« first day (1697 days earlier)      last day (3318 days later) » 

7:05 PM
@KarimMansour If $K/N$ is normal that means $(aK)(K/N)(aK)^{-1} \subseteq K/N$.
let's look at "elements" of the two sets: $(ak)(k'N)(a^{-1}k'')$ on the LHS, and $k_1N$ on the RHS.
now $k'N$ is a whole set of elements $k'n$, so we have a whole set of elements: $akk'na^{-1}k'': n \in N$
Now we are GIVEN that $N$ is normal, so we can "trade" $na^{-1}$ for $a^{-1}n'$, and similarly, jump the $n'$ across the $k''$
So now we have something like: $akk'a^{-1}k''n_1 = k_1n_2$
@KarimMansour Oh shoot, forget all this.
I was using the wrong cosets, it should have started: $(aN)(K/N)(aN)^{-1} = K/N$
which boils down to: $ankn_1a^{-1}n_2 = k'n_3$, for some various $n$'s and $k$'s
We can use the normality of $N$, to put all the $n$'s on the LHS together, like so:
$aka^{-1}n_4 = k'n_3$
and THAT shows $aka^{-1}N \subseteq k'N$
which is the same as saying $aka^{-1}N \in K/N$
But $K/N = \{gN \in G/N: g \in K\}$
so we conclude that $aka^{-1} \in K$, so $K$ is normal.
 
7:25 PM
back
oh I see
that makes sense
 
However, I prefer to look at it THIS way-
Instead of writing the group homomorphism: $h: G \to G/N$ as $h(g) = gN$
Write it THIS way: $h: G \to h(G)$, with $h(g) = \overline {g}$.
Then we are saying for $N < K$ that $aka^{-1} = k'$ if and only if $\overline{a}\overline{k}\overline{a}^{-1} = \overline{k'}$.
And that should be clear since $h$ is a homomorphism.
 
yeh I agree that is better way of looking at it
 
The whole REASON we look at "normal" subgroups, is that is what we NEED for $h$ to BE a homomorphism.
 
If you want $aHbH = \{ahbh': h,h' \in H\}$ to equal $abH$, it is sufficient that $bh' = h''b$, that is $bH = Hb$.
That it is also necessary, isn't immediately clear-but if $bh \not\in Hb$ (which is what happens for "some" $bh$ if $bH \neq Hb$)
Then $ahbh' \not\in abH$
and so we certainly DON'T have $aHbH = abH$
 
7:35 PM
I see
 
which means the "homomorphism property" fails.
Groups are ALL ABOUT homomorphisms.
A subgroup $H < G$ is just an injective homomorphism $H \to G$
We call this "canonical" injective homomorphism, INCLUSION.
 
yeah that is why when we where having discussion yesterday that we take the arrow to be homomorphism instead of isomorphism
 
A quotient group $G/N$ is just a surjective homomorphism $f: G \to H$ with $N = \text{ker }f$
 
You can put this all together like so:
 
7:40 PM
any quotient group is just a kernel of some homomorphism
I guess its way of organizing the group
that is one way to look at it such that you can get more information for the group from such organization.
 
$\{e\} \stackrel{i}{\to}N\stackrel{i}{\to}G\stackrel{\pi}{\to}G/N\stackrel{0}{\to}\{e\}‌​$
 
?
that doesn't really render
 
a quotient group is the IMAGE of a homomorphism, a normal subgroup is a kernel.
 
I see
yeah that is right
 
In the sequence I have listed, for any pair of homomorphisms that are adjacent, the image of the first is the kernel of the second
 
7:44 PM
yeah
 
This is called an epi-mono split.
 
for such pair then we will have that kernel will be quotient group of the second homomorphism and the image of the first homomorphism
that is awesome
 
in this case, epi= surjective, and mono = injective.
 
I see
 
So, if we want to know when we CAN have a homomorphism $h: G \to G'$, we need to know which normal subgroups are possible.
 
