you stopped calling people stupid in general.
 
I've also heard John Milnor say it 'hoe-muh-tah-pee' I think
 
@DanielFischer Ok.. at which point could I mention that that a smaller $\alpha$ cannot produce a slower algorithm than a larger one, and hence $\alpha \leqslant 16$ need not be explicitly considered ? After having found the largest value for $\alpha$?
 
I get this feeling that even though Balarka is talking, I am not missing anything by having him on ignore.
 
I've always heard "HOE-muh-toe-pee"
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Each time I talk about my problems in the Eng room, some folks there tell me to stop self-pitying. That makes me upset. I just wanted to say some things so that I feel better. I think I won't talk to them anymore.
 
7:52 PM
Do we have a psych.stackexchange
 
@KarlKronenfeld haha
 
It's like I have a headache and I say I have one, and they call that 'self-pitying'.
 
Oh, that's a bit extreme @JasperLoy
 
@ABeautifulMind Some people are uncomfortable with emotional issues. They're like "get over it".
 
@ᴇʏᴇs That was just an example, not what I said.
But you get the idea. I am just describing my problems.
@DavidWheeler Yes, I think they just don't understand me.
 
7:54 PM
i wonder where Ted's gone to.
i guess he is busy with grading again
 
@KarlKronenfeld Why ignore him?
 
Engineers tend to be "pragmatic", they view the world as "physical". Emotional and mental issues are "intangibles".
 
@BalarkaSen Do you know Karl is ignoring you?
 
yes, he ignored me months ago for being an ignorant prat
 
I never really ignore anyone.
 
7:55 PM
Mathematicians are a bit more "artistic", and therefore perhaps more understanding of "real, but non-physical worlds".
 
It makes following chat harder.
I am going to bed in two hours.
 
speaking about ignorant prat, i have decided to study a bit linear algebra and then a bit multivariable calculus this summer, @Mike.
 
Pfft! I can't ever follow chat-usually multiple convo's at once, some of which I do not understand.
 
If you ignore someone, there are missing lines.
 
@BalarkaSen Linear algebra is something I like to describe as "everything you want to be true, is"
 
7:58 PM
I know very little linear algebra to even grasp your vague idea.
 
Strictly speaking, that's not true-but it's so darn orderly.
 
The little mathematics I know bases upon algebra and topology entirely.
 
In linear algebra, you start with an abelian group. Then you let a field act on it.
 
[Thus the decision to strengthen fundamentals]
 
But @Bal the pre-requisite for my topology course next semester says I should have a very strong background in linear algebra (and abstract algebra)
 
7:59 PM
You need no linear algebra for topology whatsoever
Neither abstract algebra, but a little about vector spaces would help you understand top. vector spaces, for example.
 
Well, now I don't know whether to be scared or relieved
 

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