7:47 PM
what if we the groups G and G` are simple?
what if we have that the groups of G and G` are simple ?*
 
For example, armed with JUST THIS INFORMATION, prove there is only ONE homomorphism $\Bbb Z_3 \to \Bbb Z_5$.
Step one: identify the normal subgroups of $\Bbb Z_3$.
Well, this is easy, there's just two: $\{0\}$ and $\Bbb Z_3$ (because $\Bbb Z_3$ is abelian, ALL subgroups are normal, and those are the ONLY TWO subgroups)
 
So any homomorphic image is iso to $\Bbb Z_3/\Bbb Z_3$, or $\Bbb Z_3/\{0\} = \Bbb Z_3$.
Why can't the second possibility occur?
 
1 moment david thinking
oh
because then it will not isomorphic to Z5 right ?
by first isomorphism theorem
since it will not be surjective
 
right, $\Bbb Z_5$ has no subgroup of order 3.
a homomorphism doesn't HAVE to be surjecive, but it IS surjective onto its image.
And $\Bbb Z_5$ has no subgroup isomorphic to $\Bbb Z_3$.
 
7:58 PM
yeah
 
We know already $\Bbb Z_3$ isn't iso to $\Bbb Z_5$, the first has 3 elements, the second has 5.
 
But more importantly, we now know ANY homomorphism into $\Bbb Z_5$ FROM $\Bbb Z_3$, must consist of an image with just a single element: $h(0)$
Now, all that is left, is to show such a homomorphism does indeed exist.
 
So...what is the ONLY homomorphism, explicitly: $\Bbb Z_3 \to \Bbb Z_5$?
 
8:04 PM
we know that it must map the 0 element to the respect 0
so I guess f([a]_3) = [a]_5
 
yes, every homomorphism does that
let's try that: we get $f(0) = 0, f(1) = 1, f(2) = 2$....is this a homomorphism?
Hmm...$0 = f(0) = f(1 + 2)$, but $f(1) + f(2) = 1 + 2 = 3$.
 
oh no
f(1 + 2)
= f(3) = 0
but f(1) + f(2) = [3]_5
 
we established above that $\text{im }f \cong \Bbb Z_3/\Bbb Z_3 \cong \{0\}$.
 
so
I guess
we will have
 
Since $\Bbb Z_3$ is THE WHOLE GROUP, there is only ONE COSET in $\Bbb Z_3/\Bbb Z_3$.
 
8:08 PM
f([x]_3) = [x]_5^x
I am sorry
 
You are trying too hard. The image has cardinality ONE.
What element of $\Bbb Z_5$ must be in the image of ANY homomorphism?
 
oh
so its just
the identity
 
yes, $f$ sends EVERYTHING to $0$.
 
f([x]_3) = [0]_5
 
Can you verify that is a bona-fide homomorphism?
 
8:11 PM
yeh f([x1]_3 + [x2]_3) = f([x1 + x2]_3) = 0 and the other direction is similiar
since 0 + 0 = 0
 
(Side-note-someone posted this to an answer I gave:
If I were a dictator, I would demand that a statue of your likeness be built upon all public grounds in my fine nation. Bless your soul.) Moments like this make it all worthwhile.
 
@DavidWheeler your knowledge in algebra is amazing :D
in the summer we will definitely have many discussions
 
It's not amazing...you will get there, and go beyond.
Take some small and easy-to-play-with groups, and just explore.
Try finding all homomorphisms from $S_3 \to \Bbb Z_4$, for example.
 
One way is to list all the quotient groups for $S_3$, and see if you get any matches for subgroups of $\Bbb Z_4$.
 
8:16 PM
yeah
since we know quotients groups are isomorphic to the image that way that they are just some relabelling of Z_4
 
These groups are "small enough" it's not hard to list all the subgroups.
 
so that way we can figure out all homomorphism
is there a way for big groups
 
Not every homomorphism HAS to be surjective.
 
oh ye they will be particular elements of the homomorphisms but not all of them
 
So what you want to know is if some quotient group is a relabeling of some SUBGROUP of $\Bbb Z_4$.
 
8:18 PM
yeh
 
Well, yes, and no. For FINITE groups, you can just exhaust all the possibilities, but these get pretty big, even for fairly small numbers.
I think there are something like 43 million non-isomorphic groups of order 1024, for example (I might have the number wrong, but it's big).
 
And it turns out that for ANY set, there is a certain kind of group that turns that set into a group in an "unrestricted" way.
 
There are actually 49.487.365.422 such groups.
 
yeah, it's 49 billion. I was a little off.
 
8:23 PM
which group is that david?
 
It's called the "free group generated by $X$", where $X$ is the set.
So there are MORE groups than sets, and there's a LOT of sets.
The typical way you create this group, is you regard the elements of $X$ as "letters" and you make "words" out of them (multiplication is concatenation).
So $a\ast b = ab$.
 
and you do this for every element
oh
 
Then you make another "copy" of $X$, you call $X'$
So now you have words like: $aba'b'b'caac'$ etc.
 
The identity is the "empty word" = $[\ ]$
And you introduce a "rule of reduction": replace any occurence of $aa'$ with the empty word, any occurence of $a'a$ with the empty word, any occurence of $bb'$ with the empty word, etc.
The elements of the free group are "reduced words" in the alphabet $X \cup X'$
 
8:32 PM
I wouldn't say that it turns a set into a group it more like the set becomes a generating set (in a very important way). Although assuming the axiom of choice for every set there is a binary operation that makes that set a group.
 
It turns out that if $X = \{a\}$ (just a single letter), the free group is isomorphic to $\Bbb Z$ under addition.
For an alphabet of two letters, things get very complicated.
 
oh
that is very interesting
 
In fact, it turns out that the free group on two letters has subgroups isomorphic to the free group on $n$ letters, for every $n \in \Bbb Z^{+}$
so, in a sense, the free group on two letters is already "maximally complicated".
 
And has free subgroups on $\aleph_0$ letters
 
I see
 
8:40 PM
It turns out that free groups wind up being important in topology, especially with regard to certain kinds of invariants.
 
hey @DavidWheeler
 
More immediately relevant to you: every (!) group is a quotient group of a free group.
 
Does a straight line from north to south like straight slope have a function?
 
@BenBeri Uh, context?
 
Does this red line has a function
for example the green line here gyazo.com/2e0ad52ee0fdd51780d5a5e0a10cf02d is y = x + 5
 
8:45 PM
what !!!
!!!
In the summer I am planning to read munkrees and algebra so I will cover those notion :D
we will definitely have long discussion in the summer @DavidWheeler
 
Is there any moderator here?
 
Vertical lines in the plane are not functions. Their slope, as defined by $\dfrac{y_2-y_1}{x_2-x_1}$ is undefined. But geomterically, sure, they go straight up.
@AaronMaroja Pedro was just here.
 
i see
 
@PedroTamaroff are you here?
 
@AaronMaroja There is also the Math Mods Office if what you need them for is appropriate for that chat room
 
8:49 PM
@DiscipleofBarney ok
 
9:03 PM
plop
 
@AaronMaroja Yes.
 
@PedroTamaroff Hai pedro. We not buds anymore?
 
What in tar nation is that supposed to mean?
 
Dunno.
 
9:09 PM
1 min ago, by Pedro Tamaroff
user image
Ironically, the answer to the question can be what the question was referring to
 
@PedroTamaroff latex question, you know how \bar puts a bar over things, how do I do an under bar, and how do I do a ~ over
 
@AlecTeal \tilde,\widetilde,\bar,\overline,
 
$\tilde{x}$
Checks out, thanks
@PedroTamaroff sorry for asking, searching for these can be hard but as for "overline" - what did I expect. $\underline{x}$
 
you can also do \hat{x}, $\hat{x}$ and \widehat{x+y}, $\widehat{x+y}$
 
I like hats
 
9:15 PM
@DavidWheeler how can I control... like you know with cup and big-cup with big cup the thing will appear above and below when you use ^ and _ but with just cup it'll be sub and super script
How can I control that with sums, limits, so forth?
 
how can I have the latex notation render in my chrome as math
is there some plugin I could use ?
 
Look at the pinned/stared $\LaTeX$ in chat @KarimMansour
 
@ᴇʏᴇs I like trains (asdf reference)
 
right next to the chat guidelines
 
Hi everyone! Just a quick question about formalisation. Let $A=aI_n$, where $I_n$ denotes the identity matrix of order $n$. Then I need to use a function $f(A)$, but $f$ is given in terms of $a$, not $A$. Is it correct to use the form $f(A)$? For instance, say $f$ is equal to the quantity $2a+1$, is it correct (rigor, or what else) to write $f(A)=2a+1$? Thank you very much!
@PedroTamaroff, what do you think about my question above? And apologies for interrupting you...
:)
 
9:21 PM
@nullgeppetto Sometimes, yes.
 
okay good :D
now it works perfect
thank you @DiscipleofBarney
 
@DavidWheeler, what about in the particular case I wrote above? Thanks :)
 
For example, if $p$ is a polynomial function, and $A$ is an $n \times n$ matrix, $p(A)$ is well-understood.
 
beautiful
 
So, if $f(a) = 2a + 1$ then $f(A) = 2A + I$
 
9:23 PM
@DavidWheeler Are you a ferroequinologist
 
I don't study iron horses.
 
@DavidWheeler, no, what I am asking is whether I can write $f(A)=2a+1$, given that $A=aI_n$.
 
@nullgeppetto no, 2a + 1 is probably a NUMBER, while $2A + I$ is a MATRIX.
 
@DavidWheeler, $f$ is defined on $\Bbb{R}^{n \times n}$ but is defined as real-valued, i.e., $f\colon\Bbb{R}^{n \times n}\to\Bbb{R}$...
 
@nullgeppetto "...$f$ is given in terms of $a$; not $A$".
Why do you think that?
$f$ is given in terms of $A$: send $A={\rm diag}\{a,\ldots\}$ to $2a+1$.
 
9:30 PM
@nullgeppetto Define your terms! What is $a$? what is $A$?
On the one hand, you are claiming that $a \in \Bbb R^{n \times n}$, since $f(a)$ is defined, on the other hand, by claiming that $f(a) = 2a + 1$, you are claiming that $a = \dfrac{f(a) - 1}{2} \in \Bbb R$
 
@PedroTamaroff, @DavidWheeler this is what I am asking actually. So I need to write $f(a)$ instead? I mean, $f$ is given matrices (but a priori multiples of the idednity matrix) and gives numbers in terms of $a$. Is it wrong to write $f(A)$? Or I necessarily need to write $f(a)$ instead?
 
@nullgeppetto It is not wrong. You're sending a diagonal matrix of the form $aI_n$ to $a$.
@DavidWheeler He's not claiming that.
 
@PedroTamaroff, thanks! Yes @DavidWheeler I am not claimin that.
 
Sure, if $A \in \Bbb R^{n \times n}$, you can write $f(A) = 2a + 1$.
 
$\approx$
 
9:35 PM
@PedroTamaroff, exactly, I am sending a diagonal matrix of the form $aI_n$ to $a$.
 
@nullgeppetto At any rate, note there is a bijection $a\to aI_n$.
 
@PedroTamaroff, @DavidWheeler Thanks a lot both of you! Have a good night/day!
 
9:52 PM
Question, just gonna ask
Find the Hessian matrix of the function f(x,y,z) = x^2 - y^2 + 3xy + yz - z^2
<3
 
@buddhababe it's really easy
 
I'm looking at my notes and just can't figure anything out ugh
any hints, alec?
all i know is that there's an H(x) which is a matrix
 
how many 2nd order partials are there?
 
2ND ORDER
 
10:02 PM
2
 
stop guessing, lol, and think about it
 
i'm trying
lol
5
 
just count them, they are all of the form $\dfrac{\partial^2f}{\partial x_i\partial x_j}$
 
i don't understand :(
 
So, let's see, that gives us: $\dfrac{\partial^2f}{\partial x^2},\dfrac{\partial^2f}{\partial x\partial y}, \dfrac{\partial^2f}{\partial x\partial z}$ (three so far....
 
10:08 PM
so do i take the derivative with respect to x first
 
not always
 
oh okay
 
$\dfrac{\partial^2f}{\partial y \partial x}, \dfrac{\partial^2f}{\partial y^2}, \dfrac{\partial^2f}{\partial y\partial z}$ ....there's 3 more.... (six so far)
 
how did you get partial of xz
like there's no xz anywhere
 
If $f(x,y,z) = x^2 - y^2 + 3xy + yz - z^2$, then $\dfrac{\partial^2f}{\partial x\partial z} = \dfrac{\partial}{\partial x}(y - 2z) = 0$
The Hessian is going to make a 3x3 matrix, 9 entries in all. How do you expect to calculate one if you do not know how to partially differentiate?
 
10:19 PM
Wait wouldn't it just be
$[f_x, f_z, f_z]
= [2x+3y, -2y+3z+z, y-2z]$
the Hessian
 
On what basis do you propose replacing the existing definition?
 
What?
Say it to me like i
i'm 15
 
The Hessian is the matrix consisting of all SECOND-ORDER partial derivatives. SECOND ORDER, meaning we differentiate twice. You are somehow insisting it is merely all the first-order partial derivatives. History of mathematics disagrees.
 
Okay. That makes sense.
I'm just trying to figure it out. :(
 
@DavidWheeler, history be damned
 
10:25 PM
$H = \begin{bmatrix}f_{xx}&f_{xy}&f_{xz}\\f_{yx}&f_{yy}&f_{yz}\\f_{zx}&f_{zy}&f_{zz} \end{bmatrix}$
you will have to differentiate each of the three first-order partials you found thrice more, once with respect to each variable.
 
Oh, okay. That helps.
 
Since your function is $\mathcal{C}^2$, you can save some time by noting you'll get a symmetric matrix.
 
Oh.
So would f_xx = 2?
 
So if I just find the other ones and plug the numbers into a matrix is that the Hessian?
 
10:31 PM
They won't always be numbers (in this case they will be because your function is of degree 2 as a polynomial in $\Bbb R[x,y,z]$)
 
Also, thank you for the help.
Oh, okay! That makes sense.
 
In general, though, the Hessian will have FUNCTIONS for entries.
 
Oh, okay.
 
The eigenvalues for $H$ says something about the kind of critical points $f$ has (sometimes)
 
Oh, interesting.
 
10:35 PM
I got points taken off on my quiz because I wrote $\log$ instead of $\ln$. I hate my professor he's so arrogant
 
@DavidWheeler I have this theorem in my book which is the key to understanding the solution to classification problem I saw the proof but it doesn't provide any insight very bad proof. If T is any subgroup of G/N, then T = H/N, where H is a subgroup of G that contains N.
the way they proved it is they let H = {A $\in$ G | Na $\in$ T}
 
Cayley's Theorem?
 
Ok, so first you have to show that $H$ is indeed a subgroup of $G$
 
well that is easy
e is in G since Ne \in T
etc etc
but I don't like the proof it doesn't do it for me
 
Is $H$ closed under multiplication?
 
10:38 PM
is there other way to proof it ?
prove it *
yeh since a $\in$ and b $\in$ H we have Na * Nb = N(ab) \in T
 
@jm324354 There, there.
 
so yeh it will be closed under multiplication and we can just change b to b^-1 and it will be indeed a subgroup
 
Is $H$ closed under inverses?
 
yeh based on the logic above.
I mean the reason I don't like their proof is that it doesn't really provide me with insight
onto why are those the only subgroups but it does indeed prove it
 
Easier proof: let $a,b \in H$, so that $Na,Nb \in T$. Since $T$ is a group, $Na(Nb)^{-1} \in T$. But $Na(Nb)^{-1} = Nab^{-1}$, so $ab^{-1} \in H$. Done.
 
10:41 PM
yeh
 
Hello!!
I am asked to state the two versions of the Knapsack problem and their differences. Could I formulate it as followed??

The Knapsack problem is the following:

There are $n$ items, where the $i^{th}$ item has a benefit of $v_i$ and it has weight $w_i$.

We want to pick some items so that we maximize the total benefit while keeping the total weight of $W$.

The difference between the integer and the fractional version of the Knapsack problem is the following:

At the integer version we want to pick each item either fully or we don't pick it.
 
Now if $\pi: G \to G/N$ is the homomorphism $g \mapsto Ng$
then $T = \pi(H)$
 
Hi Mary!
 
oki yeh
yeah if we consider this homomorphism then yeah it makes sense
yeah that is perfect thank you @DavidWheeler
 
The crux of the matter is there is a 1-1 correspondence between the subgroups $N \leq K \leq G$, and the subgroups $\pi(N) \leq \pi(K) = K/N \leq G/N$
 
10:45 PM
yeah
yeah makes sense.
good
 
What does $\pi$ do? It shrinks the many-element subgroup $N$, down to the single-element coset $N$, and the rest of $G$ shrinks with it.
Suppose $G$ is the integers under addition.
 
I don't understand that part
how does it shrink to single-element coset N
 
and suppose we have the surjective homomorphism: $\pi: \Bbb Z \to \Bbb Z_n$
Where we send $k \mapsto [k]_n$
What gets mapped to $[0]_n$?
 
0
and
all multiples of n
 
anything else?
 
10:49 PM
so we have any kn will be sent to [0]_n
 
So $\text{ker }\pi = n\Bbb Z$.
 
yeh
so it is the cyclic group <n>
 
So, for example, we know that $n\Bbb Z = \{\dots,-4n,-3n,-2n,-n,0,n,2n,3n,4n,\dots\}$
In $\Bbb Z_n$ that ENTIRE SET is replaced by the single element, $[0]_n$.
 
ohh
so each set will be replaced by a single coset
 
Similarly $1 + \text{ker }\pi = \{\dots,-4n+1,-3n+1,-2n+1,-n+1,1,n+1,2n+1,3n+1,4n+1,\dots\}$ is "shrunk" to $[1]_n$
 
10:53 PM
yes
 
Writing the cosets as $k + \text{ker }\pi = k + n\Bbb Z$ is just adding "notational baggage", we can just write $[k]_n$ to convey the same information.
Note that the "$k$" in $[k]_n$ is not UNIQUE, for example, $[k+n]_n = [k]_n$, even though, as INTEGERS, $k \neq k+n$.
So, mod 5, for example, we have $[6] = [1]$.
 
When we map $k \to [k]_5$, all the above says, is $6$ and $1$ map to the same place.
In other words, we are replacing "equality" with "equivalence".
This makes for a "coarser partition" of the integers.
 
yes
or a restriction one could say
 
Instead of putting each integer in an equality class of just itself, we put it in an equivalence class based on "how far from a multiple of $n$".
It's easiest to understand this in terms of the most BASIC partition: evens and odds.
We let $[0]$ stand for ANY EVEN NUMBER, and $[1]$ stand for any odd number.
 
11:02 PM
Well, $[0]$ stands for the set of all even numbers, which is different from any even number.
 
That's two cosets, $2\Bbb Z$ (the evens) and $1 + 2\Bbb Z$ (the odds)
 
Hello @ThomasAndrews !!
I am asked to state the two versions of the Knapsack problem and their differences. Could I formulate it as followed??

The Knapsack problem is the following:

There are $n$ items, where the $i^{th}$ item has a benefit of $v_i$ and it has weight $w_i$.

We want to pick some items so that we maximize the total benefit while keeping the total weight of $W$.

The difference between the integer and the fractional version of the Knapsack problem is the following:

At the integer version we want to pick each item either fully or we don't pick it.
 
I can see now for example going back to our proof the reason we get that it must of that form is that we are trying to make a coarser partition of gN so to do that we must have a group H such that $N \subset H$ correct @DavidWheeler
that I guess is the intuition I think
 
Yes, in fact we have to be able to chop $H$ evenly by $N$ (which is what Lagrange says)
 
11:06 PM
yeh
 
Fraleigh has some good illustrations where he shows the Cayley tables can be partitioned by shaded blocks.
the finest partition is a partition by $\{e\}$, the trivial subgroup-this is just $G$.
 
oh
seems like a good book to read too over the summer
I am using dummit and hunger for
ford *
 
the coarsest partition is by $G$ itself, giving "one big chunk".
 
Hello @abel !! Are you familiar with the Knapsack problem??
 
yeh
and we can keep
shrinking it
into some small chunks
until we get the smallest chunks there is which is the simple groups
yeah that is I guess the reasoning behind the classification problem
 
11:10 PM
Now a good group to work with, to see how a lot of stuff works, is the symmetries of the square.
 
how so @DavidWheeler?
 
This is usually written as $D_4 = \{e,r,r^2,r^3,s,sr,sr^2,sr^3\}$ where $r$ is a rotation of 90 degrees (clockwise, let's say), and $s$ is reflection about the $x$-axis.
 
Make a square out of paper, label the corners on both sides, and convince yourself $rs = sr^3$.
 
11:15 PM
Now we have the following homomorphism: $\phi: D_4 \to \Bbb Z_2 \times \Bbb Z_2$ which sends $r \mapsto (1,0)$ and $s \mapsto (0,1)$
 
(don't take my word for this, prove it REALLY IS a homomorphism)
 
we can prove it using tables I guess and see if they both agree
no wait
no we don't we just compute $\phi(r*s)$ and see if it agress with $\phi(r) + \phi(s)$ which I am taking your word that they agree.
 
Well, you need to show that $\phi(s^ar^ba^{a'}r^{b'}) = \phi(s^ar^b)+\phi(s^{a'}r^{b'})$ for every $a,a',b,b'$
 
yeh which will be given by table
if we construct the table and see if both operations
agree
 
11:20 PM
Although I didn't say so, you may assume $\phi(rs) = \phi(r) + \phi(s)$
But you should check that $\phi(sr^3) = \phi(s) + 3\phi(r)$, and that this agrees with $\phi(rs)$
And also that $4\phi(r) = 0 = 2\phi(s)$
 
So...get cracking-figure out what the subgroups are of each.
 
well yeah the normal subgroups of d4 is {1,r^2} ,{1,r,r^2,r^3} ,{1,r^2,s,sr^2} ,{1,r^2,sr,sr^3} ,
D4
@DavidWheeler are you a grad student?
I just saw your answer here math.stackexchange.com/questions/1202243/… it is super nice !
 
11:48 PM
I am confused due to yesterday, is a mobius transformation ever $\Bbb C \to \Bbb C$ or always $\hat {\Bbb C} \to \hat {\Bbb C}$
The wiki page makes me thing it is always the extended plane, but Mike made it seem like it can be non-extended
Unfortunately I don't have time before my assignment is due to read the 100 pages or so that would get me ready for the chapter we are being tested on[via assignment] (...)
0
Q: Mobius transformation always defined on $f:\Bbb C \to \Bbb C$ or always $f:\hat {\Bbb C} \to \hat {\Bbb C}$

Committing to a challengeIs a mobius transformation ever defined on $f:\Bbb C \to \Bbb C$ or is it always $f:\hat {\Bbb C} \to \hat {\Bbb C}$? The wikipedia page makes me believe it is the latter, but my assignment has the first written(perhaps lazy notation) and someone has led me to believe these will yield different r...

 
@Committingtoachallenge Why didn't you post from you complex analysis account?
 
@DiscipleofBarney I am trying to only use this account these days
I was fearful for sounding stupid if a class mate found out my username and they see my trivial questions
 
@Committingtoachallenge hah okay
 
But I stopped caring
(as much)
If it is too trivial, I will still ask on another account haha
 
11:57 PM
haha
 

« first day (1697 days earlier)      last day (3318 days later) »